View Full Version : SSA Booth April 4-6 at nations largest RC exhibition
Sean Fidler
March 27th 14, 10:09 PM
The SSA will have a display booth at the upcoming RC Exhibition to be held April 4-6 in Toledo, OH.
Info here: http://www.toledoshow.com/
Our booth will have all kinds of new SSA event signage (thanks Lane), soaring video's running on a 65 inch LCD, sailplane models and most importantly will be selling SSA FAST packages to RC enthusiasts (huge youth demographic) perhaps interested in experiencing true flight (via the SSA's new square account).
If you are in the MIchigan/Ohio/Indiana area and are interested in helping "man the SSA booth" and share your passion about soaring with a bright and high energy audience, let me know! We could still use a few more hands.
The exhibition itself (largest RC event in North America) is an incredible display of new RC technology. One of the great things about this event is that it is very heavy on the ultra high end RC sailplane competition products. If your in the neighborhood it may be a fun way to spend a few hours over the weekend.
Sincerely,
Sean
CLewis95
March 27th 14, 10:19 PM
On Thursday, March 27, 2014 5:09:07 PM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
> The SSA will have a display booth at the upcoming RC Exhibition to be held April 4-6 in Toledo, OH.
>
>
>
> Info here: http://www.toledoshow.com/
>
>
>
> Our booth will have all kinds of new SSA event signage (thanks Lane), soaring video's running on a 65 inch LCD, sailplane models and most importantly will be selling SSA FAST packages to RC enthusiasts (huge youth demographic) perhaps interested in experiencing true flight (via the SSA's new square account).
>
>
>
> If you are in the MIchigan/Ohio/Indiana area and are interested in helping "man the SSA booth" and share your passion about soaring with a bright and high energy audience, let me know! We could still use a few more hands.
>
>
>
> The exhibition itself (largest RC event in North America) is an incredible display of new RC technology. One of the great things about this event is that it is very heavy on the ultra high end RC sailplane competition products. If your in the neighborhood it may be a fun way to spend a few hours over the weekend.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Sean
My guess is this should go over quite well! Huge exposure to some very enthusiastic "hobbyists" with a passion for flight. Looking forward to reports.
Curt Lewis -95
On Thursday,
>
> My guess is this should go over quite well! Huge exposure to some very enthusiastic "hobbyists" with a passion for flight. Looking forward to reports.
>
> Curt Lewis -95
Sadly Curt, the age profile in RC flying - inside RC Clubs - is not so different from that of Soaring clubs. Having attended quite a few of the very good Toledo shows, the audience there is of the 60+ male population.
We had a very active RC Soaring group here in Chicagoland make a great presentation at one of our Winter meetings. They talked at length about their fascinating x-country and other contest flying, these were guys in the 30-40 age group. I offered a free flight to each of them at the Chicago Glider Club as a thank you, none of them ever showed up.
I'll continue displaying my LS8 at my RC club's annual Scale show where it gets great attention but recruiting new members is not really a direct consequence.
Herb
Our experience in central Indiana is similar to Herb's.
Following a 3 day exhibit at an event at the AMA headquarters a couple of years ago, we ended up with 4 people coming to Alexandria to fly a glider.
A FAST flight was given away in a drawing and the winner did not come to the airport for his free flight.
In reverse, it seems that many full scale glider pilots break out their RC models after a day of flying or on no fly days at contests.
What can be done to get the RC folks coming to the gliderports?
We have had similar experiences with full scale airplane pilots at airshows. There seems to be a lot of interest in the glider on display, but little or no traffic is generated to the gliderport for a follow up flight.
JS
March 28th 14, 02:43 AM
Hang glider and paraglider pilots are more likely to cross to the dark side: sailplanes. Sooner or later there's a realisation that the landing gear needs replacement. They already know most of what it takes to keep a glider airborne.
One paraglider pilot I took up, after following my control inputs, discovered it's easier to look at the top of the panel and horizon than the ASI... And he'd never flown with either an ASI or any part of the aircraft in front of him before.
