Loading luggage in other than Mooney

[Robert M. Gary]

The other day I saw a guy drive up to his Bonanza with a car load of
bags. This is something I've done for years in my Mooney but many
years since I've flown a Bonanza or Cessna. In my Mooney, the baggage
door opens at the top of the cabin (the door is long enough that it
goes down to the middle and opens like a clam shell, much like a car's
trunk). I can easily load heavey bag on top of heavy bag in the Mooney
by dropping them down on top of each other. How did I do it back in
the Bonanza days? It looks like I must have had to load a bag in the
bottom door , reach in, hold that bag up and then slide another bag
under it. Or perhaps I climbed in through the back seat and loaded the
bags that way.

How do most of the Bonanza/Cessna pilots here do it? Why would anyone
put a baggage door on the bottom of the baggage area. Its like loading
your truck though a little hole near the license plate on your car.

-Robert

[Steve Robertson]

Why would anyone build a plane with manual gear and hydraulic flaps, like
many Moonys? Why would anyone build a plane with only one door like
Cherokees, Moneys, and most Beechcraft? Why would anyone build a plane
with the wing on top? Why would anyone build a plane with the wing on the
bottom? Why ... ?

Look, I think your question is probably a tounge-in-cheek jab at Bonanza
drivers. But it comes off as pretty close to being a troll. It would be
pretty impractical to put a top hinged baggage door on a Bone because the
top of fuselage is several feet higher off the ground than a Mooney. Maybe
Cessna could have done it, but I suspect the engineering and production
costs of such a feature would result in a higher price.

By the way, why do they stick the tail on backwards on Mooneys?

Steve Robertson
N4732J 1967 Beechcraft A23-24 Musketeer Super III

"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

> The other day I saw a guy drive up to his Bonanza with a car load of
> bags. This is something I've done for years in my Mooney but many
> years since I've flown a Bonanza or Cessna. In my Mooney, the baggage
> door opens at the top of the cabin (the door is long enough that it
> goes down to the middle and opens like a clam shell, much like a car's
> trunk). I can easily load heavey bag on top of heavy bag in the Mooney
> by dropping them down on top of each other. How did I do it back in
> the Bonanza days? It looks like I must have had to load a bag in the
> bottom door , reach in, hold that bag up and then slide another bag
> under it. Or perhaps I climbed in through the back seat and loaded the
> bags that way.
>
> How do most of the Bonanza/Cessna pilots here do it? Why would anyone
> put a baggage door on the bottom of the baggage area. Its like loading
> your truck though a little hole near the license plate on your car.
>
> -Robert

[tony]

>
>Look, I think your question is probably a tounge-in-cheek jab at Bonanza
>drivers. But it comes off as pretty close to being a troll. It would be
>pretty impractical to put a top hinged baggage door on a Bone because the
>top of fuselage is several feet higher off the ground than a Mooney. Maybe
>Cessna could have done it, but I suspect the engineering and production
>costs of such a feature would result in a higher price.
>
>By the way, why do they stick the tail on backwards on Mooneys?
>


Didn't you know? We Mooney jocks like our tail backwards.

AJW

[kage]

That's easy cause your 201 won't hold much. A couple of tooth brushes and
underwear maybe!

I don't remember my Mooney 1977 201 (N201MW), other than it didn't hold much
weight. Everything in aviation is a compromise. In my Cessna 185 I give up a
little speed to my Mooney. But after I load 8 hours of fuel (92 usable), and
four FAA passengers (170#) I can still load 180 pounds of baggage.

Try that in your Bonanza! Further, my 185 is a PIG, as far as weight. Dual
IFR GPS, G330-TIS TXP, KX-165A, HSI, DME, ADF etc etc. OK, so I can only go
140 knots. But at least my stuff comes along with.

