NYC Help?

[Toks Desalu]

Two things(Three actually):

In July, I will be making a cross country trip to New York City to visit a
life-long friend. At one point, I would like fly along to Hudson River path
to see the Statue of Liberty. I was wondering if that path is open to VFR?
New policy? Do I have to inform anyone in advance? Any suggestion?

I would need a tie down for a couple days near NYC. My friend lives in
Manhattan. Which airport do you recommend(non-controlled airport preferred)?
Cost?

Any suggestion for this trip? Gear? I will be flying either Cessna 150 or a
Warrior. I haven't decide yet. By the way, I will be flying to NYC from
Pittsburgh.

Toks Desalu
PP-ASEL
Dyin' to Soar

[Thomas J. Paladino Jr.]

"Toks Desalu" > wrote in message
news:GIzsc.112001$iF6.10265817@attbi_s02...
> Two things(Three actually):
>
> In July, I will be making a cross country trip to New York City to visit a
> life-long friend. At one point, I would like fly along to Hudson River
path
> to see the Statue of Liberty. I was wondering if that path is open to VFR?
> New policy? Do I have to inform anyone in advance? Any suggestion?
>
> I would need a tie down for a couple days near NYC. My friend lives in
> Manhattan. Which airport do you recommend(non-controlled airport
preferred)?
> Cost?
>
> Any suggestion for this trip? Gear? I will be flying either Cessna 150 or
a
> Warrior. I haven't decide yet. By the way, I will be flying to NYC from
> Pittsburgh.
>
> Toks Desalu
> PP-ASEL
> Dyin' to Soar
>
>

First thing, get yourself the NYC terminal area chart. Study it well, and
don't even think about entering NYC airspace without it. On the back of the
TAC are the procedures for flying the Hudson, I've done it a few times
myself, and it's really spectacular. There is a self-announce procedure for
VFR ops, and most pilots request some kind of flight following during the
ride as well, just to be on the safe side. The NYC controllers are highly
professional and usually extremely accomodating of VFR pilots, so unless it
is an extraordinarially busy day, they'll help you out. 140 kts is the max
speed within the Hudson corridor, and you need to keep all your lights on at
all times. There is also a permanant TFR in the direct vicinity of the
Statue of Liberty. And before you even attempt such a flight, make sure that
the President isn't in town, or there isn't any heightened security in the
city; city-wide TFRs pop up all the time. Best advice is to get a good
briefing, study the procedure on the chart, have your radios preprogrammed
with the frequencies (there'll be a few of them) and keep your eyes open.
Even on a slow day, the NYC airspace is more crowded than anywhere else on
earth.

As for which airport to tie-down at, there is only one uncontrolled field in
the the vast NYC class B (Linden, NJ-- LDJ). So unless you don't mind a
2+hour commute into Manhattan from your tie-down, you're going to have to
land at a controlled field (at least Class D). Teterboro is the closest GA
airport to Manhattan (like 20 minutes), but it has a tricky arrival
procedure (especially if you were hoping for an uncontrolled field), so it
may not be your first choice. The other two closest GA fields are
Westchester (HPN) which is about 40 minutes out of Manhattan, and Republic
(FRG) about an hour out. I fly out of Republic (I also live in Manhattan).

Any way you slice it, you are going to have to do a good amount of talking
to controllers; there's just no way around it.

Cost-wise...well...it's New York. Here's an easy formula: Take whatever
you'd normally spend on anything and triple it (at least), and then you have
the New York price. This goes for everything, not just aviation.

[David Megginson]

Toks Desalu wrote:

> I would need a tie down for a couple days near NYC. My friend lives in
> Manhattan. Which airport do you recommend(non-controlled airport preferred)?
> Cost?

