space ship one makes the target

[JP]

We have a civilian astronaut.

yeeeehaaa!

[Tom Sixkiller]

"JP" > wrote in message
...
> We have a civilian astronaut.
>
> yeeeehaaa!

Doesn't NASA have a bunch already? Weren't Neil Armstrong during Gemini and
Apollo, and Harrison Schmidt on Apollo 14, civilians?

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"JP" > wrote in message
...
>
> We have a civilian astronaut.
>
> yeeeehaaa!
>

I believe you mean we have another civilian astronaut.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
> Doesn't NASA have a bunch already? Weren't Neil Armstrong during
> Gemini and Apollo, and Harrison Schmidt on Apollo 14, civilians?
>

Yes, of course. The first civilian astronaut was Joseph Walker, who flew
the X-15 to an altitude of 347,800 feet on July 19, 1963.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Doesn't NASA have a bunch already? Weren't Neil Armstrong during
> > Gemini and Apollo, and Harrison Schmidt on Apollo 14, civilians?
> >
>
> Yes, of course. The first civilian astronaut was Joseph Walker, who flew
> the X-15 to an altitude of 347,800 feet on July 19, 1963.

Were the X-15 pilots classified as "astronauts"?

[Jay Masino]

Tom Sixkiller > wrote:
>> Yes, of course. The first civilian astronaut was Joseph Walker, who flew
>> the X-15 to an altitude of 347,800 feet on July 19, 1963.
>
> Were the X-15 pilots classified as "astronauts"?

I believe it crossed the internationally accepted "boundary" of space
(100km).




--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.oceancityairport.com
http://www.oc-adolfos.com

[Jay Masino]

Tom Sixkiller > wrote:
> "JP" > wrote in message
> ...
>> We have a civilian astronaut.
>>
>> yeeeehaaa!
>
> Doesn't NASA have a bunch already? Weren't Neil Armstrong during Gemini and
> Apollo, and Harrison Schmidt on Apollo 14, civilians?


We have the first astronaut of a civilian funded spacecraft.




--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.oceancityairport.com
http://www.oc-adolfos.com

[Maule Driver]

How about being our first "PA", that is Private Astronaut. Or "CA".

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
> "JP" > wrote in message
> ...
> > We have a civilian astronaut.
> >
> > yeeeehaaa!
>
> Doesn't NASA have a bunch already? Weren't Neil Armstrong during Gemini
and
> Apollo, and Harrison Schmidt on Apollo 14, civilians?
>
>
>

[Andrew Gideon]

What type of flight plan is required? Composite (IFR through class A, VFR
above)? Does Center provide services at these altitudes, or does one fall
back on reporting points?

- Andrew

[G.R. Patterson III]

Maule Driver wrote:
>
> How about being our first "PA", that is Private Astronaut. Or "CA".

A news link posted in another thread refers to him as the first "non-governmental
astronaut".

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

[Andrew Gideon]

Maule Driver wrote:

> How about being our first "PA", that is Private Astronaut. Or "CA".

Given that there's prize money involved, I'd expect that he needs a
commercial license. Needless to say, a high altititude endorsement is
required. Is there an endorsement for "space", is this a "rating", or
what?

Are there any CFIs in the northern NJ area that can provide training for
these <laugh>? Or is it like ATP, where CFI-ness isn't required?

- Andrew

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Jay Masino" > wrote in message
...
> Tom Sixkiller > wrote:
> >> Yes, of course. The first civilian astronaut was Joseph Walker, who
flew
> >> the X-15 to an altitude of 347,800 feet on July 19, 1963.
> >
> > Were the X-15 pilots classified as "astronauts"?
>
> I believe it crossed the internationally accepted "boundary" of space
> (100km).
>
That's true, but that's not (AFAIK) what gets the plot classified as
"Astronaut". Some people with that classification have never been up in
"space", but by the classification are qualified to go there.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Jay Masino" > wrote in message
...
> Tom Sixkiller > wrote:
> > "JP" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> We have a civilian astronaut.
> >>
> >> yeeeehaaa!
> >
> > Doesn't NASA have a bunch already? Weren't Neil Armstrong during Gemini
and
> > Apollo, and Harrison Schmidt on Apollo 14, civilians?
>
>
> We have the first astronaut of a civilian funded spacecraft.

I think the term is "Private Astronaut".

[Dima Volodin]

Tom Sixkiller wrote:
>
> "Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> >
> > "Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > Doesn't NASA have a bunch already? Weren't Neil Armstrong during
> > > Gemini and Apollo, and Harrison Schmidt on Apollo 14, civilians?
> > >
> >
> > Yes, of course. The first civilian astronaut was Joseph Walker, who flew
> > the X-15 to an altitude of 347,800 feet on July 19, 1963.
>
> Were the X-15 pilots classified as "astronauts"?

