Wanting to take a LONG Cross Country - Ft. Worth to San Diego... advice?

[Peter Gibbons]

Received my instrument rating about a year ago, but I haven't managed
to rack up alot of flight hours since then (Im just shy of 200 hours).
I think I've just become bored with flying around the same area all
the time, and I'm really wanting to do something different and
challenging. Plus it would help me to build up the hours I need
before I start the commercial.

So I'm considering making a flight from my home base in Ft. Worth
(KFTW) out to San Diego. I've got a friend that lives out there so it
would be a good excuse to go - plus the fact I think the change of
scenery and the experience itself would definitely be worth it.

I'd be flying a 1978 C-172 that cruises at about 110 KIAS. So I'm
figuring about 10-11 hours travel time each way.

I'm looking to hear from others who have made trips like this and what
advice you might have and/or pitfalls to watch for. Any
recommendations on some cool places to stop or ideas on the best way
to break up the flight segments?

[Matt Emerson]

(Peter Gibbons) writes:

> So I'm considering making a flight from my home base in Ft. Worth
> (KFTW) out to San Diego. I've got a friend that lives out there so it
> would be a good excuse to go - plus the fact I think the change of
> scenery and the experience itself would definitely be worth it.

I flew from Cleveland, OH to Houston, TX in my old Mooney. It was
a lot of fun.

The Mooney goes at about 140 KTAS. Flight time was about 8 hours.
I'm not sure that I'd want to spend too much more time in the airplane
in one day.

Just make reasonable plans, and go on the trip. If you follow I-10,
you probably can't lose. Dealing with changing weather will be your
biggest concern, and since you're instrument rated (I'm not), you
might have more tools at your disposal to deal with it than I do.

My biggest weather problem was scattered afternoon thunderstorms in
Arkansas and east Texas. It seems to me that it's just as well to
be VFR in order to navigate around these.

> I'm looking to hear from others who have made trips like this and what
> advice you might have and/or pitfalls to watch for. Any
> recommendations on some cool places to stop or ideas on the best way
> to break up the flight segments?

I tried to plan legs no longer than 3 and a half hours. That left me
with an hour of fuel in the tanks when I landed. It was also about
the time to use the toilet.

My wife wanted us to have a handheld GPS for the trip, and I'd been
putting off buying one. We got a Garmin 196, and it was nice to have
it along, especially when deviating out of the way of storm clouds.

Anyway, just do it. It's fun.

--
Matt Emerson

[gatt]

"Peter Gibbons" > wrote in message
> Any recommendations on some cool places to stop or ideas on the best way
> to break up the flight segments?

My father-in-law was an Air National Guard UH-1 crewman for many years and
said that the most interesting non-pucker places they flew over (besides the
Nevada Test Site) were in west Texas, where they'd fly low and see all kinds
of old adobe buildings and ruins and Alamo-like structures out in the middle
of nowhere, miles from any roads. Said sometimes even the pilots wanted to
set down and have a look, but of course they couldn't do that.

Take a GPS and mark points of interest, 'cause you might want to find them
again sometime if you're into that sort of thing.

-c

[Peter Duniho]

"Peter Gibbons" > wrote in message
om...
> I'm looking to hear from others who have made trips like this and what
> advice you might have and/or pitfalls to watch for.

I'm sure you'll get good info from people more familiar with that particular
route. My only advice is to make sure you have plenty of buffer built into
your schedule for weather delays, regardless of the time of the year, and to
remember that a 10-hour cross country is just five 2-hour cross countries
put together.

In other words, all of the same stuff you learned during your initial
training is applicable, and sufficient for the most part. You'll just be
exercising more of it over a shorter period of time. If you haven't had any
mountain-specific training, that would be a good idea before you go too,
since there are a few hills on the way from Fort Worth to San Diego. :)

As for particular pitfalls, one big one is to make sure you contact your
anticipated fuel stops, as well as nearby alternates. You want to make sure
fuel is available where you expect it to be, and that if something does go
wrong, you have someplace nearby to go (at one fuel stop, I found that even
though the fuel pump worked, their credit-card approval system didn't, for
example...they didn't find out about the problem until their first credit
customer of the day -- that was me -- showed up). Check on parking
arrangements, ground transportation, and lodging, for overnight stops.