Perhaps motorcyclists represent a better audience than R/C pilots.
Jim
Bill D
March 28th 14, 04:07 AM
On Thursday, March 27, 2014 6:51:58 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> Our experience in central Indiana is similar to Herb's.
>
>
>
> Following a 3 day exhibit at an event at the AMA headquarters a couple of years ago, we ended up with 4 people coming to Alexandria to fly a glider.
>
>
>
> A FAST flight was given away in a drawing and the winner did not come to the airport for his free flight.
>
>
>
> In reverse, it seems that many full scale glider pilots break out their RC models after a day of flying or on no fly days at contests.
>
>
>
> What can be done to get the RC folks coming to the gliderports?
>
>
>
> We have had similar experiences with full scale airplane pilots at airshows. There seems to be a lot of interest in the glider on display, but little or no traffic is generated to the gliderport for a follow up flight.
Welcome to the consumer century. Many of the people I talk to about soaring say in one way or another, "I can't learn do that." Since there's money to be made convincing people they can't do anything on their own, "doing something" has come to mean writing a check to pay someone else to do it. Consequently, many people regard taking the controls of an aircraft and flying it themselves akin to DIY brain surgery. "Flying" has come to mean buying a ticket.
But, don't give up. There's probably only about .1% -.01% of the population with the "glider gene" so, on average, one would have to talk to 10,000 people to find one. On the bright side, that means there's 30,000 - 300,000 people out there who don't yet know they have it.
Ramy[_2_]
March 28th 14, 04:24 AM
Perhaps the RC folks believe it is as common to crash a glider as it is to crash an RC glider...
Ramy
Frank Whiteley
March 28th 14, 05:51 AM
On Thursday, March 27, 2014 6:51:58 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> Our experience in central Indiana is similar to Herb's.
>
>
>
> Following a 3 day exhibit at an event at the AMA headquarters a couple of years ago, we ended up with 4 people coming to Alexandria to fly a glider.
>
>
>
> A FAST flight was given away in a drawing and the winner did not come to the airport for his free flight.
>
>
>
> In reverse, it seems that many full scale glider pilots break out their RC models after a day of flying or on no fly days at contests.
>
>
>
> What can be done to get the RC folks coming to the gliderports?
>
>
>
> We have had similar experiences with full scale airplane pilots at airshows. There seems to be a lot of interest in the glider on display, but little or no traffic is generated to the gliderport for a follow up flight.
Perhaps it's the approach and follow-up. The R12/CA groups offered up to 17 rides to those 135 signing up for the glider flight drawing at AMA Expo in Ontario, CA. Only 77 confirmed their interest in the follow-up e-mail, so the drawing was scaled back to 9 flights. About five sought rides apart from the drawing. One club got 10-12 new members and a few were ready to join at the Expo. The Condor experience was very popular with youth. I've been advised that Southern California Soaring Academy soloed 26 students last year and has a third K-21 on order as a result of the demand.
In past years, Orange County Soaring Association did the flight drawing and collected e-mails. Larry Tuohino would then blast these e-mails with the offer of the glider pilot ground school on six Saturdays for a nominal fee, $25 or $50. Then they would ask if the ground school people would like to take a flight. Each e-mail blast would bring in 4-6 people from the list of collected e-mails. Your demonstrated interest and enthusiasm may just be contagious to others.
A few years back, the Cleveland Soaring Society had to move due to loss of their private strip. In moving, they lost enough marginal members that they were in danger of not having enough funds for annuals and insurance. Starting with 17, the waved the soaring flag, committed to being friendly and engaging to potential members and used the SSA Introductory Membership (3-month, one-time good deal, available with or without the FAST package) and a local intro membership in their chapter to attract potential members. All but two that took this intro membership opportunity transitioned into full members and they ended with season with 35. At the end of the following season, they had grown to 45, which is about the average size of an SSA chapter. They too have been through the challenges of a training accident and loss of their L-13's, but currently have 37 members at the start of the season. I hope they will have information and representation in Toledo also and that those in the booth will collect and distribute contact information on those indicating interest to chapters and commercial operations that can follow-up.
