What was that airplane?

[[email protected]]

Two weeks ago I was down in NJ visiting the inlaws. They live in
Cedar Grove, and there is normally a LOT of airplane activity overhead
from Kennedy, Laquardia and Newark, beside Caldwell and a few other
airports nearby.

While I was sitting out on the back deck enjoying the sunshine and
warm temperatures I heard an unusual sounding engine noise. I looked
up and saw a sleek white airplane buzz by with what appeared to be two
turboprops mounted on pylons off the rear of the fuselage. I couldn't
tell for sure but I assumed that the buzzing sound was a result of the
props being at the rear of the pylons. It was moving quickly and I
only got a glimps of it.

Anybody know that that was?

Thanks, Corky Scott

[Ron Snipes]

Might have been a Beechcraft Starship. They are getting rare, beech is
trying to buy them back and cease support.
Ron
> wrote in message
...
> Two weeks ago I was down in NJ visiting the inlaws. They live in
> Cedar Grove, and there is normally a LOT of airplane activity overhead
> from Kennedy, Laquardia and Newark, beside Caldwell and a few other
> airports nearby.
>
> While I was sitting out on the back deck enjoying the sunshine and
> warm temperatures I heard an unusual sounding engine noise. I looked
> up and saw a sleek white airplane buzz by with what appeared to be two
> turboprops mounted on pylons off the rear of the fuselage. I couldn't
> tell for sure but I assumed that the buzzing sound was a result of the
> props being at the rear of the pylons. It was moving quickly and I
> only got a glimps of it.
>
> Anybody know that that was?
>
> Thanks, Corky Scott
>

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, said:
>Two weeks ago I was down in NJ visiting the inlaws. They live in
>Cedar Grove, and there is normally a LOT of airplane activity overhead
>from Kennedy, Laquardia and Newark, beside Caldwell and a few other
>airports nearby.

As I said in my blog entry of November 14th, 2003, whenever anybody asks
"what was that airplane", they just saw a Beech Starship:
http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/000112.html
http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/000117.html
http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/000313.html


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"You are installing Internet Explorer 4.0. Windows NT needs to overwrite
all your system dll's and restart your computer. Note that this
application is NOT part of the operating system. Good luck."

[Ben Jackson]

In article >,
> wrote:
>While I was sitting out on the back deck enjoying the sunshine and
>warm temperatures I heard an unusual sounding engine noise. I looked
>up and saw a sleek white airplane buzz by with what appeared to be two
>turboprops mounted on pylons off the rear of the fuselage.

Piaggio Avanti? Twin pusher turboprop with T-tail and canard. For
some reason Hangar 53 in Hillboro has dozen models of them.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[nooneimportant]

Well it could have been a Piaggio Avanti, another very unique looking plane,
does have a canard, but not a "rear wing" think its more of a "3 lifting
surface" aircraft, wiht twin turboprops in a pusher configuration. Looking
at it from the front it looks like a catfish.... Here's a link::
http://www.piaggioamerica.com/ And i haven't seen a starship in a long time,
hear beech is trying to buy them back and hack them to bits.


"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, said:
> >Two weeks ago I was down in NJ visiting the inlaws. They live in
> >Cedar Grove, and there is normally a LOT of airplane activity overhead
> >from Kennedy, Laquardia and Newark, beside Caldwell and a few other
> >airports nearby.
>
> As I said in my blog entry of November 14th, 2003, whenever anybody asks
> "what was that airplane", they just saw a Beech Starship:
> http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/000112.html
> http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/000117.html
> http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/000313.html
>
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> "You are installing Internet Explorer 4.0. Windows NT needs to overwrite
> all your system dll's and restart your computer. Note that this
> application is NOT part of the operating system. Good luck."

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:07:05 +0000 (UTC),
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

>As I said in my blog entry of November 14th, 2003, whenever anybody asks
>"what was that airplane", they just saw a Beech Starship:

I know what the Starship and the Piaggio Avanti look like and this
definately wasn't either. Remember, I said the engines were mounted
on pylons. They were not mounted on the rear of the wing. They were
hung out off the rear fuselage and the wing was clean and not swept
back.

It's possible that there was a canard, but I really did not see one.
i'm only assuming that the engines had the props facing the rear
because of the strange noise it made, I did not actually see the props
themselves as the airplane was moving fast and there were trees in the
way of my view.

Corky Scott

[Peter Duniho]

> wrote in message
...
> [...] I did not actually see the props
> themselves as the airplane was moving fast and there were trees in the
> way of my view.

Any chance there were no props, and it was some sort of turbofan that just
happened to sound like it had props? Especially given that it didn't even
sound like a normal prop airplane? Modern, high-bypass turbofans make what
I think is a decidedly non-jet sound.