Republic Airport at Farmingdale (KFRG) is nice -- I was there a bit over a
week ago. The airport is controlled, but it's mixed-use with a lot of VFR
traffic and a fairly laid-back tower. Tied-down for my Warrior at the Long
Island Jet Center was USD 10/night, with the first night free after I filled
up (gas was quite expensive). The airport is a five-minute drive from the
Long Island Railroad station. There's a train into Manhattan's Penn Station
(about a 10 minute walk south of Times Square) at least every hour during
the day, and it's inexpensive. On the other hand, Republic is on the wrong
side of NYC for you, so it probably doesn't make sense unless you fly across
to Albany and then south from there.

I've also flown into Caldwell, NJ (KCDW), which has a tower and mostly
small-airplane traffic. The airport was friendly enough, but it was a major
pain in the behind getting into Manhattan from the airport, and even worse
getting back late at night. I don't remember the tie-down cost, but you can
check it on airnav.com. Caldwell is a fair bit closer to you, so it might
be your best bet, but sort out ground transportation first. A taxi or car
and driver into Manhattan can easily take 90 minutes (at least that was my
experience) and cost over USD 70.00, so find out about trains and busses or
see if your friend will drive out and pick you up.

Next time, if I'm in a hurry I might try Teterboro on the Jersey side. From
what I've heard, it's a cheap cab ride from Manhattan out to Teterboro, but
a ridiculously expensive ride from Teterboro into Manhattan. If you don't
like controlled airports, though, I doubt you'd like Teterboro much, since
it's very busy -- it's also more expensive to tie down.

You might have a long flight home in a Cessna 150 -- a 30 kt headwind would
have the cars passing you below. Unless you want to take your time and
enjoy the scenery for quite a few hours, you might want to consider renting
the Warrior instead.


All the best, and have fun,


David

[David Megginson]

Thomas J. Paladino Jr. wrote:

> Cost-wise...well...it's New York. Here's an easy formula: Take whatever
> you'd normally spend on anything and triple it (at least), and then you have
> the New York price. This goes for everything, not just aviation.

Not quite everything -- it certainly goes for hotels, but NY taxis are cheap
for getting around Manhattan, the subway and busses are easy and
inexpensive, and there are lots of good, low-price restaurants and delis if
you don't mind exploring a bit away from the tacky tourist parts of the
city. You can pay a lot for clothes on 5th Avenue or for CDs at HMV on
Times Square, but if you don't mind poking around more interesting, less
glitzy neighbourhoods, you'll find all kinds of great deals, as in any big city.

At Republic, gas was mind-numbingly expensive (over USD 4/hour, if I recall
correctly) but tie-down and landing fees were quite cheap compared to many
airports elsewhere in North America.


All the best,


David

[Marc J. Zeitlin]

Toks Desalu asks;

> ... I was wondering if that path is open to VFR?
> New policy? Do I have to inform anyone in advance? Any suggestion?

You've gotten response on this - I'd add only one thing, which is that
if the Yankees are playing a baseball game, the TFR over Yankee stadium
extends over the Hudson - be sure to check if it's in effect before
taking the tour.

> I would need a tie down for a couple days near NYC. My friend lives in
> Manhattan. Which airport do you recommend(non-controlled airport
preferred)?
> Cost?

Teterboro's OK - just contact them far enough out to get a squawk code
and the frequencies, and there are busses into the city from there.
It's controlled and has a $15 landing fee, along with whatever tiedown
fee the FBO you choose will hit you with.

Caldwell (CDW) is another controlled field further west, just off of
Route 80. Tiedown at Caldwell Air Services there is $8/night (I leave my
COZY there when I visit my parents in NJ). There's no direct service
into the city, but you can take a cab (or walk) to the nearby mall and
take a bus from their into the city.

North of CDW is Lincoln Park, which is a nice little uncontrolled field,
but I have no clue how to get to NYC from there.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin
http://marc.zeitlin.home.comcast.net/
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright (c) 2004

[G.R. Patterson III]

Toks Desalu wrote:
>
> In July, I will be making a cross country trip to New York City to visit a
> life-long friend. At one point, I would like fly along to Hudson River path
> to see the Statue of Liberty. I was wondering if that path is open to VFR?

