Logging Time Consistently - Hobbs AND Tach

[Carl Orton]

I, like most (assuming) started logging their flight hours based on Hobbs
time.

I recently purchased a plane that does not have a Hobbs, but does have a
digitial count-up timer. For consistency with my previous logged time, is
there any issue of logging via the timer time as opposed to using the tach
time?

I know the FARs say I don't have to log except for currency or new ratings,
but I log every flight regardless. Guess what I'm saying is that since most
of my flights are ~2.0 hrs clock time cross countries, but 1.? tach time,
and since I'm working on my 50hrs cross-country for IFR reasons, I can get
there just a bit quicker using wall time as opposed to tach time.

Any issues I should be aware of?

Thanks;
Carl

[C J Campbell]

Strictly speaking,
Flight time means:

(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for
the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after
landing; or



Thus, neither Hobbs nor tach time are flight time. Hobbs time is likely to
be more accurate than tach time, however. I don't know how your digital
count-up timer works, but it is probably no more inaccurate than Hobbs time
would be. Or you could just use your watch, kitchen timer, GPS flight time
logger, or whatever else you have.

[G. Burkhart]

"Carl Orton" > wrote in message
...
> I, like most (assuming) started logging their flight hours based on Hobbs
> time.
>
> I recently purchased a plane that does not have a Hobbs, but does have a
> digitial count-up timer. For consistency with my previous logged time, is
> there any issue of logging via the timer time as opposed to using the tach
> time?
>
> I know the FARs say I don't have to log except for currency or new
ratings,
> but I log every flight regardless. Guess what I'm saying is that since
most
> of my flights are ~2.0 hrs clock time cross countries, but 1.? tach time,
> and since I'm working on my 50hrs cross-country for IFR reasons, I can get
> there just a bit quicker using wall time as opposed to tach time.

I use the Hobbs time when it's available in an aircraft. In my plane
(without Hobbs), I use my watch and note the time at engine startup and
check my watch again as I shut down and round to the nearest tenth. I use
the tach time in the plane for oil changes, etc.

[Teacherjh]

>>
is there any issue of logging via the timer time as opposed to using the tach
time?
<<

Nope. In fact, tach time is fiction anyway (it's just counting the revolutions
of the prop). There is no rule stipulating the source of the information used
to determine your flight time (which btw also includes most taxi time). You
can log off a watch, the clock in the airplane, a sundial, or even the number
of times you count "one one thousand".

Jose




--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Teacherjh]

>>
(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for
the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after
landing; or

Thus, neither Hobbs nor tach time are flight time.
<<

Hobbs comes pretty close. Unless you sit and warm up the engine prior to taxi
for six minutes, pretty much all the time the engine is running counts. To be
legal, just let the plane inch forward a bit on startup, it has then moved
under its own power for the purpose of flight.

Somewhere in the FAQ is a comment on this, to the effect that the other
interpretation (when you start running down the runway) is not what is meant.
Taxi time counts as flight time.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[vincent p. norris]

>(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for
>the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after
>landing....

That may be "legal," but I look at my watch when I add power to take
off and again when I roll out after landing. Probably a habit I picked
up in service.

Once (as a civilian) I sat on the ground at the end of runway 18 at
DCA for more than 30 minutes (about 5 p.m.) watching airliners
land--one after another. Didn't seem much like flying.

vince norris

[Teacherjh]

>>
Once (as a civilian) I sat on the ground at the end of runway 18 at
DCA for more than 30 minutes (about 5 p.m.) watching airliners
land--one after another. Didn't seem much like flying.
<<

No, but neither does sitting behind an autopilot. <g>

Actually, if you taxi around for takeoff, have a three hour delay on the
ground, and then your engine blows up, all of that is loggable as "flight
time", not just the part where you leapt out of the cockpit just ahead of the
number three cylender.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Michael]

vincent p. norris > wrote
> That may be "legal," but I look at my watch when I add power to take
> off and again when I roll out after landing. Probably a habit I picked
> up in service.

