Question re: Medical

[Captain Wubba]

Howdy. I'm currently having a problem with the FAA Medical Division.
The situation is as follows. I have a minor endocrine disorder that is
easily managed by a medication that is already FAA-approved. Neither
the disorder nor the medication has *any* side effects that could
remotely impact flying, and I have been stable on this medication for
over 5 years, with no problems whatsoever. I have had two previous
physicals, a Class III and a Class II. Both times, the AMEs signed me
off without question or problem, and both times the medication and
underlying disorder were reported to the FAA, which apparently had no
problem with it either. This disorder is not listed among
disqualifying disorders, but it is relatively rare. I have solid
medical documentation that there are no problems, the medication is
safe and effective, and that I am stable on it.

I went to a different AME this time for my Class II (it expired in
May, so had I not seen him I would have had my Class III privileges
for an additional 2 years). The guy I saw (I found out later) has a
bad reputation among local pilots, to the extent that his name has
been crossed off the list of local AMEs that several flight scools
give to students because of all the problems he has caused. Anyway, he
'deferred' me to Oklahoma City, and did not issue my medical. He said
that there was a 99.99% probability I would be approved, of course,
but he wasn't willing to 'take the chance', whatever that means.

I talked with the FSDO and they advised me that I am grounded for the
duration of this review period (probably 3-6 months). I had heard that
position before, that as soon as you request a new physical, your old
one becomes invalid. But I cannot find anything explicitly stating
that anywhere in the FARs, parts 61 or 67. I find information
regarding 'suspended', 'denied' and 'revoked' medical certs, but my
situation is *none* of those. I find information requiring me to
'self-ground' upon receipt of knowledge that I have a condition that
may make me ineligible for a medical certificate, but I have no such
knowledge; my medical situation is *exactly* the same as it was last
year, when an AME found me fit to fly, and the FAA did not superceded
that; specifically the disorder and medication I am on *is* clearly
one with which I can fly, since the FAA has known about it for years
with no problem.

Nobody has requested that I return my medical cert, I am still in
physical posession of an (apparently) valid medical certificate
allowing Class III privileges for 2 more years. Nothing I signed
stated that my previous medical became invalid, and nothing I have
received from anyone states anything about that.

So....my question is, where is the black-letter law stating that my
previous medical has been superceded by my new one? I cannot find it.
My application is being reviewed, it has not been denied, nor
approved. I have talked to the AOPA (which seems to agree that I am on
the bench), and with a very experienced DE who went through the exact
same thing several years ago, and states that the FSDO and the AOPA
are wrong on this. His position (one which I *really* like, obviously)
is that, since I am in physical posession of a valid medical
certificate, and since I have not been requested to surrender it by
certified mail, and since I have no official communication from anyone
that it has been revoked, suspended, denied, or superceded that I am
perfectly legal to fly. His position is that is is essentially like a
checkride that has been discontinued; i.e. that it has not be 'failed'
nor 'passed', but that in the meantime, any previously valid
certificate is still valid.

If he is wrong, then there *must* be some black-letter law somewhere
that specifies that. If anyone can point me to it, I would greatly
appreciate it, because absent some binding authority (a verbal opinion
from a FSDO, while significant and useful, does not seem to constitute
legally binding authority in this matter) I do not see any reason to
believe that I cannot fly.

Obviously I don't want to make the situation worse by getting violated
for flying without a medical. But equally obviously I don't want to
sit on the bench for 3 months for what should be a trivial review and
a near-automatic approval. I really can't shell out several thousand
dollars for an aviation attorney, nor would I want to get into a
****ing match with the FAA anyway. If I can't fly, then I can't fly
and I'll live with it...but if there is any way that I can legally
stay in the air (however loohole-ish it might be), then I want to.

Any ideas, opinions or suggestions?

Thanks,

Cap

[zatatime]

On 10 Jun 2004 05:34:03 -0700, (Captain
Wubba) wrote:
>
>Any ideas, opinions or suggestions?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Cap
No facts, just opinions.

Anyone who will ramp check you will only see a valid medical and leave
you alone. The government only works from 8 - 4:30, Monday - Friday.
This leaves alot of time to fly if you are really worried.

If you have not received a letter from the FAA, you have not received
any indication you can't fly. The AME does not have the authority to
ground you, he just makes recommendations to OKC.

All of this is hearsay, but I think you get the point that I think you
should still be able to fly. If I were in your shoes these are some
of the things I would use if they ever gave me a hard time.


There is an AME who frequents the group. He's stated what the DE
said. Maybe he'll chime in with some facts.

Good Luck.

z

[Casey Wilson]

Forward all this information to the AOPA medical section....