Yep. http://www.spaceline.org/astronauts/x15pilots.html Also see
http://www.fai.org/astronautics/100km.asp


Dima

[Jim Fisher]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message

> Yes, of course. The first civilian astronaut was Joseph Walker, who flew
> the X-15 to an altitude of 347,800 feet on July 19, 1963.


"Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along, please . . ."

--
Jim Fisher

[Maule Driver]

"Andrew Gideon" > >
> > How about being our first "PA", that is Private Astronaut. Or "CA".
>
> Given that there's prize money involved, I'd expect that he needs a
> commercial license.

Given that it cost $20 mil and the prize is $10 mil, perhaps he is just
sharing costs

[Dave Stadt]

"Jay Masino" > wrote in message
...
> Tom Sixkiller > wrote:
> > "JP" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> We have a civilian astronaut.
> >>
> >> yeeeehaaa!
> >
> > Doesn't NASA have a bunch already? Weren't Neil Armstrong during Gemini
and
> > Apollo, and Harrison Schmidt on Apollo 14, civilians?
>
>
> We have the first astronaut of a civilian funded spacecraft.

I do believe civilians have funded every penny of the US space program.

[Dave Stadt]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Maule Driver wrote:
> >
> > How about being our first "PA", that is Private Astronaut. Or "CA".
>
> A news link posted in another thread refers to him as the first
"non-governmental
> astronaut".

That's not even close to being true.


>
> George Patterson
> None of us is as dumb as all of us.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Dave Stadt" > wrote in message
. ..
> > >>
> > >> yeeeehaaa!
> > >
> > > Doesn't NASA have a bunch already? Weren't Neil Armstrong during
Gemini
> and
> > > Apollo, and Harrison Schmidt on Apollo 14, civilians?
> >
> >
> > We have the first astronaut of a civilian funded spacecraft.
>
> I do believe civilians have funded every penny of the US space program.

Amazing, isn't it, how many people completely miss that point, and too, that
a tax cut "costs the government".

[Jay Masino]

Dave Stadt > wrote:
>> We have the first astronaut of a civilian funded spacecraft.
>
> I do believe civilians have funded every penny of the US space program.

Of course, but I think you know what I meant.



--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.oceancityairport.com
http://www.oc-adolfos.com

[G.R. Patterson III]

Dave Stadt wrote:
>
> I do believe civilians have funded every penny of the US space program.

Not directly.

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Dave Stadt" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> That's not even close to being true.
>

No? Who were the others?

[Andrew Sarangan]

Andrew Gideon > wrote in
online.com:

> What type of flight plan is required? Composite (IFR through class A,
> VFR above)? Does Center provide services at these altitudes, or does
> one fall back on reporting points?
>
> - Andrew
>

Was a TFR established around the launch site?

[Tom Sixkiller]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Dave Stadt wrote:
> >
> > I do believe civilians have funded every penny of the US space program.
>
> Not directly.

Oh? So would you please differentiate/explain the direct and indirect
funding?

[Dave Stadt]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Dave Stadt wrote:
> >
> > I do believe civilians have funded every penny of the US space program.
>
> Not directly.

Let's see now. The government takes my money and spends it directly on the
space program. That's pretty direct in my book.

[Peter Duniho]

"Dave Stadt" > wrote in message
gy.com...
> Let's see now. The government takes my money and spends it directly on
the
> space program. That's pretty direct in my book.

You've got a long way to go before you've made trolling the art form that
Steven has. That said, you sure have gotten an impressive number of nibbles
already, I'll grant you that.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
> Were the X-15 pilots classified as "astronauts"?
>

Those that achieved the requisite altitude were.

[Jay Beckman]

"Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
. 158...
> Andrew Gideon > wrote in
> online.com:
>
> > What type of flight plan is required? Composite (IFR through class A,
> > VFR above)? Does Center provide services at these altitudes, or does
> > one fall back on reporting points?
> >
> > - Andrew
> >
>
> Was a TFR established around the launch site?

Yup

[Ace Pilot]

"Dave Stadt" > wrote in message >...
> "Jay Masino" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Tom Sixkiller > wrote:
> > > "JP" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > >> We have a civilian astronaut.
> > >>
> > >> yeeeehaaa!
> > >
> > > Doesn't NASA have a bunch already? Weren't Neil Armstrong during Gemini
> and
> > > Apollo, and Harrison Schmidt on Apollo 14, civilians?
> >
> >
> > We have the first astronaut of a civilian funded spacecraft.
>
> I do believe civilians have funded every penny of the US space program.

