This is what the D-Day was for...

[HECTOP]

I know this is gonna start a riot, but...

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-dday31.html

France pledges to shoot down private pilots in D-Day air space
May 31, 2004
BY BEN FENTON [Ad]

ARROMANCHES, France -- Private pilots who stray into Normandy air space
during the 60th anniversary of D-Day next weekend will be shot down, French
officials said Sunday.
With at least 16 heads of state, including President Bush, attending the
ceremonies, organizers are guarding particularly against an al-Qaida attack
from the air.
It is one of the biggest security exercises in Europe since the war.
An enormous network of radar equipment has been stretched between Deauville
and Cherbourg, with early warning aircraft already in the skies.
The aircraft will be joined this week by small, remote-controlled drones.
Advanced Crotale anti-aircraft missiles have been primed, and two squadrons
of Mirage 2000 fighters are stationed nearby.
The French ministry of defense has spared no expense. It has established a
temporary air base at Carpiquet, outside the city of Caen, as the hub of its
defenses.
There, more than 800 soldiers will maintain round-the-clock surveillance,
backed by more than 50 military helicopters.
A spokesman for the 120-acre camp said: "The dangers are multiple, from a
hijacked airliner being crashed into the stands at the main international
ceremony at Arromanches to a tiny bomb being detonated remotely.
"But we are stretching an impenetrable fabric of protection above Normandy."
At sea, fishermen and pleasure craft have been banned from the Seine Bay
that stretches along the beaches code named Utah, Omaha, Gold, Juno and
Sword on June 6, 1944.
A French carrier, Charles de Gaulle, and an American carrier, George
Washington, will be patrolling the bay, which will also be swept for mines.
On land, more than 9,000 French troops are arriving this week, supplementing
the 6,300 gendarmes and 2,300 police officers already on duty.
Arromanches' 534 residents have been told that they must either stay indoors
throughout next Sunday or leave the area.

Daily Telegraph


HECTOP
PP-ASEL-IA
http://www.maxho.com
maxho_at_maxho.com

[Shiver Me Timbers]

> HECTOP > wrote:

> I know this is gonna start a riot, but...

Why would it start a riot.

Sad reflection perhaps, but prudent, logical, common sense
in todays political climate.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "HECTOP" > said:
>I know this is gonna start a riot, but...

Why? Do you think the protection around a gathering of 16 heads of state
in the US would be any less onerous and threatening? I'm willing to bet
there will be more protection around the two party conventions this summer.



--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
They thought that faxing one's butt was bad - just wait till they hear
about blurry, pixilated, mpeg artifacted live porn by phone!
-- Geoff Lane contemplates the 3G future

[HECTOP]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
> In a previous article, "HECTOP" > said:
>>I know this is gonna start a riot, but...
> Why?

Because this is rec.aviation.piloting after all! Debby! Deeeeebbbbyyyyyy!!!

> Do you think the protection around a gathering of 16 heads of state

Some of them can hardly be called _heads_....


HECTOP
PP-ASEL-IA
http://www.maxho.com
maxho_at_maxho.com

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "HECTOP" > said:
>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
>> Do you think the protection around a gathering of 16 heads of state
>
>Some of them can hardly be called _heads_....

Considering a "head" has a brain in it, I'd have to agree. But probably
not about the same "heads" you would think that about.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World
War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
-- Albert Einstein

[Duck Dog]

On Mon, 31 May 2004 15:33:45 -0400, "HECTOP" >
wrote:

>"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
>> In a previous article, "HECTOP" > said:
>>>I know this is gonna start a riot, but...
> > Why?
>
>Because this is rec.aviation.piloting after all! Debby! Deeeeebbbbyyyyyy!!!
>
>> Do you think the protection around a gathering of 16 heads of state
>
>Some of them can hardly be called _heads_....

There are several slang definitions of "head" that could apply, tho'.

>
>HECTOP
>PP-ASEL-IA
>http://www.maxho.com
>maxho_at_maxho.com
>

[G Farris]

Well, well, well . . .
Leave it to the newspapers and television networks to inform us of such
things.

The truth is, to date, there is not a single NOTAM, AIP SUP (as they call them
here) or TFR posted for that day. I am holding my breath, but as the day
approaches there has not been a single GA restriction posted through official
channels related to those events. There is one in effect close to there
related to the Le Mans automobile race, and another for a military exercise,
but as a full subscriber to all the publications, as far as I am concerned I
can hire a 172 and fly right over them.

Not that I would think of doing so, but there are official channels in
existance to notify pilots of temporary restrictions. As long as these have
not been used, we can only assume either the newspaper report cited here is in
error, or the civil aviation authority has been seriously remiss in their duty
to inform pilots. You cannot expect pilots to glean vital flight information
just by reading the evening paper.

G Faris

[HECTOP]

"Duck Dog" > wrote in message
> There are several slang definitions of "head" that could apply, tho'.

Lou Reed?


HECTOP
PP-ASEL-IA
http://www.maxho.com
maxho_at_maxho.com

[G Farris]

CORRECTION :
After posting the previous message, I went back to double-check my facts.
I should have done it before, because I was wrong. There is a very specific
NOTAM, published 6 May that details several Temporary Restricted Areas and a
few Temporary Prohibited Areas. There are rules for avoidance, and even rules
for interception if one is found in the wrong place at the wrong time. It
doesn't say they'll shoot you down, of course, but it does strongly imply that
it's in your interest to comply meticulously. They also say infractions could
be fined 15000 to 45000 Euros and up to six months in jail, plus impounding
the aircraft.

I have mentioned to several pilots over the past days that I was surprised not
to see any NOTAMS for those days - They must have been shaking their heads
thinking "What's this poor fool on about . . ."

Anyway, my apologies for the incorrect information.
For any who want to see the NOTAM, it's here :
http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/dossier/supaipmetro/SUP_2004_45_FR.pdf

G Faris

[John Gaquin]

"HECTOP" > wrote in message news:KrLuc.23209
>
> France pledges to shoot down private pilots in D-Day air space

I'll have to do some checking. Would this be the first time the French
have managed to shoot down any plane, anywhere? :-)

[HECTOP]

"John Gaquin" > wrote in message
> I'll have to do some checking. Would this be the first time the French
> have managed to shoot down any plane, anywhere? :-)

The French Government announced today that in light of the Madrid bombing,
France has raised its terror alert level from "run" to "hide." The only two
higher levels in France are "surrender" and "collaborate."

--
HECTOP
PP-ASEL-IA
http://www.maxho.com
maxho_at_maxho.com

[C J Campbell]

"HECTOP" > wrote in message
. ..
> I know this is gonna start a riot, but...
>
> http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-dday31.html
>
> France pledges to shoot down private pilots in D-Day air space
> May 31, 2004

Well, they will have to do a lot better than the Allies did on the original
D-Day. :-)

Two German planes managed to strafe the whole beach and get away unscathed,
despite what was probably the most massive air cover in the history of
warfare.