"Captain Wubba" > wrote in message
om...
> Howdy. I'm currently having a problem with the FAA Medical Division.
> The situation is as follows. I have a minor endocrine disorder that is
> easily managed by a medication that is already FAA-approved. Neither
> the disorder nor the medication has *any* side effects that could
> remotely impact flying, and I have been stable on this medication for
> over 5 years, with no problems whatsoever. I have had two previous
> physicals, a Class III and a Class II. Both times, the AMEs signed me
> off without question or problem, and both times the medication and
> underlying disorder were reported to the FAA, which apparently had no
> problem with it either. This disorder is not listed among
> disqualifying disorders, but it is relatively rare. I have solid
> medical documentation that there are no problems, the medication is
> safe and effective, and that I am stable on it.
>
> I went to a different AME this time for my Class II (it expired in
> May, so had I not seen him I would have had my Class III privileges
> for an additional 2 years). The guy I saw (I found out later) has a
> bad reputation among local pilots, to the extent that his name has
> been crossed off the list of local AMEs that several flight scools
> give to students because of all the problems he has caused. Anyway, he
> 'deferred' me to Oklahoma City, and did not issue my medical. He said
> that there was a 99.99% probability I would be approved, of course,
> but he wasn't willing to 'take the chance', whatever that means.
>
> I talked with the FSDO and they advised me that I am grounded for the
> duration of this review period (probably 3-6 months). I had heard that
> position before, that as soon as you request a new physical, your old
> one becomes invalid. But I cannot find anything explicitly stating
> that anywhere in the FARs, parts 61 or 67. I find information
> regarding 'suspended', 'denied' and 'revoked' medical certs, but my
> situation is *none* of those. I find information requiring me to
> 'self-ground' upon receipt of knowledge that I have a condition that
> may make me ineligible for a medical certificate, but I have no such
> knowledge; my medical situation is *exactly* the same as it was last
> year, when an AME found me fit to fly, and the FAA did not superceded
> that; specifically the disorder and medication I am on *is* clearly
> one with which I can fly, since the FAA has known about it for years
> with no problem.
>
> Nobody has requested that I return my medical cert, I am still in
> physical posession of an (apparently) valid medical certificate
> allowing Class III privileges for 2 more years. Nothing I signed
> stated that my previous medical became invalid, and nothing I have
> received from anyone states anything about that.
>
> So....my question is, where is the black-letter law stating that my
> previous medical has been superceded by my new one? I cannot find it.
> My application is being reviewed, it has not been denied, nor
> approved. I have talked to the AOPA (which seems to agree that I am on
> the bench), and with a very experienced DE who went through the exact
> same thing several years ago, and states that the FSDO and the AOPA
> are wrong on this. His position (one which I *really* like, obviously)
> is that, since I am in physical posession of a valid medical
> certificate, and since I have not been requested to surrender it by
> certified mail, and since I have no official communication from anyone
> that it has been revoked, suspended, denied, or superceded that I am
> perfectly legal to fly. His position is that is is essentially like a
> checkride that has been discontinued; i.e. that it has not be 'failed'
> nor 'passed', but that in the meantime, any previously valid
> certificate is still valid.
>
> If he is wrong, then there *must* be some black-letter law somewhere
> that specifies that. If anyone can point me to it, I would greatly
> appreciate it, because absent some binding authority (a verbal opinion
> from a FSDO, while significant and useful, does not seem to constitute
> legally binding authority in this matter) I do not see any reason to
> believe that I cannot fly.
>
> Obviously I don't want to make the situation worse by getting violated
> for flying without a medical. But equally obviously I don't want to
> sit on the bench for 3 months for what should be a trivial review and
> a near-automatic approval. I really can't shell out several thousand
> dollars for an aviation attorney, nor would I want to get into a
> ****ing match with the FAA anyway. If I can't fly, then I can't fly
> and I'll live with it...but if there is any way that I can legally
> stay in the air (however loohole-ish it might be), then I want to.
>
> Any ideas, opinions or suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Cap

[BTIZ]

and have you talked to the AOPA? is your medication on there "list" of
approved or disapproved..