I do believe that is wrong. Military personnel pay federal taxes, so
not every penny came from civilians.

[Dave Stadt]

"Ace Pilot" > wrote in message
om...
> "Dave Stadt" > wrote in message
>...
> > "Jay Masino" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Tom Sixkiller > wrote:
> > > > "JP" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > >> We have a civilian astronaut.
> > > >>
> > > >> yeeeehaaa!
> > > >
> > > > Doesn't NASA have a bunch already? Weren't Neil Armstrong during
Gemini
> > and
> > > > Apollo, and Harrison Schmidt on Apollo 14, civilians?
> > >
> > >
> > > We have the first astronaut of a civilian funded spacecraft.
> >
> > I do believe civilians have funded every penny of the US space program.
>
> I do believe that is wrong. Military personnel pay federal taxes, so
> not every penny came from civilians.

And military pay comes from??????

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Ace Pilot" > wrote in message
om...

> > > > Doesn't NASA have a bunch already? Weren't Neil Armstrong during
Gemini
> > and
> > > > Apollo, and Harrison Schmidt on Apollo 14, civilians?
> > >
> > >
> > > We have the first astronaut of a civilian funded spacecraft.
> >
> > I do believe civilians have funded every penny of the US space program.
>
> I do believe that is wrong. Military personnel pay federal taxes, so
> not every penny came from civilians.

And their pay comes from....???

[Tony Cox]

"Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
. 158...
> Andrew Gideon > wrote in
> online.com:
>
> > What type of flight plan is required? Composite (IFR through class A,
> > VFR above)? Does Center provide services at these altitudes, or does
> > one fall back on reporting points?
> >
> > - Andrew
> >
>
> Was a TFR established around the launch site?

If I remember correctly, it was 7mi radius centered
on KMHV up to FL200.

And isn't airspace above FL600 in the US class E?
Why the need for a change at that altitude?

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Tony Cox" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> And isn't airspace above FL600 in the US class E?
>

Yes.


>
> Why the need for a change at that altitude?
>

Well, above some level there's just no need for it to be Class A anymore.
The level decided upon was FL 600.

[Tony Cox]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Tony Cox" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> >
> > And isn't airspace above FL600 in the US class E?
> >
>
> Yes.
>
>
> >
> > Why the need for a change at that altitude?
> >
>
> Well, above some level there's just no need for it to be Class A anymore.
> The level decided upon was FL 600.

Yes, but surely an IFR flight plan would be just as valid when ascending
through FL600 as when descending below FL180.

Assuming the mode C is properly calibrated, that is.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Tony Cox" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> Yes, but surely an IFR flight plan would be just as valid when ascending
> through FL600 as when descending below FL180.
>

Absolutely, in each case you're leaving Class A airspace and entering Class
E airspace.


>
> Assuming the mode C is properly calibrated, that is.
>

The IFR flight plan is just as valid with an improperly calibrated encoder.

I worked a flight above FL600 just once. About fifteen years ago I was a
controller at Chicago Center working traffic in the Madison, WI, area. A
NASA ER-1 departed MSN requesting an unrestricted climb to FL610. I
coordinated with the high altitude sector and issued the climb. He went up
like a rocket! The Mode C readout couldn't keep up with him. Shortly after
he reported out of FL600 and cancelled IFR, the Mode C read FL600. I asked
a Data Systems Specialist about it and he told me that FL600 and higher will
read out as FL600.

[Paul Sengupta]

"Tony Cox" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Assuming the mode C is properly calibrated, that is.

How do you measure altitude at 328k feet? Surely a standard
barometric device isn't going to work?

Paul

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> I worked a flight above FL600 just once. About fifteen years ago I was a
> controller at Chicago Center working traffic in the Madison, WI, area. A
> NASA ER-1 departed MSN requesting an unrestricted climb to FL610.

What's an ER-1?

> I
> coordinated with the high altitude sector and issued the climb. He went
up
> like a rocket! The Mode C readout couldn't keep up with him. Shortly
after
> he reported out of FL600 and cancelled IFR, the Mode C read FL600. I
asked
> a Data Systems Specialist about it and he told me that FL600 and higher
will
> read out as FL600.

Cool!!!