[Skysurfer]

HECTOP wrote :

> "John Gaquin" > wrote in message
>> I'll have to do some checking. Would this be the first time the
>> French have managed to shoot down any plane, anywhere? :-)
>
> The French Government announced today that in light of the Madrid
> bombing, France has raised its terror alert level from "run" to
> "hide." The only two higher levels in France are "surrender" and
> "collaborate."

One (between others) thing France has managed to do :
http://www.specialoperations.com/Counterterrorism/gign.html

--
"The French Were Right" (The National Journal)
http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2003/1107nj1.htm

[HECTOP]

"Skysurfer" > wrote in message
> One (between others) thing France has managed to do :
> http://www.specialoperations.com/Counterterrorism/gign.html

France has done a lot of things throughout the history, including supporting
this nation through the Revolutionary War (for their own reasons of course),
but that does mean we can't but their chops every now and then ;-)

HECTOP
PP-ASEL-IA
http://www.maxho.com
maxho_at_maxho.com

[Dave Stadt]

Will the French surrender to the GA pilot before or after they botch their
attempt at launching a missile?

"HECTOP" > wrote in message
. ..
> I know this is gonna start a riot, but...
>
> http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-dday31.html
>
> France pledges to shoot down private pilots in D-Day air space
> May 31, 2004
> BY BEN FENTON [Ad]
>
> ARROMANCHES, France -- Private pilots who stray into Normandy air space
> during the 60th anniversary of D-Day next weekend will be shot down,
French
> officials said Sunday.
> With at least 16 heads of state, including President Bush, attending the
> ceremonies, organizers are guarding particularly against an al-Qaida
attack
> from the air.
> It is one of the biggest security exercises in Europe since the war.
> An enormous network of radar equipment has been stretched between
Deauville
> and Cherbourg, with early warning aircraft already in the skies.
> The aircraft will be joined this week by small, remote-controlled drones.
> Advanced Crotale anti-aircraft missiles have been primed, and two
squadrons
> of Mirage 2000 fighters are stationed nearby.
> The French ministry of defense has spared no expense. It has established a
> temporary air base at Carpiquet, outside the city of Caen, as the hub of
its
> defenses.
> There, more than 800 soldiers will maintain round-the-clock surveillance,
> backed by more than 50 military helicopters.
> A spokesman for the 120-acre camp said: "The dangers are multiple, from a
> hijacked airliner being crashed into the stands at the main international
> ceremony at Arromanches to a tiny bomb being detonated remotely.
> "But we are stretching an impenetrable fabric of protection above
Normandy."
> At sea, fishermen and pleasure craft have been banned from the Seine Bay
> that stretches along the beaches code named Utah, Omaha, Gold, Juno and
> Sword on June 6, 1944.
> A French carrier, Charles de Gaulle, and an American carrier, George
> Washington, will be patrolling the bay, which will also be swept for
mines.
> On land, more than 9,000 French troops are arriving this week,
supplementing
> the 6,300 gendarmes and 2,300 police officers already on duty.
> Arromanches' 534 residents have been told that they must either stay
indoors
> throughout next Sunday or leave the area.
>
> Daily Telegraph
>
>
> HECTOP
> PP-ASEL-IA
> http://www.maxho.com
> maxho_at_maxho.com
>
>
>

[Bob Fry]

Skysurfer > writes:

> One (between others) thing France has managed to do :
> http://www.specialoperations.com/Counterterrorism/gign.html

And another thing the French managed to do recently is avoid helping
to create another terrorist state in the Middle East.

[Judah]

It's sad that we need more military power to protect our historic sites from
the terrorists than what it took to secure them in the first place...

"HECTOP" > wrote in
:

> I know this is gonna start a riot, but...
>
> http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-dday31.html
>
> France pledges to shoot down private pilots in D-Day air space

[Morgans]

"Bob Fry" > wrote

> And another thing the French managed to do recently is avoid helping
> to create another terrorist state in the Middle East.

?????????????


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.692 / Virus Database: 453 - Release Date: 5/28/2004

[George Z. Bush]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Fry" > wrote
>
> > And another thing the French managed to do recently is avoid helping
> > to create another terrorist state in the Middle East.
>
> ?????????????

The reference is obviously to Iraq, where many people expect that, since the
Shiite faction comprise a majority of Iraqis, a fundamentalist Islamic nation
will eventually evolve from our ill-considered efforts to create a democratic
form of government in the Middle East.

George Z.

[tim gueguen]

"John Gaquin" > wrote in message
...
>
> "HECTOP" > wrote in message news:KrLuc.23209
> >
> > France pledges to shoot down private pilots in D-Day air space
>
> I'll have to do some checking. Would this be the first time the French
> have managed to shoot down any plane, anywhere? :-)
>
An odd thing for someone with a last name like Gaquin to be saying.

tim gueguen 101867

[John Gaquin]

"tim gueguen" > wrote in message news:k8Suc.636958
> >
> An odd thing for someone with a last name like Gaquin to be saying.

Not really. have to go back over 400 years to find the french trace.

[Shiver Me Timbers]

> John Gaquin > wrote:

> Not really. have to go back over 400 years to find the french trace.

Must be tough to be ashamed of your heritage.

[Peter Gottlieb]

"Shiver Me Timbers" > wrote in message
...
>
> Must be tough to be ashamed of your heritage.

Do tell.

[AES/newspost]

In article >,
"George Z. Bush" > wrote:

> "Morgans" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Bob Fry" > wrote
> >
> > > And another thing the French managed to do recently is avoid helping
> > > to create another terrorist state in the Middle East.
> >
> > ?????????????
>
> The reference is obviously to Iraq, where many people expect that, since the
> Shiite faction comprise a majority of Iraqis, a fundamentalist Islamic nation
> will eventually evolve from our ill-considered efforts to create a democratic
> form of government in the Middle East.

The French would obviously have much preferred to keep on doing
lucrative business deals [1] with the, shall we say, "pre-terrorist"
state that Iraq was prior to our "ill-considered efforts" [2].

[1] Lucrative for French businesses and French politicians, as I think
we now are aware.

[2] "Ill-planned" or "ill-implemented" or "ill-carried-through" efforts
might be a more accurate description).

[Newps]

That's funny, the French shoot at somebody. Hmmmm, let's see.Guns, where
are the guns?