BT

"Captain Wubba" > wrote in message
om...
> Howdy. I'm currently having a problem with the FAA Medical Division.
> The situation is as follows. I have a minor endocrine disorder that is
> easily managed by a medication that is already FAA-approved. Neither
> the disorder nor the medication has *any* side effects that could
> remotely impact flying, and I have been stable on this medication for
> over 5 years, with no problems whatsoever. I have had two previous
> physicals, a Class III and a Class II. Both times, the AMEs signed me
> off without question or problem, and both times the medication and
> underlying disorder were reported to the FAA, which apparently had no
> problem with it either. This disorder is not listed among
> disqualifying disorders, but it is relatively rare. I have solid
> medical documentation that there are no problems, the medication is
> safe and effective, and that I am stable on it.
>
> I went to a different AME this time for my Class II (it expired in
> May, so had I not seen him I would have had my Class III privileges
> for an additional 2 years). The guy I saw (I found out later) has a
> bad reputation among local pilots, to the extent that his name has
> been crossed off the list of local AMEs that several flight scools
> give to students because of all the problems he has caused. Anyway, he
> 'deferred' me to Oklahoma City, and did not issue my medical. He said
> that there was a 99.99% probability I would be approved, of course,
> but he wasn't willing to 'take the chance', whatever that means.
>
> I talked with the FSDO and they advised me that I am grounded for the
> duration of this review period (probably 3-6 months). I had heard that
> position before, that as soon as you request a new physical, your old
> one becomes invalid. But I cannot find anything explicitly stating
> that anywhere in the FARs, parts 61 or 67. I find information
> regarding 'suspended', 'denied' and 'revoked' medical certs, but my
> situation is *none* of those. I find information requiring me to
> 'self-ground' upon receipt of knowledge that I have a condition that
> may make me ineligible for a medical certificate, but I have no such
> knowledge; my medical situation is *exactly* the same as it was last
> year, when an AME found me fit to fly, and the FAA did not superceded
> that; specifically the disorder and medication I am on *is* clearly
> one with which I can fly, since the FAA has known about it for years
> with no problem.
>
> Nobody has requested that I return my medical cert, I am still in
> physical posession of an (apparently) valid medical certificate
> allowing Class III privileges for 2 more years. Nothing I signed
> stated that my previous medical became invalid, and nothing I have
> received from anyone states anything about that.
>
> So....my question is, where is the black-letter law stating that my
> previous medical has been superceded by my new one? I cannot find it.
> My application is being reviewed, it has not been denied, nor
> approved. I have talked to the AOPA (which seems to agree that I am on
> the bench), and with a very experienced DE who went through the exact
> same thing several years ago, and states that the FSDO and the AOPA
> are wrong on this. His position (one which I *really* like, obviously)
> is that, since I am in physical posession of a valid medical
> certificate, and since I have not been requested to surrender it by
> certified mail, and since I have no official communication from anyone
> that it has been revoked, suspended, denied, or superceded that I am
> perfectly legal to fly. His position is that is is essentially like a
> checkride that has been discontinued; i.e. that it has not be 'failed'
> nor 'passed', but that in the meantime, any previously valid
> certificate is still valid.
>
> If he is wrong, then there *must* be some black-letter law somewhere
> that specifies that. If anyone can point me to it, I would greatly
> appreciate it, because absent some binding authority (a verbal opinion
> from a FSDO, while significant and useful, does not seem to constitute
> legally binding authority in this matter) I do not see any reason to
> believe that I cannot fly.
>
> Obviously I don't want to make the situation worse by getting violated
> for flying without a medical. But equally obviously I don't want to
> sit on the bench for 3 months for what should be a trivial review and
> a near-automatic approval. I really can't shell out several thousand
> dollars for an aviation attorney, nor would I want to get into a
> ****ing match with the FAA anyway. If I can't fly, then I can't fly
> and I'll live with it...but if there is any way that I can legally
> stay in the air (however loohole-ish it might be), then I want to.
>
> Any ideas, opinions or suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Cap

[Steve]

I don't know the legal answer to your question but it sounds like we
have the same endocrine condition. My situation was a little bit
different because I was diagnosed while I had a class III medical.
When it was about to expire I went for a new AME exam and was told by
the doc that he would have to defer me. I immediately called AOPA and
they said have him send it to the regional flight surgeon instead of
Oklahoma City. He did and my class II was approved in two weeks, but
it specifically stated on it that it was not valid for any class after
one year. The letter from the regional flight surgeon told me that if
I went for my AME exam at the beginning of the month the medical
expired then I should have my medical back from the regional office
before my medical expired at the end of that month.

My following year sounds similar to your situation. I had a medical
that would expire at the end of the month when I went to see the AME.
The AME deferred to the regional doctor but that doctor had already
told me I was OK to fly after the AME exam up to the actual expiration
date printed on the medical. (I know that normally a class II medical
becomes a class III after one year but mine specifically stated it did
not)

I would also point out that the FAA does not have a list of approved
meds. The AOPA keeps a list of medicines that the FAA has approved in
the past for certain people, but just because the medicine is on
AOPA's list does not mean it will be approved in every individual's
case.

After three years of the above situation with the regional flight
surgeon working perfectly my AME's staff made a mistake and sent my
deferral to Oklahoma City. What had taken the regional doctor two
weeks (all by himself) took a team of doctors in OK four months to
accomplish. And once everything was sent to OK they refused to send
it back to the regional doctor who was perfectly willing to accept it.
This made me want to pull my hair out because OK was saying it was
taking so long because they had a big backlog but they weren't willing
to get rid of at least one of the cases causing the backlog. All they
would have had to do was make a phone call to the regional doc and he
could review the file on the computer and issue the medical. Oh well,
our FAA at work.


