Bush still a pilot?

[Chuck]

I was reading a "debate" in another NG about the ANG "yanking" President
Bush's pilots certification.

1) Does the military issue and have control over military certifications,
just as the FAA does civillians? I would assume so, but not sure... Also, if
that is the case, how easy would it be for a military pilot to get FAA
certification?

2) Can they "yank" a cetificate? Does there have to be a violation or failed
medical for this?

3) Do you know if Bush is still certified?

The other NG has me curious now...

Thanks...

Chuck



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 4/15/2004

[Bob Gardner]

There used to be a military written exam, which was pretty much oriented
toward civilian regulations and procedures. The feds figured that the
military pilots did not need to be quizzed on aerodynamics or
navigation...they get much better training than we do. With their military
Form 5 (as I recall) and the test results, they went to the FSDO and got a
civilian license. I doubt that GWB went to that trouble. John Kerry, on the
other hand, has been an active general aviation pilot and owns his own
Cessna twin.

Bob Gardner

"Chuck" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> I was reading a "debate" in another NG about the ANG "yanking" President
> Bush's pilots certification.
>
> 1) Does the military issue and have control over military certifications,
> just as the FAA does civillians? I would assume so, but not sure... Also,
if
> that is the case, how easy would it be for a military pilot to get FAA
> certification?
>
> 2) Can they "yank" a cetificate? Does there have to be a violation or
failed
> medical for this?
>
> 3) Do you know if Bush is still certified?
>
> The other NG has me curious now...
>
> Thanks...
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 4/15/2004
>
>

[Ron Parsons]

In article t>,
"Chuck" > wrote:

>I was reading a "debate" in another NG about the ANG "yanking" President
>Bush's pilots certification.

He was non current due to his medical being overdue. Whoever said
"yanking" was ill-informed or ill intentioned.

>
>1) Does the military issue and have control over military certifications,
>just as the FAA does civillians? I would assume so, but not sure... Also, if
>that is the case, how easy would it be for a military pilot to get FAA
>certification?

On graduation from AF flight school, there was available a short 25
question exam from the FAA in order to received a Commercial Instrument.

--
Ron

[Hilton]

> 3) Do you know if Bush is still certified?

George W. is currently the highest ranking Bush pilot in the US.

Hilton

[Wdtabor]

>With their military
>Form 5 (as I recall) and the test results, they went to the FSDO and got a
>civilian license. I doubt that GWB went to that trouble.

I recall Karl Rove telling a story about flying in a 172 with Bush some time
after the begiining of their work to together on his campaign for governor of
TX, so he was a civilian pilot at one point.

Unless he had is certificate revoked for some infraction, all he would need to
fly now would be a current Class 3 physical and a BFR.

And some way to evade the Secret Service.

Don
--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

[Thomas J. Paladino Jr.]

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
news:3Qvic.25857$GR.3341237@attbi_s01...
> There used to be a military written exam, which was pretty much oriented
> toward civilian regulations and procedures. The feds figured that the
> military pilots did not need to be quizzed on aerodynamics or
> navigation...they get much better training than we do. With their military
> Form 5 (as I recall) and the test results, they went to the FSDO and got a
> civilian license. I doubt that GWB went to that trouble.

What would make you say that? What basis, other than political prejudice, do
you have to rest that on?

FYI, the president must have had a civillian certification at some point
because I have read a couple of stories of people flying in a Cessna with
him.

> John Kerry, on the
> other hand, has been an active general aviation pilot and owns his own
> Cessna twin.

Well isn't he just the most wonderful person in the whole wide world. I
wonder if his wifey bought him that as well?

And the original question had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with John
Kerry, but yet you found it necessary to interject your own political two
cents into an otherwise non political discussion. Good for you.





> "Chuck" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> > I was reading a "debate" in another NG about the ANG "yanking" President
> > Bush's pilots certification.
> >
> > 1) Does the military issue and have control over military
certifications,
> > just as the FAA does civillians? I would assume so, but not sure...
Also,
> if
> > that is the case, how easy would it be for a military pilot to get FAA
> > certification?
> >
> > 2) Can they "yank" a cetificate? Does there have to be a violation or
> failed
> > medical for this?
> >
> > 3) Do you know if Bush is still certified?
> >
> > The other NG has me curious now...
> >
> > Thanks...
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 4/15/2004
> >
> >
>
>

[Bob Gardner]

No political leanings whatsoever. It was my opinion, until I read the
postings about the 172, that once he got out of the Reserves, his business
interests took precedence over continuing in aviation. Insofar as Kerry is
concerned, I was contrasting my (obviously mistaken) thinking about GWB's
pilot status with that of Kerry, nothing more. And I'm pretty sure that
Kerry could afford his own plane, although his wife could surely buy him
several.