"HECTOP" > wrote in message
. ..
> I know this is gonna start a riot, but...
>
> http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-dday31.html
>
> France pledges to shoot down private pilots in D-Day air space
> May 31, 2004
> BY BEN FENTON [Ad]
>
> ARROMANCHES, France -- Private pilots who stray into Normandy air space
> during the 60th anniversary of D-Day next weekend will be shot down,
French
> officials said Sunday.
> With at least 16 heads of state, including President Bush, attending the
> ceremonies, organizers are guarding particularly against an al-Qaida
attack
> from the air.
> It is one of the biggest security exercises in Europe since the war.
> An enormous network of radar equipment has been stretched between
Deauville
> and Cherbourg, with early warning aircraft already in the skies.
> The aircraft will be joined this week by small, remote-controlled drones.
> Advanced Crotale anti-aircraft missiles have been primed, and two
squadrons
> of Mirage 2000 fighters are stationed nearby.
> The French ministry of defense has spared no expense. It has established a
> temporary air base at Carpiquet, outside the city of Caen, as the hub of
its
> defenses.
> There, more than 800 soldiers will maintain round-the-clock surveillance,
> backed by more than 50 military helicopters.
> A spokesman for the 120-acre camp said: "The dangers are multiple, from a
> hijacked airliner being crashed into the stands at the main international
> ceremony at Arromanches to a tiny bomb being detonated remotely.
> "But we are stretching an impenetrable fabric of protection above
Normandy."
> At sea, fishermen and pleasure craft have been banned from the Seine Bay
> that stretches along the beaches code named Utah, Omaha, Gold, Juno and
> Sword on June 6, 1944.
> A French carrier, Charles de Gaulle, and an American carrier, George
> Washington, will be patrolling the bay, which will also be swept for
mines.
> On land, more than 9,000 French troops are arriving this week,
supplementing
> the 6,300 gendarmes and 2,300 police officers already on duty.
> Arromanches' 534 residents have been told that they must either stay
indoors
> throughout next Sunday or leave the area.
>
> Daily Telegraph
>
>
> HECTOP
> PP-ASEL-IA
> http://www.maxho.com
> maxho_at_maxho.com
>
>
>

[news.free.fr]

Le 01/06/2004, Newps a supposé :
> That's funny, the French shoot at somebody. Hmmmm, let's see.Guns, where
> are the guns?
>
>
> "HECTOP" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> I know this is gonna start a riot, but...
>>
>> http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-dday31.html
>>
>> France pledges to shoot down private pilots in D-Day air space
>> May 31, 2004
>> BY BEN FENTON [Ad]
>>
>> ARROMANCHES, France -- Private pilots who stray into Normandy air space
>> during the 60th anniversary of D-Day next weekend will be shot down, French
>> officials said Sunday.
>> With at least 16 heads of state, including President Bush, attending the
>> ceremonies, organizers are guarding particularly against an al-Qaida attack
>> from the air.
>> It is one of the biggest security exercises in Europe since the war.
>> An enormous network of radar equipment has been stretched between Deauville
>> and Cherbourg, with early warning aircraft already in the skies.
>> The aircraft will be joined this week by small, remote-controlled drones.
>> Advanced Crotale anti-aircraft missiles have been primed, and two squadrons
>> of Mirage 2000 fighters are stationed nearby.
>> The French ministry of defense has spared no expense. It has established a
>> temporary air base at Carpiquet, outside the city of Caen, as the hub of its
>> defenses.
>> There, more than 800 soldiers will maintain round-the-clock surveillance,
>> backed by more than 50 military helicopters.
>> A spokesman for the 120-acre camp said: "The dangers are multiple, from a
>> hijacked airliner being crashed into the stands at the main international
>> ceremony at Arromanches to a tiny bomb being detonated remotely.
>> "But we are stretching an impenetrable fabric of protection above Normandy."
>> At sea, fishermen and pleasure craft have been banned from the Seine Bay
>> that stretches along the beaches code named Utah, Omaha, Gold, Juno and
>> Sword on June 6, 1944.
>> A French carrier, Charles de Gaulle, and an American carrier, George
>> Washington, will be patrolling the bay, which will also be swept for mines.
>> On land, more than 9,000 French troops are arriving this week, supplementing
>> the 6,300 gendarmes and 2,300 police officers already on duty.
>> Arromanches' 534 residents have been told that they must either stay indoors
>> throughout next Sunday or leave the area.
>>
>> Daily Telegraph
>>
>>
>> HECTOP
>> PP-ASEL-IA
>> http://www.maxho.com
>> maxho_at_maxho.com

Il n'y a décidement pas de limites à la connerie anglo-saxone...

--
Ceci est une signature automatique de MesNews.
Site : http://mesnews.no-ip.com

[HECTOP]

"news.free.fr" > wrote
> Il n'y a decidement pas de limites a la connerie anglo-saxone...

Un autre lache anonyme de France, comment etonnant, oh !

HECTOP
PP-ASEL-IA
http://www.maxho.com
maxho_at_maxho.com

[S Green]

"AES/newspost" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "George Z. Bush" > wrote:
>
> > "Morgans" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Bob Fry" > wrote
> > >
> > > > And another thing the French managed to do recently is avoid helping
> > > > to create another terrorist state in the Middle East.
> > >
> > > ?????????????
> >
> > The reference is obviously to Iraq, where many people expect that, since
the
> > Shiite faction comprise a majority of Iraqis, a fundamentalist Islamic
nation
> > will eventually evolve from our ill-considered efforts to create a
democratic
> > form of government in the Middle East.
>
> The French would obviously have much preferred to keep on doing
> lucrative business deals [1] with the, shall we say, "pre-terrorist"
> state that Iraq was prior to our "ill-considered efforts" [2].
>
> [1] Lucrative for French businesses and French politicians, as I think
> we now are aware.
>
> [2] "Ill-planned" or "ill-implemented" or "ill-carried-through" efforts
> might be a more accurate description).

mean like Cheney giving Billions of dollars of business to his chums at
Halliburton, whets the difference apart from Cheney is ripping off the US
tax payer.

[Gunnar]

The French "invented" air to air kills with the shoot down of a german on
the 8. october 1914
The french pilot was Sergant Frantz.


So... No it it would not be the first kill.... Second perhaps ? :-)


"John Gaquin" > skrev i melding
...
>
> "HECTOP" > wrote in message news:KrLuc.23209
> >
> > France pledges to shoot down private pilots in D-Day air space
>
> I'll have to do some checking. Would this be the first time the French
> have managed to shoot down any plane, anywhere? :-)
>
>

[Gunnar]

A bit on the side but a small reflection:

Is not France a member of the International Crime Court ?
Do they not have an obligation to arrest suspected warcriminals like Bush
and Blair ? So should they not simply stay at home to avoid a moral problem
of NOT arresting them?
They should after all be arrested... but in the real world this would start
WWIII...