Frank Whiteley
Sean Fidler
March 28th 14, 06:03 PM
Obviously, I personally think there is some real potential in the SSA being part of this event.
1) The expense to the SSA is very, very low. The SSA members in the booth are volunteering their time and travel costs. So basically this is nearly free to the SSA. If this turns out to be fruitless for the SSA from an awareness and selling FAST packages perspective, it was not a major expense to experiment with the idea.
2) The audience of this show is absolutely huge. A couple hundred thousand attendees are expected! In addition, the average attendee of this event is planning on spending some real money. $150 for an SSA FAST program voucher is a drop in the bucket compared to the money these attendee's are spending on other RC products and equipment at the show. These folks are at the show ready to buy new products. It is possible that they will be willing reprioritize some of their RC budget, in this environment, if we do a good job of helping them get excited about learning to fly real gliders and educate then on the numerous clubs and commercial operations in the region.
We will see in a week or so how this went. Lane (Sun and Fun) is trying to sell 100 fast passes I believe. We are going to try and sell as many as we can, and maybe 50 would be a good goal. Who know's, maybe we can do more than 50.
For me its a great excuse to be at the show and have alot of fun talking about flying.
Sean
On Thursday, March 27, 2014 9:42:52 PM UTC-4, gotovkotzepkoi wrote:
> This is a very good idea. The more exposure the better. I had no idea
>
> that RC age group was so high. But then again the last time I checked
>
> this hobby costs a lot of money and often ends in smashed
>
> airplanes....so one needs a healthy reserve of cash. That might explain
>
> part of it.
>
>
>
> What I see for the future, however, does not bode very well for a
>
> possible transition from RC to real soaring. Take FPV and products like
>
> Oculus Rift for instance. The more virtual soaring simulates the 3D
>
> experience of real flying the easier and cheaper it will become for fat
>
> little kids to sit in their basements on beautiful sunny days with the
>
> shades drawn in front of their humming computers and play while they
>
> chug coke and eat potato chips. That's happening already. If Condor ever
>
> upgrades such that the sceneries and other graphics are more realistic
>
> then virtual soaring will take off too and make real soaring seem
>
> quaint, expensive and dangerous to many.
>
>
>
> Look what happened to the sport of rock climbing for instance. There was
>
> a time when people climbed on real rocks outside someplace. Now, indoor
>
> climbing at rock gyms has all but supplanted the real thing. Why? It's
>
> safe, you don't get dirty, you don't have to hike to the base of rocks,
>
> you don't have to deal with rockfall, spiders, the observers one needs
>
> for the show off factor are right there, and...the list goes on and on.
>
> Some of these gym climbers never climb on real rocks. Never.
>
>
>
> But all this does not deter from your basic message. Keep up these good
>
> initiatives and surely a few people will become interested in soaring.
>
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> gotovkotzepkoi
On Thursday, March 27, 2014 9:24:49 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
> Perhaps the RC folks believe it is as common to crash a glider as it is to crash an RC glider...
> Ramy
It's a combination of that and cost. They feel there is a certain risk and that flying RC airplanes, gliders, helis and perhaps FPV fulfills their aviation needs safely and at much less cost.
Bill D
March 29th 14, 04:07 AM
On Friday, March 28, 2014 4:04:03 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> On Thursday, March 27, 2014 9:24:49 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
>
> > Perhaps the RC folks believe it is as common to crash a glider as it is to crash an RC glider...
>
> > Ramy
>
>
>
> It's a combination of that and cost. They feel there is a certain risk and that flying RC airplanes, gliders, helis and perhaps FPV fulfills their aviation needs safely and at much less cost.
Careful with generalizations. It all depends on the individual.
I recall a visit to my model airplane club in Alamogordo, NM by Larry Edgar and possibly John Robinson who presented a talk with 16mm movies of the Sierra Wave Project. As a 16 year old, It was like WOW! A few years later I discovered an LK10A at Lake Elsinore, CA that I could buy a ride in - I wasted no time. One ride and I was hooked.
