car seats in taxis

[J. Hansen]

I am planning a trip including my five year old son to Niagara falls
next weekend. We are flying into Niagra Falls International Airport
(IAG) and plan to stay only for the day. The problem is how to get
from the airport to the falls and back. The natural choice is a taxi,
but what do we do with the car seat once we get there? I'd rather not
carry it around all day. We could of course rent a car, but that
seems like an overkill just to create a place to put the car seat. Is
there any place to store a car seat near the falls? Is there any other
reasonable transportation from IAG to the falls for five adults and
two children that will not require a car seat (we can always leave it
on the plane)? or am I overly cautious in thinking we need a car seat
for two ten minute taxi rides?

Jeff H, CP-AM&SEL, CFII

[Peter R.]

J. Hansen ) wrote:

> I am planning a trip including my five year old son to Niagara falls
> next weekend.

I faced this exact dilemma two weeks ago with my soon-to-be-five year old
and a six year old. The four of us (wife included) flew to Niagara Falls
for the day and I also wondered about the need for a car seat for the ten
minute ride from the airport to the Falls tourist area.

After talking with a State Trooper friend, I learned that car seats are not
required once the child is over 40 pounds and four years old in NY state,
so legally there was no issue.

So, the decision came down to an issue of safety. In the end, we decided
that as long as the boys were buckled up in the taxi with lap belts and
shoulder straps and they were placed on the left and right side of the back
seats (no center seating for them), they would be relatively safe.

Note that in our case, the taxi took the highway for a portion of the ride
from the airport to the Falls area, although I suppose you could request a
route through the residential area (which is what our driver did for the
return trip).

Since we wanted to see the Canadian side, we cabbed it right to Rainbow
Bridge, then walked over the bridge to the Canadian side. Otherwise the
cab ride would have been much more expensive and, given the traffic at
customs, just as long as the ten minute walk. On the other side we
flagged a Canadian cab to to the falls overlook.

Just be aware that the pedestrian portion of Rainbow bridge has only a four
foot high railing to keep one from tumbling to the river below, so we kept
our children close. :)

--
Peter

[Peter Duniho]

"J. Hansen" > wrote in message
om...
> [...] Is there any other
> reasonable transportation from IAG to the falls for five adults and
> two children that will not require a car seat (we can always leave it
> on the plane)? or am I overly cautious in thinking we need a car seat
> for two ten minute taxi rides?

As far as safety goes, I guess that depends on how big your five year old is
and whether he is safe under a regular lap belt. Any occupants MUST be
safely secured, even for two ten minute taxi rides. Whether you need a car
seat to do this or not, I can't say, not knowing enough about your
situation.

As far as the taxi ride goes...you mention five adults and two children, so
a) I don't know how old the other child is, and b) I don't see how all those
people will fit into a single sedan. You must either be talking about
multiple taxis or a van or something like that, right?

Here in the Seattle area, there are taxi companies that have their own car
seats. It's possible one or more of the taxi providers in Niagra Falls also
can provide car seats. Certainly it would be worth calling around and
asking. Make sure they not only have car seats, but they have car seats
that will fit the child (children) you have with you.

Pete

[gatt]

"Peter R." > wrote in message

> So, the decision came down to an issue of safety. In the end, we decided
> that as long as the boys were buckled up in the taxi with lap belts and
> shoulder straps and they were placed on the left and right side of the
back
> seats (no center seating for them), they would be relatively safe.

You know, I'm fairly certain we all grew up just fine without kiddie car
seats, (and bike helmets, and...) so it's not like it's terribly unsafe. At
least, it's no more unsafe for your child than it was ten years ago before
car seats were ubiqitous. In fact it could be argued that the vehicles
themselves are inherently safer than they were when we were standing in the
middle of the bench seat of dad's old pickup so we could see over the
dashboard.

Remember those days?

When I rode in Nine-O-Nine with my grandfather, which was the first time
he'd flown in one since crashing on 14 Oct 1943, I had to show HIM how to
attach the seatbelts. "We never had these damned things," he said.

-c

[Peter Duniho]

"gatt" > wrote in message
...
> You know, I'm fairly certain we all grew up just fine without kiddie car
> seats, (and bike helmets, and...) so it's not like it's terribly unsafe.

What an odd statement.

