Flying from Washington state to Canada

[Ross Oliver]

I am planning my first international flight from the Seattle area to
Port Hardy, BC, Canada during the week of July 4th. I have bought all
the relavent Canadian charts (VFR and IFR), and have Googled for previous
discussions on flying in Canada. However, I would appreciate any
tips on the actual USA -> Canada transition with regard to ATC. Will
US ATC hand off VFR to Canada at the border, or will I need to
call up on my own? "Knock, knock, can I come in, eh?" Same question
for returning to the USA.

Any suggestions on routing? Is it advisable to fly over top of
Widbey Island NAS, or better to remain east and cross to the north?
What is the best route past Victoria heading up Vancouver Island's
east coast?


Thanks,
Ross Oliver

[Mike Rapoport]

US ATC will hand you off to Canadian ATC. The only difference seems to be
that they say "radar identified" instead of "radar contact". You should
file an ICAO flight plan instead of an FAA one. Flight Service will help
you with this one.. AOPA has a booklet about flying to Canada. You have to
enter at an approved airport both entering Canada and re-entering the US.
Be sure you understand and comply with the customs requirements in both
directions! These Airports of Entry are listed in the AOPA guide.

http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/2001/answer0107.html

I am making a similiar flight on Friday from Sandpoint, ID to Ketchikan,
AK.

Have Fun!

Mike
MU-2


"Ross Oliver" > wrote in message
...
>
> I am planning my first international flight from the Seattle area to
> Port Hardy, BC, Canada during the week of July 4th. I have bought all
> the relavent Canadian charts (VFR and IFR), and have Googled for previous
> discussions on flying in Canada. However, I would appreciate any
> tips on the actual USA -> Canada transition with regard to ATC. Will
> US ATC hand off VFR to Canada at the border, or will I need to
> call up on my own? "Knock, knock, can I come in, eh?" Same question
> for returning to the USA.
>
> Any suggestions on routing? Is it advisable to fly over top of
> Widbey Island NAS, or better to remain east and cross to the north?
> What is the best route past Victoria heading up Vancouver Island's
> east coast?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Ross Oliver

[Peter Duniho]

"Ross Oliver" > wrote in message
...
> [...] Will
> US ATC hand off VFR to Canada at the border, or will I need to
> call up on my own? "Knock, knock, can I come in, eh?" Same question
> for returning to the USA.

IFR should be seamless. If I recall, I have been handed off VFR when I've
had VFR flight following, but only if I've specifically asked for it all the
way to my destination. Seems like when I've simply been in contact with
Whidbey for the purpose of transiting the Class C, they simply dropped me
when I left their airspace.

So, if you want ATC handoffs all the way, get flight following right off the
bat, with your destination, and make it clear you want flight following all
the way. That's your best bet for getting proper handoffs. That said, I'm
not aware of any requirement that ATC handle VFR aircraft with handoffs to
the next facility, so you may still find yourself cold-calling the next
facility.

It has been a few years since I crossed that border, and things do change,
so the above could be hopelessly out of date information. :)

> Any suggestions on routing? Is it advisable to fly over top of
> Widbey Island NAS, or better to remain east and cross to the north?
> What is the best route past Victoria heading up Vancouver Island's
> east coast?

Personally, I'd fly up the west side of Whidbey, cut across going over Smith
Island, then over San Juan Island and on over to Vancouver Island. More
scenic that way and more direct, at least from Seattle. Of course, if
you're really daring, just fly direct to Victoria from Seattle; especially
this time of year there will probably be a boat near enough to fish you out
should you have to ditch. :) (Just don't forget how cold the water is).

If you want to go over Whidbey NAS, keep in mind that they'll probably want
you at least at 2500'. I'm guessing that's fine for your cruising altitude
going over the water anyway and in fact you'll probably be even higher
(maybe even above the Class C), but just thought I'd mention that. I can't
say that there's really any benefit to going over the Navy base versus the
more direct routing. Obviously if you're comparing that to flying up I-5
and crossing over at or around the Anacortes/Burlington area, going over the
Navy base is shorter.

