can one log PIC if another person is flying

[Baron Man]

can one log PIC if another person is flying.

what if you're an instructor.

same for twins - if i have a ME instructor rating, can i
log PIC time in an airplane that i do not have formal
training in - but is similar cat/class - piston twin etc.

thanks

[Todd Pattist]

"Baron Man" > wrote:

>can one log PIC if another person is flying.

Yes - 61.51 if "acting as pilot in command of an
aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the
type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under
which the flight is conducted"

>what if you're an instructor.

That too allows it

>same for twins - if i have a ME instructor rating, can i
>log PIC time in an airplane that i do not have formal
>training in - but is similar cat/class - piston twin etc.

Yes if the SAME cat/class and a type cert is not required.
I'm not sure what you would consider to be a "similar"
cat/class. It's either the same cat/class or it's not, and
if it's not, the answer is no. As to whether it's a good
idea to instruct in an aircraft you have no familiarity
with, or what the insurance will say, I'll leave that to
others, but you're not required to have logged any formal
training in the models you instruct in before giving
instruction.
Todd Pattist
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)
___
Make a commitment to learn something from every flight.
Share what you learn.

[Bob Moore]

"Baron Man" wrote
> same for twins - if i have a ME instructor rating, can i
> log PIC time in an airplane that i do not have formal
> training in - but is similar cat/class - piston twin etc.

Yes....but 61.195 is applicable:
(f) Training received in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a
powered-lift. A flight instructor may not give training required for the
issuance of a certificate or rating in a multiengine airplane, a
helicopter, or a powered-lift unless that flight instructor has at least 5
flight hours of pilot-in-command time in the specific make and model of
multiengine airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift, as appropriate.

Bob Moore

[BTIZ]

Todd.. remember the make and model requirement for instructing in twins..
61.195

BT

"Todd Pattist" > wrote in message
...
> "Baron Man" > wrote:
>
> >can one log PIC if another person is flying.
>
> Yes - 61.51 if "acting as pilot in command of an
> aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the
> type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under
> which the flight is conducted"
>
> >what if you're an instructor.
>
> That too allows it
>
> >same for twins - if i have a ME instructor rating, can i
> >log PIC time in an airplane that i do not have formal
> >training in - but is similar cat/class - piston twin etc.
>
> Yes if the SAME cat/class and a type cert is not required.
> I'm not sure what you would consider to be a "similar"
> cat/class. It's either the same cat/class or it's not, and
> if it's not, the answer is no. As to whether it's a good
> idea to instruct in an aircraft you have no familiarity
> with, or what the insurance will say, I'll leave that to
> others, but you're not required to have logged any formal
> training in the models you instruct in before giving
> instruction.
> Todd Pattist
> (Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)
> ___
> Make a commitment to learn something from every flight.
> Share what you learn.

[Robert M. Gary]

"Baron Man" > wrote in message >...
> can one log PIC if another person is flying.

Safety pilots can IF they are serving as PIC at the same time since
they are a required crew member.

> what if you're an instructor.

Only if you are actually giving instruction. The FAA gets pretty grim
when people try to log PIC all the time they ride with their friend.
Make sure you log who to flew with and what type of instruction you
provided.

> same for twins - if i have a ME instructor rating, can i
> log PIC time in an airplane that i do not have formal
> training in - but is similar cat/class - piston twin etc.

Only if you are actually flying. You can't give instruction in the
twin unless you already have 5 hours of time in the plane so you can't
give instruction.

[Dave]

Todd Pattist > wrote in message >...
> "Baron Man" > wrote:
>
> >can one log PIC if another person is flying.

To add to the prior post, a safety pilot may also log PIC time while
assisting another pilot doing simulated IFR. In that case, both
pilots are logging PIC. This has been hotly debated where some have
vehemently argued that the safety pilot is not acting as PIC, and thus
can't log it. Then someone actually wrote the FAA and got a written
response from FAA councel that yes, the safety pilot is a required
crewmember under the conditions (simulated IFR) and therefore may log
it.

The safety pilot need not be an instructor - they only need to hold at
least private rating and be signed off in category/class.