All of the folks who flew in B-17s during WWII who might today write a
statement similar to yours managed to come out of it okay too. Does that
mean that being part of the crew on a B-17 over Germany is not "terribly
unsafe"?

Alternatively, instead of being "fairly certain we all grew up just fine
without kiddie car seats", you should consider the children who did NOT grow
up just fine, but instead were killed in a car accident that they would have
survived had they been in a car seat. There were a lot more of those kids
thirty years ago than there are today.

Pete

[Cub Driver]

On 14 May 2004 09:35:54 -0700, (J. Hansen) wrote:

>am I overly cautious in thinking we need a car seat
>for two ten minute taxi rides

New York state does not require a car seat for a five-year old. (Under
four is the rule.)

www.nydmv.state.ny.us/dmvfaqs.htm

Jay, my wife and I drove across the United States and back with our
daughter (six months outbound, eight months returning) in a wicker
basket on the floor of a Volkswagen camper. (In Tucson on the way
back, we bought a couple yards of army surplus mosquito netting to tie
over the basket, since she had learned to stand up meanwhile.)

Now a mother herself, our daughter obsesses about car seats. Like
bicycle and skiing helmets, I think it's all much overblown. I'd like
to see her put as much devotion into making the children wash their
hands.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

[Cub Driver]

>There were a lot more of those kids
>thirty years ago than there are today.

Are there really?

And what in the end is the difference between a one-in-a-million
chance and a one-in-999,999 chance?

Personally, I have never been involved in a collision in 55 years of
driving. I faithfully buckle up every time I get in the car, but I
know in my heart that it is a waste of time. By now I must have spent
*days* of my life buckling up.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

[Mike Weller]

On Fri, 14 May 2004 13:14:57 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
> wrote:

>Alternatively, instead of being "fairly certain we all grew up just fine
>without kiddie car seats", you should consider the children who did NOT grow
>up just fine, but instead were killed in a car accident that they would have
>survived had they been in a car seat. There were a lot more of those kids
>thirty years ago than there are today.
>
>Pete
>

Oh really, I can't think of a single one. I never lost a friend in a
car wreck until I got to be a teenager.

Mike Weller
"You'll put someone's eye out with that BB gun."

[Dave S]

In fifteen years as a paramedic, I have never unbuckled a dead body. I
have thrown a sheet over more than a few who didnt. Buckling up is safer
than not doing so. Car seat belts are designed for adults. Child Car
Seats are designed to restain children. You use the right tool for the
right job.

Dave

Mike Weller wrote:

> On Fri, 14 May 2004 13:14:57 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Alternatively, instead of being "fairly certain we all grew up just fine
>>without kiddie car seats", you should consider the children who did NOT grow
>>up just fine, but instead were killed in a car accident that they would have
>>survived had they been in a car seat. There were a lot more of those kids
>>thirty years ago than there are today.
>>
>>Pete
>>
>
>
> Oh really, I can't think of a single one. I never lost a friend in a
> car wreck until I got to be a teenager.
>
> Mike Weller
> "You'll put someone's eye out with that BB gun."
>

[Teacherjh]

>>
Personally, I have never been involved in a collision in 55 years of
driving.
<<

I've never had a plane fall apart on me, but i still preflight. In fact, I
spend more time preflighting an airplane than I do buckling my seatbelt in the
car.

Jose


--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Gene Seibel]

(J. Hansen) wrote in message >...
> I am planning a trip including my five year old son to Niagara falls
> next weekend. We are flying into Niagra Falls International Airport
> (IAG) and plan to stay only for the day. The problem is how to get
> from the airport to the falls and back. The natural choice is a taxi,
> but what do we do with the car seat once we get there? I'd rather not
> carry it around all day. We could of course rent a car, but that
> seems like an overkill just to create a place to put the car seat. Is
> there any place to store a car seat near the falls? Is there any other
> reasonable transportation from IAG to the falls for five adults and
> two children that will not require a car seat (we can always leave it
> on the plane)? or am I overly cautious in thinking we need a car seat
> for two ten minute taxi rides?
>
> Jeff H, CP-AM&SEL, CFII

Interesting how things change - When I was 5 years old, no one had
heard of car seats and I was riding around on a farm sitting on the
fender of a tractor.
--
Gene Seibel
The Farm - http://pad39a.com/gene/farm.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

[Buff5200]

Try looking on line for convertible car seats.

there are several brands of car seat that "convert" into a stroller.

the kid may want to walk, but 3/4 of the strollers I see in the park are
just used to carry the cargo that goes with the kid anyway.

