Kansas

[Allan Tribe[_2_]]

Hi

I am visiting Manhattan Kansas 25 Mar - 14 Apr (my son works at K State). I
am a UK glider pilot with 2500 hrs, 3 Diamonds (in the UK!), an instructor
and comp pilot.
Could anyone stateside give me advice on licencing and what gliding I might
be able to do prior to my visit.

Regards

Allan Tribe

[Tony[_5_]]

On Saturday, March 8, 2014 2:23:27 PM UTC-6, Allan Tribe wrote:
> Hi
>
>
>
> I am visiting Manhattan Kansas 25 Mar - 14 Apr (my son works at K State). I
>
> am a UK glider pilot with 2500 hrs, 3 Diamonds (in the UK!), an instructor
>
> and comp pilot.
>
> Could anyone stateside give me advice on licencing and what gliding I might
>
> be able to do prior to my visit.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Allan Tribe

Allan,

There are a couple flying options in the Kansas City area that will probably be the closest to you. KC Eagles in Gardner, KS and Midwest Soaring at Richter's Airport SE of Kansas City. Check out the SSA "Where to Fly" page to find contact info. It looks like Midwest Soaring's website is currently inop. KC Eagles don't show that they start regular operations until May.
http://www.ssa.org/WhereToFly

If you want to drive a little further there are two operations in South Central Kansas. The Kansas and Wichita Soaring Associations fly at the Sunflower Gliderport near Hutchinson. We have monthly meetings in Wichita but unfortunately none of them line up with your visit. There is also a few towplanes at the Wichita Gliderport northeast of Wichita which may be more suited to your short term visit needs. No club membership required. If you're interested contact me offline and I can get you contact info there.

In general you're not going to be here for a historically good soaring time, but occasionally we get a good day that time of the year. You'll have a chance to fly classic american trainers (2-33 and 2-22) over terrain that has been statistically proven to be flatter than a pancake.

I'm not intimately familiar with the details and I'm sure others will chime in but I think it is relatively easy to get your overseas license converted to a US Certificate and then you just need a flight review with a US CFI in order to fly solo or carry passengers.

[Frank Whiteley]

On Saturday, March 8, 2014 1:23:27 PM UTC-7, Allan Tribe wrote:
> Hi
>
>
>
> I am visiting Manhattan Kansas 25 Mar - 14 Apr (my son works at K State). I
>
> am a UK glider pilot with 2500 hrs, 3 Diamonds (in the UK!), an instructor
>
> and comp pilot.
>
> Could anyone stateside give me advice on licencing and what gliding I might
>
> be able to do prior to my visit.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Allan Tribe

Wrong campus;^)
KSU Salina has a glider and tow pilot program. Not sure how active it is.

http://salina.k-state.edu/aviation/pilot/glider.html

[Roy Clark, \B6\]

On Saturday, March 8, 2014 12:49:52 PM UTC-8, Tony wrote:
> On Saturday, March 8, 2014 2:23:27 PM UTC-6, Allan Tribe wrote:
>
>
> In general you're not going to be here for a historically good soaring time, but occasionally we get a good day that time of the year. You'll have a chance to fly classic american trainers (2-33 and 2-22) over terrain that has been statistically proven to be flatter than a pancake.
>
Tony,

As a Native Child of the South Wind (born in Topeka; grew up in Big "TAH"),
I must remind you that Florida, not Kansas, is the flattest state.

["The land rises more than 3,000 ft (914 m) from the eastern alluvial prairies of Kansas to its western semiarid high plains, which stretch toward the foothills of the Rocky Mts. The rise is so gradual, however, that it is imperceptible, although the terrains of the east and the west are markedly different. The state is drained by the Kansas and Arkansas rivers, both of which generally run from west to east."
http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/us/kansas-state-united-states-geography.html#ixzz2vQlMVMIr]

Out X-C and Track Coach in the late '50s - early '60s at Wichita East thought it was almost "Runner's Heaven - just keeps on-going uphill." Bob Timmons coached Jim Ryun at WHS East and KU. Coach always was frustrated he couldn't quite lay out a completely uphill 2 mile course on Mt. Oread. [According to the United States Geological Survey, Mount Oread is located approximately 1,037 feet (316 m) above sea level. By way of comparison, downtown Lawrence is about 846 feet (258 m) above sea level. Mount Oread is perhaps best known for being the staging area of William Quantrill's raid into Lawrence on August 21, 1863, during the American Civil War.
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Oread]

I hope Allen will meet up with you and enjoy some mid-western hospitality.