Bob Gardner

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> news:3Qvic.25857$GR.3341237@attbi_s01...
> > There used to be a military written exam, which was pretty much oriented
> > toward civilian regulations and procedures. The feds figured that the
> > military pilots did not need to be quizzed on aerodynamics or
> > navigation...they get much better training than we do. With their
military
> > Form 5 (as I recall) and the test results, they went to the FSDO and got
a
> > civilian license. I doubt that GWB went to that trouble.
>
> What would make you say that? What basis, other than political prejudice,
do
> you have to rest that on?
>
> FYI, the president must have had a civillian certification at some point
> because I have read a couple of stories of people flying in a Cessna with
> him.
>
> > John Kerry, on the
> > other hand, has been an active general aviation pilot and owns his own
> > Cessna twin.
>
> Well isn't he just the most wonderful person in the whole wide world. I
> wonder if his wifey bought him that as well?
>
> And the original question had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with
John
> Kerry, but yet you found it necessary to interject your own political two
> cents into an otherwise non political discussion. Good for you.
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Chuck" > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> > > I was reading a "debate" in another NG about the ANG "yanking"
President
> > > Bush's pilots certification.
> > >
> > > 1) Does the military issue and have control over military
> certifications,
> > > just as the FAA does civillians? I would assume so, but not sure...
> Also,
> > if
> > > that is the case, how easy would it be for a military pilot to get FAA
> > > certification?
> > >
> > > 2) Can they "yank" a cetificate? Does there have to be a violation or
> > failed
> > > medical for this?
> > >
> > > 3) Do you know if Bush is still certified?
> > >
> > > The other NG has me curious now...
> > >
> > > Thanks...
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 4/15/2004
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Big John]

Chuck

Let me go over some points that will answer some of your questions.

1. When you graduate from the Air Force Pilot Training Schools
(program) you are given your wings and your records then show that you
are a rated pilot.

2. To fly a military aircraft after being rated pilot you need a
current (annual) physical and check out in type. If you are checked
out in type you also have to maintain currency which is another set of
rules.

3. As has been posted, you can normally take a simple FAA test on
Civilian Rules and receive a Commercial SE and/or ME license depending
on what you trained in (SE/ME or both).

4. If you don't have a current physical and/or currency you are
grounded but your rating is not taken away from you without 'board'
action (rare).

5. Since Bush got a clean bill of health when he left the Guard, there
was no cause to revoke his Military Pilot Rating.

6. If Bush wanted to fly a Military Aircraft now they probably would
let hem fly a dual control bird with an IP with him (like they did
going aboard the carrier where he flew some but did not make the
landing). As CIC he could probably force the issue even though he is
not 'current'. The secret service however might have a problem with
him doing that???? but I'd bet if he wanted to he would/could. Who
would tell him no :o)

I have seen nothing where he got a Commercial based on his Military
Pilot Training. If he did, the same civilian (FAA) rules apply as for
medical and check out for him to fly like any other civilian pilot.

Rain, low clouds and thunderstorms. Good time to hit the bar :o)

Big John

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:56:06 GMT, "Chuck" > wrote:

>I was reading a "debate" in another NG about the ANG "yanking" President
>Bush's pilots certification.
>
>1) Does the military issue and have control over military certifications,
>just as the FAA does civillians? I would assume so, but not sure... Also, if
>that is the case, how easy would it be for a military pilot to get FAA
>certification?
>
>2) Can they "yank" a cetificate? Does there have to be a violation or failed
>medical for this?
>
>3) Do you know if Bush is still certified?
>
>The other NG has me curious now...
>
>Thanks...
>
>Chuck
>
>
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 4/15/2004
>

[Bob Moore]

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote

> FYI, the president must have had a civillian certification at some
> point because I have read a couple of stories of people flying in a
> Cessna with him.

Didn't your mother teach you never to say always, never, or must?
I personally know of a couple of pilots who fly Cessna type aircraft
without the benefit of an FAA Airman Certificate. My father was one
of them back in the 1940s.

Bob Moore

[Cub Driver]

>I was reading a "debate" in another NG about the ANG "yanking" President
>Bush's pilots certification.

Most of this discussion is carried on by folks who don't know what
they're talking about. In this case, "yanking" isn't what happened.
Bush did not take his flight physical in 1972 (presumably because he
wasn't in Texas but in Alabama), so he was grounded.

Interestingly, his last physical in 1973 showed him as "crew member on
flight status," so he presumably was either flying again or eligible
to do so, hence: no longer grounded.

I've looked into this hoo-hah with great diligence, and I have found
nothing to suggest that Bush flew an airplane after May 15, 1972, when
he cleared Ellington. Both his Texas unit and the one to which he
transferred in Alabama were phasing out the F-102A in 1972. He
evidently did not qualify in the replacement aircraft, the F-101B in
the case of Ellington.

http://www.warbirdforum.com/bushf102.htm




all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

[Cub Driver]

On 24 Apr 2004 17:19:53 GMT, (Wdtabor) wrote:

>I recall Karl Rove telling a story about flying in a 172 with Bush some time
>after the begiining of their work to together on his campaign for governor of
>TX, so he was a civilian pilot at one point.