J. Hansen wrote:

>I am planning a trip including my five year old son to Niagara falls
>next weekend. We are flying into Niagra Falls International Airport
>(IAG) and plan to stay only for the day. The problem is how to get
>from the airport to the falls and back. The natural choice is a taxi,
>but what do we do with the car seat once we get there? I'd rather not
>carry it around all day. We could of course rent a car, but that
>seems like an overkill just to create a place to put the car seat. Is
>there any place to store a car seat near the falls? Is there any other
>reasonable transportation from IAG to the falls for five adults and
>two children that will not require a car seat (we can always leave it
>on the plane)? or am I overly cautious in thinking we need a car seat
>for two ten minute taxi rides?
>
>Jeff H, CP-AM&SEL, CFII
>
>

[Garner Miller]

In article >, Cub Driver
> wrote:

> Personally, I have never been involved in a collision in 55 years of
> driving. I faithfully buckle up every time I get in the car, but I
> know in my heart that it is a waste of time.

I've been in two in the last 10 years. Both of them the other guy's
fault, and both of them would have been quite serious without the belt.

The latest incident? Last month, a Civic lost control in front of me
on a curve on the interstate, went from the exit ramp across my lane
(the right of 3 lanes) at about a 70-degree angle, and crunched right
into the guardrail at around 40 miles per hour. I pulled over, crossed
to the median when the traffic would allow, and found two people in bad
shape in the car.

Know why? Because their HEADS HIT THE DASHBOARD in what should have
otherwise been a mild impact. She was bleeding badly from her
forehead, and her passenger's right eye was pretty much destroyed.
Will they live? I'm sure. But if I'd been that guy with the smashed
eye, my commercial aviation career would be over. Not worth it to me.
Not at all.


People make mistakes and do stupid, dangerous things every day on the
roads. And equipment can and does fail from time to time. Until we
reach a point where neither of those is the case, I'll continue to
buckle my seatbelt.

You're fortunate you haven't ever been in an accident, and I hope it
stays that was. But statistically speaking, you as an active driver
have an 80% chance of being in an accident within the next 10 years.
You may feel like you're wasting your time, and I hope you're never
proven wrong. Me, I'm believing the odds and keeping the thing
strapped on.

--
Garner R. Miller
ATP/CFII/MEI
Manchester, CT =USA=

[Ash Wyllie]

Peter Duniho opined

>"gatt" > wrote in message
...
>> You know, I'm fairly certain we all grew up just fine without kiddie car
>> seats, (and bike helmets, and...) so it's not like it's terribly unsafe.

>What an odd statement.

>All of the folks who flew in B-17s during WWII who might today write a
>statement similar to yours managed to come out of it okay too. Does that
>mean that being part of the crew on a B-17 over Germany is not "terribly
>unsafe"?

>Alternatively, instead of being "fairly certain we all grew up just fine
>without kiddie car seats", you should consider the children who did NOT grow
>up just fine, but instead were killed in a car accident that they would have
>survived had they been in a car seat. There were a lot more of those kids
>thirty years ago than there are today.

One wonders which is more dangerous, riding a few miles in a car without a
seatbelt (or kiddie seat), or flying in a light aircraft?



-ash
Cthulhu for President!
Why vote for a lesser evil?

[Judah]

I believe you can buy a relatively inexpensive seat belt attachment that
will allow you to adjust it to work properly on a child. I can't for the
life of me remember the brand name, but it is made of fabric (I think
nylon) and quite portable (roll it up and have your wife carry it in her
pocketbook). You slip the end of the seatbelt through this piece, and it
makes the shoulder strap actually go across your child's shoulder...

Might not be as good as a car seat, but definitely better than nothing!