?
G


"HECTOP" > skrev i melding
. ..
> I know this is gonna start a riot, but...
>
> http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-dday31.html
>
> France pledges to shoot down private pilots in D-Day air space
> May 31, 2004
> BY BEN FENTON [Ad]
>
> ARROMANCHES, France -- Private pilots who stray into Normandy air space
> during the 60th anniversary of D-Day next weekend will be shot down,
French
> officials said Sunday.
> With at least 16 heads of state, including President Bush, attending the
> ceremonies, organizers are guarding particularly against an al-Qaida
attack
> from the air.
> It is one of the biggest security exercises in Europe since the war.
> An enormous network of radar equipment has been stretched between
Deauville
> and Cherbourg, with early warning aircraft already in the skies.
> The aircraft will be joined this week by small, remote-controlled drones.
> Advanced Crotale anti-aircraft missiles have been primed, and two
squadrons
> of Mirage 2000 fighters are stationed nearby.
> The French ministry of defense has spared no expense. It has established a
> temporary air base at Carpiquet, outside the city of Caen, as the hub of
its
> defenses.
> There, more than 800 soldiers will maintain round-the-clock surveillance,
> backed by more than 50 military helicopters.
> A spokesman for the 120-acre camp said: "The dangers are multiple, from a
> hijacked airliner being crashed into the stands at the main international
> ceremony at Arromanches to a tiny bomb being detonated remotely.
> "But we are stretching an impenetrable fabric of protection above
Normandy."
> At sea, fishermen and pleasure craft have been banned from the Seine Bay
> that stretches along the beaches code named Utah, Omaha, Gold, Juno and
> Sword on June 6, 1944.
> A French carrier, Charles de Gaulle, and an American carrier, George
> Washington, will be patrolling the bay, which will also be swept for
mines.
> On land, more than 9,000 French troops are arriving this week,
supplementing
> the 6,300 gendarmes and 2,300 police officers already on duty.
> Arromanches' 534 residents have been told that they must either stay
indoors
> throughout next Sunday or leave the area.
>
> Daily Telegraph
>
>
> HECTOP
> PP-ASEL-IA
> http://www.maxho.com
> maxho_at_maxho.com
>
>
>

[C J Campbell]

"Shiver Me Timbers" > wrote in message
...
> > John Gaquin > wrote:
>
> > Not really. have to go back over 400 years to find the french trace.
>
> Must be tough to be ashamed of your heritage.

Even worse to not even have one, eh Timbers?

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Bob Fry" > wrote in message
...
> Skysurfer > writes:
>
> > One (between others) thing France has managed to do :
> > http://www.specialoperations.com/Counterterrorism/gign.html
>
> And another thing the French managed to do recently is avoid helping
> to create another terrorist state in the Middle East.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Oh, Bob, you're a riot!

[Skysurfer]

AES/newspost wrote :

> The French would obviously have much preferred to keep on doing
> lucrative business deals [1] with the, shall we say,
> "pre-terrorist" state that Iraq was prior to our "ill-considered
> efforts" [2].
>
> [1] Lucrative for French businesses and French politicians, as I
> think we now are aware.

"No more persuasive is the widely voiced (in the U.S.) argument that
the French were defending wide-reaching and profitable commercial
relationships with Saddam's regime. The truth is that France enjoyed
minor economic ties with Saddam. Under the United Nations'
now-defunct Oil for Food program with Saddam's Iraq, the French were
only the 13th-largest participant. The U.S. under that program
bought more than 50 percent of Iraq's total oil exports, the French
8 percent."

See :

"The French Were Right" (The National Journal)
http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2003/1107nj1.htm

[Skysurfer]

Bob Fry wrote :

> Skysurfer > writes:
>
>> One (between others) thing France has managed to do :
>> http://www.specialoperations.com/Counterterrorism/gign.html
>
> And another thing the French managed to do recently is avoid
> helping to create another terrorist state in the Middle East.

"France was the only country, other than the United States, to
conduct air strikes against the Taliban in Afghanistan, with their
Mirage jets and Super Etenard fighters hitting more than 30 targets
during Operation Anaconda in March 2002. The French enthusiastically
backed the Afghanistan war, breaking with Washington only on the
Iraq question."

See : "The French Were Right" (The National Journal)
http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2003/1107nj1.htm

[Dave Stadt]

"Gunnar" > wrote in message
...
> The French "invented" air to air kills with the shoot down of a german on
> the 8. october 1914. The french pilot was Sergant Frantz.

An accident no doubt.

[John Gaquin]

"Shiver Me Timbers" > wrote in message
news:310520042112065225%>
> Must be tough to be ashamed of your heritage.

I wouldn't know.

[Jay Honeck]

> They should after all be arrested... but in the real world this would
start
> WWIII...

What a disturbingly warped view of the world.

This bizarre post casts a sliver of light on the mind-set that created (and
continues to create) the terrorists -- better than any deliberate
explanation ever could.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[AES/newspost]

In article >,
Skysurfer > wrote:

> AES/newspost wrote :
>
> > The French would obviously have much preferred to keep on doing
> > lucrative business deals [1] with the, shall we say,
> > "pre-terrorist" state that Iraq was prior to our "ill-considered
> > efforts" [2].
> >
> > [1] Lucrative for French businesses and French politicians, as I
> > think we now are aware.
>
> "No more persuasive is the widely voiced (in the U.S.) argument that
> the French were defending wide-reaching and profitable commercial
> relationships with Saddam's regime. The truth is that France enjoyed
> minor economic ties with Saddam. Under the United Nations'
> now-defunct Oil for Food program with Saddam's Iraq, the French were
> only the 13th-largest participant. The U.S. under that program
> bought more than 50 percent of Iraq's total oil exports, the French
> 8 percent."
>

But the relevant question is not who _bought_ the oil, it's where (and
how) did the Iraqis _spend_ the proceeds from those purchases? And a
fair amount of info on that has come out since the occupation.

[Memorable quote from Christopher Hitchens as one of four participants
in a quite well done public debate at UCLA just days before Bush gave
the orders to go: "Saddam Hussein never failed to offer a bribe -- and
Jacques Chirac never failed to take one."]

[David Reinhart]

And the veterans who landed are going to be excluded from visiting the
invasion beaches because of the security. The politicians should stay
home and let the vets have their day. Almost half a million won't be
here next year.

Dave Reinhart


Shiver Me Timbers wrote:

> > HECTOP > wrote:
>
> > I know this is gonna start a riot, but...
>
> Why would it start a riot.
>
> Sad reflection perhaps, but prudent, logical, common sense
> in todays political climate.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, said:
>And the veterans who landed are going to be excluded from visiting the
>invasion beaches because of the security. The politicians should stay

Can you point me to a cite for that? I can't find it on any of the
reputable news sources - or even Fox.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"It's free they say, if you can get it to run, the geeks say `hey, that's half
the fun', but I've got a girlfriend and things to get done, the Linux OS sucks"
- Three Dead Trolls In A Baggie, "Every OS Sucks" http://www.deadtroll.com/

[Bob Fry]

AES/newspost > writes:

> [2] "Ill-planned" or "ill-implemented" or "ill-carried-through" efforts
> might be a more accurate description).

An "Ill-considered" plan cannot be made good by carrying it out well.
Thus Ill-considered is perfectly accurate, given Shrub's arrogant snub
of the UN inspections and the UN Security Council, his faith-based
attitude towards "intelligence" that supported his views, and so on
and so forth.

More bumper stickers:

Bush: Born on 3rd base, thought he hit a triple.