Don, can you narrow down that story? In a newspaper or what?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

[Cub Driver]

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:41:19 GMT, "Thomas J. Paladino Jr."
> wrote:

>Well isn't he just the most wonderful person in the whole wide world. I
>wonder if his wifey bought him that as well?

The Boston Herald has listed the Bush-Kerry vehicles, but doesn't
mention a Cessna twin. Rather: a Gulfstream II. To quote:

At last count, there were eight ``family'' cars and SUVs, including
the 1995 Suburban (15 mpg highway, 12 mpg city), a 1993 Land Rover
Defender (12 mpg highway, 10 mpg city), a 1989 Jeep Cherokee (20 mpg
highway, 16 mpg city), a 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee (20 mpg highway, 15
mpg city), a 2001 Audi Allroad (21 mpg highway, 15 mpg city), a 2001
Chrysler PT Cruiser (25 mpg highway, 20 mpg city), a 1985 Dodge 600
Convertible (26 mpg highway, 23 mpg city), and a 2002 Chrysler 300M
(26 mpg highway, 18 mpg city). Kerry, however, only owns up to the
latter two.

Then there's the 2002 Harley Davidson (his), two powerboats (one
his, one hers), a power inflatable 2001 Novurania (his), and a
Gulfstream II private jet (hers).


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

[H. Adam Stevens]

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:41:19 GMT, "Thomas J. Paladino Jr."
> > wrote:
>
> >Well isn't he just the most wonderful person in the whole wide world. I
> >wonder if his wifey bought him that as well?
>
> The Boston Herald has listed the Bush-Kerry vehicles, but doesn't
> mention a Cessna twin. Rather: a Gulfstream II. To quote:
>
> At last count, there were eight ``family'' cars and SUVs, including
> the 1995 Suburban (15 mpg highway, 12 mpg city), a 1993 Land Rover
> Defender (12 mpg highway, 10 mpg city), a 1989 Jeep Cherokee (20 mpg
> highway, 16 mpg city), a 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee (20 mpg highway, 15
> mpg city), a 2001 Audi Allroad (21 mpg highway, 15 mpg city), a 2001
> Chrysler PT Cruiser (25 mpg highway, 20 mpg city), a 1985 Dodge 600
> Convertible (26 mpg highway, 23 mpg city), and a 2002 Chrysler 300M
> (26 mpg highway, 18 mpg city). Kerry, however, only owns up to the
> latter two.
>
> Then there's the 2002 Harley Davidson (his), two powerboats (one
> his, one hers), a power inflatable 2001 Novurania (his), and a
> Gulfstream II private jet (hers).
>

Isn't a G II an OLD turboprop?
H.

>
> all the best -- Dan Ford
> email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)
>
> The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
> The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
> Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, said:
>Interestingly, his last physical in 1973 showed him as "crew member on
>flight status," so he presumably was either flying again or eligible
>to do so, hence: no longer grounded.

Would a pilot in a single person fighter be listed as "crew member"?
That's wierd.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Their constitution is unwritten, and is mostly based on common law and
practice. In other words, they do something wrong and it then becomes
the norm. -- Laurie Couturier, on the British legal system

[A. Smith]

"H. Adam Stevens" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't a G II an OLD turboprop?
> H.
>
No Aitch, the G I was the turbo prop. The G II is here:
http://www.aircraftencyclopedia.com/g2.htm

allen

[Wdtabor]

>
>>I recall Karl Rove telling a story about flying in a 172 with Bush some time
>>after the begiining of their work to together on his campaign for governor
>of
>>TX, so he was a civilian pilot at one point.
>
>Don, can you narrow down that story? In a newspaper or what?
>
It was an interview during the first campaign with Rove, in which he said he
had been frightened when the plane 'stalled' on takeoff. I don't know if he
meant a departure stall on takeoff or if he was talking about the engine, since
Rove is not a pilot.

It was one of the Sunday morning shows, but I can't remember which one. Rove
was using it as an example of how long the two had been friends and how they
had been through a scary experience together.

Which I could remember more, but that's about it.

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

[Bob Gardner]

There was an article in the Washington Post, apparently written from a
right-seat perspective, describing Kerry's actions as he took off in a
Cessna twin. Can't say when the referenced flight took place, however,
because the article didn't say.