I haven't flown beyond the southeastern end of Vancouver Island, so I can't
advise you on your route to Port Hardy. However, I would think that
following the coast would be your best bet. It will be scenic, reasonably
direct, and will have the best chance of keeping you near reasonably settled
areas.

Pete

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
link.net...
> US ATC will hand you off to Canadian ATC. The only difference seems to be
> that they say "radar identified" instead of "radar contact". You should
> file an ICAO flight plan instead of an FAA one. Flight Service will help
> you with this one.. AOPA has a booklet about flying to Canada. You have
to
> enter at an approved airport both entering Canada and re-entering the US.
> Be sure you understand and comply with the customs requirements in both
> directions! These Airports of Entry are listed in the AOPA guide.
>
> http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/2001/answer0107.html
>
> I am making a similiar flight on Friday from Sandpoint, ID to Ketchikan,
> AK.
>
> Have Fun!
>

Let us know how that one goes. If things work out as
hoped/planned/fantasized, the family will make a journey from COS to COE
(fuel stop...on our line of travel) to JNU next summer. You'll be covering
roughly the same route as we will and my wife is "wondering" about crossing
all that desolate territory in BC.

[Andrew Sarangan]

I am planning a similar flight, and from what I understand so far
returning back into the US is the stickiest part. You have to call the
customs agent ahead of time and arrive within 15 minutes of your ETA, and
not even one minute too early. The penalty for arriving without notice is
severe. It is best to make a stop at an airport near the border, call
customs again and depart for a more precise arrival.




(Ross Oliver) wrote in
:

>
> I am planning my first international flight from the Seattle area to
> Port Hardy, BC, Canada during the week of July 4th. I have bought all
> the relavent Canadian charts (VFR and IFR), and have Googled for
previous
> discussions on flying in Canada. However, I would appreciate any
> tips on the actual USA -> Canada transition with regard to ATC. Will
> US ATC hand off VFR to Canada at the border, or will I need to
> call up on my own? "Knock, knock, can I come in, eh?" Same question
> for returning to the USA.
>
> Any suggestions on routing? Is it advisable to fly over top of
> Widbey Island NAS, or better to remain east and cross to the north?
> What is the best route past Victoria heading up Vancouver Island's
> east coast?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Ross Oliver

[Mike Rapoport]

You should inform her that its not desolate...its populated...there are
about 20,000 grizzley bears in BC.

Mike
MU-2


"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> > US ATC will hand you off to Canadian ATC. The only difference seems to
be
> > that they say "radar identified" instead of "radar contact". You should
> > file an ICAO flight plan instead of an FAA one. Flight Service will
help
> > you with this one.. AOPA has a booklet about flying to Canada. You
have
> to
> > enter at an approved airport both entering Canada and re-entering the
US.
> > Be sure you understand and comply with the customs requirements in both
> > directions! These Airports of Entry are listed in the AOPA guide.
> >
> > http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot/2001/answer0107.html
> >
> > I am making a similiar flight on Friday from Sandpoint, ID to
Ketchikan,
> > AK.
> >
> > Have Fun!
> >
>
> Let us know how that one goes. If things work out as
> hoped/planned/fantasized, the family will make a journey from COS to COE
> (fuel stop...on our line of travel) to JNU next summer. You'll be covering
> roughly the same route as we will and my wife is "wondering" about
crossing
> all that desolate territory in BC.
>
>
>
>
>
>

[C J Campbell]

You are usually handed off to Canadian ATC well before entering Canadian
airspace.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
. 158...
> I am planning a similar flight, and from what I understand so far
> returning back into the US is the stickiest part. You have to call the
> customs agent ahead of time and arrive within 15 minutes of your ETA, and
> not even one minute too early. The penalty for arriving without notice is
> severe. It is best to make a stop at an airport near the border, call
> customs again and depart for a more precise arrival.
>

I believe the penalty for arriving early is having to wait in your plane
with the doors closed until the Customs Agent arrives. Also, IIUC, you can
contact the FBO by Unicom and have them update the agent on your arrival
ETA. This assumes, too, that you're arriving "off hours".

