WINGS, BFR, and Log entries

[Andrew Gideon]

What's necessary in a logbook to indicate that a WINGS level completion is
serving in place of a BFR? AC 61-91H merely mentions in (6) that the
completion serves in place of a BFR, and in (9) mentions "...logbooks or
other proficincy records...". At various WINGS-fulfilling events, a form
is handed out indicating completion of the ground portion which contains
space for entries of the air portions. I'd my instructor complete this
form. This is what I sent in to the FAA.

They sent a pin and a nice certificate. But what should be in my logbook
indicating that I'm current?

- Andrew

[Jeff Saylor]

Andrew Gideon wrote:

> What's necessary in a logbook to indicate that a WINGS level completion is
> serving in place of a BFR? AC 61-91H merely mentions in (6) that the
> completion serves in place of a BFR, and in (9) mentions "...logbooks or
> other proficincy records...". At various WINGS-fulfilling events, a form
> is handed out indicating completion of the ground portion which contains
> space for entries of the air portions. I'd my instructor complete this
> form. This is what I sent in to the FAA.
>
> They sent a pin and a nice certificate. But what should be in my logbook
> indicating that I'm current?

Refer to Advisory Circular 61-91H. Section 9 a.
You can view the entire AC from the FAA's web site
from this link http://tinyurl.com/3x97q

9. AWARDING OF THE PILOT PROFICIENCY WINGS AND CERTIFICATE

a. Endorsement Verification. As pilots complete each step of training outlined
in paragraphs 7 or 8, whichever is appropriate, their logbooks or other
proficiency records must be endorsed by the persons who gave the instruction.
That endorsement should read substantively as follows:

Mr./Ms._________________, holder of pilot
certificate no.___________, has satisfactorily
completed the training requirements outlined in
Advisory Circular 61-9111, paragraphs 7a, b, c, d,
e, f, or g (state which)
/s/ (date) M. Smith, 385652472CFI or
/s/ (date) M. Smith, USUA Ultralight Instructor (or
other approved instructor)123454

Note: In the case of ultralights, no certificate number
is required.

[Andrew Gideon]

Jeff Saylor wrote:

>
> Refer to Advisory Circular 61-91H. Section 9 a.
> You can view the entire AC from the FAA's web site
> from this link http://tinyurl.com/3x97q
>
> 9. AWARDING OF THE PILOT PROFICIENCY WINGS AND CERTIFICATE
>
> a. Endorsement Verification. As pilots complete each step of training
> outlined in paragraphs 7 or 8, whichever is appropriate, their logbooks or
> other proficiency records must be endorsed by the persons who gave the
> instruction. That endorsement should read substantively as follows:
>
> Mr./Ms._________________, holder of pilot
> certificate no.___________, has satisfactorily
> completed the training requirements outlined in
> Advisory Circular 61-9111, paragraphs 7a, b, c, d,
> e, f, or g (state which)
> /s/ (date) M. Smith, 385652472CFI or
> /s/ (date) M. Smith, USUA Ultralight Instructor (or
> other approved instructor)123454
>
> Note: In the case of ultralights, no certificate number
> is required.

Yes. I referred to this in my original note. However, I'm not quite clear
what this means. This appears less like a note of completion of the entire
phase, and more like the form on which completion of each component of the
phase was indicated.

That is, I've this separate form which I picked up at an educational
program. This had a signature from the speaker already applied. It also
had three lines for completion for the air instruction.

Over time, my instructor completed those lines and then I sent a copy of
that form into the FAA.

Is having that form sufficient, or should the above be explicitly written
into my log? If I need something in the log, then do I need the above for
each component, or just when all components of a phase are completed?

Or something else?

Thanks...

