My 9th Wedding Anniversary Trip, To Newport, OR Carb Ice & Real Engine Out "Long"

[NW_PILOT]

Hello, group the wife and I departed at 12:30pm 06-26-04 ceilings scattered
at 4,900' tops 6,000' & clear at the coast we will be flying over 3,800'
terrain. The trip up was a fun flight almost uneventful was fun weaving
around the clouds will post photos soon. As briefed the clouds were gone
about 10 miles before the coast line.



We flew out over the pacific ocean about 10 miles looking at all the fishing
boats. The asked the wife if she was ready for me to show her a steep turn,
she said ok. She actually wanted to do another after the first one we did a
few other things then decided that we need to land as it is getting close to
the bed and breakfast check in time. The winds at our destination were 220 @
9 G15. I opted for runway 20 was a bit high on a RP. I decided to slip it
in I explained to the wife what I was going to do she was alright with a
slip. We landed checked in with the FBO called the place we were staying at
they picked us up promptly.



The Place we stayed at was The Newly Built Stone Crest Cellar Bed &
Breakfast. Our hostess Judy was a very pleasant upscale lady. If you are
looking to take your wife on a relaxing log cabin castle type paradise
getaway, on the Oregon coast this is the place to go.



The rooms are great the beds are high quality the complementary wine &
appetizers (cheese & crackers, fresh fruit, chocolate truffles & port) are
great. The ocean view's are outstanding from the deck and even better from
their hammock on the bluff. The beach access needs a bit of work but they
are working on it! The bedding & linens are great quality & very
comfortable. Thick comfortable robes are also provided. The sound of the
ocean waves will put you to sleep ASAP.



This morning's breakfast was excellent & consisted of gourmet coffee, tea,
fresh fruit, fresh O.J., wheat toast, and one dam good omelet nothing was
spared, lots of great stuffings and served with a smile. We will definitely
return to The Stone Crest Cellar Bed & Breakfast wish we were able to stay
more than 1 night.



We check out Judy takes us back to the airport about a mile away thanks us &
wishes us a safe trip.



Web address for Stone Crest Cellar Bed & Breakfast
http://www.stonecrestbb.com/



Now the fun begins:



Call in for a weather brief about a half hour prior to getting ot the
airport, Ceilings Scattered 1,600; to 5,500 with mountain's obscured, winds
aloft were light and variable airmass stable. We get fueled up & pre flight,
I program the GPS and fold my chart the way I like it. We depart runway 34
climb up to 6,500 head for the tops of the scatterd clouds. I make the call
to go up to 7,500 It felt more comfortable there and the what a view the
scattered clouds below. I had to climb up to 8,300' to keep cloud clearance
I set up for cruise, a fiew minuits later the engine starts to run a bit
ruff. I go through my checks apply carburetor heat it smoothes out radio to
Seattle center that I have some carburetor ice they ask me for the OAT was
about 45 degrees.



I start to descend down to warmer air all of a sudden at 7,500' I get
silence' the engine quits prop is just wind milling! I pitch for best glide
make sure all my checks are done. I see KMMV and I got plenty of altitude I
know could make if I could not get restarted. I reported to Seattle Center
that I now have an engine out and I may have to be landing other than my
destination and that I have KMMV in site and I am attempting a restart.



At about 4,500' I can hear the engine starting to sputter wanting to fire
back up as I am descending over KMMV at about 3,800' the ice melted engine
regained power burping every now i held altitude until ice was totally gone,
I leave the carburetor heat on, the oil temp started to climb back up to
normal. I wipe the sweet off my forehead, radio to Seattle Center tell them
that I have it restarted and am going to continue on.



Right after I radioed in to Seattle that I got power back another pilot on
flight following was going west bound at 8,500' called Seattle Center asking
them ware I had the carburetor ice at because he wanted to avoid the area.



All I can say is what a trip I never had carburetor ice so bad that the
engine went out what a rush it was and the wife really enjoyed the little 1
day vacation in paradise.

[BTIZ]

nice recovery on getting the engine restarted..

but I would reconsider your decision to continue after you had it
restarted.. how did you know for sure it was carb ice and not bad gas?

perhaps a safety landing at KMMV would have been better..