(J. Hansen) wrote in news:3db2faf1.0405140835.6a89b6f4
@posting.google.com:

> I am planning a trip including my five year old son to Niagara falls
> next weekend. We are flying into Niagra Falls International Airport
> (IAG) and plan to stay only for the day. The problem is how to get
> from the airport to the falls and back. The natural choice is a taxi,
> but what do we do with the car seat once we get there? I'd rather not
> carry it around all day. We could of course rent a car, but that
> seems like an overkill just to create a place to put the car seat. Is
> there any place to store a car seat near the falls? Is there any other
> reasonable transportation from IAG to the falls for five adults and
> two children that will not require a car seat (we can always leave it
> on the plane)? or am I overly cautious in thinking we need a car seat
> for two ten minute taxi rides?
>
> Jeff H, CP-AM&SEL, CFII

[Cub Driver]

Warning to parent-aviators:

My daughter (who as previously posted is obsessive about car seats)
noted yesterday that the coming thing in state laws is car seats /
boosters for children under 80 pounds!

(Crikey, I've dated girls that weighed not much more than that!)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

[G.R. Patterson III]

Cub Driver wrote:
>
> (Crikey, I've dated girls that weighed not much more than that!)

That law would've required that my first wife use a booster seat even after she got
her driver's license.

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.

[Robert M. Gary]

When my kids were smaller I often ran into the same situation. I found
that businesses were very helpful with the car seats. I often found
that the admissions area of the place you are going to didn't mind
holding the seats, restuarants often would do the same if you ate
there.

-Robert, CFI

(J. Hansen) wrote in message >...
> I am planning a trip including my five year old son to Niagara falls
> next weekend. We are flying into Niagra Falls International Airport
> (IAG) and plan to stay only for the day. The problem is how to get
> from the airport to the falls and back. The natural choice is a taxi,
> but what do we do with the car seat once we get there? I'd rather not
> carry it around all day. We could of course rent a car, but that
> seems like an overkill just to create a place to put the car seat. Is
> there any place to store a car seat near the falls? Is there any other
> reasonable transportation from IAG to the falls for five adults and
> two children that will not require a car seat (we can always leave it
> on the plane)? or am I overly cautious in thinking we need a car seat
> for two ten minute taxi rides?
>
> Jeff H, CP-AM&SEL, CFII

[Cub Driver]

On 15 May 04 13:03:22 -0500, "Ash Wyllie" > wrote:

>One wonders which is more dangerous, riding a few miles in a car without a
>seatbelt (or kiddie seat), or flying in a light aircraft?

As a grandparent of two very young girls, I often have cause to notice
that the larger peril in their lives is not the risk of an automobile
accident, but of falling off their chairs in a restaurant, or indeed
of running into the corner of a table while chasing the cats.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

[Peter Duniho]

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
>
> >There were a lot more of those kids
> >thirty years ago than there are today.
>
> Are there really?

Yes, there are, really.

> And what in the end is the difference between a one-in-a-million
> chance and a one-in-999,999 chance?

Very little. But since those aren't the odds of being killed in a car
accident with or without a seatbelt, those numbers are irrelevant. Put them
back in your ass where they were in the first place.

> Personally, I have never been involved in a collision in 55 years of
> driving. I faithfully buckle up every time I get in the car, but I
> know in my heart that it is a waste of time. By now I must have spent
> *days* of my life buckling up.

Out of how many days? I'm sure it's a teeny tiny fraction. That said, if
it weren't for the fact that your medical expenses affect my bottom line, I
wouldn't care one bit whether you wear a seatbelt or not. But that's you.
We're talking about child seats, and children really don't have the capacity
to make the judgment for themselves whether to risk their lives in that way,
even if their medical expenses didn't hurt everyone else (which they do).

Pete

[Peter Duniho]

"Ash Wyllie" > wrote in message
...
> One wonders which is more dangerous, riding a few miles in a car without a
> seatbelt (or kiddie seat), or flying in a light aircraft?

I think that's a fair question. But the risk of each is controllable, and
the risk of riding in the car can be reduced to practically no significant
risk of fatal injury with the proper precautions. It's silly to not take
those precautions, just as it's silly to not take the precautions that help
keep a flight in a light aircraft from being as risky as the overall 4 in
100,000 hours fatal accident rate would otherwise indicate (or whatever the
fatal rate is these days).