Andrew

[zatatime]

On Sun, 09 May 2004 19:08:07 -0400, Andrew Gideon
> wrote:

>Jeff Saylor wrote:
>
>>
>> Refer to Advisory Circular 61-91H. Section 9 a.
>> You can view the entire AC from the FAA's web site
>> from this link http://tinyurl.com/3x97q
>>
>> 9. AWARDING OF THE PILOT PROFICIENCY WINGS AND CERTIFICATE
>>
>> a. Endorsement Verification. As pilots complete each step of training
>> outlined in paragraphs 7 or 8, whichever is appropriate, their logbooks or
>> other proficiency records must be endorsed by the persons who gave the
>> instruction. That endorsement should read substantively as follows:
>>
>> Mr./Ms._________________, holder of pilot
>> certificate no.___________, has satisfactorily
>> completed the training requirements outlined in
>> Advisory Circular 61-9111, paragraphs 7a, b, c, d,
>> e, f, or g (state which)
>> /s/ (date) M. Smith, 385652472CFI or
>> /s/ (date) M. Smith, USUA Ultralight Instructor (or
>> other approved instructor)123454
>>
>> Note: In the case of ultralights, no certificate number
>> is required.
>
>Yes. I referred to this in my original note. However, I'm not quite clear
>what this means. This appears less like a note of completion of the entire
>phase, and more like the form on which completion of each component of the
>phase was indicated.
>
>That is, I've this separate form which I picked up at an educational
>program. This had a signature from the speaker already applied. It also
>had three lines for completion for the air instruction.
>
>Over time, my instructor completed those lines and then I sent a copy of
>that form into the FAA.
>
>Is having that form sufficient, or should the above be explicitly written
>into my log? If I need something in the log, then do I need the above for
>each component, or just when all components of a phase are completed?
>
>Or something else?
>
>Thanks...
>
> Andrew


You need some sort of "reliable record" for currency in your
posession, so either staple a photocopy of what you send the FAA in
your logbook (a pain, and potentially not legal since its a photocopy)
or have the instructor make an equvilant endorsement. You only need a
record of the completed phase, not each component.

HTH.
z

[Jeff Saylor]

Andrew Gideon wrote:

> Jeff Saylor wrote:
>
> >
> > Refer to Advisory Circular 61-91H. Section 9 a.
> > You can view the entire AC from the FAA's web site
> > from this link http://tinyurl.com/3x97q
> >
> > 9. AWARDING OF THE PILOT PROFICIENCY WINGS AND CERTIFICATE
> >
> > a. Endorsement Verification. As pilots complete each step of training
> > outlined in paragraphs 7 or 8, whichever is appropriate, their logbooks or
> > other proficiency records must be endorsed by the persons who gave the
> > instruction. That endorsement should read substantively as follows:
> >
> > Mr./Ms._________________, holder of pilot
> > certificate no.___________, has satisfactorily
> > completed the training requirements outlined in
> > Advisory Circular 61-9111, paragraphs 7a, b, c, d,
> > e, f, or g (state which)
> > /s/ (date) M. Smith, 385652472CFI or
> > /s/ (date) M. Smith, USUA Ultralight Instructor (or
> > other approved instructor)123454
> >
> > Note: In the case of ultralights, no certificate number
> > is required.
>
> Yes. I referred to this in my original note. However, I'm not quite clear
> what this means. This appears less like a note of completion of the entire
> phase, and more like the form on which completion of each component of the
> phase was indicated.
>
> That is, I've this separate form which I picked up at an educational
> program. This had a signature from the speaker already applied. It also
> had three lines for completion for the air instruction.
>
> Over time, my instructor completed those lines and then I sent a copy of
> that form into the FAA.

That's right. Your friendly FSDO or whoever will process your wings certificate
using that form.

>
>
> Is having that form sufficient, or should the above be explicitly written
> into my log?

According to the text above, the directions are to endorse your logbook or
records. The wording of the FAA endorsed endorsement is provided above.

> If I need something in the log, then do I need the above for
> each component, or just when all components of a phase are completed?