The VFR corridor is open. You do need to check for TFRs. The main "gotchas" are when
the prez comes to town and when the Yankees play a home game. Dunno what will happen
when the Republican national convention is held, or when it will be held, but that'll
probably cause some trouble too.

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.

[G.R. Patterson III]

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote:
>
> There is also a permanant TFR in the direct vicinity of the
> Statue of Liberty.

I believe that's been gone for quite some time now. There are no flight restrictions
listed for New York that I can find.

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.

[Joe Johnson]

The TFR around Yankee Stadium is 3 miles and 3000 feet. I asked for flight
following & clearance into Class B down the Hudson at 3500 last week; the
controllers were very accomodating (it was Saturday afternoon and not very
busy). It was pretty cool to see big jets 500 feet above & below me.
(American 458, traffic is a Skyhawk, 12 o'clock, 2 miles, 3500 ft--report
traffic in sight!) The view is not as good from 3500 as 1000, but it was
great fun anyway.

[Andrew Gideon]

Thomas J. Paladino Jr. wrote:

> There is a self-announce procedure
> for VFR ops, and most pilots request some kind of flight following during
> the ride as well, just to be on the safe side.

These - self announce vs. flight following - are mutually exclusive (at
least at the same time). You'd self announce in the "vfr corridor" (called
by the controllers an "exclusion zone"). Fly actually in the class B, and
you can get FF.

I've done both. In fact, I did both once on a single trip: I picked up FF
starting with Teterboro tower, was handed off to LGA and stayed with them.
I went down the Hudson to somewhere around central part, turned left to
overfly the park, and then went down to the Battery. I turned back up, and
headed back up the Hudson.

Then I dropped a few hundred feet and did the Hudson part again w/o FF.

That's a significant difference: you cannot overfly Manhatten itself w/o a
clearance. At least when I did it, it was no big deal and LGA was very
accomodating. In fact, she even told me she was working nobody else at the
time (my own controller!).

> There is also a permanant TFR in the direct
> vicinity of the Statue of Liberty.

Long gone.

> And before you even attempt such a
> flight, make sure that the President isn't in town, or there isn't any
> heightened security in the city; city-wide TFRs pop up all the time.

Good advice, but don't let it scare you. These are actually pretty rare
(although with the Republican convention coming, we can expect some
turmoil). There's currently a small TFR nearby for an airshow over Jones
beach.

> As for which airport to tie-down at, there is only one uncontrolled field
> in the the vast NYC class B (Linden, NJ-- LDJ). So unless you don't mind a
> 2+hour commute into Manhattan from your tie-down, you're going to have to
> land at a controlled field (at least Class D).

Or use Linden. My club has a couple of aircraft there. While I've only
used it a few times, the experience has always been pleasant. Just have a
*lot* of patience if the wind requires a departure on 9 and you're
departing IFR.

One concern with Linden: it is not manned 24x7. Contact the FBO for more
information.

> Teterboro is the closest GA
> airport to Manhattan (like 20 minutes), but it has a tricky arrival
> procedure (especially if you were hoping for an uncontrolled field), so it
> may not be your first choice.

I believe that Linden is a short cab ride from a quick rail trip into the
city. This gets you into Midtown. I suspect that this is more convenient
for Midtown (and Downtown) than Teterboro.

Caldwell is a poor choice given ground transport unless you arrange
something ahead of time. But you can do so. They've even rental cars on
the field (last time I checked) at Mac Dac (one of the FBOs there).

You can get to Teterboro, Caldwell, or Linden w/o speaking to TRACON. But
that involves (in my opinion) extra work for a visitor. If you can get
advisories en route, and then handed off to New York, it'll make life a
little easier for you.

VFR services, though, are not always available (I listened to a TRACON
controller quickly change from light to heavy load this morning, and she -
correctly - started brushing off the VFRs). So have a backup plan Just In
Case.