Bob Gardner

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 17:41:19 GMT, "Thomas J. Paladino Jr."
> > wrote:
>
> >Well isn't he just the most wonderful person in the whole wide world. I
> >wonder if his wifey bought him that as well?
>
> The Boston Herald has listed the Bush-Kerry vehicles, but doesn't
> mention a Cessna twin. Rather: a Gulfstream II. To quote:
>
> At last count, there were eight ``family'' cars and SUVs, including
> the 1995 Suburban (15 mpg highway, 12 mpg city), a 1993 Land Rover
> Defender (12 mpg highway, 10 mpg city), a 1989 Jeep Cherokee (20 mpg
> highway, 16 mpg city), a 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee (20 mpg highway, 15
> mpg city), a 2001 Audi Allroad (21 mpg highway, 15 mpg city), a 2001
> Chrysler PT Cruiser (25 mpg highway, 20 mpg city), a 1985 Dodge 600
> Convertible (26 mpg highway, 23 mpg city), and a 2002 Chrysler 300M
> (26 mpg highway, 18 mpg city). Kerry, however, only owns up to the
> latter two.
>
> Then there's the 2002 Harley Davidson (his), two powerboats (one
> his, one hers), a power inflatable 2001 Novurania (his), and a
> Gulfstream II private jet (hers).
>
>
> all the best -- Dan Ford
> email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)
>
> The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
> The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
> Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

[airbourne56]

Goodness gracious. What put the bee in your bonnet? If you drink
coffee, you might thing about drinking less; if you're married, you
might see if you can get your wife to put out more often; if you're a
couch potato, try getting some excercise; if none of the above apply,
there's aways Prozac or a prefrontal lobotomy. Anything to calm those
jangled nerves.


"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." > wrote in message >...
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> news:3Qvic.25857$GR.3341237@attbi_s01...
> > There used to be a military written exam, which was pretty much oriented
> > toward civilian regulations and procedures. The feds figured that the
> > military pilots did not need to be quizzed on aerodynamics or
> > navigation...they get much better training than we do. With their military
> > Form 5 (as I recall) and the test results, they went to the FSDO and got a
> > civilian license. I doubt that GWB went to that trouble.
>
> What would make you say that? What basis, other than political prejudice, do
> you have to rest that on?
>
> FYI, the president must have had a civillian certification at some point
> because I have read a couple of stories of people flying in a Cessna with
> him.
>
> > John Kerry, on the
> > other hand, has been an active general aviation pilot and owns his own
> > Cessna twin.
>
> Well isn't he just the most wonderful person in the whole wide world. I
> wonder if his wifey bought him that as well?
>
> And the original question had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with John
> Kerry, but yet you found it necessary to interject your own political two
> cents into an otherwise non political discussion. Good for you.
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Chuck" > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> > > I was reading a "debate" in another NG about the ANG "yanking" President
> > > Bush's pilots certification.
> > >
> > > 1) Does the military issue and have control over military
> certifications,
> > > just as the FAA does civillians? I would assume so, but not sure...
> Also,
> if
> > > that is the case, how easy would it be for a military pilot to get FAA
> > > certification?
> > >
> > > 2) Can they "yank" a cetificate? Does there have to be a violation or
> failed
> > > medical for this?
> > >
> > > 3) Do you know if Bush is still certified?
> > >
> > > The other NG has me curious now...
> > >
> > > Thanks...
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 4/15/2004
> > >
> > >
> >
> >

[mike regish]

And this was, as always, a fair and balanced opinion.

mike regish

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." > wrote in message
...
>
>
> What would make you say that? What basis, other than political prejudice,
do
> you have to rest that on?
>
> FYI, the president must have had a civillian certification at some point
> because I have read a couple of stories of people flying in a Cessna with
> him.
>
> > John Kerry, on the
> > other hand, has been an active general aviation pilot and owns his own
> > Cessna twin.
>
> Well isn't he just the most wonderful person in the whole wide world. I
> wonder if his wifey bought him that as well?
>
> And the original question had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with
John
> Kerry, but yet you found it necessary to interject your own political two
> cents into an otherwise non political discussion. Good for you.
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Chuck" > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> > > I was reading a "debate" in another NG about the ANG "yanking"
President
> > > Bush's pilots certification.
> > >
> > > 1) Does the military issue and have control over military
> certifications,
> > > just as the FAA does civillians? I would assume so, but not sure...
> Also,
> > if
> > > that is the case, how easy would it be for a military pilot to get FAA
> > > certification?
> > >
> > > 2) Can they "yank" a cetificate? Does there have to be a violation or
> > failed
> > > medical for this?
> > >
> > > 3) Do you know if Bush is still certified?
> > >
> > > The other NG has me curious now...
> > >
> > > Thanks...
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 4/15/2004
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[BTIZ]

"Chuck" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> I was reading a "debate" in another NG about the ANG "yanking" President
> Bush's pilots certification.
>
> 1) Does the military issue and have control over military certifications,
> just as the FAA does civillians? I would assume so, but not sure... Also,
if
> that is the case, how easy would it be for a military pilot to get FAA
> certification?

Military check rides are renewed every 18 months, (when I retired),
A CURRENT military Form 8 and passing the Civil written test would get you a
Civil Commerical pilot cert from the FAA. Of course if all your training was
in T-37s and T-38s you were limited to multi engine centerline thrust until
you showed a different Form8. You could not fly Single Engine Land.