Clinton lied, nobody died.

[Pete]

"Bob Fry" > wrote
>
> Clinton lied, nobody died.

Does that 'nobody' include:
the 6 dead in the first WTC bombing
the 17 servicemen on the USS Cole
the 11 dead in Nairobi, and those injured in Dar es Salaam
the 19 dead at Khobar Towers

and all the others who have died, been injured, or kidnapped at the hands of
terrorists over the years

Amazing that people actually have such short memories. Decades...centuries,
people. Not just Bush.

Pete

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Pete" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Fry" > wrote
> >
> > Clinton lied, nobody died.
>
> Does that 'nobody' include:
> the 6 dead in the first WTC bombing
> the 17 servicemen on the USS Cole
> the 11 dead in Nairobi, and those injured in Dar es Salaam
> the 19 dead at Khobar Towers
>
> and all the others who have died, been injured, or kidnapped at the hands
of
> terrorists over the years

Nor does it include the nearly 100 in Waco, nor the ones in Somalia, nor the
3000 that died in 9/11 because Bubba didn't have the balls to do his primary
job for his entire term and considered the Presidency an ego/power trip
rather than a major responsibility. (Did any other US President aspire to
the job from the time he was 14 years old?)

It doesn;t even take into the account those who died fighting forest fires
because of Bubba's nose up the environmentalnut's ass.

>
> Amazing that people actually have such short memories.

Or such convenient memories?

> Decades...centuries,
> people. Not just Bush.

Actions have consequences, and not only _direct_ consequences. Statists of
the liberal sort can't (won't ?) comprehend that.

[Thomas Borchert]

Jay,

> This bizarre post casts a sliver of light on the mind-set that created (and
> continues to create) the terrorists
>

Oh, bull! Your comment is in the line of the worst of the "be with us or be
our enemy" rethoric Bush used after 9/11. Just look at Abu Graib (sp?) to see
where that got you (as a nation, not personally). THAT'S what is creating
terrorists (and I don't mean the people that have committed the war crimes
there, although they could be counted in)!

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Ash Wyllie]

Tom Sixkiller opined

>"Pete" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "Bob Fry" > wrote
>> >
>> > Clinton lied, nobody died.
>>
>> Does that 'nobody' include:
>> the 6 dead in the first WTC bombing
>> the 17 servicemen on the USS Cole
>> the 11 dead in Nairobi, and those injured in Dar es Salaam
>> the 19 dead at Khobar Towers
>>
>> and all the others who have died, been injured, or kidnapped at the hands
>of
>> terrorists over the years

>Nor does it include the nearly 100 in Waco, nor the ones in Somalia, nor the
>3000 that died in 9/11 because Bubba didn't have the balls to do his primary
>job for his entire term and considered the Presidency an ego/power trip
>rather than a major responsibility. (Did any other US President aspire to
>the job from the time he was 14 years old?)

>It doesn;t even take into the account those who died fighting forest fires
>because of Bubba's nose up the environmentalnut's ass.

Or those Serbs, and a couple of Chinese diplomats in the Kosovo bombing
campaign.

>>
>> Amazing that people actually have such short memories.

>Or such convenient memories?

>> Decades...centuries,
>> people. Not just Bush.

>Actions have consequences, and not only _direct_ consequences. Statists of
>the liberal sort can't (won't ?) comprehend that.







-ash
Cthulhu for President!
Why vote for a lesser evil?

[The Enlightenment]

David Reinhart > wrote in message >...
> And the veterans who landed are going to be excluded from visiting the
> invasion beaches because of the security. The politicians should stay
> home and let the vets have their day.

> Almost half a million won't be here next year.

That sounds fair. The European derived races will be halved in less
than 50 years thanks to their victory.

Unintentional but true. This was a war not worth fighting or even
winning.


>
> Dave Reinhart
>
>
> Shiver Me Timbers wrote:
>
> > > HECTOP > wrote:
>
> > > I know this is gonna start a riot, but...
> >
> > Why would it start a riot.
> >
> > Sad reflection perhaps, but prudent, logical, common sense
> > in todays political climate.

[Michael 182]

"The Enlightenment" > wrote in message
om...
> David Reinhart > wrote in message
>...
> > And the veterans who landed are going to be excluded from visiting the
> > invasion beaches because of the security. The politicians should stay
> > home and let the vets have their day.
>
> > Almost half a million won't be here next year.
>
> That sounds fair. The European derived races will be halved in less
> than 50 years thanks to their victory.
>
> Unintentional but true. This was a war not worth fighting or even
> winning.

I think I'm going to be sick...

Michael

[Greg Hennessy]

On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 14:31:07 GMT, "Michael 182"
> wrote:


>> Unintentional but true. This was a war not worth fighting or even
>> winning.
>
>I think I'm going to be sick...
>

What did you expect, our friend here is a well known australian neo nazi.



greg

--
"vying with Platt for the largest gap
between capability and self perception"

[G.R. Patterson III]

Greg Hennessy wrote:
>
> What did you expect, our friend here is a well known australian neo nazi.

1. He's not *my* friend, though he may be yours.
2. He's not well known in rec.aviation.piloting (and let's hope it stays that way).

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

[Gunnar]

Why is it so twisted to demand that everyone should be held accountable for
their actions ? No matter where they are from ?
An illigal war was after all started with (known) false accusations and ca.
10K people has been killed as a result. Bush should be held accountable !



"Jay Honeck" > skrev i melding
news:866vc.32406$eY2.23666@attbi_s02...
> > They should after all be arrested... but in the real world this would
> start
> > WWIII...
>
> What a disturbingly warped view of the world.
>
> This bizarre post casts a sliver of light on the mind-set that created
(and
> continues to create) the terrorists -- better than any deliberate
> explanation ever could.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[Newps]

"Greg Hennessy" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 14:31:07 GMT, "Michael 182"
> > wrote:
>
>
> >> Unintentional but true. This was a war not worth fighting or even
> >> winning.
> >
> >I think I'm going to be sick...
> >
>
> What did you expect, our friend here is a well known australian neo nazi.
>



Not that well known. Never heard of her.

[The Enlightenment]

"Michael 182" > wrote in message news:<Kwlvc.41294$Ly.16031@attbi_s01>...
> "The Enlightenment" > wrote in message
> om...
> > David Reinhart > wrote in message
> >...
> > > And the veterans who landed are going to be excluded from visiting the
> > > invasion beaches because of the security. The politicians should stay
> > > home and let the vets have their day.
>
> > > Almost half a million won't be here next year.
> >
> > That sounds fair. The European derived races will be halved in less
> > than 50 years thanks to their victory.
> >
> > Unintentional but true. This was a war not worth fighting or even
> > winning.
>
> I think I'm going to be sick...