[[email protected]]

Here is the checklist that I have used to fly to and fro Canada. Best viewed
with a fixed width font.

YMMV - check the procedure for yourself as things may have changed in the last
year.

Cell phones in Canada may or may not work. Always have a land line back up
plan.

======================
From U.S. into Canada:

1. File a flight plan with U.S. FSS at 1-800-WX-Brief (1-800-992-7433)

* File ONLY for the border-crossing leg.

* Ask about your border-crossing squawk-code. This code will
probably not be available until you take off and open your flight
plan, but ask them anyway. DO NOT CROSS THE BORDER WITHOUT
SQUAWKING THIS CODE.

2. Contact Canadian Customs at 1-888-CAN-PASS (1-888-226-7277) at least two
hours and no more than 24 hours before arrival

* When you first phone and they ask you a bunch of questions, you
are actually making a CUSTOMS DECLARATION. Be sure to ask them for
their name, station, and the declaration report number. They will
not offer this information unless you ask, but it may come in handy
for the next step.

3. Take off, and IMMEDIATELY open your flight plan with the U.S. FSS.

* The FSS operator will give you a border-crossing squawk-code.
If they do not - ASK!

4. Set your border-crossing squawk-code.

5. If possible, close your flight plan when you have the Airport Of Entry
(AOE) in sight.

* Canadian FSS frequency is 126.7
* Canadian FSS Kamloops 1-866-WX-Brief (1-866-992-7433)

6. Land at the AOE and taxi to Canadian Customs

* If your flight plan is still open, ask the tower if they can
close it for you. If not: call Canadian FSS Kamloops
1-866-WX-Brief (1-866-992-7433).

* Call 1-888-CAN-PASS (1-888-226-7277) and inform them of your
arrival.

* Get your Customs Report Number from the agent(s). Write it down!

* If you are continuing your flight, then ground control or the
control tower of the AOE will assign your in-country squawk-code.
Do not take-off without an in-country squawk-code.


=====================
From Canada into U.S.

1. File your flight plan with Canadian FSS Kamloops 1-866-WX-BRIEF
(1-866-992-7433). Land lines may be necessary.

* File ONLY for the border-crossing leg.

Ask about your border-crossing squawk-code. You probably can't
get this squawk code from this facility so see #3 below. DO NOT
CROSS THE BORDER WITHOUT SQUAWKING THIS CODE.

2. Contact U.S. Customs at your chosen AOE and make an appointment.

* Bellingham : 1-360-734-5463

* Do not be more than 15 minutes early or late. Update your
arrival time by contacting an FSS, either by phone or radio.

3. Set your border-crossing squawk-code.

* If you haven't gotten your border-crossing squawk-code call
Canadian ATC IFR Flight Planning at 1-888-987-2633 and request
one. Even if you are flying VFR.

4. Take off, and IMMEDIATELY open your flight plan if necessary. Canadian
flight plans seem to assume takeoff times, and will be opened automatically.

5. If possible, close your flight plan when you have the AOE in sight.

* U.S. FSS for Bellingham frequency is 122.15

6. Land at your AOE (Airport of Entry) and taxi to U.S. Customs

* If your flight plan is still open, ask the tower if they can
close it for you. If not, close it by FSS radio or call
1-800-WX-Brief (1-800-992-7433) and close it.

* If you are more than 15 minutes late or early, gingerly call
local U.S. Customs:

* Bellingham : 1-360-734-5463

[DanH]

wrote:
>[original post snipped]

Wow! What an awesome post. Thanks for the great information. I'm
planning a trip to San Juan Island this summer, but I may just extend it
in to Canada, now that I have this great border crossing checklist.