[Tony Cox]

"Paul Sengupta" > wrote in message
...
> "Tony Cox" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > Assuming the mode C is properly calibrated, that is.
>
> How do you measure altitude at 328k feet? Surely a standard
> barometric device isn't going to work?
>
> Paul

Below about 50 milliBar, people use a Pirani Gauge, which is
essentially a broken light bulb -- the wire gets hotter &
changes electrical resistance as there is less air to cool the
wire. 50mBar is around 75K ft.

Lower than about 10-2 milliBar, Ion gauges are the way to
go. They are like broken vacuum tubes.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
> What's an ER-1?
>

At the time, it was a derivitive of the Lockheed TR-1, which has since been
redesignated U-2R.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Tom Sixkiller wrote:
>
> Oh? So would you please differentiate/explain the direct and indirect
> funding?

Simple. My taxes go to the government or to various companies who collect them for
the government. My Federal income taxes directly fund the U.S. government, 'cause
that's who I pay them to. The space program was and is directly funded by the U.S.
government. Some portion of my tax money is used for that, and you can argue that
this means I indirectly fund the space program.

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

[Jay Beckman]

"Paul Sengupta" > wrote in message
...
> "Tony Cox" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > Assuming the mode C is properly calibrated, that is.
>
> How do you measure altitude at 328k feet? Surely a standard
> barometric device isn't going to work?
>
> Paul
>
>

Ground based radar? Inertial telemetry? GPS?

Good question...

Jay B in AZ

[Paul Sengupta]

"Tony Cox" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> "Paul Sengupta" > wrote in message
> > How do you measure altitude at 328k feet? Surely a standard
> > barometric device isn't going to work?
> >
> > Paul
>
> Below about 50 milliBar, people use a Pirani Gauge, which is
> essentially a broken light bulb -- the wire gets hotter &
> changes electrical resistance as there is less air to cool the
> wire. 50mBar is around 75K ft.
>
> Lower than about 10-2 milliBar, Ion gauges are the way to
> go. They are like broken vacuum tubes.

Ah, thanks!

Paul

[Todd Pattist]

"Paul Sengupta" >
wrote:

>How do you measure altitude at 328k feet? Surely a standard
>barometric device isn't going to work?

I set my Tivo to record the CNN coverage and Dick Rutan
mentioned that there were two tracking stations monitoring
the flight that could verify altitude to about "this far"
and he held his hands about 2 feet apart. I "think" he said
they were optical tracking stations. I presume there's
another form of on-board altimeter for measuring low
pressure or perhaps a radar altimeter.
Todd Pattist
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)
___
Make a commitment to learn something from every flight.
Share what you learn.

[Jim Weir]

As I recall, Dick said something about Edwards and China Lake both tracking it
on radar. At best, that might give you a hundred meter accuracy.

A radar altimeter at 63 miles is a hell of a feat AND subject to severe angle
errors. I'd probably rely on GPS. As Dick indicated, two feet is about the
resolution you can get with a regular old GPS (unenhanced). That is my bet.

Jim


Todd Pattist >
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->I set my Tivo to record the CNN coverage and Dick Rutan
->mentioned that there were two tracking stations monitoring
->the flight that could verify altitude to about "this far"
->and he held his hands about 2 feet apart. I "think" he said
->they were optical tracking stations. I presume there's
->another form of on-board altimeter for measuring low
->pressure or perhaps a radar altimeter.


Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Kyler Laird]

"Jay Beckman" > writes:

>> How do you measure altitude at 328k feet? Surely a standard
>> barometric device isn't going to work?

>Ground based radar? Inertial telemetry? GPS?

Regardless, they'd better make damn sure that they get it right
otherwise someone is likely to run around telling the crowd how
long "to impact"...
http://www.avweb.com/newswire/10_24b/leadnews/187440-1.html

(Also...how does "inertial telemetery" determine altitude?!)

--kyler

[Todd Pattist]

Jim Weir > wrote:

>As I recall, Dick said something about Edwards and China Lake both tracking it
>on radar. At best, that might give you a hundred meter accuracy.

Do you recall him holding his hands apart? I have to admit,
my attention was distracted right about then, so I can't
recall exactly what he said.

>A radar altimeter at 63 miles is a hell of a feat AND subject to severe angle
>errors.

I took a class in the early '70's on radar mapping of Venus
and the moon from ground based radar dishes. The basic
technique says you send out a spherical wave, and the
leading edge of your return wave is the closest point to
you. I don't have any info on radar altimeters, but
shouldn't they be reasonably self aligning if you get the
point below into your beam? I recognize that might be hard
for a craft in free-fall, but if it's not tumbling and the
beam width isn't too narrow ... of course, now you've got
power and detection problems at wide beam and 63 miles. :-)

> I'd probably rely on GPS. As Dick indicated, two feet is about the
>resolution you can get with a regular old GPS (unenhanced). That is my bet.