Best,
Karl


"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
m...
> The other day I saw a guy drive up to his Bonanza with a car load of
> bags. This is something I've done for years in my Mooney but many
> years since I've flown a Bonanza or Cessna. In my Mooney, the baggage
> door opens at the top of the cabin (the door is long enough that it
> goes down to the middle and opens like a clam shell, much like a car's
> trunk). I can easily load heavey bag on top of heavy bag in the Mooney
> by dropping them down on top of each other. How did I do it back in
> the Bonanza days? It looks like I must have had to load a bag in the
> bottom door , reach in, hold that bag up and then slide another bag
> under it. Or perhaps I climbed in through the back seat and loaded the
> bags that way.
>
> How do most of the Bonanza/Cessna pilots here do it? Why would anyone
> put a baggage door on the bottom of the baggage area. Its like loading
> your truck though a little hole near the license plate on your car.
>
> -Robert

[Maule Driver]

Well, Mooney/Bonanza discussions are a little out of my league ... a bit
below me if you will.

But I'll bet the real reason has to do with Mooney's steel tube cabin cage
versus what I think is a stressed skin (monowhatever) structure on the
Cessna's and Bo's. I think that steel tube structure is what tends to be
corroded on older Mooneys.

My Maule has a cargo door almost as big as the other 3, yes 3, passenger
doors. Tube and fabric allows that easily.

We pile 4 in there, 70lbs of luggage in the back, another 20 with the
passengers, and 4 hours of fuel. It's just going so slow that we need the 4
hours to get anywhere.

But put 2 in and *anything* you could possibly want with 4.5 hours. It's a
clean machine!!

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
m...
> The other day I saw a guy drive up to his Bonanza with a car load of
> bags. This is something I've done for years in my Mooney but many
> years since I've flown a Bonanza or Cessna. In my Mooney, the baggage
> door opens at the top of the cabin (the door is long enough that it
> goes down to the middle and opens like a clam shell, much like a car's
> trunk). I can easily load heavey bag on top of heavy bag in the Mooney
> by dropping them down on top of each other. How did I do it back in
> the Bonanza days? It looks like I must have had to load a bag in the
> bottom door , reach in, hold that bag up and then slide another bag
> under it. Or perhaps I climbed in through the back seat and loaded the
> bags that way.
>
> How do most of the Bonanza/Cessna pilots here do it? Why would anyone
> put a baggage door on the bottom of the baggage area. Its like loading
> your truck though a little hole near the license plate on your car.
>
> -Robert

[Marco Leon]

Stand down there Steve. Why are you so harsh? I think Robert had a
legitimate question and it partially applies to Cherokee drivers (although
putting very heavy bags in the baggage area of many Cherokee models isn't a
great idea). Also, I'm sure he would have thought up a better subject in
which to slam Bo and Cessna models.

BTW, I heard--probably from this newsgroup--that the Mooney tail design was
for better handling at higher angles of attack (say in a flare).

Marco


"Steve Robertson" > wrote in message
...
> Why would anyone build a plane with manual gear and hydraulic flaps, like
> many Moonys? Why would anyone build a plane with only one door like
> Cherokees, Moneys, and most Beechcraft? Why would anyone build a plane
> with the wing on top? Why would anyone build a plane with the wing on the
> bottom? Why ... ?
>
> Look, I think your question is probably a tounge-in-cheek jab at Bonanza
> drivers. But it comes off as pretty close to being a troll. It would be
> pretty impractical to put a top hinged baggage door on a Bone because the
> top of fuselage is several feet higher off the ground than a Mooney. Maybe
> Cessna could have done it, but I suspect the engineering and production
> costs of such a feature would result in a higher price.
>
> By the way, why do they stick the tail on backwards on Mooneys?
>
> Steve Robertson
> N4732J 1967 Beechcraft A23-24 Musketeer Super III
>
> "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
>
> > The other day I saw a guy drive up to his Bonanza with a car load of
> > bags. This is something I've done for years in my Mooney but many
> > years since I've flown a Bonanza or Cessna. In my Mooney, the baggage
> > door opens at the top of the cabin (the door is long enough that it
> > goes down to the middle and opens like a clam shell, much like a car's
> > trunk). I can easily load heavey bag on top of heavy bag in the Mooney
> > by dropping them down on top of each other. How did I do it back in
> > the Bonanza days? It looks like I must have had to load a bag in the
> > bottom door , reach in, hold that bag up and then slide another bag
> > under it. Or perhaps I climbed in through the back seat and loaded the
> > bags that way.
> >
> > How do most of the Bonanza/Cessna pilots here do it? Why would anyone
> > put a baggage door on the bottom of the baggage area. Its like loading
> > your truck though a little hole near the license plate on your car.
> >
> > -Robert
>



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[gatt]

"tony" > wrote in message

> >By the way, why do they stick the tail on backwards on Mooneys?