Pete

[J. Hansen]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message >...
> "J. Hansen" > wrote in message
> om...
> > [...] Is there any other
> > reasonable transportation from IAG to the falls for five adults and
> > two children that will not require a car seat (we can always leave it
> > on the plane)? or am I overly cautious in thinking we need a car seat
> > for two ten minute taxi rides?
>
> As far as safety goes, I guess that depends on how big your five year old is
> and whether he is safe under a regular lap belt. Any occupants MUST be
> safely secured, even for two ten minute taxi rides. Whether you need a car
> seat to do this or not, I can't say, not knowing enough about your
> situation.

My son is about 45 pounds. He's never been in a car without a car seat
and even the one time I've taken him in a taxi I used a car seat. Fortunately
the place we were visiting (the Natural History Museum in Cleveland) had a
place to store the car seat. I am certainly aware of the ironies of worying
about saftey in the car when I never used a carseat myself as a child, and
when I don't worry about taking him in a small plane (a Navajo in this case).

I suspect that my son himself will be the biggest car seat stickler in the
family. I can just see us putting him in the cab and him with a shocked
expression on his face panicing about the lack of a car seat.

>
> As far as the taxi ride goes...you mention five adults and two children, so
> a) I don't know how old the other child is, and b) I don't see how all those
> people will fit into a single sedan. You must either be talking about
> multiple taxis or a van or something like that, right?

The other child is older and does not need a car seat, and yes, I suspect
we will need to take two taxis or take one of those van taxis.

> Here in the Seattle area, there are taxi companies that have their own car
> seats. It's possible one or more of the taxi providers in Niagra Falls also
> can provide car seats. Certainly it would be worth calling around and
> asking. Make sure they not only have car seats, but they have car seats
> that will fit the child (children) you have with you.

I have already tried calling yellow cab and they do not provide car seats.
I don't know what other cab companies there might be in the area.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Peter Duniho wrote:
>
> We're talking about child seats, and children really don't have the capacity
> to make the judgment for themselves whether to risk their lives in that way,
> even if their medical expenses didn't hurt everyone else (which they do).

In fact, many of their parents and grandparents obviously don't have the capacity to
make that judgment, which is why we have laws about child seats.

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.

[Peter Duniho]

"J. Hansen" > wrote in message
om...
> [...]
> I have already tried calling yellow cab and they do not provide car seats.
> I don't know what other cab companies there might be in the area.

Well, on switchboard.com alone there are 16 listings for taxi services.
Google turned up a bunch of others too.

[Teacherjh]

>>
Well, on switchboard.com alone there are 16 listings for taxi services.
Google turned up a bunch of others too.
<<

I've been in situations where I needed a cab, and the internet turned up scads.
But when called, many of them don't answer, don't serve the area, or are
closed. Also many cab companies go by many names and many numbers. So, those
16 listings may well be for one company that has been out of business for seven
years.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Peter Duniho]

"Teacherjh" > wrote in message
...
> [...] those
> 16 listings may well be for one company that has been out of business for
seven
> years.

J. won't know until he calls, will he?

Could be I'm doomed to die in a car wreck tomorrow. I still plan to get out
of bed though.

Pete

[Teacherjh]

>> J. won't know until he calls, will he?

Right. But just the existance of 16 listings should not make him complacent.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Peter Duniho]

"Teacherjh" > wrote in message
...
> >> J. won't know until he calls, will he?
>
> Right. But just the existance of 16 listings should not make him
complacent.

Who said anything about him being complacent? I specifically suggested that
he call the companies prior to his trip. I haven't seen anything to suggest
that he would ignore that advice, or otherwise act in a complacent manner.

Pete

[J. Hansen]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message >...
> "Teacherjh" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >> J. won't know until he calls, will he?
> >
> > Right. But just the existance of 16 listings should not make him
> complacent.
>
> Who said anything about him being complacent? I specifically suggested that
> he call the companies prior to his trip. I haven't seen anything to suggest
> that he would ignore that advice, or otherwise act in a complacent manner.
>
> Pete

In the end I have just decided to rent a minivan. It does seem a bit of an
overkill, but since a cab fare is apparently about $13 one way, by the time
we pay round trip cab fare for two cabs it is already close to the cost of
renting a car (although I'm not sure how much parknig will be). We can also
split the costs with the friends we are taking with us. Since I am paying
the cost of the flight, it doesn't seem too unreasonable to ask to split the
car rental.

Jeff H.