Thanks again!
DanH

[Tom Sixkiller]

http://www.edt.com/homewing/international/

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> You should inform her that its not desolate...its populated...there are
> about 20,000 grizzley bears in BC.

Well, I told her that.

She asked me if I still had my old .44 Magnum and a lot of ammo. :~(



>
> Mike
> MU-2
>
> > >
> > > Have Fun!
> > >
> >
> > Let us know how that one goes. If things work out as
> > hoped/planned/fantasized, the family will make a journey from COS to COE
> > (fuel stop...on our line of travel) to JNU next summer. You'll be
covering
> > roughly the same route as we will and my wife is "wondering" about
> crossing
> > all that desolate territory in BC.

[NW_PILOT]

Now that the FAA decided to send me my Aircraft Registration I am going to
be making the same trip.



"Ross Oliver" > wrote in message
...
>
> I am planning my first international flight from the Seattle area to
> Port Hardy, BC, Canada during the week of July 4th. I have bought all
> the relavent Canadian charts (VFR and IFR), and have Googled for previous
> discussions on flying in Canada. However, I would appreciate any
> tips on the actual USA -> Canada transition with regard to ATC. Will
> US ATC hand off VFR to Canada at the border, or will I need to
> call up on my own? "Knock, knock, can I come in, eh?" Same question
> for returning to the USA.
>
> Any suggestions on routing? Is it advisable to fly over top of
> Widbey Island NAS, or better to remain east and cross to the north?
> What is the best route past Victoria heading up Vancouver Island's
> east coast?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Ross Oliver

[EDR]

In article >, Tom Sixkiller
> wrote:

> "Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > You should inform her that its not desolate...its populated...there are
> > about 20,000 grizzley bears in BC.

> Well, I told her that.
> She asked me if I still had my old .44 Magnum and a lot of ammo. :~(

Interesting... how does one get a handgun through Canadian Customs? ;-)

[Robert M. Gary]

In addition to notifying customs before arrival (CAN PASS going into
Canada and the various numbers going into the U.S.) you are required
to be on a flight plan (VFR or IFR) when crossing the boarder. In the
U.S. its as expected. In Canada it appears you call 866-WX-BRIEF to
file your flight plan. You can open your VFR flight plan with tower in
Canada. Make sure you flight plans are open before crossing.
My understanding is that after you notify Canadia customs of your
arrival there is a 90% chance they will clear you through right there
on the phone, rather than see you in person.

I'm getting ready for my first Canada but I've done Mexico many times.
Coming back to the U.S., its not unusual for customs to be very, very
late. Sometimes you must wait around for them to be ready for you.
Also, Mexican officials are there to help, U.S. officials are there to
ensure you are following every letter of every law. I understand the
same in Canada.

-Robert


(Ross Oliver) wrote in message >...
> I am planning my first international flight from the Seattle area to
> Port Hardy, BC, Canada during the week of July 4th. I have bought all
> the relavent Canadian charts (VFR and IFR), and have Googled for previous
> discussions on flying in Canada. However, I would appreciate any
> tips on the actual USA -> Canada transition with regard to ATC. Will
> US ATC hand off VFR to Canada at the border, or will I need to
> call up on my own? "Knock, knock, can I come in, eh?" Same question
> for returning to the USA.
>
> Any suggestions on routing? Is it advisable to fly over top of
> Widbey Island NAS, or better to remain east and cross to the north?
> What is the best route past Victoria heading up Vancouver Island's
> east coast?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Ross Oliver

[Mike Rapoport]

FYI According to a friends wife who is an ER doctor, everyone who has shot
a grizzley bear in self defense in Wyoming with a handgun has been mauled.