Mike the Strike
March 29th 14, 01:46 PM
Tucson Soaring Club has several members (myself included) who started out life as aircraft modelers, some of whom transitioned through hang-gliders or paragliders.
Some of our members even fly big RC planes for a living!
Mike
son_of_flubber
March 29th 14, 03:04 PM
On Thursday, March 27, 2014 9:42:52 PM UTC-4, gotovkotzepkoi wrote:
> The more virtual soaring simulates the 3D
> experience of real flying the easier and cheaper it will become for fat
> little kids to sit in their basements on beautiful sunny days with the
> shades drawn in front of their humming computers
Seriously. Transitioning to virtual soaring is part of my life plan for 5-15 years down the road. I aim to accumulate as much real world soaring experience as possible in the meantime, because I'm pretty sure that real world soaring experience/memories will make virtual soaring much more fun.
> If Condor ever upgrades such that the sceneries and other graphics are more realistic then virtual soaring will take off too and make real soaring seem
quaint, expensive and dangerous to many.
>
Acknowledging and dealing with the REAL risk of fatality or injury is part of what makes soaring compelling. That factor is part of all 'mortal sports', SCUBA, Sky diving, Mountain Climbing, Skiing, Auto racing, Hunting and Target Shooting etc.. Shooting a real gun at a target is a lot more fun than shooting an air-pistol. Gambling is exciting and it is especially rewarding when skill and attentiveness mitigates the risks. To get anything close to same reward in the virtual world, you have to pretend that you can die, or plug into memories of past experiences.
Martin Gregorie[_5_]
March 29th 14, 09:21 PM
On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 10:46:31 -0700, son_of_flubber wrote:
> And I suppose that (especially if you build your own model planes) your
> risk of crash and loss ups the ante by adding real mitigatable risk
> (compared to sims).
>
Don't forget I said I fly Free Flight models. No RC. No control after
launch. Read this if the term is unfamiliar:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_flight_%28model_aircraft%29
The main risks for a F/F model are loss if the dethermaliser doesn't work
or landing damage. If you're flying on a nice field, neither is very
likely.
> I wonder if the life transitions sim_flying --> real_flying and
> real_flying --> sim_flying are equivalent? I've relatively little
> sim_flying experience (exclusively Condor)and it seems very real to me.
> Plus some older minds are better able to revel in reminiscent.
>
To my mind, the limited field of view is a major,MAJOR demerit, which is
why I mentioned wanting some sort of spherical projection system or the
type of VR goggles that don't yet exist. In addition, you really want a
sound system that can make a decent fist of reproducing airflow noise as
well as the vario and FLARM sounds and, I still think some full motion
system wound be nice.
> That said, I will probably give the RC glider scene a try as some point.
>
I have friends who fly F3K discus launch RC gliders: that looks
interesting.
--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
Two Shoes (Judson Knowles)
March 29th 14, 09:40 PM
Discus launches are so cool! Amazing ho high they can get them up...
On Saturday, March 29, 2014 3:21:06 PM UTC-6, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> I have friends who fly F3K discus launch RC gliders: that looks
>
> interesting.
>
Dan Marotta
March 30th 14, 05:13 PM
Realistic? When you "fly" Condor, do your feet get cold? Do you hear the
"hiss" of the oxygen regulator? Do you pee in a baggie or get up and go to
the bathroom? When you "land out" do you wait hours for a retrieve (while
drinking beer with a pleasant farmer) or do you simply rewind to launch
point and have another go?
"son_of_flubber" > wrote in message
...
On Saturday, March 29, 2014 1:28:00 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> If/when flying becomes unsafe for me, I may well remain a social club
>
> member but I'll give simming a miss and return to model flying instead:
And I suppose that (especially if you build your own model planes) your risk
of crash and loss ups the ante by adding real mitigatable risk (compared to
sims).