Other than that, it's just like the flying you've already done, only more
fun because you get to see a lot of new places, and meet lots of new people.
:)

Pete

[Jeff]

Last july 4th the wife and I took a trip from Vegas to Louisville Ky.
about 1450 miles each way, it was fun. took us about 9-10 hours of flying
time, I have a turbo arrow and flight plan at 150 KTAS, going into ABQ
for fuel I had a ground speed of around 180 kts on my decent from 12,500
ft, ATC told a 172 that there was a arrow off his left at almost twice his
speed...that felt good to hear :)
It was great to get out of the desert, in the midwest you can see forever
since its so flat and there are little towns and airports all over the
place. Allot different then this area.

on my planning, I planned 2 fuel stops, one at Albuquerque, Nm's double
eagle and one at Joplin, Mo, I chose airports with cross runways just
incase the winds were to become a problem so I could minimize the x-wind.

some tips on flying through this area, next month its going to get really
warm here, you may want to make sure you plan to fly over Nm, Az and Nv
early in the morning.after noon it can get pretty nasty turbulence wise.



Peter Gibbons wrote:

> Received my instrument rating about a year ago, but I haven't managed
> to rack up alot of flight hours since then (Im just shy of 200 hours).
> I think I've just become bored with flying around the same area all
> the time, and I'm really wanting to do something different and
> challenging. Plus it would help me to build up the hours I need
> before I start the commercial.
>
> So I'm considering making a flight from my home base in Ft. Worth
> (KFTW) out to San Diego. I've got a friend that lives out there so it
> would be a good excuse to go - plus the fact I think the change of
> scenery and the experience itself would definitely be worth it.
>
> I'd be flying a 1978 C-172 that cruises at about 110 KIAS. So I'm
> figuring about 10-11 hours travel time each way.
>
> I'm looking to hear from others who have made trips like this and what
> advice you might have and/or pitfalls to watch for. Any
> recommendations on some cool places to stop or ideas on the best way
> to break up the flight segments?

[Mutts]

Stop in Sedona Arizona SEZ if you get a chance. Really pretty.
You can fly over meteor crater just east of Sedona as well.
MYF is very close to everything. If the marine layer rolls in and
you cant get into MYF, RNM and SEE are still pretty close.


On 22 Apr 2004 10:23:41 -0700, (Peter
Gibbons) wrote:

>Received my instrument rating about a year ago, but I haven't managed
>to rack up alot of flight hours since then (Im just shy of 200 hours).
> I think I've just become bored with flying around the same area all
>the time, and I'm really wanting to do something different and
>challenging. Plus it would help me to build up the hours I need
>before I start the commercial.
>
>So I'm considering making a flight from my home base in Ft. Worth
>(KFTW) out to San Diego. I've got a friend that lives out there so it
>would be a good excuse to go - plus the fact I think the change of
>scenery and the experience itself would definitely be worth it.
>
>I'd be flying a 1978 C-172 that cruises at about 110 KIAS. So I'm
>figuring about 10-11 hours travel time each way.
>
>I'm looking to hear from others who have made trips like this and what
>advice you might have and/or pitfalls to watch for. Any
>recommendations on some cool places to stop or ideas on the best way
>to break up the flight segments?

[Ron Parsons]

In article >,
(Peter Gibbons) wrote:

>Received my instrument rating about a year ago, but I haven't managed
>to rack up alot of flight hours since then (Im just shy of 200 hours).
> I think I've just become bored with flying around the same area all
>the time, and I'm really wanting to do something different and
>challenging. Plus it would help me to build up the hours I need
>before I start the commercial.
>
>So I'm considering making a flight from my home base in Ft. Worth
>(KFTW) out to San Diego. I've got a friend that lives out there so it
>would be a good excuse to go - plus the fact I think the change of
>scenery and the experience itself would definitely be worth it.
>
>I'd be flying a 1978 C-172 that cruises at about 110 KIAS. So I'm
>figuring about 10-11 hours travel time each way.
>
>I'm looking to hear from others who have made trips like this and what
>advice you might have and/or pitfalls to watch for. Any
>recommendations on some cool places to stop or ideas on the best way
>to break up the flight segments?