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On 17 May 2004 17:46:36 -0700, (Dave) wrote:

>To add to the prior post, a safety pilot may also log PIC time while
>assisting another pilot doing simulated IFR. In that case, both
>pilots are logging PIC. This has been hotly debated where some have
>vehemently argued that the safety pilot is not acting as PIC, and thus
>can't log it. Then someone actually wrote the FAA and got a written
>response from FAA councel that yes, the safety pilot is a required
>crewmember under the conditions (simulated IFR) and therefore may log
>it.

And just to add to that, the safety pilot may only log PIC if he and the
pilot flying have agreed that the safety pilot will be the PIC per the
definition in 1.1.

And if the safety pilot is acting as PIC, he has to be fully qualified and
current in the aircraft.

If he is only acting as safety pilot (and not also acting as PIC), he needs
only a current medical, private pilot certificate, and rated in category
and class.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Teacherjh]

>>
And just to add to that, the safety pilot may only log PIC if he and the
pilot flying have agreed that the safety pilot will be the PIC per the
definition in 1.1.
<<

And to add to =that=, if the safety pilot is not acting as PIC, he can log SiC
time.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On 18 May 2004 02:58:53 GMT, (Teacherjh) wrote:

>And to add to =that=

:-))


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Richard Kaplan]

"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:FBcqc.57800$iy5.38950@okepread05...

> Todd.. remember the make and model requirement for instructing in twins..
> 61.195

That only applies for instruction toward a certificate or rating.


--------------------
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

[Bob Martin]

> And to add to =that=, if the safety pilot is not acting as PIC, he can log SiC
> time.
>
> Jose

I've never quite understood what qualified for SiC time... if I go up
with a friend, and both of us have the ratings and such applicable to
the aircraft, does one person go PIC and the other SIC? Or can I only
do that if the aircraft is required to have 2 pilots?

Also, I've been logging the time I fly with my dad, even though I'm
not technically able to be PIC (no tailwheel signoff). I made up a
category I called "second pilot", since I figured that I was gaining
experience and all but I couldn't put it down as SIC. Could I have?

[Teacherjh]

>>
I've never quite understood what qualified for SiC time... if I go up
with a friend, and both of us have the ratings and such applicable to
the aircraft, does one person go PIC and the other SIC? Or can I only
do that if the aircraft is required to have 2 pilots?
<<

The plane, or the operation, needs to require two pilots. Just going up with a
friend does not. Going IFR with a friend does not. Going IFR in the soup with
a friend who is not IFR current does not. However, putting on the hood for IFR
practice in VFR conditions DOES, so the safety pilot can log SIC time. (this
is written up in one of the FAA FAQs, though those FAQs are not regulatory)

>>
Also, I've been logging the time I fly with my dad, even though I'm
not technically able to be PIC (no tailwheel signoff). I made up a
category I called "second pilot", since I figured that I was gaining
experience and all but I couldn't put it down as SIC. Could I have?
<<

No. You were a passenger, even if you were manipulating the controls. (That
is, unless your dad is a CFI with the proper endorsements AND he was giving you
flight instruction).

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Hilton]

Bob,

Bob Martin wrote:

> I've never quite understood what qualified for SiC time... if I go up
> with a friend, and both of us have the ratings and such applicable to
> the aircraft, does one person go PIC and the other SIC? Or can I only
> do that if the aircraft is required to have 2 pilots?

If the other pilot is under the hood you log PIC is you are *acting* as PIC
(make sure you satisfy the requirements; i.e. rated, endorsements, currency,
medical, insurance etc), and you log SIC if you are not *acting* as PIC (SIC
requires rating and medical).


> Also, I've been logging the time I fly with my dad, even though I'm
> not technically able to be PIC (no tailwheel signoff). I made up a
> category I called "second pilot", since I figured that I was gaining
> experience and all but I couldn't put it down as SIC. Could I have?

You can log all the time you fly your Dad's tailwheel plane as PIC, your Dad
log none of this time. (assuming it's a single-engine and you have your
PP-SEL or CP-SEL).

Hilton