So you should be. The victory was at the very best wasted in
subsequent years unfortuntely so therefore were all the sacrifices.
Those d-day soldiers (4 of june not 6th as I recall) won't have any
descendents: whites will be a disempowered and possibly despised
minority in most of the west within 50 years, they will almost
certainly still be paying the costs and debilitations of affirmitive
action, they will be demographicaly, culturaly and genetically
effectively non existent in 100 but most certainly "Kurdified": unable
to determin even what their children are taught.

Is that why any of our fathers died? Not from the vets I've spoken
to.


************************

The men of Britain who died in the event known as D-Day risked their
lives
for one simple reason.
Which was:
-----------------------------
To preserve from foreign domination an intensely law-abiding land
whose
people had a strong sense of unity and identity.
These men were willing to die because of a patriotism arising from the
qualities of the land and its people - and also a history of the land
and
its people they all knew about and felt proud about.
-----------------------------
The tenacity and endurance of soldiers and civilians alike, at that
time,
attests to the pride and morale the identification with their country
generated.
Those who took part in the D-Day event and its immediate aftermath had
no
other reasons in their mind but that stated above.
The ideas about saving "persecuted minorities" was one which arose
some
years after the war and was something which they, at the time of
D-Day,
would not have recognised.
-----------------------------
The details of one such person involved in the D-Day landing was given
in
the Daily Telegraph, of Monday May 31st.
It told of Corporal Sidney Bates who, on the 6th August 1944, took up
a
machine gun and - through a hail of bullets - attacked an enemy
entrenchment
to save his comrades from possible annihilation.
He was seriously wounded three times in the process and died two days
later - at the age of twenty-three.
He was awarded a posthumous VC for selfless action involving
extraordinary
gallantry.
He is buried at Bayeux war cemetery and the inscription on his grave
reads:
"His parents proudly remember him as a true Camberwell boy and a
loving
son."
His parents offered this inscription with the modesty usual at that
time.
What his parents could have rightly added was:
"He died to preserve the people, place and country he knew and loved
so
well; and for which he willingly laid down his life."
--------------------------------------
The Camberwell of today, he would not know.
It is certainly not the one he died to preserve.
The Camberwell Website has a "Local Heroes" section which makes no
mention
of Sidney Bates, VC.
However, it does mention that Jeremy Bowen - who is often seen around
Denmark Hill with his shirt unbuttoned to his waist - has become a
"Gay
Icon" in many magazines who cater for that "community".
Other Camberwell "Communities" mentioned are:
The Asian Women's Association.
The African Residents Support Group.
The Bengali Community.
The Black Elderly Group.
(There is no mention of any group which would have - for instance -
been
there particularly to support people like Corporal Bates's parents.)
--------------------------------------
A News Item mentioned the area around Camberwell Station is now a
crime
hotspot and a raid in that area - involving over 90 officers -
recently
became necessary.
--------------------------------------
A nation wide survey conducted by the Sunday Telegraph - directed at
school
children between the ages of 10-14 - indicates that only 28% of them
knew
what D-Day was.
(They most certainly would not know about the Corporal Bates; whom -
it
seems - even Camberwell has now forgotten.)
--------------------------------------
Did Corporal Sidney Bates die for all this?
And was his parents' proud anguish and the pride in the Camberwell
which
nurtured him worthwhile?
-------------------------------------
Why have we made the proud and peaceful places those like Sidney Bates
fought for so alien and crime-ridden they would not know these places
as the
ones they wished to preserve?
Are we, and what we have made of the places they knew, worth their
deaths?
Would those like Corporal Sidney Bates think we are not?
Why have we betrayed the dead of D-Day?
*************************************

[The Enlightenment]

Greg Hennessy > wrote in message >...
> On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 14:31:07 GMT, "Michael 182"
> > wrote:
>
>
> >> Unintentional but true. This was a war not worth fighting or even
> >> winning.
> >
> >I think I'm going to be sick...
> >
>
> What did you expect, our friend here is a well known australian neo nazi.

> greg

I prefer the term heretic.

Sticks and Stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me.

Clearly you are offended by what I've said. Is the offense so great
because what I've argued has at least the element of truth that you
feel unable to deal with except with ad hominem?

I stand by what I've said. That victory has been wasted and those
traitors and idiots on the celebration dias are a representation of
the *******s that did it.

[David Reinhart]

I saw it on CNN's Web site weeks ago. You can try a search.

Dave Reinhart


Paul Tomblin wrote:

> In a previous article, said:
> >And the veterans who landed are going to be excluded from visiting the
> >invasion beaches because of the security. The politicians should stay
>
> Can you point me to a cite for that? I can't find it on any of the
> reputable news sources - or even Fox.
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> "It's free they say, if you can get it to run, the geeks say `hey, that's half
> the fun', but I've got a girlfriend and things to get done, the Linux OS sucks"
> - Three Dead Trolls In A Baggie, "Every OS Sucks" http://www.deadtroll.com/

[David Reinhart]

Here's a link:
http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/s/118/118576_dday_heroes_denied_last_visit_to_beaches.ht ml

If you didn't win the lottery, you can't go.

Dave Reinhart


Paul Tomblin wrote:

> In a previous article, said:
> >And the veterans who landed are going to be excluded from visiting the
> >invasion beaches because of the security. The politicians should stay
>
> Can you point me to a cite for that? I can't find it on any of the
> reputable news sources - or even Fox.
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> "It's free they say, if you can get it to run, the geeks say `hey, that's half
> the fun', but I've got a girlfriend and things to get done, the Linux OS sucks"
> - Three Dead Trolls In A Baggie, "Every OS Sucks" http://www.deadtroll.com/

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, said:
>I saw it on CNN's Web site weeks ago. You can try a search.

I did before I asked for the cite. That's why I said "I can't find it
on any reputable news source".

On the other hand,
http://www.thisisbath.com/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=113966&command=displayContent&sourceNode=113965&contentPK=10144628
contains a description of a ceremony:

The trip will involve a service at sea, followed by a flypast by the RAF
memorial fleet in the Channel as the boat nears the beaches.

As the boat arrives on the coast, the RAF military bomber fleet will
release thousands of poppies.

The group will then go to Bayeux where there will be an additional service
at the cemetery.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"The surreality of the universe tends towards a maximum" -- Skud's Law
"Never formulate a law or axiom that you're not prepared to live with
the consequences of." -- Skud's Meta-Law

[Blanche]

Killfile.

[Brian Burger]

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004, Newps wrote:

>
> "Greg Hennessy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 14:31:07 GMT, "Michael 182"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> > >> Unintentional but true. This was a war not worth fighting or even
> > >> winning.
> > >
> > >I think I'm going to be sick...
> > >
> >
> > What did you expect, our friend here is a well known australian neo nazi.
> >
>
>
>
> Not that well known. Never heard of her.

More than you wanted to know:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=bernxard%40yahoo.com.au&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
(I just Googled on his/her/it's email addy...)

Piles of racist white-supremecist trash, and some moderately intelligent
comments about military aviation, it seems. But mostly racist trash.