You won't want to push the altitude capability of the 172, so I'd
suggest following the old AAL DC-3 sleeper route from Ft. Worth, to
Midland, El Paso, Douglas, Tucson and into San Diego.

--
Ron

[EDR]

Get a copy of Rinker Buck's, FLIGHT OF PASSAGE.

[Dylan Smith]

In article >,
Peter Gibbons wrote:
> So I'm considering making a flight from my home base in Ft. Worth
> (KFTW) out to San Diego.

First bit of advice:

DO IT!

Sure it'll cost you money. Sure, it'll take time. But it's one hell of a
fun trip.

I flew my 1946 Cessna 140, complete with 85hp engine and cruise prop
from coast to coast, Houston to California, back across via Utah, then
back to Houston to do my 50 hr maintenance, then out east all the way to
Kill Devil Hills, and back up through Ohio. I logged 100 hours or so on
the trip, and spent two months crossing the US.

On a trip this long, flexibility is the key. I often didn't plan my next
leg until right before the flight - I looked to see where the weather
was good, and flew there. I had no particular schedule except cover the
US in two months.

It was friggin' cool, and you can read part of my writeup on my website
(I *still* haven't finished the writeup :/). I must have taken dozens of
rolls of film, and I shot several hours of video (I hooked the camera up
to the intercom, and made a glareshield camera stand by sculpting some
polystyrene to fit the curve of the instrument panel, and Velcroing it
and the camera down).

You don't need to be a high-time pilot to do this kind of trip. Just be
flexible, and thoughtful and you'll have a trip of a lifetime.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[WRE]

Last October I flew a friends Cirrus SR-20 (he was moving to San Diego) from
Charlotte NC (UZA) to San Diego
Started early Saturday morning (5:30am) and landed in San Diego at about
8:30pm (11:30 Charlotte time) same day!
Of course there were a few stops along the way for fuel. First was
Greenville Mississippi, then Hobbs New Mexico, Tucson Arizona and then on to
San Diego. Fortunately I had a pilot friend along (RJ First Officer)!

Things I learned or would have done differently.....in no particular
order...

1. The Moving map GPS and Auto-pilot sure helped
2. Wish I had brought more to eat and drink
3. Should have taken 3 days instead of 1 and enjoyed the scenery or detours
4. Winds aloft are not always what they are reported..especially over long
distances...
5. Even a Cirrus SR-20 takes some time getting to 12,000 ft and you can
tell your there by how the plane feels and acts
6. Being at 12,000 ft and being only 3,000 above the ground is weird!
7. Land at airports to refuel that have something close by. Although the
aiports we landed at had low fuel prices and all....there was nothing around
for miles....
8. Having someone along, even if they are not a pilot, is a big help and
makes the trip more enjoyable.
9. When your in the middle of nowhere...expect the radios to be very
quiet...lol
10. Finally, we averaged 14 miles to the gallon....impressive for an
airplane!

Bob
Charlotte NC
ASEL AMEL Inst. Airplane
CFI CFII MEI AGI IGI

"Peter Gibbons" > wrote in message
om...
> Received my instrument rating about a year ago, but I haven't managed
> to rack up alot of flight hours since then (Im just shy of 200 hours).
> I think I've just become bored with flying around the same area all
> the time, and I'm really wanting to do something different and
> challenging. Plus it would help me to build up the hours I need
> before I start the commercial.
>
> So I'm considering making a flight from my home base in Ft. Worth
> (KFTW) out to San Diego. I've got a friend that lives out there so it
> would be a good excuse to go - plus the fact I think the change of
> scenery and the experience itself would definitely be worth it.
>
> I'd be flying a 1978 C-172 that cruises at about 110 KIAS. So I'm
> figuring about 10-11 hours travel time each way.
>
> I'm looking to hear from others who have made trips like this and what
> advice you might have and/or pitfalls to watch for. Any
> recommendations on some cool places to stop or ideas on the best way
> to break up the flight segments?

