Flying in England for a US PPL

[John Harper]

I've written something about flying in England from the
perspective of a US pilot (albeit a Brit), it's at

www.john-a-harper.com/flying/england.htm

I'd especially be interested in any comments from UK
pilots.

John

[Dylan Smith]

In article <1085504166.619124@sj-nntpcache-3>, John Harper wrote:
> I've written something about flying in England from the
> perspective of a US pilot (albeit a Brit), it's at
>
> www.john-a-harper.com/flying/england.htm

I also have one, at http://www.dylansmith.net - I'll check yours out and
compare :-)

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[Dylan Smith]

In article <1085504166.619124@sj-nntpcache-3>, John Harper wrote:
> I've written something about flying in England from the
> perspective of a US pilot (albeit a Brit), it's at

Also, note the cost of flying depends strongly on where you live. I can
fly the Grumman at Andreas for 70 quid an hour less than the 172 you
flew (and fuel isn't any cheaper here). Also, if you're coming from the
USA, things are even more expensive right now due to the weakness of the
dollar against the pound. Some of the extra cost is that aircraft that
are rented must be on a 'Public Transport CofA' which is considerably
more expensive to keep up than a private CofA - the operating costs on a
private CofA appear to be significantly cheaper going by the hourly
rates many aircraft syndicates charge.

Also, the readback of altimeter settings - I'd say this is pretty much
mandatory in the US as well especially when flying IFR. It's pretty
important that the controller knows you're on the right setting. I've
always read back altimeter settings in the US (I lived there 7 years and
learned to fly VFR, IFR, multi, glider in Houston).

I'd also say that Radar Information Service is more the equivalent of
flight following; Flight Information Service might well be non-radar.
(Radar Advisory Service is something you might ask for when flying IMC
in class G airspace). There's a very good explanatory poster that the
CAA do (up in many flying clubs) that show the differences. Some
airfields also have reciprocal no-landing-fee agreements too (Barton had
one of these with at least 10 other airfields), and many airfields waive
all fees in the case of a diversion/emergency etc. (AOPA recently named
and shamed the ones that didn't)

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[David Megginson]

Dylan Smith wrote:

> Also, the readback of altimeter settings - I'd say this is pretty much
> mandatory in the US as well especially when flying IFR.

Not VFR, though -- I don't think that you have to read back much except
hold-short instructions (while taxiing) in Canada or the U.S.


All the best,


David

[Richard Herring]

In article >, Peter
> wrote
>
>"John Harper" > wrote
>
>>I've written something about flying in England from the
>>perspective of a US pilot (albeit a Brit), it's at
>>
>>www.john-a-harper.com/flying/england.htm
>>
>>I'd especially be interested in any comments from UK
>>pilots.
[...]
>Stapleford does have some bigger planes there but also, according to
>my maintenance engineer, has quite a history of landing gear collapses
>on twins, as well as a lot of gradual damage.

The AAIB bulletins might be a more objective source of information on
that subject... http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk. Searching on "Stapleford
undercarriage" gave 140-odd hits, but I gave up looking after the first
30 turned out to be irrelevant.

Don't forget that as an intensively-used training airfield, it has quite
a history of practically everything. Also a choice: if you don't like
grass there's always tarmac, and vice versa.

> I would not take my TB20
>there ever again.

What went wrong?

(aside to John H - the tarmac only gets used as taxiway when the active
is 04L. Most people prefer 900m of downhill grass to either half the
length of tarmac with a hedge at the end, or grass with a nasty bump if
you find you need the tarmac as well ;-)

As for the crosswind landing technique - certainly I was taught the
sideslip method, so it's not a transatlantic difference.
--
Richard Herring >

[John Harper]

> Also, the readback of altimeter settings - I'd say this is pretty much
> mandatory in the US as well especially when flying IFR. It's pretty

I've never read back a setting in the US, ever (VFR or IFR). They give them
when
you change freqs... "Roger 96S, Salinas altimeter 29.95" but I just
ack this with "96S". However I do always give altitude in a call
so they can cross check the mode C... "Oakland Center, Cessna
5296S level at 7500" or whatever.

John

[John Harper]

Thanks for the comments.