- Andrew

[Gary Drescher]

"Joe Johnson" > wrote in message
m...
> It was pretty cool to see big jets 500 feet above & below me.
> (American 458, traffic is a Skyhawk, 12 o'clock, 2 miles, 3500 ft--report
> traffic in sight!)

Hm, is 500' enough separation for wake turbulence? The airliner was
presumably flying well below cruise speed.

--Gary

[Joe Johnson]

"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
news:A5Msc.58658$gr.5753238@attbi_s52...
> "Joe Johnson" > wrote in message
> m...
> > It was pretty cool to see big jets 500 feet above & below me.
> > (American 458, traffic is a Skyhawk, 12 o'clock, 2 miles, 3500
ft--report
> > traffic in sight!)
>
> Hm, is 500' enough separation for wake turbulence? The airliner was
> presumably flying well below cruise speed.
>
> --Gary
>
That one was at 3000' on approach to LGA, going opposite to my direction. I
don't think he was going much faster than I was :-)

[Andrew Gideon]

Gary Drescher wrote:

> Hm, is 500' enough separation for wake turbulence? The airliner was
> presumably flying well below cruise speed.

Approaching Colts Neck from the north, I occasionally get Newark departures
passing underneath, usually w/in 1000'. I'm shocked that ATC doesn't warn
them about wake turbulance from my 172.

- Andrew

[Gary Drescher]

"Joe Johnson" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
> news:A5Msc.58658$gr.5753238@attbi_s52...
> > "Joe Johnson" > wrote in message
> > m...
> > > It was pretty cool to see big jets 500 feet above & below me.
> > > (American 458, traffic is a Skyhawk, 12 o'clock, 2 miles, 3500
> ft--report
> > > traffic in sight!)
> >
> > Hm, is 500' enough separation for wake turbulence? The airliner was
> > presumably flying well below cruise speed.
> >
> > --Gary
> >
> That one was at 3000' on approach to LGA, going opposite to my direction.
I
> don't think he was going much faster than I was :-)

Cool. Having them 500' below you is clearly ok. But 500' above you sounds
worrisome. The AIM cautions that wake turbulence can extend 1000' below an
airliner. I've never had the experience of coming closer than that, so I
don't know firsthand what it's like.

--Gary



>
>

[Toks Desalu]

Rental car, Hotel will not be included in this trip. I will be staying at my
friend's place. On top of that, My friend will pick me up. I will have to
ask him how far he is willing to drive to pick me up. Basically, tiedown is
all I need for this trip. Rental car and hotel are not factors in airport
selection.

Toks Desalu

[Tina Marie]

In article <8SOsc.7122$eT4.3726@attbi_s54>, Gary Drescher wrote:
> "Joe Johnson" > wrote in message
> Cool. Having them 500' below you is clearly ok. But 500' above you sounds
> worrisome. The AIM cautions that wake turbulence can extend 1000' below an
> airliner. I've never had the experience of coming closer than that, so I
> don't know firsthand what it's like.

I've been warned of wake turbulance when an airliner passed 500ft over me.
737, IIRC.

Tina Marie
--
http://www.tripacerdriver.com "...One of the main causes
of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way
to indicate successful termination of their C programs." (Robert Firth)

[Andrew Gideon]

Toks Desalu wrote:

> Rental car, Hotel will not be included in this trip. I will be staying at
> my friend's place. On top of that, My friend will pick me up. I will have
> to ask him how far he is willing to drive to pick me up. Basically,
> tiedown is all I need for this trip. Rental car and hotel are not factors
> in airport selection.

Hmm. If he's driving to pick you up, then from where he is driving would
make a difference. Depending upon that, Teterboro, Westchester, Republic,
or Linden might be best (as in closest). I'd guess that Uptown Manhatten
would mean Teterboro and Downtown Manhatten would mean Linden.

- Andrew

[Andrew Gideon]

Tina Marie wrote:

> I've been warned of wake turbulance when an airliner passed 500ft over me.
> 737, IIRC.

Do you get the same warning if you're overtaking the airliner?