[Tina Marie]

In article >, Mutts wrote:
> Stop in Sedona Arizona SEZ if you get a chance. Really pretty.

If you go to Sedona, the airport is on a mesa (I'm not sure that's the right
term). There is a VASI. Use the VASI - the sight picture is very strange,
and it's very easy to get low.

It was hazy when I went, but here's a picture of the airport from
a long final:

http://pictures.tinastoys.org/Vacation/Arizona/Sedona/640x480/P1010124.jpg

More pictures are at:
http://pictures.tinastoys.org/Vacation/Arizona/Sedona/

Tina Marie

[David Brooks]

"Tina Marie" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Mutts wrote:
> > Stop in Sedona Arizona SEZ if you get a chance. Really pretty.
>
> If you go to Sedona, the airport is on a mesa (I'm not sure that's the
right
> term). There is a VASI. Use the VASI - the sight picture is very
strange,
> and it's very easy to get low.

And, for this flatlander, there was a disconcertingly higher groundspeed at
roundout. (4800 feet, and hot).

-- David Brooks

[Tina Marie]

Peter Gibbons wrote:
> So I'm considering making a flight from my home base in Ft. Worth
> (KFTW) out to San Diego. I've got a friend that lives out there so it
> would be a good excuse to go - plus the fact I think the change of
> scenery and the experience itself would definitely be worth it.

Sounds like fun!

> I'd be flying a 1978 C-172 that cruises at about 110 KIAS. So I'm
> figuring about 10-11 hours travel time each way.

With one pilot, you need to plan at least 2 days + a weather day to do
each way. It's a long trip, and while you can probably do it in less time,
the whole point is to have fun, and flying the 11th hour in one day is
never fun.

> I'm looking to hear from others who have made trips like this and what
> advice you might have and/or pitfalls to watch for. Any
> recommendations on some cool places to stop or ideas on the best way
> to break up the flight segments?

I've done lots of long trips, mostly with a second pilot, but at least
2 solo that were more then 2000 miles.

My advice:

1) Don't flight plan the whole thing. Lay the sectionals out on the biggest
floor you have, get a general idea of where you want to stop for fuel,
see if there are an airports you really want to hit, and leave it at that.
Weather, winds, fatigue level, and lots of other stuff need to play into
where you're really going to end up landing, so don't waste too much
time up front planning a route you'll never fly anyway. Every morning,
you can get up and do more detailed planning for the day or for the first
leg.

2) Before you leave, buy every sectional you think you'll need, plus
an extra one on each side. Sometimes they're hard to find enroute, and
when the thunderstorm plops directly in front of you, you don't want to
find out that going around it means flying off your map.

3) Water and food. Carry not only emergency water, but water you plan
to drink in flight - and drink it. If you don't have the greatest
bladder capacity, either plan shorter legs (you're here to have fun,
right? stopping at airports is fun), or carry some device to deal with
the problem. I always carry some sort of fresh fruit (grapes or apples,
never oranges!), some sort of cracker/cookies, and some sort of cheese.
That can turn into a meal if you land somewhere where the FBO is closed.
Most big FBOs have ice machines to refill a cooler (watch W&B - ice
is heavy, and water is sloshy).

4) AFDs are your friend. Buy them for the entire trip, plus one on
each side.

5) I'm assuming you're not IFR rated, but the same thing goes for IFR
charts.

6) Don't rush. Plan to fly a few hours, then spend an hour hanging
out chatting and relaxing at each stop. Add another hour if you're
going to get food. This is not a cross-country race, it's a vacation.
Don't plan to get home the day before The Very Career-Critical Office
Meeting. Plan to be home a day or two early, or plan extra time
enroute.

7) Don't be afraid to ask for weather help. Weather where you're going
won't work like weather where you are. If you don't understand what
the weather is doing, grab a local pilot who looks like he's flown
more then you have, and ask him. He'll probably talk your ear off,
and any advice you're given should be backed up with a call to
Flight Service, but local pilots are an invaluable resource.