BT


"NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
...
> Hello, group the wife and I departed at 12:30pm 06-26-04 ceilings
scattered
> at 4,900' tops 6,000' & clear at the coast we will be flying over 3,800'
> terrain. The trip up was a fun flight almost uneventful was fun weaving
> around the clouds will post photos soon. As briefed the clouds were gone
> about 10 miles before the coast line.
>
>
>
> We flew out over the pacific ocean about 10 miles looking at all the
fishing
> boats. The asked the wife if she was ready for me to show her a steep
turn,
> she said ok. She actually wanted to do another after the first one we did
a
> few other things then decided that we need to land as it is getting close
to
> the bed and breakfast check in time. The winds at our destination were 220
@
> 9 G15. I opted for runway 20 was a bit high on a RP. I decided to slip it
> in I explained to the wife what I was going to do she was alright with a
> slip. We landed checked in with the FBO called the place we were staying
at
> they picked us up promptly.
>
>
>
> The Place we stayed at was The Newly Built Stone Crest Cellar Bed &
> Breakfast. Our hostess Judy was a very pleasant upscale lady. If you are
> looking to take your wife on a relaxing log cabin castle type paradise
> getaway, on the Oregon coast this is the place to go.
>
>
>
> The rooms are great the beds are high quality the complementary wine &
> appetizers (cheese & crackers, fresh fruit, chocolate truffles & port) are
> great. The ocean view's are outstanding from the deck and even better from
> their hammock on the bluff. The beach access needs a bit of work but they
> are working on it! The bedding & linens are great quality & very
> comfortable. Thick comfortable robes are also provided. The sound of the
> ocean waves will put you to sleep ASAP.
>
>
>
> This morning's breakfast was excellent & consisted of gourmet coffee, tea,
> fresh fruit, fresh O.J., wheat toast, and one dam good omelet nothing was
> spared, lots of great stuffings and served with a smile. We will
definitely
> return to The Stone Crest Cellar Bed & Breakfast wish we were able to stay
> more than 1 night.
>
>
>
> We check out Judy takes us back to the airport about a mile away thanks us
&
> wishes us a safe trip.
>
>
>
> Web address for Stone Crest Cellar Bed & Breakfast
> http://www.stonecrestbb.com/
>
>
>
> Now the fun begins:
>
>
>
> Call in for a weather brief about a half hour prior to getting ot the
> airport, Ceilings Scattered 1,600; to 5,500 with mountain's obscured,
winds
> aloft were light and variable airmass stable. We get fueled up & pre
flight,
> I program the GPS and fold my chart the way I like it. We depart runway 34
> climb up to 6,500 head for the tops of the scatterd clouds. I make the
call
> to go up to 7,500 It felt more comfortable there and the what a view the
> scattered clouds below. I had to climb up to 8,300' to keep cloud
clearance
> I set up for cruise, a fiew minuits later the engine starts to run a bit
> ruff. I go through my checks apply carburetor heat it smoothes out radio
to
> Seattle center that I have some carburetor ice they ask me for the OAT was
> about 45 degrees.
>
>
>
> I start to descend down to warmer air all of a sudden at 7,500' I get
> silence' the engine quits prop is just wind milling! I pitch for best
glide
> make sure all my checks are done. I see KMMV and I got plenty of altitude
I
> know could make if I could not get restarted. I reported to Seattle Center
> that I now have an engine out and I may have to be landing other than my
> destination and that I have KMMV in site and I am attempting a restart.
>
>
>
> At about 4,500' I can hear the engine starting to sputter wanting to fire
> back up as I am descending over KMMV at about 3,800' the ice melted engine
> regained power burping every now i held altitude until ice was totally
gone,
> I leave the carburetor heat on, the oil temp started to climb back up to
> normal. I wipe the sweet off my forehead, radio to Seattle Center tell
them
> that I have it restarted and am going to continue on.
>
>
>
> Right after I radioed in to Seattle that I got power back another pilot on
> flight following was going west bound at 8,500' called Seattle Center
asking
> them ware I had the carburetor ice at because he wanted to avoid the area.
>
>
>
> All I can say is what a trip I never had carburetor ice so bad that the
> engine went out what a rush it was and the wife really enjoyed the little
1
> day vacation in paradise.
>
>

[Tony Cox]

"NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
...
>
> All I can say is what a trip I never had carburetor ice so bad that the
> engine went out what a rush it was and the wife really enjoyed the little
1
> day vacation in paradise.