- Andrew

[Tina Marie]

Andrew Gideon wrote:
> Do you get the same warning if you're overtaking the airliner?

I fly a Tripacer. There's no danger of me _ever_ overtaking an airliner.

Tina Marie
--
http://www.tripacerdriver.com "...One of the main causes
of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way
to indicate successful termination of their C programs." (Robert Firth)

[Gary Drescher]

"Andrew Gideon" > wrote in message
online.com...
> Tina Marie wrote:
>
> > I've been warned of wake turbulance when an airliner passed 500ft over
me.
> > 737, IIRC.
>
> Do you get the same warning if you're overtaking the airliner?

Presumably that's even worse. The slower it's going, the more wake turblence
it generates.

--Gary

>
> - Andrew
>

[Bob Chilcoat]

You might also consider Somerset Airport (SMQ) or Central Jersey Airport
(47N). Both are reasonably close to railroads that can get you into NYC
quickly, and are outside the class B airspace. You will need to arrange for
a taxi from airport to Somerville, Raritan or Bridgewater stations. Both
airports are untowered, and have very reasonable fuel and tiedown rates.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
America

"Toks Desalu" > wrote in message
news:XlPsc.114562$iF6.10676426@attbi_s02...
> Rental car, Hotel will not be included in this trip. I will be staying at
my
> friend's place. On top of that, My friend will pick me up. I will have to
> ask him how far he is willing to drive to pick me up. Basically, tiedown
is
> all I need for this trip. Rental car and hotel are not factors in airport
> selection.
>
> Toks Desalu
>
>

[Brian Burger]

On Tue, 25 May 2004, Andrew Gideon wrote:

> Gary Drescher wrote:
>
> > Hm, is 500' enough separation for wake turbulence? The airliner was
> > presumably flying well below cruise speed.
>
> Approaching Colts Neck from the north, I occasionally get Newark departures
> passing underneath, usually w/in 1000'. I'm shocked that ATC doesn't warn
> them about wake turbulance from my 172.

A few times on very calm days I have felt wake turbulence from the 152 or
172 ahead of me on final! Tower, on one slow, still day, even issued me a
mock wake turb warning from the 152 ahead on final! :)

Heavies, though... I don't think they've got much to worry about from us
spamcans...

Brian.

[Gerald Sylvester]

> A few times on very calm days I have felt wake turbulence from the 152 or
> 172 ahead of me on final! Tower, on one slow, still day, even issued me a
> mock wake turb warning from the 152 ahead on final! :)

a year or two back some guy on this list flew into IAH with jets in
front and behind him. I remember him saying how the tower
told the 737 (?) behind him, "Continental XXX, you are 7 miles behind a
Cessna 172, caution wake turbulence."


Kind of like when the tower told me while on short final of some birds.
I didn't know what to say so I simply said, "traffic in sight."
My CFI looked at me like I was some fool but what was I supposed to
say? :)

Gerald

[Happy Dog]

"Toks Desalu" >\

< snip >

Land at Teterboro. Tell Teterboro tower that you want to do a bit of
sightseeing down the Hudson. They'll hand you off to LGA or Newark tower.
Enjoy. Call the FBOs at Teterboro. Get the numbers from AOPA. (You *are*
a member, right?) Often, either Signature or Millionair will give you a
free night's parking if you fill up. Ask them to drive you to the bus stop,
or walk if the weather's nice. It's a 15 minute hike. The bus will take
you directly to the Port Authority at 42nd and 4th. Cost is about 7 bucks.
Here's the schedule: http://www.njtransit.com/pdf/bus/T0161.pdf

Couple things:

Don't try flying IFR alone unless you're *really* quick at changing
frequencies. It's a handful.

Check for TFRs.

Use GPS. If it's busy, you won't have time to decipher the VTA.

I've done all this many times. On a clear, busy night, the number of planes
around you makes the sky look like a scene from "Close Encounters".