I wonder if the life transitions sim_flying --> real_flying and
real_flying --> sim_flying are equivalent? I've relatively little
sim_flying experience (exclusively Condor)and it seems very real to me.
Plus some older minds are better able to revel in reminiscent.
That said, I will probably give the RC glider scene a try as some point.
son_of_flubber
March 30th 14, 05:58 PM
On Sunday, March 30, 2014 12:13:52 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Realistic? When you "fly" Condor, do your feet get cold?
Yep. I put my feet in a pan of ice water. Definitely adds to the realism.
son_of_flubber
March 30th 14, 06:08 PM
On Saturday, March 29, 2014 5:21:06 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> To my mind, the limited field of view is a major,MAJOR demerit, which is
>
> why I mentioned wanting some sort of spherical projection system or the
>
> type of VR goggles that don't yet exist.
A properly adjusted TrackIR helps a lot with that. But yeah, agreed, MAYBE Condor will step up and support Occulus Rift. (But probably not.)
I expect/hope that an up-to-date modern soaring sim will come from somebody like http://xtremesoaring3d.com/ It would be great if xtremesoaring3d could be used as client to interact with other users using the Condor server for group flying.
son_of_flubber
March 30th 14, 06:20 PM
On Saturday, March 29, 2014 5:21:06 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> I have friends who fly F3K discus launch RC gliders: that looks
> interesting.
Oh wow. Gotta try that this summer. Looks like something one could find in the geographic aura of MIT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGvllx83zAw
Sean Fidler
March 30th 14, 06:46 PM
I'll be bringing mine (Blaster 2) to Perry. They are great fun and a lot easier to master than it looks! I can usually train people to make 150-200 ft launches in 5-10 minutes.
Sean Fidler
March 30th 14, 07:27 PM
http://youtu.be/onFAnlK0M_4
Dan Marotta
March 30th 14, 08:08 PM
Laughing so hard I have tears running down my cheeks. Thanks for the hoot!
"son_of_flubber" > wrote in message
...
> On Sunday, March 30, 2014 12:13:52 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Realistic? When you "fly" Condor, do your feet get cold?
>
> Yep. I put my feet in a pan of ice water. Definitely adds to the
> realism.
Mike C
March 31st 14, 04:47 AM
On Saturday, March 29, 2014 3:40:19 PM UTC-6, Two Shoes (Judson Knowles) wrote:
> Discus launches are so cool! Amazing ho high they can get them up...
>
>
>
> On Saturday, March 29, 2014 3:21:06 PM UTC-6, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have friends who fly F3K discus launch RC gliders: that looks
>
> >
>
> > interesting.
>
> >
Check this out.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2131928
>
> Careful with generalizations. It all depends on the individual.
>
True, didn't mean to say there would be none making the transition. There are definitely a few of us who have. But it is surprising when I talk to fellow modelers and ask why they don't also fly full size(of any kind), the range of responses I get as to why not. The variety in RC is tremendous at this point in time and is going through a bit of a change/advance(FPV, quads, drones etc). Exciting times there.
Sean Fidler
April 3rd 14, 06:30 PM
Setting up in Toledo today.
Thanks to the 4-6 volunteers who have signed up to work the booth for each of the 4 days! 18 total.
We already sold our first SSA FAST certificate and the show doesn't even begin until tomorrow.
Two Shoes (Judson Knowles)
April 7th 14, 05:00 AM
On Thursday, April 3, 2014 11:30:06 AM UTC-6, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Setting up in Toledo today.
>
>
>
> Thanks to the 4-6 volunteers who have signed up to work the booth for each of the 4 days! 18 total.
>
>
>
> We already sold our first SSA FAST certificate and the show doesn't even begin until tomorrow.
Sean, how'd it go? Got some stats for us data g33k types?
Johnny T
May 10th 15, 07:45 AM
On Monday, April 7, 2014 at 12:00:56 AM UTC-4, Two Shoes (Judson Knowles) wrote:
> Sean, how'd it go? Got some stats for us data g33k types?