Mike
MU-2


"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > You should inform her that its not desolate...its populated...there are
> > about 20,000 grizzley bears in BC.
>
> Well, I told her that.
>
> She asked me if I still had my old .44 Magnum and a lot of ammo. :~(
>
>
>
> >
> > Mike
> > MU-2
> >
> > > >
> > > > Have Fun!
> > > >
> > >
> > > Let us know how that one goes. If things work out as
> > > hoped/planned/fantasized, the family will make a journey from COS to
COE
> > > (fuel stop...on our line of travel) to JNU next summer. You'll be
> covering
> > > roughly the same route as we will and my wife is "wondering" about
> > crossing
> > > all that desolate territory in BC.
>
>

[Journeyman]

In article >, Ross Oliver wrote:
>
> discussions on flying in Canada. However, I would appreciate any
> tips on the actual USA -> Canada transition with regard to ATC. Will
> US ATC hand off VFR to Canada at the border, or will I need to
> call up on my own? "Knock, knock, can I come in, eh?" Same question
> for returning to the USA.

As you seem to realize, you do have to be on a flight plan (VFR or
IFR) _and_ talking to ATC while crossing the border (with a discrete
squawk code). Clearly, you've done your homework. :-)

If you're IFR, the handoff is automatic. If you're VFR, you call up
the U.S. controller and tell them you're going into Canada. The
handoff seems to be automatic. I've done this with both Whidbey, WA
and Burlington, VT approach controllers. The both probably get enough
cross-border traffic to know the procedures.

> Any suggestions on routing? Is it advisable to fly over top of
> Widbey Island NAS, or better to remain east and cross to the north?
> What is the best route past Victoria heading up Vancouver Island's
> east coast?

Going to San Juan Island/Victoria BC from Seattle, I usually go to
direct to Everet (PAE), then turn northwest. This keeps you closer
to land a little longer and there's a nice narrow peninsula tha
points directly to your destination.

HTH,

Morris

[Journeyman]

In article >, wrote:
> Here is the checklist that I have used to fly to and fro Canada. Best viewed
> with a fixed width font.

Good stuff.


> * Ask about your border-crossing squawk-code. This code will
> probably not be available until you take off and open your flight
> plan, but ask them anyway. DO NOT CROSS THE BORDER WITHOUT
> SQUAWKING THIS CODE.
[snip]
> * The FSS operator will give you a border-crossing squawk-code.
> If they do not - ASK!

What's this about getting a squawk code from FSS? I thought you had to
be talking to ATC (and getting the code from them). That's how I've
always done it (for some value of always).


> 6. Land at the AOE and taxi to Canadian Customs

When I flew into Montreal, they just asked me what FBO I was planning to
go to. Two flights in the last month: on the first one, was cleared by
telephone; on the second one, was met by an officer who was already at
the FBO.


> * If you are continuing your flight, then ground control or the
> control tower of the AOE will assign your in-country squawk-code.
> Do not take-off without an in-country squawk-code.

Canada uses 1200 for VFR flights, unless you're getting radar surveillance
(flight following).


> 4. Take off, and IMMEDIATELY open your flight plan if necessary. Canadian
> flight plans seem to assume takeoff times, and will be opened automatically.

Not quite (unless they've changed things recently). At an uncontrolled
airport, they assume that you crashed on takeoff if you don't open your flight
plan.


Morris

[Aviv Hod]

Mike Rapoport wrote:
> FYI According to a friends wife who is an ER doctor, everyone who has shot
> a grizzley bear in self defense in Wyoming with a handgun has been mauled.
>
> Mike
> MU-2
>

Hmmm... Let's think about this. She's an ER doctor - why would she
ever come in contact with any of the people who were successful at
thwarting an attack?

Just something to think about. Anecdotal evidence can seem very
convincing until you step back and see what you may be missing.

But that doesn't change the moral of the story: when up against a
Grizzly, a bigger gun is better :-)

-Aviv

[gatt]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message

> Also, Mexican officials are there to help, U.S. officials are there to
> ensure you are following every letter of every law.