You don't say what plane you were in. Was it by any chance a
carbureted Cessna 172?

[NW_PILOT]

It was a cessna 150


"Tony Cox" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> "NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > All I can say is what a trip I never had carburetor ice so bad that the
> > engine went out what a rush it was and the wife really enjoyed the
little
> 1
> > day vacation in paradise.
>
> You don't say what plane you were in. Was it by any chance a
> carbureted Cessna 172?
>
>
>

[Tony Cox]

"NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
...
> It was a cessna 150

The reason I ask is that certain model 172's are susceptible to
vapour lock above 5000' & the symptoms you had were identical
to what happened to me some years back (engine cut out at
7500' & restarted on its own after I'd decended to 3800').

Avgas or Mogas?

> "Tony Cox" > wrote in message
> hlink.net...
> > "NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > All I can say is what a trip I never had carburetor ice so bad that
the
> > > engine went out what a rush it was and the wife really enjoyed the
> little
> > 1
> > > day vacation in paradise.
> >
> > You don't say what plane you were in. Was it by any chance a
> > carbureted Cessna 172?
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[NW_PILOT]

I use Avgas

"Tony Cox" > wrote in message
link.net...
> "NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
> ...
> > It was a cessna 150
>
> The reason I ask is that certain model 172's are susceptible to
> vapour lock above 5000' & the symptoms you had were identical
> to what happened to me some years back (engine cut out at
> 7500' & restarted on its own after I'd decended to 3800').
>
> Avgas or Mogas?
>
> > "Tony Cox" > wrote in message
> > hlink.net...
> > > "NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > All I can say is what a trip I never had carburetor ice so bad that
> the
> > > > engine went out what a rush it was and the wife really enjoyed the
> > little
> > > 1
> > > > day vacation in paradise.
> > >
> > > You don't say what plane you were in. Was it by any chance a
> > > carbureted Cessna 172?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Tony Cox]

"NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
...
> I use Avgas

Well, it probably wasn't vapour lock then. Anyway, sounds
as if you did a great job!

> "Tony Cox" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> > "NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > It was a cessna 150
> >
> > The reason I ask is that certain model 172's are susceptible to
> > vapour lock above 5000' & the symptoms you had were identical
> > to what happened to me some years back (engine cut out at
> > 7500' & restarted on its own after I'd decended to 3800').
> >
> > Avgas or Mogas?
> >
> > > "Tony Cox" > wrote in message
> > > hlink.net...
> > > > "NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > All I can say is what a trip I never had carburetor ice so bad
that
> > the
> > > > > engine went out what a rush it was and the wife really enjoyed the
> > > little
> > > > 1
> > > > > day vacation in paradise.
> > > >
> > > > You don't say what plane you were in. Was it by any chance a
> > > > carbureted Cessna 172?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Bob Gardner]

Ten miles out over the ocean in a 150? Life jackets on board? Could you have
glided to the beach? No way to tell what the dew point was at your altitude
(the clouds give us a hint) but you seem to have been in a good location for
carb ice...45 degrees OAT is not insurance against ice. I think you lucked
out.