I too would love to know how this cross pollination effort was received. Speaking as someone who is in the process of transitioning my hobby from RC to FS - I can offer some insight.
I can see the lure of trying to infiltrate the RC hobby core - it's a HUGE base - and for the most part, we already understand a lot of the basics of flight - heck, we usually understand way more than the basics of flight - moving beyond the basics in RC usually means spending hours upon hours of simulator (or field) time practicing - practicing - practicing. With RC it is definitely different as you are learning a different skill - you are learning hand-eye coordination from the 3rd person point of view with your aircraft (airplane flying at you - right is left and left is right) - that is part of what takes so much practice. Also, things happen very quickly. With roll-rates of many high-performance RC planes > 2 revolutions per second, things happen very fast. Here is a good training video for learning rolling harriers - which I have been practicing on and off, and still can't get the hang of it - just to give you and idea of the crazy hand eye coordination and millisecond timing involved...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBdh9WiVmEM
The thing is... with the RC crowd... you don't have to convince them that aviation is fun or cool... you have to show them how they can use their creativity and enthusiasm in the FS world. That is the big transition.
We are use to watching planes fly through gigantic firework displays and tumble creatively through the sky synchronized to the latest heart-pumping music . You have to somehow convince this crowd that there is as much creativity, experience, and heart pumping adrenalin needed in completing a 500km XC trip as there is in our local weekend fun fly.
One thing: Improve the online experience... more videos... more introduction type videos - more explanations of what XC is - more examples of what a contest is like - no more clubs with dormant web-sites. SSA - this goes for you to! I don't want to read a full page article on what soaring is... show me a video - make it exciting. Also, what is up with all of the low-resolution images of gliders? I don't want to see pixels. I want to see high res images of some of the beautifully elegant modern gliders.
You guys are competing for the hearts of minds of people that are use to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd-nvE_NsyI
and this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIRDHGV5dRo
regardless of all the excitement of RC stuff - I am on of the few who are ready to put everything on ebay, and devote my time to flying the real thing.... now we just gotta figure out how to convert 1000's of me's...
Sean Fidler
May 10th 15, 04:33 PM
We had a lot of traffic at the booth but the result was hard to measure. Very few were willing to spend $150-$200 on the FAST program. What they were interested in was the video (Sailplane Grand Prix, Fine Week of Soaring, etc) that we were playing on a 50 inch LCD screen and the locations of local soaring clubs (Ohio, MI, Indiana, Illinios, etc).
Many took flyers with contact information of these clubs and were mesmerized by the beauty and adventure of the videos, as well as the conversations they had with the volunteers in the booth representing the SSA.
As the SSA spend only $400 on the booth and well over 80,000 people came thru the show...it was probably very good.
I did not do the show this year as it conflicted with contests and we failed to generate the direct revenue from FAST sales that we had hoped. Sun and Fun had the same challenges in selling FAST packages as well.
I think a better plan would be to simply sell rides directly to the local clubs...if I were to do this again. Taking an RC pilot from RC mode all the way to buying a FAST package is quite a bold journey. I think we need to give them a smaller, interim step.
Sean
waremark
May 10th 15, 06:02 PM
The skill shown in the RC videos is extraordinary. However, I don't see that it has any more relevance to learning to fly whether RC or full size than watching a Ken Block video has to learning to drive.
Bill D
May 10th 15, 07:09 PM
On Sunday, May 10, 2015 at 11:02:17 AM UTC-6, waremark wrote:
> The skill shown in the RC videos is extraordinary. However, I don't see that it has any more relevance to learning to fly whether RC or full size than watching a Ken Block video has to learning to drive.
As a one-time model builder and flyer, I can tell you it has a LOT of relevance.
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
May 10th 15, 08:00 PM
On Sunday, May 10, 2015 at 1:02:17 PM UTC-4, waremark wrote:
> The skill shown in the RC videos is extraordinary. However, I don't see that it has any more relevance to learning to fly whether RC or full size than watching a Ken Block video has to learning to drive.