Makes sense. Cheaper too.

Todd Pattist
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)
___
Make a commitment to learn something from every flight.
Share what you learn.

[Casual Observation]

I'm sure if they were smart enough to figure out how to get up there,
they were also smart enough to figure out how far up they got.

[Casey Wilson]

"Jay Beckman" > wrote in message
news:_tZBc.7933$5t2.5921@fed1read01...
> "Paul Sengupta" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Tony Cox" > wrote in message
> > ink.net...
> > > Assuming the mode C is properly calibrated, that is.
> >
> > How do you measure altitude at 328k feet? Surely a standard
> > barometric device isn't going to work?
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
>
> Ground based radar? Inertial telemetry? GPS?
>
> Good question...
>
> Jay B in AZ

Rutan answered it with "...these data come from the inertial nav
system."

[gatt]

"Dave Stadt" > wrote in message news:SlKBc.745

> > We have the first astronaut of a civilian funded spacecraft.
>
> I do believe civilians have funded every penny of the US space program.

Hey, kids, do you know how to spell PEDANTIC? I knewityoucould.


-c

[gatt]

"Dave Stadt" > wrote in message news:PCVBc.149

> > I do believe that is wrong. Military personnel pay federal taxes, so
> > not every penny came from civilians.
>
> And military pay comes from??????

Trolls.

I'm tired of my tax money going to FAA services going to trolls instead of
humans, so could you kindly not fly?

-c

[gatt]

"Dave Stadt" > wrote in message news:XmKBc.746

> > A news link posted in another thread refers to him as the first
> "non-governmental astronaut".
>
> That's not even close to being true.

What other civilian piloted a craft into space?

[Tom Sixkiller]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Tom Sixkiller wrote:
> >
> > Oh? So would you please differentiate/explain the direct and indirect
> > funding?
>
> Simple. My taxes go to the government or to various companies who collect
them for
> the government. My Federal income taxes directly fund the U.S. government,
'cause
> that's who I pay them to. The space program was and is directly funded by
the U.S.
> government. Some portion of my tax money is used for that, and you can
argue that
> this means I indirectly fund the space program.

George, that's pretty lame.

[G. Burkhart]

Is Space Ship One the first high-wing in space?

[G.R. Patterson III]

Tom Sixkiller wrote:
>
> "G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Tom Sixkiller wrote:
> > >
> > > Oh? So would you please differentiate/explain the direct and indirect
> > > funding?
> >
> > Simple. My taxes go to the government or to various companies who collect
> them for
> > the government. My Federal income taxes directly fund the U.S. government,
> 'cause
> > that's who I pay them to. The space program was and is directly funded by
> the U.S.
> > government. Some portion of my tax money is used for that, and you can
> argue that
> > this means I indirectly fund the space program.
>
> George, that's pretty lame.

No, it's not. I have not sent one penny directly to NASA.

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Tom Sixkiller wrote:
> >
> > "G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > >
> > > Tom Sixkiller wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Oh? So would you please differentiate/explain the direct and
indirect
> > > > funding?
> > >
> > > Simple. My taxes go to the government or to various companies who
collect
> > them for
> > > the government. My Federal income taxes directly fund the U.S.
government,
> > 'cause
> > > that's who I pay them to. The space program was and is directly funded
by
> > the U.S.
> > > government. Some portion of my tax money is used for that, and you can
> > argue that
> > > this means I indirectly fund the space program.
> >
> > George, that's pretty lame.
>
> No, it's not. I have not sent one penny directly to NASA.

Uh, huh!

Were you a congresscritter in a previous life?

I guess of all the money I spent at Wal-Mart, I never sent one cent directly
to Sam Walton...

[Steve Haines]

Neil Armstrong for one, was a civilian. From 1949 to 1952, Armstrong was a
naval aviator, but was a civilian when he piloted Gemini 8 and Apollo 11.

Steve

"gatt" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dave Stadt" > wrote in message news:XmKBc.746
>
> > > A news link posted in another thread refers to him as the first
> > "non-governmental astronaut".
> >
> > That's not even close to being true.
>
> What other civilian piloted a craft into space?
>
>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Steve Haines" > wrote in message
news:1qqCc.1921$CR3.1447@lakeread03...
>
> Neil Armstrong for one, was a civilian. From 1949 to 1952, Armstrong was a
> naval aviator, but was a civilian when he piloted Gemini 8 and Apollo 11.
>

Armstrong was a civilian, but not a "non-governmental astronaut".