Le Moo
www.aerobatics.ca

[David Megginson]

Happy Dog wrote:

> Land at Teterboro. Tell Teterboro tower that you want to do a bit of
> sightseeing down the Hudson. They'll hand you off to LGA or Newark tower.
> Enjoy. Call the FBOs at Teterboro. Get the numbers from AOPA. (You *are*
> a member, right?) Often, either Signature or Millionair will give you a
> free night's parking if you fill up. Ask them to drive you to the bus stop,
> or walk if the weather's nice. It's a 15 minute hike. The bus will take
> you directly to the Port Authority at 42nd and 4th.

Isn't the Port Authority bus terminal on the west side, somewhere around
40th and 8th?


All the best,


David

[Thomas J. Paladino Jr.]

"David Megginson" > wrote in message
.cable.rogers.com...
> Happy Dog wrote:
>
> > Land at Teterboro. Tell Teterboro tower that you want to do a bit of
> > sightseeing down the Hudson. They'll hand you off to LGA or Newark
tower.
> > Enjoy. Call the FBOs at Teterboro. Get the numbers from AOPA. (You
*are*
> > a member, right?) Often, either Signature or Millionair will give you a
> > free night's parking if you fill up. Ask them to drive you to the bus
stop,
> > or walk if the weather's nice. It's a 15 minute hike. The bus will
take
> > you directly to the Port Authority at 42nd and 4th.
>
> Isn't the Port Authority bus terminal on the west side, somewhere around
> 40th and 8th?
>

LOL... yep.. there is no 4th avenue. The avenues in midtown go like this
(list is from east to west):

York
1st
2nd
3rd
Lexington
Park
Madison
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th
10th
11th

[Mateo]

Thomas J. Paladino Jr. wrote:

> LOL... yep.. there is no 4th avenue. The avenues in midtown go like this
> (list is from east to west):
>
> York
> 1st
> 2nd
> 3rd
> Lexington
> Park
> Madison
> 5th
> 6th

(Avenue of the Americas)

> 7th
> 8th
> 9th
> 10th
> 11th


Don't forget Broadway, slicing through the grid. Depending on where in
Midtown you are, there's also 12th, and a tiny bit of Dyer.

[Thomas J. Paladino Jr.]

"Mateo" > wrote in message
...
> Thomas J. Paladino Jr. wrote:
>
> > LOL... yep.. there is no 4th avenue. The avenues in midtown go like this
> > (list is from east to west):
> >
> > York
> > 1st
> > 2nd
> > 3rd
> > Lexington
> > Park
> > Madison
> > 5th
> > 6th
>
> (Avenue of the Americas)
>
> > 7th
> > 8th
> > 9th
> > 10th
> > 11th
>
>
> Don't forget Broadway, slicing through the grid. Depending on where in
> Midtown you are, there's also 12th, and a tiny bit of Dyer.

6th avenue *is* Avenue of the Americas, just like 7th is Fashion Ave.

[Joe Johnson]

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." > wrote in message
...
>
> "David Megginson" > wrote in message
> .cable.rogers.com...
> > Happy Dog wrote:
> >
> > > Land at Teterboro. Tell Teterboro tower that you want to do a bit of
> > > sightseeing down the Hudson. They'll hand you off to LGA or Newark
> tower.
> > > Enjoy. Call the FBOs at Teterboro. Get the numbers from AOPA. (You
> *are*
> > > a member, right?) Often, either Signature or Millionair will give you
a
> > > free night's parking if you fill up. Ask them to drive you to the bus
> stop,
> > > or walk if the weather's nice. It's a 15 minute hike. The bus will
> take
> > > you directly to the Port Authority at 42nd and 4th.
> >
> > Isn't the Port Authority bus terminal on the west side, somewhere around
> > 40th and 8th?
> >
>
> LOL... yep.. there is no 4th avenue. The avenues in midtown go like this
> (list is from east to west):
>
> York
> 1st
> 2nd
> 3rd
> Lexington
> Park
> Madison
> 5th
> 6th
> 7th
> 8th
> 9th
> 10th
> 11th
>
>
East End Avenue is east of York on the upper east side, from 79th street to
about 88th street. That's where Gracie Mansion is, the mayor's official
residence (and where this billionaire mayor doesn't live).