>
> 2) Can they "yank" a cetificate? Does there have to be a violation or
failed
> medical for this?
>
Military "wings" get pulled when you screw up. But you have to meet a flight
review board. To fly military airacraft you have to have a current Form8 on
file for that aircraft.

> 3) Do you know if Bush is still certified?
>
In the military? his Form8 would have long expired.

> The other NG has me curious now...
>
> Thanks...
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 4/15/2004
>
>

[G.R. Patterson III]

Paul Tomblin wrote:
>
> Would a pilot in a single person fighter be listed as "crew member"?
> That's wierd.

No, that's normal. If the required crew is one person, then the pilot is the only
crew member. This is standard terminology in insurance, aviation, military, and
government (at least).

George Patterson
If you don't tell lies, you never have to remember what you said.

[C J Campbell]

"Chuck" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> 3) Do you know if Bush is still certified?
>

Instead of arguing about whether Bush is a pilot, you guys could just check
the FAA database.

George Walker Bush received a Commercial certificate for single engine and
multi-engine land airplane with an instrument rating on Dec 8, 1969. His
medical is not current and he has not informed the FAA of his current
address.

Pilot certificates never expire. However, he would need to file a change of
address, get a current medical certificate, and complete a flight review
before he could act as pilot in command of an aircraft.

There have been some stories of him flying a Cessna 172 and badly
mishandling it. However, the stories are told by people who are not pilots
and who have every incentive in the world for exaggerating things more than
a little bit. Even these stories admit that he was able to take off, fly
around, and land without hurting anyone or damaging anything. :-)

[Cub Driver]

On 24 Apr 2004 23:18:06 GMT, (Wdtabor) wrote:

>Which I could remember more, but that's about it.

Thanks. I'll Google it. Surely one of the anti-Bush sites has picked
up on it, unless this is the incident which has been spun into his
flight with the ghetto kids he was working with about 1972-73.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

[Cub Driver]

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:44:30 +0000 (UTC),
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

>Would a pilot in a single person fighter be listed as "crew member"?

I was told it was Air Force talk for qualified to fly (in any
capacity, perhaps).

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

[Steve Foley]

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me
than a frontal lobotomy.
"airbourne56" > wrote in message
om...
> if none of the above apply,
> there's aways Prozac or a prefrontal lobotomy. Anything to calm those
> jangled nerves.

[Rick Durden]

Don,

I'm not sure I'd trust Rove to tell me the sun came up in the east.
sigh

Probably covering up for the fact that Enron provided its various
corporate jets for Bush to use during his campaigns for governor and
in the presidential primaries.

But, otherwise, Bush shows as having a commercial, multi and
instrument, but he has never shown much interest in general aviation
flying. He does not have a current medical. Kind of strange that for
a guy who was supposedly a gung-ho pilot, he's never shown any
interest in flying Air Force One, yet the other pilot-president,
Eisenhower, did so.

I'm also curious as to why he has never produced his Form-5s to show
whether he did any flying when he was supposedly with the Alabama
Guard or was just AWOL while his countrymen were getting killed or
getting decorated for heroism in Viet Nam.

All the best,
Rick


(Wdtabor) wrote in message >...
> >With their military
> >Form 5 (as I recall) and the test results, they went to the FSDO and got a
> >civilian license. I doubt that GWB went to that trouble.
>
> I recall Karl Rove telling a story about flying in a 172 with Bush some time
> after the begiining of their work to together on his campaign for governor of
> TX, so he was a civilian pilot at one point.
>
> Unless he had is certificate revoked for some infraction, all he would need to
> fly now would be a current Class 3 physical and a BFR.
>
> And some way to evade the Secret Service.
>
> Don

[Cub Driver]

>a guy who was supposedly a gung-ho pilot,

Well, as a pilot (gosh, did I ever think I'd get to write that?!) I
have to agree with you. It's hard to imagine right now. But recall
that just a few days ago we had a post from a guy who had given up
flying--just lost interest in it.

Two things could be going on here:

One, going from an F-102A to a 172 must be a downer.

Two, Bush has demonstrated that he is very focused. I've known people
who work passionately at something for ten years or so, then suddenly
drop it and take up something entirely different. Been there, done
that, now on to something else! He was playing with politics when he
was in the Guard, and he got an early out to go to business school.

And of course there's always the third possibility: something bad
happened. This was Bush's wild-oats era; he was about 25 when he
stopped flying. Any number of possible scenarios come to mind.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

[Jay Honeck]

> One, going from an F-102A to a 172 must be a downer.

Yeah, I've often wondered how weird it must feel for an ex-military pilot to
fly a Spam can. Sorta like transitioning from a Kawasaki racing bike back
to a scooter, I would think?

How 'bout it, Big John (or other military folks)? Is flying a lowly
Skyhawk worth bothering with, after flying at Mach 2 with your hair on fire?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, said:
>One, going from an F-102A to a 172 must be a downer.