Please note that this is NOT crossposted back to rec.aviation.military -
let's try and keep the idiot level here in r.a.p. down!

Brian.

[The Enlightenment]

Blanche > wrote in message >...
> Killfile.


suits me fine retard.

[Greg Hennessy]

On 2 Jun 2004 16:05:25 -0700, (The Enlightenment)
wrote:

>Greg Hennessy > wrote in message >...
>> On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 14:31:07 GMT, "Michael 182"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>> >> Unintentional but true. This was a war not worth fighting or even
>> >> winning.
>> >
>> >I think I'm going to be sick...
>> >
>>
>> What did you expect, our friend here is a well known australian neo nazi.
>
>> greg
>
>I prefer the term heretic.
>

I prefer to call a spade a spade.

Especially a hypocritical one married to an immigrant.


greg

--
"vying with Platt for the largest gap
between capability and self perception"

[The Enlightenment]

Greg Hennessy > wrote in message >...
> On 2 Jun 2004 16:05:25 -0700, (The Enlightenment)
> wrote:
>
> >Greg Hennessy > wrote in message >...
> >> On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 14:31:07 GMT, "Michael 182"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >> Unintentional but true. This was a war not worth fighting or even
> >> >> winning.
> >> >
> >> >I think I'm going to be sick...
> >> >
> >>
> >> What did you expect, our friend here is a well known australian neo nazi.
>
> >> greg
> >
> >I prefer the term heretic.
> >
>
> I prefer to call a spade a spade.
>
> Especially a hypocritical one married to an immigrant.


So what did I say that upset you diddums?

>
>
> greg

[S Green]

"The Enlightenment" > wrote in message
om...
> "Michael 182" > wrote in message
news:<Kwlvc.41294$Ly.16031@attbi_s01>...
> > "The Enlightenment" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > David Reinhart > wrote in message
> > >...
> > > > And the veterans who landed are going to be excluded from visiting
the
> > > > invasion beaches because of the security. The politicians should
stay
> > > > home and let the vets have their day.
> >
> > > > Almost half a million won't be here next year.
> > >
> > > That sounds fair. The European derived races will be halved in less
> > > than 50 years thanks to their victory.
> > >
> > > Unintentional but true. This was a war not worth fighting or even
> > > winning.
> >
> > I think I'm going to be sick...
>
> So you should be. The victory was at the very best wasted in
> subsequent years unfortuntely so therefore were all the sacrifices.
> Those d-day soldiers (4 of june not 6th as I recall) won't have any
> descendents: whites will be a disempowered and possibly despised
> minority in most of the west within 50 years, they will almost
> certainly still be paying the costs and debilitations of affirmitive
> action, they will be demographicaly, culturaly and genetically
> effectively non existent in 100 but most certainly "Kurdified": unable
> to determin even what their children are taught.
>
> Is that why any of our fathers died? Not from the vets I've spoken
> to.
>
>
> ************************
>
> The men of Britain who died in the event known as D-Day risked their
> lives
> for one simple reason.
> Which was:
> -----------------------------
> To preserve from foreign domination an intensely law-abiding land
> whose
> people had a strong sense of unity and identity.
> These men were willing to die because of a patriotism arising from the
> qualities of the land and its people - and also a history of the land
> and
> its people they all knew about and felt proud about.
> -----------------------------
> The tenacity and endurance of soldiers and civilians alike, at that
> time,
> attests to the pride and morale the identification with their country
> generated.
> Those who took part in the D-Day event and its immediate aftermath had
> no
> other reasons in their mind but that stated above.
> The ideas about saving "persecuted minorities" was one which arose
> some
> years after the war and was something which they, at the time of
> D-Day,
> would not have recognised.
> -----------------------------
> The details of one such person involved in the D-Day landing was given
> in
> the Daily Telegraph, of Monday May 31st.
> It told of Corporal Sidney Bates who, on the 6th August 1944, took up
> a
> machine gun and - through a hail of bullets - attacked an enemy
> entrenchment
> to save his comrades from possible annihilation.
> He was seriously wounded three times in the process and died two days
> later - at the age of twenty-three.
> He was awarded a posthumous VC for selfless action involving
> extraordinary
> gallantry.
> He is buried at Bayeux war cemetery and the inscription on his grave
> reads:
> "His parents proudly remember him as a true Camberwell boy and a
> loving
> son."
> His parents offered this inscription with the modesty usual at that
> time.
> What his parents could have rightly added was:
> "He died to preserve the people, place and country he knew and loved
> so
> well; and for which he willingly laid down his life."
> --------------------------------------
> The Camberwell of today, he would not know.
> It is certainly not the one he died to preserve.
> The Camberwell Website has a "Local Heroes" section which makes no
> mention
> of Sidney Bates, VC.
> However, it does mention that Jeremy Bowen - who is often seen around
> Denmark Hill with his shirt unbuttoned to his waist - has become a
> "Gay
> Icon" in many magazines who cater for that "community".
> Other Camberwell "Communities" mentioned are:
> The Asian Women's Association.
> The African Residents Support Group.
> The Bengali Community.
> The Black Elderly Group.
> (There is no mention of any group which would have - for instance -
> been
> there particularly to support people like Corporal Bates's parents.)
> --------------------------------------
> A News Item mentioned the area around Camberwell Station is now a
> crime
> hotspot and a raid in that area - involving over 90 officers -
> recently
> became necessary.
> --------------------------------------
> A nation wide survey conducted by the Sunday Telegraph - directed at
> school
> children between the ages of 10-14 - indicates that only 28% of them
> knew
> what D-Day was.
> (They most certainly would not know about the Corporal Bates; whom -
> it
> seems - even Camberwell has now forgotten.)
> --------------------------------------
> Did Corporal Sidney Bates die for all this?
> And was his parents' proud anguish and the pride in the Camberwell
> which
> nurtured him worthwhile?
> -------------------------------------
> Why have we made the proud and peaceful places those like Sidney Bates
> fought for so alien and crime-ridden they would not know these places
> as the
> ones they wished to preserve?
> Are we, and what we have made of the places they knew, worth their
> deaths?
> Would those like Corporal Sidney Bates think we are not?
> Why have we betrayed the dead of D-Day?
> *************************************

Britain involved with D Day - no way. The movie I saw had the US storming
the beaches on their own and marching all the way to Berlin to win the war.

[Greg Hennessy]

On 3 Jun 2004 12:22:26 -0700, (The Enlightenment)
wrote:


>> I prefer to call a spade a spade.
>>
>> Especially a hypocritical one married to an immigrant.
>
>
>So what did I say that upset you diddums?
>
>>


No revisionist loon is ever worth getting 'upset' over.

Ridicule OTOH is far more effective.


greg


--
"vying with Platt for the largest gap
between capability and self perception"

[Newps]

"The Enlightenment" > wrote in message
om...
> Blanche > wrote in message
>...
> > Killfile.
>
>
> suits me fine retard.