Sad, though, his boy works at KSU, aka KCC (Kansas Cow College). ;)

I'm a Jayhawk - KU MEd '69

[Tony[_5_]]

On Saturday, March 8, 2014 9:13:39 PM UTC-6, Roy Clark, "B6" wrote:
> On Saturday, March 8, 2014 12:49:52 PM UTC-8, Tony wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, March 8, 2014 2:23:27 PM UTC-6, Allan Tribe wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > In general you're not going to be here for a historically good soaring time, but occasionally we get a good day that time of the year. You'll have a chance to fly classic american trainers (2-33 and 2-22) over terrain that has been statistically proven to be flatter than a pancake.
>
> >
>
> Tony,
>
>
>
> As a Native Child of the South Wind (born in Topeka; grew up in Big "TAH"),
>
> I must remind you that Florida, not Kansas, is the flattest state.
>
>
>
> ["The land rises more than 3,000 ft (914 m) from the eastern alluvial prairies of Kansas to its western semiarid high plains, which stretch toward the foothills of the Rocky Mts. The rise is so gradual, however, that it is imperceptible, although the terrains of the east and the west are markedly different. The state is drained by the Kansas and Arkansas rivers, both of which generally run from west to east."
>
> http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/us/kansas-state-united-states-geography.html#ixzz2vQlMVMIr]
>
>
>
> Out X-C and Track Coach in the late '50s - early '60s at Wichita East thought it was almost "Runner's Heaven - just keeps on-going uphill." Bob Timmons coached Jim Ryun at WHS East and KU. Coach always was frustrated he couldn't quite lay out a completely uphill 2 mile course on Mt. Oread. [According to the United States Geological Survey, Mount Oread is located approximately 1,037 feet (316 m) above sea level. By way of comparison, downtown Lawrence is about 846 feet (258 m) above sea level. Mount Oread is perhaps best known for being the staging area of William Quantrill's raid into Lawrence on August 21, 1863, during the American Civil War.
>
> -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Oread]
>
>
>
> I hope Allen will meet up with you and enjoy some mid-western hospitality..
>
>
>
> Sad, though, his boy works at KSU, aka KCC (Kansas Cow College). ;)
>
>
>
> I'm a Jayhawk - KU MEd '69

Never said it was the flattest, just statistically flatter than a pancake:

http://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume9/v9i3/kansas.html

Some do opine that a marble placed on I-70 at the Colorado border would roll to Kansas City.

On that note, during the annual Shrove Tuesday (Fat Tuesday for some of you, or International Pancake Day if you follow IHOP's marketing machine) pancake race between Liberal, KS and Olney, England, Olney won again this year for the third year in a row.

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Saturday, March 8, 2014 10:04:13 PM UTC-6, Tony wrote:
> Never said it was the flattest, just statistically flatter than a pancake: http://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume9/v9i3/kansas.html Some do opine that a marble placed on I-70 at the Colorado border would roll to Kansas City. On that note, during the annual Shrove Tuesday (Fat Tuesday for some of you, or International Pancake Day if you follow IHOP's marketing machine) pancake race between Liberal, KS and Olney, England, Olney won again this year for the third year in a row.

I think Pancake technology has evolved since that study in 2003, Tony. I suspect panckes are now flatter than Kansas. However, we are more out of plumb than a pancake.

Roy, we call that other school "Cow Tech". Or sometimes "Cow Poly".

KU Aerospace, 1986
Steve Leonard

[Bill T]

Others have answered on where to fly.

For your short duration trip, it may not be worthwhile to get a US certificate to fly N registered gliders in the US. Just fly a 2 seat glider with a US pilot qualified to act as pilot in command.

To get a US certificate based on your UK certificates, you'll need to file paperwork with the US Flight Standards District Office (FSDO) for the KS area in advance of your trip. They will verify your paperwork with the UK. Then you present yourself at the FSDO with your paperwork, certificate and passport ID and you can be issued a US pilot certificate at the private pilot level. Then complete a US Flight Review with any US instructor and you are good to solo or act as PIC in a US registered glider.

I'm not sure of the time line required to file the paperwork. But a search on FAA.gov may provide the information.