> What's N216AR?

Grob 115C. It's an OK acro trainer although I prefer
the Decathlon now that I'm flying it.

John

[Brian Burger]

On Tue, 25 May 2004, David Megginson wrote:

> Dylan Smith wrote:
>
> > Also, the readback of altimeter settings - I'd say this is pretty much
> > mandatory in the US as well especially when flying IFR.
>
> Not VFR, though -- I don't think that you have to read back much except
> hold-short instructions (while taxiing) in Canada or the U.S.

You need to read back landing clearances with holdshort instructions in
Canada; I ordinarily do, but a few months ago I just replied with my
callsign and Tower replied, "I need to hear your readback for the
tapes...".

I'd been doing TW circuits; the Tower guy & I both knew I could land the
Citabria in 3500ft, but 'the record' needed to know that I understood &
would comply. That was an interesting reminder.

Brian.

[David Megginson]

Brian Burger wrote:

> You need to read back landing clearances with holdshort instructions in
> Canada; I ordinarily do, but a few months ago I just replied with my
> callsign and Tower replied, "I need to hear your readback for the
> tapes...".

Right -- that was the one I forgot.

Has any else noticed that LAHSO seems to be less common recently, in both
Canada and the U.S.?


All the best,


David

[Richard Herring]

In article >, Peter
> wrote
>
>Richard Herring > wrote
>
>>The AAIB bulletins might be a more objective source of information on
>>that subject... http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk. Searching on "Stapleford
>>undercarriage" gave 140-odd hits, but I gave up looking after the first
>>30 turned out to be irrelevant.
>
>Point taken, but a lot of this stuff won't be reported.
>
>I had no damage but it was the hardest ride I've ever had on takeoff.
>
Which runway?

--
Richard Herring >

[Carl Orton]

John:

An interesting read.

I, too, flew in the UK last summer (during the record-breaking heat wave).

I flew out of Old Sarum. So much of your description matches so closely my
experiences. Especially the part about the "club" aspect. Old Sarum has a
white picket fenced-off area with tables, etc., set up to allow folks to
just sit and eat, drink, and watch the planes.

I was impressed with the general quality of the fleet. I flew a '67 C-172H
which was in almost immaculate condition.

About millibars: when we got in the plane, the instructor & I were going
down the preflight checklist. Although he mentioned the use of millibars and
QFE/QNH, etc., I commented something about the "oddness" of millibars. To
which he replied quite dryly, "You're in the rest of the world now. Get used
to it!"

Other differences were that when we returned, I looked for the control lock.
The instructor said they didn't use them. I then said, OK; should I just tie
it down? He said, no, there was no need. I asked about wind gusts, and he
said, "This is England!" Must not be much wind....

Only mistake I made was booking the flight for 0800. Here in TX, if you want
cool, smooth flight, it's early in the AM or late in the evening. Forgot all
about the English haze.... Fortunately it burned off quickly, but did not
make for decent photos...

Mostly just wanted an "official" UK entry in my logbook! I'd do it again in
a heartbeat.

Carl

"John Harper" > wrote in message
news:1085504166.619124@sj-nntpcache-3...
> I've written something about flying in England from the
> perspective of a US pilot (albeit a Brit), it's at
>
> www.john-a-harper.com/flying/england.htm
>
> I'd especially be interested in any comments from UK
> pilots.
>
> John
>
>

[Brian Burger]

On Tue, 25 May 2004, David Megginson wrote:

> Brian Burger wrote:
>
> > You need to read back landing clearances with holdshort instructions in
> > Canada; I ordinarily do, but a few months ago I just replied with my
> > callsign and Tower replied, "I need to hear your readback for the
> > tapes...".
>
> Right -- that was the one I forgot.
>
> Has any else noticed that LAHSO seems to be less common recently, in both
> Canada and the U.S.?

LASHO here - CYYJ, Victoria BC Canada - has always been fairly common, and
doesn't seem to be getting less so. We've got three runways, all
intersecting, so LASHO is a huge efficiency gain.

According to one of our local Nav Canada Tower guys, CYYJ has the 4th or
5th most complex ground layout of all Canadian airports...