I will say as an "ex CFIG" (8 years officially), previous decent simulator (Microsoft flight sim, etc.) or RC aircraft experience showed a much faster learning curve than, "Walk off the street person" did.
Yes, the student still needed to learn, "Real 3D feelings" that neither of the other routes could provide. But, it was a help in an overwhelming percentage.
BTW, when my son thought "drifting" was cool, I sent him links to Ken Block..... now he thinks WRC drivers are REALLY cool. ;-)
PS, I do as well!
You'd think that RC fliers would be ideal candidates for us but this seems not to be so. I have displayed my LS8-18 at Scale Air Shows at my club and other RC clubs (tons of visitors, fliers from other clubs), have raffled off for years free ASK-21 glider rides, have talked about soaring at club meetings and at virtually every single trip to our RC airfield. People ask about my recent x-country flights and seem to be genuinely impressed/interested in what we do. However, I have not been able to convince one single RC pilot to join our glider club. I have pretty much given up trying to recruit.
Maybe it's me...
Bill D
May 10th 15, 10:02 PM
On Sunday, May 10, 2015 at 2:27:11 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> You'd think that RC fliers would be ideal candidates for us but this seems not to be so. I have displayed my LS8-18 at Scale Air Shows at my club and other RC clubs (tons of visitors, fliers from other clubs), have raffled off for years free ASK-21 glider rides, have talked about soaring at club meetings and at virtually every single trip to our RC airfield. People ask about my recent x-country flights and seem to be genuinely impressed/interested in what we do. However, I have not been able to convince one single RC pilot to join our glider club. I have pretty much given up trying to recruit.
> Maybe it's me...
There's a subtle fear factor that has to be addressed. Model builders/flyers have seen a LOT of them crash and they unconsciously assume that's how full-size glider work. One has to convince them that full-size gliders have a good safety record - at least compared to models.
waremark
May 10th 15, 10:26 PM
On Sunday, 10 May 2015 19:09:21 UTC+1, Bill D wrote:
> On Sunday, May 10, 2015 at 11:02:17 AM UTC-6, waremark wrote:
> > The skill shown in the RC videos is extraordinary. However, I don't see that it has any more relevance to learning to fly whether RC or full size than watching a Ken Block video has to learning to drive.
>
> As a one-time model builder and flyer, I can tell you it has a LOT of relevance.
I think I did not make my point clear. I was not saying that RC or Sim flying was not relevant, I was saying that the videos showed such extreme skill that anyone would realise normal folk would never be able to get to that level.
Johnny T
May 11th 15, 04:48 AM
On Sunday, May 10, 2015 at 5:26:20 PM UTC-4, waremark wrote:
> I think I did not make my point clear. I was not saying that RC or Sim flying was not relevant, I was saying that the videos showed such extreme skill that anyone would realise normal folk would never be able to get to that level.
That is a very valid point. I am not sure it is worthwhile trying to speculate whether the "skill" required for flying RC is relevant to flying FS - I think it is way more individual than that - I would argue though, that the "enthusiasm" for flight is very relevant - and that was the point I was trying to make.
What I was trying to point out is the perceived difference in what I would call "Production Quality" of promotional materials for each sport. There is a huge difference in that area. I was trying to somewhat convey that idea with the videos that I linked to.
The soaring grand prix video is the closest soaring video I have seen that comes close to the production quality that can really get people excited.
As someone who is starting the cross-over, I am getting somewhat frustrated with the information that is available online (or lack thereof). Also, the information that is available, could use a little spicing up. (FAA Glider Flying Handbook is quite nice - but FAQs and a good Acronym glossary are missing)
Many web sites feel like they were created 20 years ago and seem to have lots of missing information.
Many videos fail to convey the excitement - with the exception of the some of the Grand Prix videos mentioned, as well as Bruno B's videos - I wanna see more landouts - more videos of contest flying - more explanations (Info Graphs) of how contests work.
son_of_flubber
May 14th 15, 02:00 AM
On Sunday, May 10, 2015 at 5:02:36 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:
>Model builders/flyers have seen a LOT of them crash and they unconsciously assume that's how full-size glider work.