> Didn't you know? We Mooney jocks like our tail backwards.

LOL! There HAD to be a comeback 'cause I'm sure Steve isn't the first
person to look at a Mooney tail and think "wtf is up with that?"


-c

[Dan Luke]

"Robert M. Gary" wrote:
> Or perhaps I climbed in through the back seat and loaded the
> bags that way.
>
> How do most of the Bonanza/Cessna pilots here do it?

I use a hydraulic ram, a chainsaw and vaseline to make suitcases fit
through the baggage door on the Cutlass.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Nathan Young]

On 25 Jun 2004 09:12:25 -0700, (Robert M. Gary)
wrote:

>The other day I saw a guy drive up to his Bonanza with a car load of
>bags. This is something I've done for years in my Mooney but many
>years since I've flown a Bonanza or Cessna. In my Mooney, the baggage
>door opens at the top of the cabin (the door is long enough that it
>goes down to the middle and opens like a clam shell, much like a car's
>trunk). I can easily load heavey bag on top of heavy bag in the Mooney
>by dropping them down on top of each other. How did I do it back in
>the Bonanza days? It looks like I must have had to load a bag in the
>bottom door , reach in, hold that bag up and then slide another bag
>under it. Or perhaps I climbed in through the back seat and loaded the
>bags that way.
>
>How do most of the Bonanza/Cessna pilots here do it? Why would anyone
>put a baggage door on the bottom of the baggage area. Its like loading
>your truck though a little hole near the license plate on your car.

My Cherokee has the bottom opening door that is only ~2" tall. It is
a pain to load luggage. I usually fly without the rear seats, so will
load bags from the front door.

[Jay Honeck]

> How do most of the Bonanza/Cessna pilots here do it? Why would anyone
> put a baggage door on the bottom of the baggage area. Its like loading
> your truck though a little hole near the license plate on your car.

I've helped a guy load his Mooney (on his final flight, but that's another
story), and was appalled at how truly difficult it was to load suitcases and
other luggage through that dinky little hole cut into the TOP of the
fuselage.

You have to do a virtual dead lift, straight up, then over, and then down
into the cabin -- preferably without scratching the paint. A truly bad
design.

My Cherokee, on the other hand, has a side baggage door that opens wide and
tall, and allows me to load 200 pounds of luggage without lifting any higher
than the very bottom of the fuselage.

The designers of the Cherokee got this one right. Mooney, however, did not.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[tony]

>
>I've helped a guy load his Mooney (on his final flight, but that's another
>story), and was appalled at how truly difficult it was to load suitcases and
>other luggage through that dinky little hole cut into the TOP of the
>fuselage.
>
>You have to do a virtual dead lift, straight up, then over, and then down
>into the cabin -- preferably without scratching the paint. A truly bad
>design.
>
>My Cherokee, on the other hand, has a side baggage door that opens wide and
>tall, and allows me to load 200 pounds of luggage without lifting any higher
>than the very bottom of the fuselage.
>
>The designers of the Cherokee got this one right. Mooney, however, did not.
>--
>Jay Honeck
>Iowa City, IA
>Pathfinder N56993
>www.AlexisParkInn.com
>"Your Aviation Destination"
>

Mooneys have their shortcomings, you've IDed one of them. A hurt back can
prevent you from getting aboard, that's another. On the positive side, among
SEL airplanes I've known, the Mooney is among the best endorphin producers I've
known. It's easy to pick out the Mooney driver at the fixed base office (no,
not because his suit pants are dirty because he just checked his fuel) -- we're
the ones with the big smiles on our faces. And it's NOT because we get out tail
backwards, it's because it's a sweet airplane to fly. BTW, if you want to land
one really short (no, damn it, with the gear down) add a few RPMs deep in the
flare and if you get the yoke all the way back you'll be able to do a three
point touch down the old fashioned way.