There's a rough diagram here, if anyone's interested:
http://www.flyvfc.com/about-vfc/airport.htm
I'm not sure where/if there's an official airport diagram on the web.
Transport Canada has been much slower than the FAA in making
publications/data available over the web...

Brian.

[Dylan Smith]

In article s.com>, David
Megginson wrote:
>> Also, the readback of altimeter settings - I'd say this is pretty much
>> mandatory in the US as well especially when flying IFR.
>
> Not VFR, though -- I don't think that you have to read back much except
> hold-short instructions (while taxiing) in Canada or the U.S.

Hrm. It's probably good practise to do so all the same :-)

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[Dylan Smith]

In article >, Carl Orton wrote:
> Other differences were that when we returned, I looked for the control lock.
> The instructor said they didn't use them. I then said, OK; should I just tie
> it down? He said, no, there was no need. I asked about wind gusts, and he
> said, "This is England!" Must not be much wind....

The lack of tiedowns got me too. We tie ours down here (and put control
locks in), but especially in the winter (when we usually get at least
one storm with hurricane force winds) this can be a windy isle...

But in the summer, we never get those huge thunderstorms that are common
in Texas.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[Cub Driver]

On Tue, 25 May 2004 17:39:24 -0000, Dylan Smith
> wrote:

>I can
>fly the Grumman at Andreas for 70 quid an hour less than the 172 y

70 quid LESS?

Good grief.

Why would anyone train in the UK when you could winter in Arizona?
That 70 quid would pay your motel and the rental car.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com

[David Megginson]

Brian Burger wrote:

> According to one of our local Nav Canada Tower guys, CYYJ has the 4th or
> 5th most complex ground layout of all Canadian airports...

From what you posted, the taxiways layout is simple enough (try taxiing
around CYUL or KPHL), but I can see how the runway layout would make traffic
management a pain, since they all intersect right in the middle. D'oh!

> There's a rough diagram here, if anyone's interested:
> http://www.flyvfc.com/about-vfc/airport.htm
> I'm not sure where/if there's an official airport diagram on the web.
> Transport Canada has been much slower than the FAA in making
> publications/data available over the web...

The DAFIF has some terminal procedures online for CYYJ, but they haven't
gotten around to the airport diagram yet:

https://164.214.2.62/products/digitalaero/terminals/photolist.cfm?versionname=v0405&regionname=CANADA&airfieldname=VICTORIA_INTL__CYYJ


All the best,


David

[David Megginson]

Dylan Smith wrote:

>>Not VFR, though -- I don't think that you have to read back much except
>>hold-short instructions (while taxiing) in Canada or the U.S.

[and land-and-hold-short instructions, as someone else mentioned]

VFR readbacks (especially the long, meandering kind) tie up the frequency
pretty severely at a busy airport when tower has more important things to
worry about, like giving a landing clearance to a 737 on short final. I do
make a habit of acknowledging my initial altitude restriction when I get my
takeoff clearance (i.e. "one thousand six hundred, bravo juliet oscar") just
to make sure there's no confusion, but otherwise, I try to leave the
frequency clear for the IFR traffic.

Sometimes, I accidentally get stuck in IFR mindset when VFR and start
reading back altitudes and headings, but I usually catch myself quickly.


All the best,


David

[David CL Francis]

On Tue, 25 May 2004 at 19:22:40 in message
>, Carl Orton >
wrote:

>Other differences were that when we returned, I looked for the control lock.
>The instructor said they didn't use them. I then said, OK; should I just tie
>it down? He said, no, there was no need. I asked about wind gusts, and he
>said, "This is England!" Must not be much wind....

He was kidding you. We _can_ get very strong winds. In 1987 we had a
hurricane which did huge damage. One pilot on approach said his
instruments were showing a wind speed at about 2000 ft of 150 knots. We
do only get very small tornados though. ;-)

The club Piper Warrior my son took me for a ride in around 1989 was
destroyed on the ground in a gale a few years later.
--
David CL Francis

[Dylan Smith]

In article >, Cub Driver wrote:
> Why would anyone train in the UK when you could winter in Arizona?
> That 70 quid would pay your motel and the rental car.

