Polish Gliding Commission bans modern ships from there Standard Class Nationals!

[[email protected]]

If you want to go to Poland to take part in there Standard Class Nationals make sure not to bring/rent modern ship like D2, LS 8 and ASW 28. Polish Gliding Commission decided to remove these ships from Polish Nationals starting 2015. For those of you that know how to read Polish go here; http://forum.szybowce.com/informacje-o-pracach-komisji-szybowcowej-ap/definicja-klasy-standard/. Just so you know it.
Marek

[Henry Retting]

They also say that they are going to race at night. And something about 'spicy mustard'.
Oh well...I love my D2....fmm

[Sean F (F2)]

Interesting. The decision does not make alot of sense to me unless they have some other class that is suited to this performance range. That said, it sounds like there actually may be another class that is now intended for very high performance Standard Class gliders (see below). There is also alot of class warfare, rich man/poor man crap in there thread discussion as well.

I think the Standard Class must be far more popular in Poland than in the US. In fact, I would bet that this situation is very similar to the US Club Class wanting to be separated from the high performance gliders of the old style "sports class."

Re: Class Definition Standard
« Reply # 1 on: February 03, 2014, 9:52 »

There are those who believe that eliminating class differences lies in taking away rich. Others that in giving to the poor I think that should not be disposed of 18m class just because ASG has a dominant position. But I think that you should create conditions to that established in Poland, another strong class of parent in the glider. Regards, Mark, If you wrote it so why are you taking the opportunity to take part in MP Standard at WAS 28, LS 8/Discusie 2? Does it have to be this recipe for the creation of another class of parent in her glider. As far as I know, these are the cheapest competition-gliders (not speaking here of class club). MC


On Thursday, February 6, 2014 3:43:40 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> If you want to go to Poland to take part in there Standard Class Nationals make sure not to bring/rent modern ship like D2, LS 8 and ASW 28. Polish Gliding Commission decided to remove these ships from Polish Nationals starting 2015. For those of you that know how to read Polish go here; http://forum.szybowce.com/informacje-o-pracach-komisji-szybowcowej-ap/definicja-klasy-standard/. Just so you know it.
>
> Marek

[[email protected]]

On Friday, February 7, 2014 10:37:37 AM UTC-5, Sean F (F2) wrote:
> Interesting. The decision does not make alot of sense to me unless they have some other class that is suited to this performance range. That said, it sounds like there actually may be another class that is now intended for very high performance Standard Class gliders (see below). There is also alot of class warfare, rich man/poor man crap in there thread discussion as well. I think the Standard Class must be far more popular in Poland than in the US. In fact, I would bet that this situation is very similar to the US Club Class wanting to be separated from the high performance gliders of the old style "sports class." Re: Class Definition Standard « Reply # 1 on: February 03, 2014, 9:52 » There are those who believe that eliminating class differences lies in taking away rich. Others that in giving to the poor I think that should not be disposed of 18m class just because ASG has a dominant position. But I think that you should create conditions to that established in Poland, another strong class of parent in the glider. Regards, Mark, If you wrote it so why are you taking the opportunity to take part in MP Standard at WAS 28, LS 8/Discusie 2? Does it have to be this recipe for the creation of another class of parent in her glider. As far as I know, these are the cheapest competition-gliders (not speaking here of class club). MC On Thursday, February 6, 2014 3:43:40 AM UTC-5, wrote: > If you want to go to Poland to take part in there Standard Class Nationals make sure not to bring/rent modern ship like D2, LS 8 and ASW 28. Polish Gliding Commission decided to remove these ships from Polish Nationals starting 2015. For those of you that know how to read Polish go here; http://forum.szybowce.com/informacje-o-pracach-komisji-szybowcowej-ap/definicja-klasy-standard/. Just so you know it. > > Marek

My speculation, and that is all it is, would be that they don't have very many "modern" Std class gliders, but more older gliders. To try to get more pilots that have those gliders, they move the "modern" gliders out.
In the US we chose to have very limited handicapping to try to attract the pilots with the older last generation gliders. This has had a limited affect on participation, but has drawn a few more. Just another way to try to get more pilots.
I'd be interested in why the PGC is taking this action.
FWIW
UH

[Wojciech Scigala]

Użytkownik napisał:
> If you want to go to Poland to take part in there Standard Class
> Nationals make sure not to bring/rent modern ship like D2, LS 8 and
> ASW 28. Polish Gliding Commission decided to remove these ships from
> Polish Nationals starting 2015. For those of you that know how to
> read Polish go here;
> http://forum.szybowce.com/informacje-o-pracach-komisji-szybowcowej-ap/definicja-klasy-standard/.
> Just so you know it.
It is true. Top-end standard gliders are now invited to new "flapped"
class championships.