Hey, there's a good question. How many of you actually get a stall warning in
the flare?

[Dan Luke]

"tony" wrote:
> Hey, there's a good question. How many of you actually get
> a stall warning in the flare?

Every time.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Maule Driver]

Well, I did my commercial training in a old Mooney with a Johnson bar. Once
it gathers itself up and gets some speed on it's pretty nice. Tight
ailerons with little control wheel throw. Pitch okay. etc.

The vintage panel sucked, the luggage hole is fine for flight bags and
little stuff.

But I can imagine that packing the way we do in our Maule just wouldn't
work. We pay absolutely no attention to size, shape, or weight. We just
open the big door - or both doors, and put it in. It's easy to see that
travel in the Mooney would call for many smaller bags and a bit of planning.

Landings were sweet. Short field even sweeter. At about 80mph, I'm
guessing that whatever laminar flow characteristics the wing has falls away,
and the a/c assumes a good rate of descent, with some power, and with just
enough energy to flare with no float. Chop the power a wingspan and a half
high and you're done. (I didn't add any rpms but that would allow the wheel
to stay up after touch) I know people find some of the later models a bit
challenging at times but that wasn't my experience. Much easier to land
consistently and short over an obstacle than my Maule - though I can get the
Maule shorter just by virture of speed, but not much.

The 180hp Mooney is a hog on T.O. compared to my 180hp Maule whatever the
loading. And it feels like crap at slow speeds on initial climb or in slow
speed manuevers.

But the sweetest part is getting there 30% faster with the same engine and
fuel burn. That is sweet!

"tony" > wrote in message
...
>
> Mooneys have their shortcomings, you've IDed one of them. A hurt back can
> prevent you from getting aboard, that's another. On the positive side,
among
> SEL airplanes I've known, the Mooney is among the best endorphin producers
I've
> known. It's easy to pick out the Mooney driver at the fixed base office
(no,
> not because his suit pants are dirty because he just checked his fuel) --
we're
> the ones with the big smiles on our faces. And it's NOT because we get out
tail
> backwards, it's because it's a sweet airplane to fly. BTW, if you want to
land
> one really short (no, damn it, with the gear down) add a few RPMs deep in
the
> flare and if you get the yoke all the way back you'll be able to do a
three
> point touch down the old fashioned way.
>
> Hey, there's a good question. How many of you actually get a stall warning
in
> the flare?
>
>

[tony]

>
>> Hey, there's a good question. How many of you actually get
>> a stall warning in the flare?
>
>Every time.
>--
>Dan
>C172RG at BFM
>
But Dan, you sign as C172!

That's intended to be lighthearted, you know.

[Dan Luke]

"tony" wrote:
> But Dan, you sign as C172!
>
> That's intended to be lighthearted, you know.

Sorry, Tony; what??

[Newps]

> "tony" wrote:
> > Hey, there's a good question. How many of you actually get
> > a stall warning in the flare?

Then you screwed up your short field landing. The stall warning comes on
final. Any later and you use too much runway.

[Robert M. Gary]

"kage" > wrote in message >...
> That's easy cause your 201 won't hold much. A couple of tooth brushes and
> underwear maybe!
>
> I don't remember my Mooney 1977 201 (N201MW), other than it didn't hold much
> weight. Everything in aviation is a compromise. In my Cessna 185 I give up a
> little speed to my Mooney. But after I load 8 hours of fuel (92 usable), and
> four FAA passengers (170#) I can still load 180 pounds of baggage.

I have a 1000 lbs even of useful load in my Mooney. I only drink 10
gal/hr so I don't need as much gas.

-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

(tony) wrote in message >...
> Hey, there's a good question. How many of you actually get a stall warning in
> the flare?