Maybe the military uses a consistent definition of flight time for
aircraft and airmen, but the FAA does not.

According to the FAA, for an airman flight time begins once the
aircraft first moves under its own power for the purpose of flight,
and ends once it comes to a stop at its destination. Every insurance
company and aviation employer I have ever encountered uses that same
definition.

> Once (as a civilian) I sat on the ground at the end of runway 18 at
> DCA for more than 30 minutes (about 5 p.m.) watching airliners
> land--one after another. Didn't seem much like flying.

BTDT at SFO. It may not seem much like flying, but the FAA says it
counts - and when I say it counts, I mean for certificates, ratings,
recency of experience, and all those other wonderful things. My
insurance company agrees with the FAA. Therefore I log it - not
because I necessarily think that's the best way to do things, but
because it's consistent.

What you are logging is flight time for the AIRCRAFT, not the AIRMAN.
No, I'm really not kidding. For an aircraft, flight time is from the
moment the wheels leave the ground until they touch down again.
That's the time used to determine required maintenance intervals, even
if sitting there idling for 30 minutes is probably harder on a piston
engine than 30 minutes of flight.

Of course most people in the little aircraft world use tach time,
which isn't really right either, but since most light aircraft are not
equipped with an hourmeter that actually measures flight time (and
after the paperwork blizzard I had to generate to get one approved on
mine, I can see why) it seems like the best idea.

Michael

[m pautz]

Carl Orton wrote:
> I, like most (assuming) started logging their flight hours based on Hobbs
> time.
>
> I recently purchased a plane that does not have a Hobbs, but does have a
> digitial count-up timer. For consistency with my previous logged time, is
> there any issue of logging via the timer time as opposed to using the tach
> time?
>
> I know the FARs say I don't have to log except for currency or new ratings,
> but I log every flight regardless. Guess what I'm saying is that since most
> of my flights are ~2.0 hrs clock time cross countries, but 1.? tach time,
> and since I'm working on my 50hrs cross-country for IFR reasons, I can get
> there just a bit quicker using wall time as opposed to tach time.
>
> Any issues I should be aware of?
>
> Thanks;
> Carl
>
>
You will also want to be accumulating time for future ratings, such as
your commercial.

Use a clock type of timing device rather than tach time. That way when
your carb ice'es up and your engine quits, you will still be logging the
flight time.

[Brian Case]

> (1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for
> the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after
> landing; or
>
<snip>

So Exactly How do I log Glider time?

Brian

[Brian Case]

"Carl Orton" > wrote in message >...
> I, like most (assuming) started logging their flight hours based on Hobbs
> time.
>
> I recently purchased a plane that does not have a Hobbs, but does have a
> digitial count-up timer. For consistency with my previous logged time, is
> there any issue of logging via the timer time as opposed to using the tach
> time?
>
> I know the FARs say I don't have to log except for currency or new ratings,
> but I log every flight regardless. Guess what I'm saying is that since most
> of my flights are ~2.0 hrs clock time cross countries, but 1.? tach time,
> and since I'm working on my 50hrs cross-country for IFR reasons, I can get
> there just a bit quicker using wall time as opposed to tach time.
>
> Any issues I should be aware of?
>
> Thanks;
> Carl


A Stop Watch or a timer is the best Way to log Time, However Generally
for TO and landing practice you can take the Tach Time and multipy by
1.2 to something close to Real time. On Cross country flights
mulitiplying by 1.0 or 1.1 might be better.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

[m pautz]

Brian Case wrote:
>>(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for
>>the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after
>>landing; or
>>
>
> <snip>
>
> So Exactly How do I log Glider time?
>
> Brian
Sorry, you do not get to log the "taxi" time unless the glider is
self-launch.

FAR 1.1
(2)
"For a glider without self-launch capability, pilot times that commences
when the glider is towed for the purpose of flight and ends when the
glider comes to rest after landing"

Please see my post of 6-28 to see why tach time should not be use.

Marty