The endorsement text above specifically states that the training requirements in
paragraph 7a,b,c,d,e,f, or g has been met. For example, paragraph 7a refers to
airplanes. It lists one hour (paraphrasing) for basic maneuvers, one hour
flight training for takeoffs and landings, and one hour instrument work. If
your endorsement states that you've completed the requirements of 7a, than you
have completed one hour of each of those for airplanes. In other words, you
would only have the logbook endorsement when the entire wings phase is
complete. There is no reason to endorse for a partial wings completion; that
doesn't do anything useful for you. Only a completed wings phase is a
substitute for a BFR, not any portion alone.

[Jeff Saylor]

zatatime wrote:

> On Sun, 09 May 2004 19:08:07 -0400, Andrew Gideon
> > wrote:
>
> >Jeff Saylor wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Refer to Advisory Circular 61-91H. Section 9 a.
> >> You can view the entire AC from the FAA's web site
> >> from this link http://tinyurl.com/3x97q
> >>
> >> 9. AWARDING OF THE PILOT PROFICIENCY WINGS AND CERTIFICATE
> >>
> >> a. Endorsement Verification. As pilots complete each step of training
> >> outlined in paragraphs 7 or 8, whichever is appropriate, their logbooks or
> >> other proficiency records must be endorsed by the persons who gave the
> >> instruction. That endorsement should read substantively as follows:
> >>
> >> Mr./Ms._________________, holder of pilot
> >> certificate no.___________, has satisfactorily
> >> completed the training requirements outlined in
> >> Advisory Circular 61-9111, paragraphs 7a, b, c, d,
> >> e, f, or g (state which)
> >> /s/ (date) M. Smith, 385652472CFI or
> >> /s/ (date) M. Smith, USUA Ultralight Instructor (or
> >> other approved instructor)123454
> >>
> >> Note: In the case of ultralights, no certificate number
> >> is required.
> >
> >Yes. I referred to this in my original note. However, I'm not quite clear
> >what this means. This appears less like a note of completion of the entire
> >phase, and more like the form on which completion of each component of the
> >phase was indicated.
> >
> >That is, I've this separate form which I picked up at an educational
> >program. This had a signature from the speaker already applied. It also
> >had three lines for completion for the air instruction.
> >
> >Over time, my instructor completed those lines and then I sent a copy of
> >that form into the FAA.
> >
> >Is having that form sufficient, or should the above be explicitly written
> >into my log? If I need something in the log, then do I need the above for
> >each component, or just when all components of a phase are completed?
> >
> >Or something else?
> >
> >Thanks...
> >
> > Andrew
>
> You need some sort of "reliable record" for currency in your
> posession, so either staple a photocopy of what you send the FAA in
> your logbook (a pain, and potentially not legal since its a photocopy)
> or have the instructor make an equvilant endorsement. You only need a
> record of the completed phase, not each component.

Where is the requirement to keep a record of currency in your possession?

[Andrew Gideon]

Jeff Saylor wrote:

> There is no reason to endorse for a partial wings completion;
> that
> doesn't do anything useful for you. Only a completed wings phase is a
> substitute for a BFR, not any portion alone.

So who signs this endorsement of completion in the log? The training could
have been provided by four different people (although I've only two in my
case). The "final" instructor?

- Andrew

[Andrew Gideon]

Andrew Gideon wrote:

> Jeff Saylor wrote:
>
>> There is no reason to endorse for a partial wings completion;
>> that
>> doesn't do anything useful for you. Only a completed wings phase is a
>> substitute for a BFR, not any portion alone.
>
> So who signs this endorsement of completion in the log? The training
> could have been provided by four different people (although I've only two
> in my
> case). The "final" instructor?

And when should he sign? Should he wait for the FSDO to approve the
application, or should he sign it immediately upon completion of the final
component of the phase being finished?

- Andrew

[Teacherjh]

>>
There is no reason to endorse for a partial wings completion; that
doesn't do anything useful for you. Only a completed wings phase is a
substitute for a BFR, not any portion alone.
<<

So I go up three times with three different instructors, and attend a seminar
at which none of those instructors is present. Who endorses me that I have
completed the wings training? None of the instructors can certify the
instruction given by any other instructor, and the ground phase is never
recorded as an endorsement in a logbook.

Jose

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