Unless of course you're Mexican.

And if you go to Canada, don't tell 'em you're going to see Pink Floyd or if
at all possible they will run their drug-beagle up your butt. Drove over
one time and they checked everything from my pocket lint to the camera
bag...except the glove box. Next time, I told 'em I was going to look at
the Spitfire at Abbottsford and they sent me right through.

-c

[smackey]

wrote in message >...
> Here is the checklist that I have used to fly to and fro Canada. Best viewed
> with a fixed width font.
....
DO NOT CROSS THE BORDER WITHOUT
> SQUAWKING THIS CODE.
> ...
> > * The FSS operator will give you a border-crossing squawk-code.
> If they do not - ASK!
>
> ====================
> From Canada into U.S.
> ...
> DO NOT
> CROSS THE BORDER WITHOUT SQUAWKING THIS CODE.
> ...
> > 3. Set your border-crossing squawk-code.
>
> * If you haven't gotten your border-crossing squawk-code call
> Canadian ATC IFR Flight Planning at 1-888-987-2633 and request
> one. Even if you are flying VFR.
>
> I flew to Canada a few years ago, and didn't need a squawk code either direction. Is this something new since 9/11?

[Mike Rapoport]

Good points! She actually did some research into this and since the griz is
an endangered species there is data. I suppose that there could be
unreported attacks/shootings. The basic problem is that you are talking
about trying to kill a large charging animal and if it doesn't die in about
two seconds then you are going to get mauled. The guides in AK carry 12ga
slug guns. The people familiar with the bears will tell you to carry the
pepper spray. We have Grizzleys here in N. Idaho but I have never seen one
at close range and the ones that I have seen in AK have all been from a
vehicle. I can tell you there is nothing spookier than coming upon a
steaming pile of poop and 16" tracks where there isn't a person for 15
miles! Much scarier than a thunderstorm anyway
..
Mike
MU-2

"Aviv Hod" > wrote in
message ...
> Mike Rapoport wrote:
> > FYI According to a friends wife who is an ER doctor, everyone who has
shot
> > a grizzley bear in self defense in Wyoming with a handgun has been
mauled.
> >
> > Mike
> > MU-2
> >
>
> Hmmm... Let's think about this. She's an ER doctor - why would she
> ever come in contact with any of the people who were successful at
> thwarting an attack?
>
> Just something to think about. Anecdotal evidence can seem very
> convincing until you step back and see what you may be missing.
>
> But that doesn't change the moral of the story: when up against a
> Grizzly, a bigger gun is better :-)
>
> -Aviv

[Tom Sixkiller]

"EDR" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Tom Sixkiller
> > wrote:
>
> > "Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
> > ink.net...
> > > You should inform her that its not desolate...its populated...there
are
> > > about 20,000 grizzley bears in BC.
>
> > Well, I told her that.
> > She asked me if I still had my old .44 Magnum and a lot of ammo. :~(
>
> Interesting... how does one get a handgun through Canadian Customs? ;-)

By not landing in Canada (COE to JNU) except to crash.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
link.net...
> FYI According to a friends wife who is an ER doctor, everyone who has
shot
> a grizzley bear in self defense in Wyoming with a handgun has been mauled.
>

Did he happen to say what they were carrying, or if they were competent
handgunners? I do know of one case, several years ago, where a guy tried to
take out a grizzley with a .38 special he was carrying for snakes.

> > "Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
> > ink.net...
> > > You should inform her that its not desolate...its populated...there
are
> > > about 20,000 grizzley bears in BC.
> >
> > Well, I told her that.
> >
> > She asked me if I still had my old .44 Magnum and a lot of ammo. :~(
> >

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
link.net...
> Good points! She actually did some research into this and since the griz
is
> an endangered species there is data. I suppose that there could be
> unreported attacks/shootings. The basic problem is that you are talking
> about trying to kill a large charging animal and if it doesn't die in
about
> two seconds then you are going to get mauled. The guides in AK carry 12ga
> slug guns.