Given that you didn't see the props, what makes you so certain there were
any?

I can't think of any prop twin with engines mounted on pylons attached to
the rear fuselage, but I can think of lots of jets like that. For sure, I'd
think if there was a prop twin with that configuration, it'd make for easy
identification; surely there aren't *two* types like that. :)

Pete

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:31:02 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
> wrote:

>Any chance there were no props, and it was some sort of turbofan that just
>happened to sound like it had props? Especially given that it didn't even
>sound like a normal prop airplane? Modern, high-bypass turbofans make what
>I think is a decidedly non-jet sound.
>
>Given that you didn't see the props, what makes you so certain there were
>any?
>
>I can't think of any prop twin with engines mounted on pylons attached to
>the rear fuselage, but I can think of lots of jets like that. For sure, I'd
>think if there was a prop twin with that configuration, it'd make for easy
>identification; surely there aren't *two* types like that. :)

It made a rasping/buzzing type of sound, along with what sounded like
prop noise to me. I've heard a few rear engined airplanes and it had
that kind of sound. Since I did not actually see the props due to the
tree obstruction and the relatively high speed at which it was
traveling, I'd have to conceed that it's possible it was not a turbo
prop.

But if it wasn't, it was one of the strangest sounding turbines I've
ever heard, or something was seriously wrong with them.

Corky Scott

[Shiver Me Timbers]

> wrote:

> Remember, I said the engines were mounted
> on pylons. They were not mounted on the rear of the wing. They were
> hung out off the rear fuselage and the wing was clean and not swept
> back.


Sounds like a Russian made new to the market amphibian.

Low wing like the lake bucanneer, twin gas engines, pylon mounted.

Was it blue and white.

Is so it was probably the one at sun and fun the past few years.

I saw a couple of shots of it in the aviation binaries group.

I will ask the original photographer to identify themselves and see if
I can't find it for you.

Give it a couple of hours.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Shiver Me Timbers > said:
> > wrote:
>> Remember, I said the engines were mounted
>> on pylons. They were not mounted on the rear of the wing. They were
>> hung out off the rear fuselage and the wing was clean and not swept
>> back.
>
>
>Sounds like a Russian made new to the market amphibian.

This one:
http://xcski.com/gallery/osh_seaplanes/143_be103_2
(hit the >> button a few times for more views)


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Every computer crashes, because every OS sucks"
- Three Dead Trolls In A Baggie, "Every OS Sucks" http://www.deadtroll.com/

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:47:27 +0000 (UTC),
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

>This one:
>http://xcski.com/gallery/osh_seaplanes/143_be103_2
>(hit the >> button a few times for more views)

That's definately the configuration of the airplane I saw. Didn't see
the blue paint but like I said, it was moving fast and somewhat
blocked by the trees.

Corky Scott

[Shiver Me Timbers]

> This one:
> http://xcski.com/gallery/osh_seaplanes/143_be103_2
> (hit the >> button a few times for more views)

Thanks Paul...... That's the one.

Are you the photographer, cause I just asked in the binaries aviation
group if the photographer (or someone else) could post a few shots.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Shiver Me Timbers > said:
>> This one:
>> http://xcski.com/gallery/osh_seaplanes/143_be103_2
>> (hit the >> button a few times for more views)
>
>Thanks Paul...... That's the one.
>
>Are you the photographer, cause I just asked in the binaries aviation
>group if the photographer (or someone else) could post a few shots.

Yes, those are my Oshkosh 2003 pictures on that gallery. I borrowed a
Kodak DCSPro14N 14 megapixel camera from work for that trip. Nice camera.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Why is "abbreviation" such a long word?

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, said:
>On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:47:27 +0000 (UTC),
>(Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>>This one:
>>http://xcski.com/gallery/osh_seaplanes/143_be103_2
>>(hit the >> button a few times for more views)
>
>That's definately the configuration of the airplane I saw. Didn't see
>the blue paint but like I said, it was moving fast and somewhat
>blocked by the trees.

There was another one of these at Oshkosh that was plain white (or maybe
bare metal, I don't remember and I never got a good picture of it). The
guy showing it was trying to become a full-time importer of these
aircraft.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
It was pity that stayed his hand. "It's a pity I'm out of bullets", he said.
-- RwP

[Dan Truesdell]

There was a very bizarre looking amphib (I think from Russia) that I saw
at OSH last year. It was a twin with the engines mounted on pylons in
the back. Any chance this was such a plane?

wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:07:05 +0000 (UTC),
> (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>
>
>>As I said in my blog entry of November 14th, 2003, whenever anybody asks
>>"what was that airplane", they just saw a Beech Starship:
>
>
> I know what the Starship and the Piaggio Avanti look like and this
> definately wasn't either. Remember, I said the engines were mounted
> on pylons. They were not mounted on the rear of the wing. They were
> hung out off the rear fuselage and the wing was clean and not swept
> back.
>
> It's possible that there was a canard, but I really did not see one.
> i'm only assuming that the engines had the props facing the rear
> because of the strange noise it made, I did not actually see the props
> themselves as the airplane was moving fast and there were trees in the
> way of my view.
>
> Corky Scott


--
Remove "2PLANES" to reply.