On 10 Jun 2004 05:34:03 -0700, (Captain Wubba)
wrote:

>Howdy. I'm currently having a problem with the FAA Medical Division.
>The situation is as follows. I have a minor endocrine disorder that is
>easily managed by a medication that is already FAA-approved. Neither
>the disorder nor the medication has *any* side effects that could
>remotely impact flying, and I have been stable on this medication for
>over 5 years, with no problems whatsoever. I have had two previous
>physicals, a Class III and a Class II. Both times, the AMEs signed me
>off without question or problem, and both times the medication and
>underlying disorder were reported to the FAA, which apparently had no
>problem with it either. This disorder is not listed among
>disqualifying disorders, but it is relatively rare. I have solid
>medical documentation that there are no problems, the medication is
>safe and effective, and that I am stable on it.
>
>I went to a different AME this time for my Class II (it expired in
>May, so had I not seen him I would have had my Class III privileges
>for an additional 2 years). The guy I saw (I found out later) has a
>bad reputation among local pilots, to the extent that his name has
>been crossed off the list of local AMEs that several flight scools
>give to students because of all the problems he has caused. Anyway, he
>'deferred' me to Oklahoma City, and did not issue my medical. He said
>that there was a 99.99% probability I would be approved, of course,
>but he wasn't willing to 'take the chance', whatever that means.
>
>I talked with the FSDO and they advised me that I am grounded for the
>duration of this review period (probably 3-6 months). I had heard that
>position before, that as soon as you request a new physical, your old
>one becomes invalid. But I cannot find anything explicitly stating
>that anywhere in the FARs, parts 61 or 67. I find information
>regarding 'suspended', 'denied' and 'revoked' medical certs, but my
>situation is *none* of those. I find information requiring me to
>'self-ground' upon receipt of knowledge that I have a condition that
>may make me ineligible for a medical certificate, but I have no such
>knowledge; my medical situation is *exactly* the same as it was last
>year, when an AME found me fit to fly, and the FAA did not superceded
>that; specifically the disorder and medication I am on *is* clearly
>one with which I can fly, since the FAA has known about it for years
>with no problem.
>
>Nobody has requested that I return my medical cert, I am still in
>physical posession of an (apparently) valid medical certificate
>allowing Class III privileges for 2 more years. Nothing I signed
>stated that my previous medical became invalid, and nothing I have
>received from anyone states anything about that.
>
>So....my question is, where is the black-letter law stating that my
>previous medical has been superceded by my new one? I cannot find it.
>My application is being reviewed, it has not been denied, nor
>approved. I have talked to the AOPA (which seems to agree that I am on
>the bench), and with a very experienced DE who went through the exact
>same thing several years ago, and states that the FSDO and the AOPA
>are wrong on this. His position (one which I *really* like, obviously)
>is that, since I am in physical posession of a valid medical
>certificate, and since I have not been requested to surrender it by
>certified mail, and since I have no official communication from anyone
>that it has been revoked, suspended, denied, or superceded that I am
>perfectly legal to fly. His position is that is is essentially like a
>checkride that has been discontinued; i.e. that it has not be 'failed'
>nor 'passed', but that in the meantime, any previously valid
>certificate is still valid.
>
>If he is wrong, then there *must* be some black-letter law somewhere
>that specifies that. If anyone can point me to it, I would greatly
>appreciate it, because absent some binding authority (a verbal opinion
>from a FSDO, while significant and useful, does not seem to constitute
>legally binding authority in this matter) I do not see any reason to
>believe that I cannot fly.
>
>Obviously I don't want to make the situation worse by getting violated
>for flying without a medical. But equally obviously I don't want to
>sit on the bench for 3 months for what should be a trivial review and
>a near-automatic approval. I really can't shell out several thousand
>dollars for an aviation attorney, nor would I want to get into a
>****ing match with the FAA anyway. If I can't fly, then I can't fly
>and I'll live with it...but if there is any way that I can legally
>stay in the air (however loohole-ish it might be), then I want to.
>
>Any ideas, opinions or suggestions?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Cap

[John Clonts]

"Captain Wubba" > wrote in message
om...
> Howdy. I'm currently having a problem with the FAA Medical Division.
> The situation is as follows. I have a minor endocrine disorder that is
> easily managed by a medication that is already FAA-approved. Neither
> the disorder nor the medication has *any* side effects that could
[snip]

You might want to talk to www.leftseat.com. My father is using them to
attempt to restore his flying privileges after some heart trouble. It's
early in the process yet, but he has been pleased with his discussions with
them so far...

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