See my remarks about they guy who took one on with a .38.

> The people familiar with the bears will tell you to carry the
> pepper spray.

Pepper spray is only good within about 15 feet and then only upwind.

> We have Grizzleys here in N. Idaho but I have never seen one
> at close range and the ones that I have seen in AK have all been from a
> vehicle. I can tell you there is nothing spookier than coming upon a
> steaming pile of poop and 16" tracks where there isn't a person for 15
> miles! Much scarier than a thunderstorm anyway.

Considering peoples poor marksmanship when confronting bad guys (human) I
can see where their skills would deteriorate confronting something much
bigger and much badder.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Tom Sixkiller wrote:
>
> > Interesting... how does one get a handgun through Canadian Customs? ;-)
>
> By not landing in Canada (COE to JNU) except to crash.

That doesn't get it *through* Customs; that gets it *around* Customs.

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Tom Sixkiller wrote:
> >
> > > Interesting... how does one get a handgun through Canadian Customs?
;-)
> >
> > By not landing in Canada (COE to JNU) except to crash.
>
> That doesn't get it *through* Customs; that gets it *around* Customs.
>
Actually, "over" customs (we're flying, not driving).

[Philip Sondericker]

in article . net, Mike
Rapoport at wrote on 6/22/04 9:05 PM:

> The only difference seems to be that they say "radar identified" instead of
> "radar contact".

They also say "aboot" instead of "about".

[Ross Oliver]

Andrew Sarangan > wrote:
>I am planning a similar flight, and from what I understand so far
>returning back into the US is the stickiest part. You have to call the
>customs agent ahead of time and arrive within 15 minutes of your ETA, and
>not even one minute too early. The penalty for arriving without notice is
>severe. It is best to make a stop at an airport near the border, call
>customs again and depart for a more precise arrival.


Oh, I already have the ideal solution to this problem. I have planned
my trip so I will be returning from Canada directly to the NWEAA Fly-in
at Arlington. According to the nweaa.org web site, Customs services will
be provided on site, and the advance notification requirement is WAIVED
during the fly-in. Neat, huh?

[[email protected]]

Do not be surprised if Canadian Customs does not show up for your appointment.
They did not show up the last two times I flew into Abbotsford. If Canadian
customs does not show up, CAN-PASS will give you your Customs Report Number.

The U.S. takes its border more seriously and expect the U.S. customs agents on
your return to be professional and business-like. However, they are not your
friends. They have the serious job of preventing entry to people who want to
kill you and your family. Remember, the FIRST thing you have to pass is the
ATTITUDE TEST. Everything after that is downhill. They will check your
paperwork, so get out of the plane with everything you will need. They work in
pairs, one up close dealing with you, and one back a few steps providing cover.
Let them do their jobs.

I have always found the U.S. Customs agents to be professional, polite, and
respectful in their demeanor. Please extend them the same courtesy.

Demonick
Seattle, WA

[Mike Rapoport]

And "eh" at the end of every sentence.

Mike
MU-2


"Philip Sondericker" > wrote in message
...
> in article . net, Mike
> Rapoport at wrote on 6/22/04 9:05 PM:
>
> > The only difference seems to be that they say "radar identified" instead
of
> > "radar contact".
>
> They also say "aboot" instead of "about".
>

[Mike Rapoport]

I don't think it is a much a marksmanship problem as simple timing. If you
are shooting in self defense, the bear is close and getting closer at 35mph.
Even if you hit the bear in a vital area it is still going to take some time
for it to die. It isn't likely to die before it reaches you and gives you a
swat and a bite. Even if you shoot a bear with a .338, the bear doesn't
just fall right over.

The bears usually run from pepperspray, it doesn't incapacitate them.