[gatt]

"Ron Snipes" > wrote in message
news:z1Ujc.3500$pJ1.3246@lakeread02...
> Might have been a Beechcraft Starship. They are getting rare, beech is
> trying to buy them back and cease support.

Hey, Ron. Any idea why they're doing this? Something wrong with them are
are they just not lucrative enough for the company to support?

-c
PP/ASEL

[G.R. Patterson III]

gatt wrote:
>
> Hey, Ron. Any idea why they're doing this? Something wrong with them are
> are they just not lucrative enough for the company to support?

The latter. There aren't enough of them out there to justify support.

George Patterson
If you don't tell lies, you never have to remember what you said.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Paul Tomblin wrote:
>
> This one:

I saw two of those at Sky Manor last summer, so there are definitely some in this
area.

George Patterson
If you don't tell lies, you never have to remember what you said.

[Teacherjh]

>>
> Hey, Ron. Any idea why they're doing this? Something wrong with them are
> are they just not lucrative enough for the company to support?

The latter. There aren't enough of them out there to justify support.
<<

I have read (but have not confirmed) that the reason there aren't enough of
them is that their performance is not all that hot, especially for the price.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[G.R. Patterson III]

Teacherjh wrote:
>
> I have read (but have not confirmed) that the reason there aren't enough of
> them is that their performance is not all that hot, especially for the price.

Pretty much correct. The original design took full advantage of composite
construction and probably would have been a great airplane. The FAA made Beech add a
lot of reinforcement with materials the FAA understands (eg. steel, aluminbum, etc.),
and the added weight pretty much made it uncompetitive.

As they say in the miltary, the first guys to hit the beach get mowed down.

George Patterson
If you don't tell lies, you never have to remember what you said.

[Big John]

Corky

Could it have been a Lockheed C-140, Jet Star? They were basically
straight winged birds and had four engines mounted on struts off the
rear sides of the fuselage.

With the four engines the bird had a strange sound. Probably not in
perfect sync?

Bird was expensive to operate so never caught on outside the VIP
flight at Andrews.

Was bigger than a Gulf Stream , Lear or Saber Liner. 41,000 lbs

Million plus a copy in early 60's

Would guess there may be a few still flying?

Big John


On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:58:42 -0400,
wrote:

>Two weeks ago I was down in NJ visiting the inlaws. They live in
>Cedar Grove, and there is normally a LOT of airplane activity overhead
>from Kennedy, Laquardia and Newark, beside Caldwell and a few other
>airports nearby.
>
>While I was sitting out on the back deck enjoying the sunshine and
>warm temperatures I heard an unusual sounding engine noise. I looked
>up and saw a sleek white airplane buzz by with what appeared to be two
>turboprops mounted on pylons off the rear of the fuselage. I couldn't
>tell for sure but I assumed that the buzzing sound was a result of the
>props being at the rear of the pylons. It was moving quickly and I
>only got a glimps of it.
>
>Anybody know that that was?
>
>Thanks, Corky Scott

[Bob Chilcoat]

The importer of those is based at Sky Manor airport very near to me. There
is a good diner on the field, and the last time I stopped in there for a
$100 burger two of them were parked there. Interesting plane, but I gather
the useful load is a bit low. Looks like it's built like a tank, though.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney to love America

> wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:47:27 +0000 (UTC),
> (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
>
> >This one:
> >http://xcski.com/gallery/osh_seaplanes/143_be103_2
> >(hit the >> button a few times for more views)
>
> That's definately the configuration of the airplane I saw. Didn't see
> the blue paint but like I said, it was moving fast and somewhat
> blocked by the trees.
>
> Corky Scott

[Richard Russell]

On Sat, 1 May 2004 21:41:42 -0400, "Bob Chilcoat"
> wrote:

>The importer of those is based at Sky Manor airport very near to me. There
>is a good diner on the field, and the last time I stopped in there for a
>$100 burger two of them were parked there. Interesting plane, but I gather
>the useful load is a bit low. Looks like it's built like a tank, though.


I saw a couple of those at Sky Manor last month. They have a used one
for sale there and I went to look at the sale sign in the
window...$650,000. Wife said no.

Rich Russell