Interesting Reading

[EDR]

I enjoy going to the US military safety websites and reading the annual
mishap report review.
They describe the different classes of mishap (severity) and list the
associated costs of each mishap (your tax dollars at work!).
Remember the B-1B that went down off Diego Garcia?
It resulted from an engine shutdown after takeoff; which lead to the
loss of the first generator; followed by the loss of the second
generator; followed by the loss of the backup system.
Get this... the DSO and OSO (guys in back), based on the instruments at
their stations, told the pilots the aircraft was out of control and
punched out. Shortly thereafter, the pilot concluded that the aircraft
was indeed out of control and followed the non-flying personal out of
the aircraft.
The accident board listed, among the reasons for the loss of the
aircraft, "contributing design deficiencies".
BTW, the cost of the loss... $298,000,000.

[BTIZ]

Don't ever call a DSO or OSO, "non-flying" personnel. I worked hard for that
rating. They are "rated wings" as opposed to "non rated aircrew".

And it is obvious that the OSO/DSO knew what was happening when the "flying
crew members" did not. It's not the first time the "Nav" saved a crew, and
all the way across the pond, the Nav is the only guy that really knows where
you are.

The aircraft was built with 3 generators, and room for a fourth that was not
installed to save production $$$. It was determined that it was not "needed"
when the electrically heated engine intake anti-ice system would not be
installed.

Also, the APUs cannot be run in-flight, there is a drive shaft from each APU
(there are two) to a Generator that could have brought a generator back
online. APU power on the ground brings 2 generators online.

Funny that the humanoid stick shakers up front could not fly partial panel
with a whiskey compass and air driven attitude indicator and an altimeter
that is not tied to the Air Data Computers.

BT
(20yrs AF Nav, 15 yrs B-1 IOSO) Retired

"EDR" > wrote in message
...
> I enjoy going to the US military safety websites and reading the annual
> mishap report review.
> They describe the different classes of mishap (severity) and list the
> associated costs of each mishap (your tax dollars at work!).
> Remember the B-1B that went down off Diego Garcia?
> It resulted from an engine shutdown after takeoff; which lead to the
> loss of the first generator; followed by the loss of the second
> generator; followed by the loss of the backup system.
> Get this... the DSO and OSO (guys in back), based on the instruments at
> their stations, told the pilots the aircraft was out of control and
> punched out. Shortly thereafter, the pilot concluded that the aircraft
> was indeed out of control and followed the non-flying personal out of
> the aircraft.
> The accident board listed, among the reasons for the loss of the
> aircraft, "contributing design deficiencies".
> BTW, the cost of the loss... $298,000,000.

[Nathan Young]

Is the B1B a fly-by wire? If so, does it have computer-assist
stability like the F117 or B2? If the controls are hydraulic - what
runs the hydraulic pumps engine or electric?

If any of the above are true, it seems like good reason to bail out
based upon electrical failure.

-Nathan



On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 21:26:42 -0700, "BTIZ" >
wrote:

>Don't ever call a DSO or OSO, "non-flying" personnel. I worked hard for that
>rating. They are "rated wings" as opposed to "non rated aircrew".
>
>And it is obvious that the OSO/DSO knew what was happening when the "flying
>crew members" did not. It's not the first time the "Nav" saved a crew, and
>all the way across the pond, the Nav is the only guy that really knows where
>you are.
>
>The aircraft was built with 3 generators, and room for a fourth that was not
>installed to save production $$$. It was determined that it was not "needed"
>when the electrically heated engine intake anti-ice system would not be
>installed.
>
>Also, the APUs cannot be run in-flight, there is a drive shaft from each APU
>(there are two) to a Generator that could have brought a generator back
>online. APU power on the ground brings 2 generators online.
>
>Funny that the humanoid stick shakers up front could not fly partial panel
>with a whiskey compass and air driven attitude indicator and an altimeter
>that is not tied to the Air Data Computers.
>
>BT
>(20yrs AF Nav, 15 yrs B-1 IOSO) Retired
>
>"EDR" > wrote in message
...
>> I enjoy going to the US military safety websites and reading the annual
>> mishap report review.
>> They describe the different classes of mishap (severity) and list the
>> associated costs of each mishap (your tax dollars at work!).
>> Remember the B-1B that went down off Diego Garcia?
>> It resulted from an engine shutdown after takeoff; which lead to the
>> loss of the first generator; followed by the loss of the second
>> generator; followed by the loss of the backup system.
>> Get this... the DSO and OSO (guys in back), based on the instruments at
>> their stations, told the pilots the aircraft was out of control and
>> punched out. Shortly thereafter, the pilot concluded that the aircraft
>> was indeed out of control and followed the non-flying personal out of
>> the aircraft.
>> The accident board listed, among the reasons for the loss of the
>> aircraft, "contributing design deficiencies".
>> BTW, the cost of the loss... $298,000,000.
>

[EDR]

In article <5W0ic.19808$432.8732@fed1read01>, BTIZ
> wrote:

> Don't ever call a DSO or OSO, "non-flying" personnel. I worked hard for that
> rating. They are "rated wings" as opposed to "non rated aircrew".

My apologies to those rated aircrew for my misuse of the term
non-flying.

[Mark]

EDR > wrote in message >...
> I enjoy going to the US military safety websites and reading the annual
> mishap report review.
> <snip>

Can you post the web site address? Sounds like interesting reading...

Thanks!

[EDR]

In article >, Mark
> wrote:

> Can you post the web site address? Sounds like interesting reading...

Here is the USAF site:

http://afsafety.af.mil/magazine/htdocs/pdf/fsmj_f03.pdf

Here is the USN site:

http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/aviation/default.htm

[BTIZ]

"Nathan Young" > wrote in message
...
> Is the B1B a fly-by wire?
NO

> If so, does it have computer-assist stability like the F117 or B2?
NO

>If the controls are hydraulic - what runs the hydraulic pumps engine or
electric?

Hydro from the engines

> If any of the above are true, it seems like good reason to bail out
> based upon electrical failure.

It's not true, but flying with total electrical failure is tough, and if
they could not get them back online or get the plane on the ground in a
reasonable time. It would be time to give the jet back to the tax payers.

BT

[BTIZ]

accepted

BT

"EDR" > wrote in message
...
> In article <5W0ic.19808$432.8732@fed1read01>, BTIZ
> > wrote:
>
> > Don't ever call a DSO or OSO, "non-flying" personnel. I worked hard for
that
> > rating. They are "rated wings" as opposed to "non rated aircrew".
>
> My apologies to those rated aircrew for my misuse of the term
> non-flying.