Mike
MU-2

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike Rapoport" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> > Good points! She actually did some research into this and since the
griz
> is
> > an endangered species there is data. I suppose that there could be
> > unreported attacks/shootings. The basic problem is that you are talking
> > about trying to kill a large charging animal and if it doesn't die in
> about
> > two seconds then you are going to get mauled. The guides in AK carry
12ga
> > slug guns.
>
> See my remarks about they guy who took one on with a .38.
>
> > The people familiar with the bears will tell you to carry the
> > pepper spray.
>
> Pepper spray is only good within about 15 feet and then only upwind.
>
> > We have Grizzleys here in N. Idaho but I have never seen one
> > at close range and the ones that I have seen in AK have all been from a
> > vehicle. I can tell you there is nothing spookier than coming upon a
> > steaming pile of poop and 16" tracks where there isn't a person for 15
> > miles! Much scarier than a thunderstorm anyway.
>
> Considering peoples poor marksmanship when confronting bad guys (human) I
> can see where their skills would deteriorate confronting something much
> bigger and much badder.
>
>
>
>

[Robert M. Gary]

"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message >...
> "Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message

> I believe the penalty for arriving early is having to wait in your plane
> with the doors closed until the Customs Agent arrives. Also, IIUC, you can
> contact the FBO by Unicom and have them update the agent on your arrival

Actually arriving early is suppose to be a $10,000 fine but I've never
heard of it being used. You can arrive 30 minutes late. You can also
update your time enroute without 30 minutes. So you can arrive with
only 30 minutes notice if you previously notified them of the hour.

Also, if you choose to use the ADVCUS on your flight plan (rather than
actually call them) understand that simply FILING the flight plane
causes the customs guy to drive out to the airport. They don't know
about opening. This often is a problem in Mexico were we file our
return flight plans weeks in advance since working phones are so rare
in Mexico.

[Peter Duniho]

> wrote in message
...
> [...]
> I have always found the U.S. Customs agents to be professional, polite,
and
> respectful in their demeanor. Please extend them the same courtesy.

I agree that one should be very careful when dealing with US Customs.

I disagree that they are uniformly "professional, polite, and respectful in
their demeanor". I have a wide variety of experiences with US Customs,
mostly negative:
* I had the guy who slept through his appointment with me; I had to have
FSS phone him to get him over to the airport, while we sat in the airplane
on the ground (remember, not allowed to leave the airport until Customs
shows up) for over an hour. We were in the airplane with the engine off
longer than we'd been in it with the engine on.
* I had the creepy guy who, while never really overtly crossing the line
of respectful behavior, asked a bunch of questions of me and the woman I was
with that had nothing to do with our immigration status. We left wondering
if he was going to wind up stalking us later, or worse.
* And then I had the woman who took the trouble to call me back four
days after I'd been trying to reach her to yell at me and tell me I better
not have made the flight I was trying to make, since I hadn't heard from her
first (I had been phoning her office for the two days prior to the flight to
make arrangements for my return flight, which was on a Saturday and not
during normal Customs business hours at my home airport, without being able
to reach a live person once). When I say "yell", that's what I mean...her
phone call was not a friendly one.

For that last case, I wound up clearing through Friday Harbor Customs, where
I found an overworked and VERY friendly and respectful fellow. He was
responsible for both dealing with Customs at the airport as well as down at
the marina, and in spite of him having to drive back and forth all day, he
was in a good mood when I saw him and stayed that way throughout my entire
processing.

Another memorably good experience was at West Palm Beach, coming back from
the Bahamas. I wouldn't call the officer "friendly" exactly, but he was
very professional and business-like and appeared to take his job seriously.

Customs isn't all bad, as some of my experiences have proven to me. But
they sure aren't all good either, and so far, the bad has outnumbered the
good.

By the way, I have *never* had more than one Customs agent to process my
return to the US. Maybe you've had better experiences because you've always
had two, and they always are looking over the other's shoulder.

Pete