[Rosspilot]

>
>> LOL... yep.. there is no 4th avenue. The avenues in midtown go like this



There is a 4th Avenue down on the Lower East Side, however--at about 13th
Street.
Photo-Tech Camera repair is at that intersection . . . best camera repair shop
in NY.
www.Rosspilot.com

[Ron Natalie]

> >
> >> LOL... yep.. there is no 4th avenue. The avenues in midtown go like this
>
>
>
> There is a 4th Avenue down on the Lower East Side, however--at about 13th
> Street.
> Photo-Tech Camera repair is at that intersection . . . best camera repair shop
> in NY.
> www.Rosspilot.com
>
Starts below 14th street. Also don't forget Avenue A, B, and C. (York is ave A below
14th as well).

Then when you get up to Central park you have Central Park West, Columbus and Amerstam
Avenues etc... There are another two dozen or so miscellaneous N/S avenues thrown in at
various places.

>

[Thomas J. Paladino Jr.]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
> > >
> > >> LOL... yep.. there is no 4th avenue. The avenues in midtown go like
this
> >
> >
> >
> > There is a 4th Avenue down on the Lower East Side, however--at about
13th
> > Street.
> > Photo-Tech Camera repair is at that intersection . . . best camera
repair shop
> > in NY.
> > www.Rosspilot.com
> >
> Starts below 14th street. Also don't forget Avenue A, B, and C. (York
is ave A below
> 14th as well).
>
> Then when you get up to Central park you have Central Park West, Columbus
and Amerstam
> Avenues etc... There are another two dozen or so miscellaneous N/S
avenues thrown in at
> various places.
>

I said 'the avenues in *midtown*' not the lower east side or upper west
side.

[Thomas J. Paladino Jr.]

"Joe Johnson" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Thomas J. Paladino Jr." > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "David Megginson" > wrote in message
> > .cable.rogers.com...
> > > Happy Dog wrote:
> > >
> > > > Land at Teterboro. Tell Teterboro tower that you want to do a bit
of
> > > > sightseeing down the Hudson. They'll hand you off to LGA or Newark
> > tower.
> > > > Enjoy. Call the FBOs at Teterboro. Get the numbers from AOPA.
(You
> > *are*
> > > > a member, right?) Often, either Signature or Millionair will give
you
> a
> > > > free night's parking if you fill up. Ask them to drive you to the
bus
> > stop,
> > > > or walk if the weather's nice. It's a 15 minute hike. The bus will
> > take
> > > > you directly to the Port Authority at 42nd and 4th.
> > >
> > > Isn't the Port Authority bus terminal on the west side, somewhere
around
> > > 40th and 8th?
> > >
> >
> > LOL... yep.. there is no 4th avenue. The avenues in midtown go like this
> > (list is from east to west):
> >
> > York
> > 1st
> > 2nd
> > 3rd
> > Lexington
> > Park
> > Madison
> > 5th
> > 6th
> > 7th
> > 8th
> > 9th
> > 10th
> > 11th
> >
> >
> East End Avenue is east of York on the upper east side, from 79th street
to
> about 88th street. That's where Gracie Mansion is, the mayor's official
> residence (and where this billionaire mayor doesn't live).
>

Again, I said 'the avenues in *midtown*' not the upper east side.