It's tough to nip over to Arizona after work for a flying lesson. The
11-hour airline flight makes it impractical.

Some people (esp. those with families) can't just go away for flight
training for 4 weeks, so they must do it in their normal free time - an
hour after work, a lunchbreak, a Sunday afternoon.

It also depends where you live - the earlier example showed that London
was almost twice as expensive as where I live (hence the 70 quid cheaper
- about $120 cheaper) comment. Everything is a rip-off in London, flying
included. I have no idea why anyone in their right mind wants to live
there.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[Dylan Smith]

In article >, David CL Francis wrote:
> He was kidding you. We _can_ get very strong winds. In 1987 we had a
> hurricane which did huge damage.

Typically not in the summer though - well, at least here thunderstorms
are rare enough to be a 1 in 3 year event and they aren't very big.
(Still, we tie down the planes!)

The winter though...the 1987 hurricane force gale in the south of
England is almost an annual event here in the winter. The sea is
spectacular, the waves not only crash over the sea wall, but usually
make it over the first row of houses into their back gardens. That's why
I don't have a house on the coast :-)

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[David Cartwright]

"Carl Orton" > wrote in message
...
> Other differences were that when we returned, I looked for the control
lock.
> The instructor said they didn't use them. I then said, OK; should I just
tie
> it down? He said, no, there was no need. I asked about wind gusts, and he
> said, "This is England!" Must not be much wind....

Hmmm. There's not much wind _most of the time_ - I remember reporting to ATC
the upturned C152 at the hangar next door as my clubmates and I smugly
untied our aircraft from the large buckets of concrete holding it down ...

D.

[Cub Driver]

>We _can_ get very strong winds.

A couple years ago I went to a wedding on the Isle of Man. On my last
morning, I woke up to find roofing slates in the road.

Now, *that* is what I call a strong wind!


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com

[Paul Sengupta]

"John Harper" > wrote in message
news:1085504166.619124@sj-nntpcache-3...
> I've written something about flying in England from the
> perspective of a US pilot (albeit a Brit), it's at
>
> www.john-a-harper.com/flying/england.htm
>
> I'd especially be interested in any comments from UK
> pilots.

Hey, that Tiger Moth you have pictured, the yellow one with a
silver cowling, belongs to a friend of mine. Seeing him tonight
actually. Can't tell if it's him in the picture.

I have another friend who has a Bulldog at White Waltham.

Oh, and the magazine is "Flyer". You said "Flying" which is a
US magazine I think...

Paul

[Dylan Smith]

In article >, Cub Driver wrote:
> A couple years ago I went to a wedding on the Isle of Man. On my last
> morning, I woke up to find roofing slates in the road.
>
> Now, *that* is what I call a strong wind!

My roof has these little thingies (called 'tingles' I think) on the
bottom of each slate which hopefully prevents this happening. Especially
since the back of my house faces south west, directly at the venturi
created by Bradda Head and the hill that most of Port St. Mary is on -
right into the prevailing wind. When some winter depressions go by, the
wind in my back yard is strong enough to lean against!

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[Model Flyer]

"Paul Sengupta" > wrote in
message ...
> "John Harper" > wrote in message
> news:1085504166.619124@sj-nntpcache-3...
> > I've written something about flying in England from the
> > perspective of a US pilot (albeit a Brit), it's at
> >
> > www.john-a-harper.com/flying/england.htm
> >
> > I'd especially be interested in any comments from UK
> > pilots.
>
> Hey, that Tiger Moth you have pictured, the yellow one with a
> silver cowling, belongs to a friend of mine. Seeing him tonight
> actually. Can't tell if it's him in the picture.
>
> I have another friend who has a Bulldog at White Waltham.
>
Hey Paul, there's a beautiful Buldog down in Haverfordwest, can't
remember the reg but it's just been repainted in camoflage, when I
get my photos developed I shall let you know the reg. It's on the UK
register at the moment.