Very enlightened.

[Newps]

"Greg Hennessy" > wrote in message
...
> On 3 Jun 2004 12:22:26 -0700, (The Enlightenment)
> wrote:
>
>
> >> I prefer to call a spade a spade.
> >>
> >> Especially a hypocritical one married to an immigrant.
> >
> >
> >So what did I say that upset you diddums?
> >
> >>
>
>
> No revisionist loon is ever worth getting 'upset' over.
>
> Ridicule OTOH is far more effective.

And fun. Where's Patty when you need her? That would be a spectator sport.

[John Gaquin]

"The Enlightenment" > wrote in message

> Those d-day soldiers (4 of june not 6th as I recall) .....

Well, glad to see you're up on your facts.

You should get back on your meds now.

[gatt]

"The Enlightenment" > wrote in message

> That sounds fair. The European derived races will be halved in less
> than 50 years thanks to their victory.
>
> Unintentional but true. This was a war not worth fighting or even
> winning.

Having been raised by a POW who witnessed the atrocities at KZ Mauthausen
firsthand, saying that I'm offended by this remark is an understatement.

-gattman

[gatt]

"The Enlightenment" > wrote in message

> Sticks and Stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me.

That's what the Lancaster, the Flying Fortress and the Liberator were for.

-c

[gatt]

"John Gaquin" > wrote in message news:-d-

> > Those d-day soldiers (4 of june not 6th as I recall) .....
>
> Well, glad to see you're up on your facts.

LOL!

This is why I unsubscribed from rec.aviation.military years ago. Too many
nutjobs who lack the psychological capacity to actually fly an airplane.
Wish we could get more of their aviators to r.a.p and leave these crazoids
over there to argue about UFOs and the Illuminati and whatnot.

-c

[gatt]

"Bob Fry" > wrote in message
...
> Skysurfer > writes:
>
> > One (between others) thing France has managed to do :
> > http://www.specialoperations.com/Counterterrorism/gign.html
>
> And another thing the French managed to do recently is avoid helping
> to create another terrorist state in the Middle East.

Selling 'em an Exocets?

[gatt]

"Skysurfer" > wrote in message \

> The truth is that France enjoyed minor economic ties with Saddam.

Check out the Alcatel contract to rebuild the telecom grid in Baghdad before
Hussein was knocked over. More than minor economic ties.

" Alcatel is French. We don't blame all French companies for the French
government's recalcitrance in making Saddam live up to his UN obligations,
or France's continuing opposition to constructive participation in
reconstruction, but we will point out that Alcatel itself is partially
government owned.

The point is that countries and companies that helped Saddam stay in power,
and countries and companies that made a profit from the Ba'athist regime on
the backs of the Iraqi people should not have the inside track on
reconstruction contracts. "
http://www.iraq.net/News-article-sid-172-mode-thread.html
http://www.middle-east.alcatel.com/me/content/story/iraqnatcm648874.jhtml
-c

[G.R. Patterson III]

gatt wrote:
>
> Wish we could get more of their aviators to r.a.p and leave these crazoids
> over there to argue about UFOs and the Illuminati and whatnot.

Damn, I wish you hadn't crossposted that. That's all we need is "The Enlightenment"
over here all the time in r.a.p.

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

[Jack]

:

> Arromanches' 534 residents have been told that they must either stay indoors
> throughout next Sunday or leave the area.

Is this event organized by the DNC Convention planners in Boston?

[S Green]

"Jack" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> :
>
> > Arromanches' 534 residents have been told that they must either stay
indoors
> > throughout next Sunday or leave the area.
>
A funny way to celebrate being liberated from fascists.

[Skysurfer]

gatt wrote :

> "Skysurfer" > wrote in message \
>
>> The truth is that France enjoyed minor economic ties with Saddam.
>
> Check out the Alcatel contract to rebuild the telecom grid in
> Baghdad before Hussein was knocked over. More than minor economic
> ties.

Not before but *after* Saddam fall.
Nothing to do with Saddam regime.

And *before* my previous statement is correct.

--
"The French Were Right" (The National Journal)
http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2003/1107nj1.htm

[G.R. Patterson III]

S Green wrote:
>
> > > Arromanches' 534 residents have been told that they must either stay
> indoors
> > > throughout next Sunday or leave the area.
> >
> A funny way to celebrate being liberated from fascists.

Why? It's exactly the way they handled the original invasion.

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

[Chad Irby]

In article >,
"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote:

> S Green wrote:
> >
> > > > Arromanches' 534 residents have been told that they must either
> > > > stay indoors throughout next Sunday or leave the area.
> > >
> > A funny way to celebrate being liberated from fascists.
>
> Why? It's exactly the way they handled the original invasion.

In case you haven't noticed, there's not that many German soldiers
defending the coast this time.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

[The Enlightenment]

"gatt" > wrote in message >...
> "The Enlightenment" > wrote in message
>
> > That sounds fair. The European derived races will be halved in less
> > than 50 years thanks to their victory.
> >
> > Unintentional but true. This was a war not worth fighting or even
> > winning.
>
> Having been raised by a POW who witnessed the atrocities at KZ Mauthausen
> firsthand, saying that I'm offended by this remark is an understatement.
>
> -gattman


Yet another of many survivors and yet another witness of nothing
specific other than incarceration and its side effects. The
holohype, the now perverse and ad nauseum and dogmatically imposed
religion of the west, is the putrescent being used to corrode us con
us in the west into commiting racial Hari Kari.

[The Enlightenment]

"gatt" > wrote in message >...
> "John Gaquin" > wrote in message news:-d-
>
> > > Those d-day soldiers (4 of june not 6th as I recall) .....
> >
> > Well, glad to see you're up on your facts.
>
> LOL!
>
> This is why I unsubscribed from rec.aviation.military years ago. Too many
> nutjobs who lack the psychological capacity to actually fly an airplane.
> Wish we could get more of their aviators to r.a.p and leave these crazoids
> over there to argue about UFOs and the Illuminati and whatnot.
>
> -c


Let me make the point again. Looking at what the UK and the USA have
become, looking at those disgusting heads of state on that dias and
most poignently looking and what is becoming (disappearing) of the
descendents of those D-Day soldiers.

Hitlers wouldn't have done worse.

There is nothing 'conspiratorial' about that. Merely a bitter
assertion that can be strognly and easily argued.

[Greg Hennessy]

On 6 Jun 2004 14:37:06 -0700, (The Enlightenment)
wrote:



>There is nothing 'conspiratorial' about that. Merely a bitter
>assertion that can be strognly and easily argued.

ROTFL!

Oh really.

I am sure you'll point out where the

"disgusting heads of state" (sic)

have launched a genocidal war of mass murder on the basis of irrational
sectarian hate across europe.

I cant say I've noticed the 10s of millions dead or the death camps or the
slave labourers giving it the old arbeit macht frei of late.




greg



--
"vying with Platt for the largest gap
between capability and self perception"