I took a cab to the airport in Ottawa once with a cab driver who claimed
to be a former F-14 pilot from the Shah of Iran's air force. Those of you
with long memories will remember when Iran had the third largest air force
in the world, and the cream of it was a huge fleet of F-14 Tomcats.
Anyway, I asked him why he isn't flying an airliner instead of a taxi, and
he scoffed that flying a commuter would be like driving a bus. I kept my
thoughts about the relative merits of bus drivers and taxi drivers to
myself.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Tech Services - We Aim To Please, We Shoot To Kill"
-- H. Wade Minter, ASR

[John Harper]

Someone I work with is a marketing analyst. Previously she
was a left-seat in an A320. In another country, but when
she came to the US she got to the point of being checked
out by United before deciding on a career change.

It takes all kinds.

John

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, said:
> >One, going from an F-102A to a 172 must be a downer.
>
> I took a cab to the airport in Ottawa once with a cab driver who claimed
> to be a former F-14 pilot from the Shah of Iran's air force. Those of you
> with long memories will remember when Iran had the third largest air force
> in the world, and the cream of it was a huge fleet of F-14 Tomcats.
> Anyway, I asked him why he isn't flying an airliner instead of a taxi, and
> he scoffed that flying a commuter would be like driving a bus. I kept my
> thoughts about the relative merits of bus drivers and taxi drivers to
> myself.
>
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> "Tech Services - We Aim To Please, We Shoot To Kill"
> -- H. Wade Minter, ASR

[Jim Baker]

I'm the guy, I guess, that Dan Ford was talking about. I posted a couple of
days ago that the only skill I saw atrophy with age was..interest. I went
from flying B-1Bs to C-172s. I just couldn't get into it. I was spending
$100+ to cruise at 20kts+ slower than B-1 touchdown speed. It's not an
arrogance thing...it just isn't exciting enough for me to spend the money
anymore.

Jim

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:J_sjc.48848$IW1.2861618@attbi_s52...
> > One, going from an F-102A to a 172 must be a downer.
>
> Yeah, I've often wondered how weird it must feel for an ex-military pilot
to
> fly a Spam can. Sorta like transitioning from a Kawasaki racing bike back
> to a scooter, I would think?
>
> How 'bout it, Big John (or other military folks)? Is flying a lowly
> Skyhawk worth bothering with, after flying at Mach 2 with your hair on
fire?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[Jay Honeck]

> I'm the guy, I guess, that Dan Ford was talking about. I posted a couple
of
> days ago that the only skill I saw atrophy with age was..interest. I went
> from flying B-1Bs to C-172s. I just couldn't get into it. I was spending
> $100+ to cruise at 20kts+ slower than B-1 touchdown speed. It's not an
> arrogance thing...it just isn't exciting enough for me to spend the money
> anymore.

You sound like a candidate for a Lancair!

Then you'd at least be in flaps range of a B-1...

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:o_Ajc.54435$aQ6.4027737@attbi_s51...
> > I'm the guy, I guess, that Dan Ford was talking about. I posted a
couple
> of
> > days ago that the only skill I saw atrophy with age was..interest. I
went
> > from flying B-1Bs to C-172s. I just couldn't get into it. I was
spending
> > $100+ to cruise at 20kts+ slower than B-1 touchdown speed. It's not an
> > arrogance thing...it just isn't exciting enough for me to spend the
money
> > anymore.
>
> You sound like a candidate for a Lancair!
>
> Then you'd at least be in flaps range of a B-1...
>

I saw a For Sale ad on the web recently for Jim Lovell's Beech Baron. That
musta been a real comedown after driving a Saturn V.

[Jim Baker]

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:o_Ajc.54435$aQ6.4027737@attbi_s51...
> > > I'm the guy, I guess, that Dan Ford was talking about. I posted a
> couple
> > of
> > > days ago that the only skill I saw atrophy with age was..interest. I
> went
> > > from flying B-1Bs to C-172s. I just couldn't get into it. I was
> spending
> > > $100+ to cruise at 20kts+ slower than B-1 touchdown speed. It's not
an
> > > arrogance thing...it just isn't exciting enough for me to spend the
> money
> > > anymore.
> >
> > You sound like a candidate for a Lancair!
> >
> > Then you'd at least be in flaps range of a B-1...
> >
>
> I saw a For Sale ad on the web recently for Jim Lovell's Beech Baron. That
> musta been a real comedown after driving a Saturn V.

LOL...I'd guess so!

JB

>
>
>

[Bob Noel]

In article >, "Tom Sixkiller"
> wrote:

> I saw a For Sale ad on the web recently for Jim Lovell's Beech Baron.
> That
> musta been a real comedown after driving a Saturn V.

*riding* a Saturn V (not much command over the ascent).

--
Bob Noel

[Big John]

Jay

Jay

Flying is flying. After thousands of hours the edges don't hold a lot
of excitement.