Everytime. I like my prop the length it is. BTW: Holding in a bit of
RPM AFTER TOUCH DOWN is a good soft field technique in a Mooney, but
not great for short. I've loaded my Mooney on beaches in Mexico on
several occations. It does great on the soft stuff as long as its not
deep.

-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

"Maule Driver" > wrote in message >...
> Well, I did my commercial training in a old Mooney with a Johnson bar. Once
> it gathers itself up and gets some speed on it's pretty nice. Tight
> ailerons with little control wheel throw. Pitch okay. etc.
>
> The vintage panel sucked, the luggage hole is fine for flight bags and
> little stuff.
>
> But I can imagine that packing the way we do in our Maule just wouldn't
> work. We pay absolutely no attention to size, shape, or weight. We just
> open the big door - or both doors, and put it in. It's easy to see that
> travel in the Mooney would call for many smaller bags and a bit of planning.
>
> Landings were sweet. Short field even sweeter. At about 80mph, I'm
> guessing that whatever laminar flow characteristics the wing has falls away,
> and the a/c assumes a good rate of descent, with some power, and with just
> enough energy to flare with no float.

This varies a lot depending on the length of the Mooney. The F got
longer, then the M got longer yet. As they got longer, the short field
got harder and keeping the nose high on touch down got harder. 80 mph
is pretty fast over the fence for the non-turbo Mooneys. 75 mph works
good for heavy, and 72 seems to work good for light. Every 10 mph
extra over the fence seems to cost about 1000 feet of runway.

-Robert, CFI, Mooney owner.

[Robert M. Gary]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:<_R5Dc.113229$HG.74050@attbi_s53>...
> > How do most of the Bonanza/Cessna pilots here do it? Why would anyone
> > put a baggage door on the bottom of the baggage area. Its like loading
> > your truck though a little hole near the license plate on your car.
>
> I've helped a guy load his Mooney (on his final flight, but that's another
> story), and was appalled at how truly difficult it was to load suitcases and
> other luggage through that dinky little hole cut into the TOP of the
> fuselage.

Interesting. I've always been impressed with how big that opening is.
I've actually climbed into the back seat through it on a couple of
occasions while working on the plane. I'm 6'4" 220lbs.

>
> You have to do a virtual dead lift, straight up, then over, and then down
> into the cabin -- preferably without scratching the paint. A truly bad
> design.

But the alternative is to have to load each bag, then lift it up and
slide other bags under it. That surely can't be better than the Mooney
method.
Perhaps my family of 4 just carries a lot more bags than most.

[Jay Honeck]

> But the alternative is to have to load each bag, then lift it up and
> slide other bags under it. That surely can't be better than the Mooney
> method.
> Perhaps my family of 4 just carries a lot more bags than most.

Our door is big enough to actually fit my body inside the plane. If I have
enough luggage to fill it to the top of the fuselage (usually a camping
trip, with coolers, tents, etc.) it takes a bit of pre-planning to load all
the baggage in a logical order.

Sometimes the last couple of items must be "dropped in" over the back seats.

Still, for 90% of our trips, we don't come close to filling the baggage
compartment, even with four people.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[dave]

You guy's all have it easy!! Try loading anything into the back of my
Citabria (the new ones do have an option for a baggage door). I have
the smaller engine 7ECA so I can easily carry the weight for a couple's
weekend bags. Tough to get them back there however, I have to kneel on
the back seat. It's shame really because there's plenty of room for
soft bags.
Dave
68 7ECA


Jay Honeck wrote:
>>But the alternative is to have to load each bag, then lift it up and
>>slide other bags under it. That surely can't be better than the Mooney
>>method.
>>Perhaps my family of 4 just carries a lot more bags than most.
>
>
> Our door is big enough to actually fit my body inside the plane. If I have
> enough luggage to fill it to the top of the fuselage (usually a camping
> trip, with coolers, tents, etc.) it takes a bit of pre-planning to load all
> the baggage in a logical order.
>
> Sometimes the last couple of items must be "dropped in" over the back seats.
>
> Still, for 90% of our trips, we don't come close to filling the baggage
> compartment, even with four people.