--
WojtuÅ›

[[email protected]]

On Friday, February 7, 2014 8:39:59 AM UTC-8, Wojciech Scigala wrote:

> It is true. Top-end standard gliders are now invited to new "flapped"
> class championships.
>
> WojtuÅ›

Interesting - I guess the logic is a small group of newer technology standard class gliders makes it less attractive for the larger pool of earlier generation glider owners to compete.

Of course without a handicap the current generation standard class gliders might find it tough to compete with flapped gliders (unless the flapped gliders are mostly/all older generation too).

I'd be interested to hear how it works out in terms of participation for both groups and what kinds of handicaps, if any, get applied in either case.

The US as analogous issues, though not exactly the same.

9B

[Mike the Strike]

Maybe they should just call it the Jantar Class?

Mike

[[email protected]]

There may be some truth in that last statement. I was able to find the results from several standard class events in Poland from 2009 to 2013 on soaringspot.com. In general, they have been able to get 40 to 50 entries for a standard class event but a couple of recent ones had entries reduced to half that number. Almost all entries are Jantar Standard 3. In the 2009 nationals there was one LS8 and it didn't win. In 2010 there were two LS8's and two Discus with an LS8 winning. In 2011, there were two LS8's once again and one of them won. In the 2013 Polish Junior Nationals, there was one LS8 and two Discus and they finished in that order followed by 18 Jantars and a couple of other Polish gliders.

So, I guess with only a few of the higher performance standard class sailplanes showing up and these now always winning, they were concerned about two things: the experienced inability to win without one and the effect this may have on entries going forward. They may have judged it better to lose a couple of modern standard class entries to encourage many more in, what else, Jantars.

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, February 8, 2014 3:20:12 AM UTC+1, wrote:
> There may be some truth in that last statement. I was able to find the results from several standard class events in Poland from 2009 to 2013 on soaringspot.com. In general, they have been able to get 40 to 50 entries for a standard class event but a couple of recent ones had entries reduced to half that number. Almost all entries are Jantar Standard 3. In the 2009 nationals there was one LS8 and it didn't win. In 2010 there were two LS8's and two Discus with an LS8 winning. In 2011, there were two LS8's once again and one of them won. In the 2013 Polish Junior Nationals, there was one LS8 and two Discus and they finished in that order followed by 18 Jantars and a couple of other Polish gliders.
>
>
>
> So, I guess with only a few of the higher performance standard class sailplanes showing up and these now always winning, they were concerned about two things: the experienced inability to win without one and the effect this may have on entries going forward. They may have judged it better to lose a couple of modern standard class entries to encourage many more in, what else, Jantars.


The last Standard Class Nationals were held in 2011 and there were 10 modern ships flying and I think they picked-up three more since then. http://zawodyszybowcowe.info.pl/wyniki.php?wynid=390 In 2013 they had 15m Nationals instead; basically a duplicate of a Standard Class. http://zawodyszybowcowe.info.pl/wyniki.php?wynid=587
What’s interesting is that they use handicapping in all competition classis and if you would like to compare with ours go here http://komisja.szybowce.pl/artykuly/wspolczynniki-wyrownawcze-szybowcow-2013 and then click on this Współczynniki 2013 do Załącznika nr¬ 1a+1b.xls

[Dan Marotta]

....And we have the 1-26 Champiouships in the USA. I see no problem with a
single class competition.


> wrote in message
...
On Saturday, February 8, 2014 3:20:12 AM UTC+1,
wrote:
> There may be some truth in that last statement. I was able to find the
> results from several standard class events in Poland from 2009 to 2013 on
> soaringspot.com. In general, they have been able to get 40 to 50 entries
> for a standard class event but a couple of recent ones had entries reduced
> to half that number. Almost all entries are Jantar Standard 3. In the 2009
> nationals there was one LS8 and it didn't win. In 2010 there were two
> LS8's and two Discus with an LS8 winning. In 2011, there were two LS8's
> once again and one of them won. In the 2013 Polish Junior Nationals, there
> was one LS8 and two Discus and they finished in that order followed by 18
> Jantars and a couple of other Polish gliders.
>
>
>
> So, I guess with only a few of the higher performance standard class
> sailplanes showing up and these now always winning, they were concerned
> about two things: the experienced inability to win without one and the
> effect this may have on entries going forward. They may have judged it
> better to lose a couple of modern standard class entries to encourage many
> more in, what else, Jantars.


The last Standard Class Nationals were held in 2011 and there were 10 modern
ships flying and I think they picked-up three more since then.
http://zawodyszybowcowe.info.pl/wyniki.php?wynid=390 In 2013 they had 15m
Nationals instead; basically a duplicate of a Standard Class.
http://zawodyszybowcowe.info.pl/wyniki.php?wynid=587
What’s interesting is that they use handicapping in all competition classis
and if you would like to compare with ours go here
http://komisja.szybowce.pl/artykuly/wspolczynniki-wyrownawcze-szybowcow-2013
and then click on this Współczynniki 2013 do Załącznika nr¬ 1a+1b.xls