A fundamental excitement for model flyers is that they might crash their model. When that happens, they get to buy or build another one.
A fundamental excitement of soaring is that I might crash. I'm putting my life on the line.
Sure there are some people who do or have done both, but there is a fundamental personality difference, and I'm not sure that that trait can be changed by marketing and salesmanship.
There are people that already have that fundamental trait.
Expert downhill skiers or snowboarders come to mind. Besides their willingness to risk life and limb in pursuit of sport, they are used to driving to their recreational destination, spending lots of cash, and doing what they can to avoid crashes. They like speed, exposure and a steady learning curve, good scenery and being outdoors. They take lessons. The sensation of downhill skiing is a lot like flying.
Skier/snowboarders are interesting demographic. M/F balanced. Largely single with time for recreation. Disposable income. Not risk adverse.
On Wednesday, May 13, 2015 at 6:00:41 PM UTC-7, son_of_flubber wrote:
> On Sunday, May 10, 2015 at 5:02:36 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:
> >Model builders/flyers have seen a LOT of them crash and they unconsciously assume that's how full-size glider work.
>
> A fundamental excitement for model flyers is that they might crash their model. When that happens, they get to buy or build another one.
>
> A fundamental excitement of soaring is that I might crash. I'm putting my life on the line.
>
This is absolutely not true at all and this attitude shows a great deal of disrespect for the dangers involved with many RC models. Maybe for those RC pilots that are flying $99 Horizon Hobby foamy planes, or a .30 size glow trainer airplane - but let's see you pilot a 700 size RC helicopter and not get weak knees and a huge lump in your throat just thinking about the possibility of death.
The RC Heli world has had a really tough couple of years with at least 5 deaths that I know of directly related to injuries sustained from their helicopter. One of those deaths was a friend of mine - and a sponsored/professional pilot in Brooklyn, NY.
Not a fan of helicopters, ok, then how about standing on cliff bringing a dynamic soaring glider to speeds over 450mph - what do you think would happen if this sailplane (with over a 6 ft wingspan) happened to lose control and head straight for the RC pilot? Hint - it's not simply gonna bounce off.
These pilots do think about death. They are pushing the limits of this sport. But even if you are not pushing the limit of life and limb there is still a major pucker factor even if you are flying say a relatively safe RC jet- there are pilots out there flying $10,000 even $20,000 RC jets. Do you really think these guys want to crash these planes just so they can build the next one? Serious?
I dare you to stand next to either one of the pilots as their spotter without pooping in your pants from overwhelming fear... I have - and can tell you without a doubt it was way more frightening than my first time soloing a glider:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17lmeOfpxVU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfoxjNg-eg0
Sean Fidler
May 14th 15, 03:50 PM
I can second that. Standing next to a 700 size 3d helicopter is one of the most terrifying experiences I have ever ever had.
Imagine a 20 pound, 700mm wide, rabid, angry, highly agitated, alien dragonfly "thing" with carbon samurai swords for wings (that spin at 5,000 rpm) and high voltage electricity for teeth.
The sound these machines make at full, 3d RPM is enough to cause a visceral bodily reaction. As a human being, you know that you are in danger just being around it. It is incredibly dangerous as one broken solder or linkage failure and its light speed path to the ground is impossible to determine (or see).
Additionally, the coordination required to fly these maneuvers is almost superhuman. Pilots make mistakes and can get disorientated. If you are in the way of the rotors under full power they can (and will) cut thru a human very efficiently. I have witnessed several severe crashes (the largest piece was about the size of my forearm) that were fairly close calls to the pilots. Frankly, I find the sport of large scale 3d heli flying to be "a bit reckless."
That the community has not learned from the recent accidents and recommended or required a barrier or net to be used to ensure safety is beyond me. I am surprised that the AMA has not done more.
I fly smaller Heli's now, up to a 450 and that is enjoyable and fun (and slightly safer).
Sorry to hear about your friends accident and be safe!
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