BillT

[Roy Clark, \B6\]

On Saturday, March 8, 2014 8:40:19 PM UTC-8, Steve Leonard wrote:
> On Saturday, March 8, 2014 10:04:13 PM UTC-6, Tony wrote:
>
> > Never said it was the flattest, just statistically flatter than a pancake: http://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume9/v9i3/kansas.html Some do opine that a marble placed on I-70 at the Colorado border would roll to Kansas City. On that note, during the annual Shrove Tuesday (Fat Tuesday for some of you, or International Pancake Day if you follow IHOP's marketing machine) pancake race between Liberal, KS and Olney, England, Olney won again this year for the third year in a row.
>

Steve and Tony,

My different sense of curiosity had led me to that article when first published - recall they used only one pancake and their first analysis revealed:

"The topographic transects of both Kansas and a pancake at millimeter scale are both quite flat, but this first analysis showed that Kansas is clearly flatter (see Figure 4)." - See more at: http://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume9/v9i3/kansas.html#sthash.bNp5jOSo.dpuf

And then, they explain:
"Measuring the flatness of Kansas presented us with a greater challenge than measuring the flatness of the pancake. The state is so flat that the off-the-shelf software produced a flatness value for it of 1. This value was, as they say, too good to be true, so we did a more complex analysis, and after many hours of programming work, we were able to estimate that Kansas's flatness is approximately 0.9997. That degree of flatness might be described, mathematically, as "damn flat." - See more at: http://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume9/v9i3/kansas.html#sthash.bNp5jOSo.dpuf

"Too good to be true" is code for we didn't find what we wanted to find.

Whatever "more complex analysis" methods used are not elucidated in the article. Try getting that past a third grade science teacher or Bill Nye, the Science Guy.

That's why it's called "Annals of Improbable Research" with "Improbable research" defined as "research that makes people laugh and then think."

"The highest point in Florida is Britton Hill, Lakewood Park in Walton County and is only 345 feet above sea level."
http://www.netstate.com/states/geography/fl_geography.htm

My wife returned from a trip to Florida with 2 photos, standing next to road markers: "Rock Reef Pass Elevation 3 Feet" and a breathtaking "Dwarf Cypress Forest 4 Ft." She said she was surprised to make those "summits" without our climbing gear.

While pancake technology may have evolved, I am disappointed in our Kansas Ladies recent performances in the pancake race. Perhaps a more aerodynamically sculptured skillet and a zigzag turbulator syrup design would help. Go for it, could lead to an article in Annals of Improbable Research, or Runner's World, or some free pancakes!

Will be in Lawrence first weekend in October and will keep the soaring suggestions given to Allen in mind.

Thanks for the KSU nickname update.

BTW, did you recognize Milford Reservoir in the SSA Reno Ostiv presentation?

[Bob Whelan[_3_]]

On 3/9/2014 9:42 PM, Roy Clark, "B6" wrote:
<Snip...>

> "The highest point in Florida is Britton Hill, Lakewood Park in Walton
> County and is only 345 feet above sea level."

And Mt. Sunflower (really!) is Kansas' highest point, 4,039 feet asl.

I've led successful expeditions to both summits. Thanks to both having
monuments in the appropriate places, it was easy to tell when both summits had
been summited! Jimmy Cagney came to mind ("I'm on top of the world, Ma!!!")...

Bob - awaiting knighthood - W.

[[email protected]]

Allan ~

Several people have given you a little advice regarding licensing. Here's my experience.

You need a US certificate to solo in a glider with a N number.

You can get a US certificate based on a certificate issued by your home civil air authority (in your case, the BGA) or you can go through the testing procedure at a glider flight school.

The reciprocal process takes about 6 weeks or more: the BGA have to send two signed certificates to the FAA with mention of which Flight Standards District Office you will visit to obtain the final papers. The two certificates are certification as to the accuracy of your log book and a statement that you have a license issued by them. There are on-line forms at FAA.GOV. The FAA will take about 4-6 weeks to notify the FSDO you will be going to that they may issue a certificate. Before you can use it to fly solo (or with passengers) you need to take a short check flight with an instructor to "activate" the new certificate. The process could work i a matter of days if the FAA could do their part quickly, but that does not seem to happen.

We frequently told pilots visiting from outside the USA that it was faster (if they were experienced pilots) to go through the testing process. This requires an instructor to endorse you for solo flight, several solo flights (could be as many as 10) and then another few flights from an instructor to endorse you for the check ride. The check ride itself can be done in a day and the certificate (or a temporary version) issued immediately following successful completion of the check ride, but this is more costly.

The difference between the two certificates is that the reciprocal one is based on your BGA license and if that expires, so does your US certificate. For pilots visiting the USA more than once, it is probably better to get the test-based certificate. If you know you will only visit once, the reciprocal one is fine (and cheaper), but it is probably too late now to get the paperwork done in time. Good luck. Fred