--
---
Cheers,
Jonathan Lowe.
/
don't bother me with insignificiant nonsence such as spelling,
I don't care if it spelt properly
/
Sometimes I fly and sometimes I just dream about it.
:-)


> Oh, and the magazine is "Flyer". You said "Flying" which is a
> US magazine I think...
>
> Paul
>
>

[Paul Sengupta]

"Model Flyer" > wrote in message
...
> Hey Paul, there's a beautiful Buldog down in Haverfordwest, can't
> remember the reg but it's just been repainted in camoflage, when I
> get my photos developed I shall let you know the reg. It's on the UK
> register at the moment.

Ah yes, I met up with the people dealing with that one day when
they happened to be at Swansea the same time I was. The
mechanic who imported it (it's one of the African ones...not sure
about the re-paint, may be "original") said it came across with
pylons under the wings and switches to launch the ammunition.
The CAA made him take the pylons off to get it on the UK
civil register.

I'd like to see the photo!

Paul

[B S D Chapman]

On Sun, 30 May 2004 22:07:14 +0100, Paul Sengupta
> wrote:

> "Model Flyer" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hey Paul, there's a beautiful Buldog down in Haverfordwest, can't
>> remember the reg but it's just been repainted in camoflage, when I
>> get my photos developed I shall let you know the reg. It's on the UK
>> register at the moment.
>
> Ah yes, I met up with the people dealing with that one day when
> they happened to be at Swansea the same time I was. The
> mechanic who imported it (it's one of the African ones...not sure
> about the re-paint, may be "original") said it came across with
> pylons under the wings and switches to launch the ammunition.
> The CAA made him take the pylons off to get it on the UK
> civil register.
>

There is one frequently at Oxford. The paint looks very faided, but then
that could be the original shade anyway given the origin: It's from
Botswana.

--

....And so as the little andrex puppy of time scampers onto the busy
dual-carriage way of destiny, and the extra-strong meat vindaloo of fate
confronts the toilet Out Of Order sign of eternity... I see it is time to
end this post.

[CV]

Cub Driver wrote:
> A couple years ago I went to a wedding on the Isle of Man. On my last
> morning, I woke up to find roofing slates in the road.
>
> Now, *that* is what I call a strong wind!

How about a smashed-up rowing boat lying upside down in the middle
of the street, apparently blow up there from the beach like a leaf,
about half of all trees blown over, many of them across streets,
some smashed into cars and houses, a couple of Cessna's at the
flying club (a 172 and a 152) upside down on top of each other,
despite having been tied down. All this, and more, could be seen
in Brighton on the morning of october 16, 1987.

CV

[Model Flyer]

"Paul Sengupta" > wrote in
message ...
> "Model Flyer" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hey Paul, there's a beautiful Buldog down in Haverfordwest, can't
> > remember the reg but it's just been repainted in camoflage, when
I
> > get my photos developed I shall let you know the reg. It's on the
UK
> > register at the moment.
>
> Ah yes, I met up with the people dealing with that one day when
> they happened to be at Swansea the same time I was. The
> mechanic who imported it (it's one of the African ones...not sure
> about the re-paint, may be "original") said it came across with

If that's the original paintwork, then it must have spent it's life
under wraps in a hanger, never flown etc. It's so clean that it looks
like it's just out of the factory, never flown.

> pylons under the wings and switches to launch the ammunition.
> The CAA made him take the pylons off to get it on the UK
> civil register.

I'm sure that's the one

>
> I'd like to see the photo!
>

As soon as I get the film developed I'll scan them and mail them to
you if you like, I'll let you know.

Jonathan Lowe.
Rallye 880b EI-BFR


> Paul
>
>

[Model Flyer]

"B S D Chapman" <mail-at-benchapman-dot-co-dot-uk> wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 30 May 2004 22:07:14 +0100, Paul Sengupta
> > wrote:
>
> > "Model Flyer" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Hey Paul, there's a beautiful Buldog down in Haverfordwest,
can't

> > civil register.
> >
>
> There is one frequently at Oxford. The paint looks very faided,
but then
> that could be the original shade anyway given the origin: It's
from
> Botswana.
>

It could be the same one with the paint redone or polished.




> --
>
> ...And so as the little andrex puppy of time scampers onto the busy
> dual-carriage way of destiny, and the extra-strong meat vindaloo of
fate
> confronts the toilet Out Of Order sign of eternity... I see it is
time to
> end this post.