Except for the different engine noise (prop vs jet) it's hard to tell
going balls to the wall (and super sonic) in a J-3 and a supersonic
fighter. When you go through the sound barrier it's just like sitting
in your easy chair at home. Those who have flown the Concorde don't
know they are super sonic until they read the Mach meter on bulkhead
behind the cockpit.

I enjoy flying anything. Flying precision in any type of aircraft is a
challengingly operation and gives me enjoyment.

Nuff said???????

Big John

Any time, any place, any Wx, any type A/C, etc. within aircrafts
limits.
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````````````````````

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:12:09 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>> One, going from an F-102A to a 172 must be a downer.
>
>Yeah, I've often wondered how weird it must feel for an ex-military pilot to
>fly a Spam can. Sorta like transitioning from a Kawasaki racing bike back
>to a scooter, I would think?
>
>How 'bout it, Big John (or other military folks)? Is flying a lowly
>Skyhawk worth bothering with, after flying at Mach 2 with your hair on fire?

[Newps]

"Jim Baker" > wrote in message
...
> I'm the guy, I guess, that Dan Ford was talking about. I posted a couple
of
> days ago that the only skill I saw atrophy with age was..interest. I went
> from flying B-1Bs to C-172s. I just couldn't get into it. I was spending
> $100+ to cruise at 20kts+ slower than B-1 touchdown speed. It's not an
> arrogance thing...it just isn't exciting enough for me to spend the money
> anymore.


Any chance you flew those out of RCA in the mid 90's?

[Jim Baker]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jim Baker" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'm the guy, I guess, that Dan Ford was talking about. I posted a
couple
> of
> > days ago that the only skill I saw atrophy with age was..interest. I
went
> > from flying B-1Bs to C-172s. I just couldn't get into it. I was
spending
> > $100+ to cruise at 20kts+ slower than B-1 touchdown speed. It's not an
> > arrogance thing...it just isn't exciting enough for me to spend the
money
> > anymore.
>
>
> Any chance you flew those out of RCA in the mid 90's?
>
>

No, I was at DYS from '86-'91 and '95-'97.

[Bob Chilcoat]

Roger that. The one time I got to ride Concorde, my thought as we went
supersonic was, "OK, Yeager, what was the big deal about that?"

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney to love America

"Big John" > wrote in message
...

> When you go through the sound barrier it's just like sitting
> in your easy chair at home. Those who have flown the Concorde don't
> know they are super sonic until they read the Mach meter on bulkhead
> behind the cockpit.

[Newps]

Just wondered if you knew about the B-1 the guys here at BIL Tower hung the
for sale sign on on the nose wheel one Saturday morning after the plane
landed and burned up it's brakes. It was an RCA bird.



"Jim Baker" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Newps" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Jim Baker" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I'm the guy, I guess, that Dan Ford was talking about. I posted a
> couple
> > of
> > > days ago that the only skill I saw atrophy with age was..interest. I
> went
> > > from flying B-1Bs to C-172s. I just couldn't get into it. I was
> spending
> > > $100+ to cruise at 20kts+ slower than B-1 touchdown speed. It's not
an
> > > arrogance thing...it just isn't exciting enough for me to spend the
> money
> > > anymore.
> >
> >
> > Any chance you flew those out of RCA in the mid 90's?
> >
> >
>
> No, I was at DYS from '86-'91 and '95-'97.
>
>

[Jim Baker]

No, I never heard of that particular "incident" :-)

How did it happen? Did they land heavy with an IFE?

JB

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
> Just wondered if you knew about the B-1 the guys here at BIL Tower hung
the
> for sale sign on on the nose wheel one Saturday morning after the plane
> landed and burned up it's brakes. It was an RCA bird.
>
>
>
> "Jim Baker" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Newps" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Jim Baker" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > I'm the guy, I guess, that Dan Ford was talking about. I posted a
> > couple
> > > of
> > > > days ago that the only skill I saw atrophy with age was..interest.
I
> > went
> > > > from flying B-1Bs to C-172s. I just couldn't get into it. I was
> > spending
> > > > $100+ to cruise at 20kts+ slower than B-1 touchdown speed. It's not
> an
> > > > arrogance thing...it just isn't exciting enough for me to spend the
> > money
> > > > anymore.
> > >
> > >
> > > Any chance you flew those out of RCA in the mid 90's?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > No, I was at DYS from '86-'91 and '95-'97.
> >
> >
>
>

[Newps]

"Jim Baker" > wrote in message
...
> No, I never heard of that particular "incident" :-)
>
> How did it happen? Did they land heavy with an IFE?