[Joe Johnson]

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." > wrote in message
...
>
> "Joe Johnson" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Thomas J. Paladino Jr." > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "David Megginson" > wrote in message
> > > .cable.rogers.com...
> > > > Happy Dog wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Land at Teterboro. Tell Teterboro tower that you want to do a bit
> of
> > > > > sightseeing down the Hudson. They'll hand you off to LGA or
Newark
> > > tower.
> > > > > Enjoy. Call the FBOs at Teterboro. Get the numbers from AOPA.
> (You
> > > *are*
> > > > > a member, right?) Often, either Signature or Millionair will give
> you
> > a
> > > > > free night's parking if you fill up. Ask them to drive you to the
> bus
> > > stop,
> > > > > or walk if the weather's nice. It's a 15 minute hike. The bus
will
> > > take
> > > > > you directly to the Port Authority at 42nd and 4th.
> > > >
> > > > Isn't the Port Authority bus terminal on the west side, somewhere
> around
> > > > 40th and 8th?
> > > >
> > >
> > > LOL... yep.. there is no 4th avenue. The avenues in midtown go like
this
> > > (list is from east to west):
> > >
> > > York
> > > 1st
> > > 2nd
> > > 3rd
> > > Lexington
> > > Park
> > > Madison
> > > 5th
> > > 6th
> > > 7th
> > > 8th
> > > 9th
> > > 10th
> > > 11th
> > >
> > >
> > East End Avenue is east of York on the upper east side, from 79th street
> to
> > about 88th street. That's where Gracie Mansion is, the mayor's official
> > residence (and where this billionaire mayor doesn't live).
> >
>
> Again, I said 'the avenues in *midtown*' not the upper east side.
>
I know--I was just piling on :-)

[Rosspilot]

>I said 'the avenues in *midtown*' not the lower east side or upper west
>side.
>

That's right. You did. And I said:

>There is a 4th Avenue down on the Lower East Side, *however*--at about
>13th
>> > Street.

(emphasis added)

I was not contradicting you . . . merely adding useful information. :-)




www.Rosspilot.com

[G Farris]

In article >,
says...

>Even on a slow day, the NYC airspace is more crowded than anywhere else on
>earth.
>


Except Chicago.

[Kevin Darling]

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." > wrote in message >...
> LOL... yep.. there is no 4th avenue. The avenues in midtown go like this
> (list is from east to west):
> [....]

And New York is a rare city in that its avenues run north and south.

Avenues are supposed to be roads lined with trees, and the best sun
for that comes if the road runs west and east... which is the way of
most cities.

[Peter Duniho]

"Kevin Darling" > wrote in message
om...
> And New York is a rare city in that its avenues run north and south.

Rare? I don't know about that. The entire Puget Sound area uses the
convention that avenues are north/south and streets are east/west.
Practically all the cities here use that convention, including Seattle, so
I'd hardly call a city that uses that convention "rare". There must be a
hundred or more cities around here that do.

Pete

[G.R. Patterson III]

Kevin Darling wrote:
>
> And New York is a rare city in that its avenues run north and south.
>
> Avenues are supposed to be roads lined with trees, and the best sun
> for that comes if the road runs west and east... which is the way of
> most cities.

This far north, you're lucky to get any sun at all at ground level on one of the
streets at anything besides high summer. At least the avenues will get sun several
hours a day.

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

[Judah]

(Kevin Darling) wrote in
om:

> "Thomas J. Paladino Jr." > wrote in message
> >...
>> LOL... yep.. there is no 4th avenue. The avenues in midtown go like
>> this (list is from east to west):
>> [....]
>
> And New York is a rare city in that its avenues run north and south.
>
> Avenues are supposed to be roads lined with trees, and the best sun
> for that comes if the road runs west and east... which is the way of
> most cities.

Trees? In NYC? Besides the parks, I don't think so. Trees don't grow well
in the pavement between skyscrapers...

;)

[Rosspilot]

>> Avenues are supposed to be roads lined with trees, and the best sun
>> for that comes if the road runs west and east... which is the way of
>> most cities.
>
>Trees? In NYC? Besides the parks, I don't think so. Trees don't grow well
>in the pavement between skyscrapers...
>
>;)


Also true, but there are huge areas of Manhattan that have no skyscrapers . . .
and plenty of trees. The Village, Chelsea, Little Italy, Chinatown, Lower East
Side. I spend weekends in Soho--on West Broadway (runs north and south). There
are lots of trees.


www.Rosspilot.com