8) Even if you don't plan to camp, throw a lightweight tent and sleeping
bag in the back. Sometimes, no matter how well you check the AFD,
the cows got sick and the airport manager had to go home, leaving the
airport locked up, and the pay phone won't work. Having a tent and
a sleeping bag turns this into merely another bit of adventure.

9) If you have a cell phone, carry it. I keep a car charger in the plane,
and keep my phone battery full all the time.

10) Have fun!

I second the routing through El Paso, by the way. T27 is a great little
airport, with lots of character.

In AZ, Eloy (E60) is an interesting stop. It's got a lot of skydivers,
but it's also got a $7.50 a night bunkhouse and a restraunt, bar, laundry
room, and internet cafe.

Sedona (SEZ) is a bit north of your route (I'm not sure exactly where
San Diego CA is), but it's beautiful.

When I went in that direction from Houston, these are the stops I planned:
http://www.tripacerdriver.com/AZTripRt.gif

Enjoy! It'll be a great adventure.

Tina Marie
--
http://www.tripacerdriver.com "...One of the main causes
of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way
to indicate successful termination of their C programs." (Robert Firth)

[vincent p. norris]

Permit me to comment on and disagree respectfully with this generally
excellent advice:

>1) Don't flight plan the whole thing.

I disagree. Plan the whole thing. It's good practice, and if you're
like me, it's fun! I get a lot of pleasure out of sxpreading out the
charts, drawing lines, calculating distances, and making up a flight
plan. Even if I have to change it, it was worthwhile.

Generals always plan battles. As the saying goes, no battle plan
lasts beyond the first shot. Nevertheless, Generals plan battles.

However, I've planned two flights to the West Coast (from central
PA),two to Alaska (two different routes), one all around the Canadian
Maritimes, and one around the perimeter of the Lower Forty-Eight, and
except for being delayed by weather, We flew all those trips exactly
as planned.

>2) Before you leave, buy every sectional you think you'll need, plus
>an extra one on each side.

If you live near a public university, check to see if you can borrow
the charts. Most or all public universities have "Depository
Libraries," meaning the federal government "deposits" with them
public documents to "bring government to the people."

(And BTW, check to see if they'll give you charts when they expire.
Old charts are useful for flight planning, especially if you have two
of each so you don't have to flip-flop them.)

>5) I'm assuming you're not IFR rated, but the same thing goes for IFR
>charts.

We carry all the necessary IFR charts, but do all our "sight-seeing "
trips VFR. Seeing the scenery is half the fun.
>
>6) Don't rush. Plan to fly a few hours, then spend an hour hanging
>out chatting and relaxing at each stop. Add another hour if you're
>going to get food. This is not a cross-country race, it's a vacation.

Good advice! Three hours in the morning and three hours in the
afternoon is a schedule that has worked well for us. Took us eight
days to get to Fairbanks, but we had a lot of fun along the way.

vince norris

[Mike Money]

Have made this flight numerous times departing from PWG (Mc Gregor).

Approximately 1100 nm depending on route.

Follow I-20 west to Abilene, Big Springs, Midland, Pecos.

West of Pecos follow I-10 west to Van Horn, El Paso, Las Cruces, Deming,
Lordsburg, Benson, Tucson, Casa Grande.

From Casa Grande follow I-8 to Yuma and San Diego.

Plenty of VOR's and NDB's entire route.

Recommend a minimum two day trip with an overnight in Deming NM (DMN).
Great FBO, Desert Aviation, and plenty of lodging choices. Las Cruces
NM (LRU), Lordsburg NM (LSB) and Bisbee AZ (P04) are also great FBO's.

Since this is your first X-country, research and plan your flight in
great detail. Remember prevailing winds aloft are "usually" west to
east. You will change time zones twice, and San Diego magnetic
variation is 13E. File a Flight Plan even if VFR.

Obtain training on Mountain Flying with heavy emphasis on Density
Altitude. From El Paso west the mountains get serious. Fly only in the
early morning or late afternoon to prevent departure and approach during
the heat of the day.

Have a great flight.

Mike $$$ (PA28)