They come here because we are an emergency airfield for them(or whatever you
guys call it). So we get practice approaches and touch and goes. One day
they come in and smoke the brakes. They park it on a taxiway in front of
the terminal and then wait for the mechanics and parts from Ellsworth.
Takes several days. On a Saturday morning with not much going on I say out
loud how funny it would be if there was a for sale sign on the B-1.
Gullible controller A takes the bait. He goes down to the hardware store
and gets a for sale sign. On the way back he stops at a car dealer and gets
one of them "As Is No Warranty" signs you see in every used car. So we
write on that sign that the plane has low miles, new engines, needs brakes.
Gullible controller takes the two signs and some tape and jumps the airport
fence, committing felony #1. Runs out and hops on the nosewheel and tapes
the signs on the strut, another felony no doubt. Runs back literally
seconds before aiport personnel and Air Force pilots, crew and mechanics get
there. They go right to the nose wheel. The Air Force guys bust a gut
laughing. The airport guys are ****ed beyond recognition because they were
responsible for security. We notice the B-1 commander, a major I think, had
a cell phone and was talking to somebody. We called the airport guy on the
radio and asked for the majors cell phone number. After he hung up gullible
controller called him from the tower. At this point we are all watching the
major. He answers the phone and gullible controller simply says "I'm
calling about the airplane you have for sale." He about drops the phone,
laughing. Three of the photographers from our local newspaper are pilots so
we call them and give them the scoop on the story. 5 minutes later there is
a photographer just outside the airport fence with a lens the size of a
trash can standing on the roof of his car taking pictures. The Air Force
guys all have their own cameras and spend the next half hour posing for
pictures in front of our sign. Picture from newspaper photographer is the
front page picture of the next days paper, a Sunday. It's plastered all
over town. Airport management is apoplectic. The Colonel running Ellsworth
is about as mad because he trusted the keystone kops to provide security.
The major calls back the following week to tell us that the sign was hung on
the plane has been framed and mounted in the plane permanently. The airport
is pretty sure who gullible controller is but they can't prove it. We got a
new tower manager last year and they brought up the incident in their
security briefing to him. They are still ****ed.

[Jim Baker]

LOL, good story.

JB

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jim Baker" > wrote in message
> ...
> > No, I never heard of that particular "incident" :-)
> >
> > How did it happen? Did they land heavy with an IFE?
>
> They come here because we are an emergency airfield for them(or whatever
you
> guys call it). So we get practice approaches and touch and goes. One day
> they come in and smoke the brakes. They park it on a taxiway in front of
> the terminal and then wait for the mechanics and parts from Ellsworth.
> Takes several days. On a Saturday morning with not much going on I say
out
> loud how funny it would be if there was a for sale sign on the B-1.
> Gullible controller A takes the bait. He goes down to the hardware store
> and gets a for sale sign. On the way back he stops at a car dealer and
gets
> one of them "As Is No Warranty" signs you see in every used car. So we
> write on that sign that the plane has low miles, new engines, needs
brakes.
> Gullible controller takes the two signs and some tape and jumps the
airport
> fence, committing felony #1. Runs out and hops on the nosewheel and tapes
> the signs on the strut, another felony no doubt. Runs back literally
> seconds before aiport personnel and Air Force pilots, crew and mechanics
get
> there. They go right to the nose wheel. The Air Force guys bust a gut
> laughing. The airport guys are ****ed beyond recognition because they
were
> responsible for security. We notice the B-1 commander, a major I think,
had
> a cell phone and was talking to somebody. We called the airport guy on
the
> radio and asked for the majors cell phone number. After he hung up
gullible
> controller called him from the tower. At this point we are all watching
the
> major. He answers the phone and gullible controller simply says "I'm
> calling about the airplane you have for sale." He about drops the phone,
> laughing. Three of the photographers from our local newspaper are pilots
so
> we call them and give them the scoop on the story. 5 minutes later there
is
> a photographer just outside the airport fence with a lens the size of a
> trash can standing on the roof of his car taking pictures. The Air Force
> guys all have their own cameras and spend the next half hour posing for
> pictures in front of our sign. Picture from newspaper photographer is the
> front page picture of the next days paper, a Sunday. It's plastered all
> over town. Airport management is apoplectic. The Colonel running
Ellsworth
> is about as mad because he trusted the keystone kops to provide security.
> The major calls back the following week to tell us that the sign was hung
on
> the plane has been framed and mounted in the plane permanently. The
airport
> is pretty sure who gullible controller is but they can't prove it. We got
a
> new tower manager last year and they brought up the incident in their
> security briefing to him. They are still ****ed.
>
>

[Jay Honeck]

> They are still ****ed.

Hee hee!

Great story, Newps!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Icarus]

Hi All

You might be interested in some photos of Concorde


http://y2u.co.uk/&002_Images/Concorde%2001.htm

Icarus

Praying everyday for peace in the world

---------------------------------------------------------


"Bob Chilcoat" > wrote in message >...
> Roger that. The one time I got to ride Concorde, my thought as we went
> supersonic was, "OK, Yeager, what was the big deal about that?"
>
> --
> Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)
>
> I don't have to like Bush and Cheney to love America
>
> "Big John" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > When you go through the sound barrier it's just like sitting
> > in your easy chair at home. Those who have flown the Concorde don't
> > know they are super sonic until they read the Mach meter on bulkhead
> > behind the cockpit.