Bob Gardner

"NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
...
> Hello, group the wife and I departed at 12:30pm 06-26-04 ceilings
scattered
> at 4,900' tops 6,000' & clear at the coast we will be flying over 3,800'
> terrain. The trip up was a fun flight almost uneventful was fun weaving
> around the clouds will post photos soon. As briefed the clouds were gone
> about 10 miles before the coast line.
>
>
>
> We flew out over the pacific ocean about 10 miles looking at all the
fishing
> boats. The asked the wife if she was ready for me to show her a steep
turn,
> she said ok. She actually wanted to do another after the first one we did
a
> few other things then decided that we need to land as it is getting close
to
> the bed and breakfast check in time. The winds at our destination were 220
@
> 9 G15. I opted for runway 20 was a bit high on a RP. I decided to slip it
> in I explained to the wife what I was going to do she was alright with a
> slip. We landed checked in with the FBO called the place we were staying
at
> they picked us up promptly.
>
>
>
> The Place we stayed at was The Newly Built Stone Crest Cellar Bed &
> Breakfast. Our hostess Judy was a very pleasant upscale lady. If you are
> looking to take your wife on a relaxing log cabin castle type paradise
> getaway, on the Oregon coast this is the place to go.
>
>
>
> The rooms are great the beds are high quality the complementary wine &
> appetizers (cheese & crackers, fresh fruit, chocolate truffles & port) are
> great. The ocean view's are outstanding from the deck and even better from
> their hammock on the bluff. The beach access needs a bit of work but they

> are working on it! The bedding & linens are great quality & very
> comfortable. Thick comfortable robes are also provided. The sound of the
> ocean waves will put you to sleep ASAP.
>
>
>
> This morning's breakfast was excellent & consisted of gourmet coffee, tea,
> fresh fruit, fresh O.J., wheat toast, and one dam good omelet nothing was
> spared, lots of great stuffings and served with a smile. We will
definitely
> return to The Stone Crest Cellar Bed & Breakfast wish we were able to stay
> more than 1 night.
>
>
>
> We check out Judy takes us back to the airport about a mile away thanks us
&
> wishes us a safe trip.
>
>
>
> Web address for Stone Crest Cellar Bed & Breakfast
> http://www.stonecrestbb.com/
>
>
>
> Now the fun begins:
>
>
>
> Call in for a weather brief about a half hour prior to getting ot the
> airport, Ceilings Scattered 1,600; to 5,500 with mountain's obscured,
winds
> aloft were light and variable airmass stable. We get fueled up & pre
flight,
> I program the GPS and fold my chart the way I like it. We depart runway 34
> climb up to 6,500 head for the tops of the scatterd clouds. I make the
call
> to go up to 7,500 It felt more comfortable there and the what a view the
> scattered clouds below. I had to climb up to 8,300' to keep cloud
clearance
> I set up for cruise, a fiew minuits later the engine starts to run a bit
> ruff. I go through my checks apply carburetor heat it smoothes out radio
to
> Seattle center that I have some carburetor ice they ask me for the OAT was
> about 45 degrees.
>
>
>
> I start to descend down to warmer air all of a sudden at 7,500' I get
> silence' the engine quits prop is just wind milling! I pitch for best
glide
> make sure all my checks are done. I see KMMV and I got plenty of altitude
I
> know could make if I could not get restarted. I reported to Seattle Center
> that I now have an engine out and I may have to be landing other than my
> destination and that I have KMMV in site and I am attempting a restart.
>
>
>
> At about 4,500' I can hear the engine starting to sputter wanting to fire
> back up as I am descending over KMMV at about 3,800' the ice melted engine
> regained power burping every now i held altitude until ice was totally
gone,
> I leave the carburetor heat on, the oil temp started to climb back up to
> normal. I wipe the sweet off my forehead, radio to Seattle Center tell
them
> that I have it restarted and am going to continue on.
>
>
>
> Right after I radioed in to Seattle that I got power back another pilot on
> flight following was going west bound at 8,500' called Seattle Center
asking
> them ware I had the carburetor ice at because he wanted to avoid the area.
>
>
>
> All I can say is what a trip I never had carburetor ice so bad that the
> engine went out what a rush it was and the wife really enjoyed the little
1
> day vacation in paradise.
>
>

[Cecil Chapman]

Great story!

Yeah that carb ice can be a sneaky little bugger. Both times I experienced
it (the second time it was more severe and the engine went graveyard dead on
a few occasions ) I was in an 'Ice Maiden' <g> C-152.

Your experience sounds almost identical to my second (more severe) carb ice
incident, except that I opted to do an emergency landing at an airport that
I knew I could easily glide to even if I lost all power. For me, the reason
I did the precautionary landing is that I didn't feel that I had enough
experience to really say it was a carb ice issue I had been dealing with for
certain - even though I was sure of it. So, I opted to land, just in case
there was some other reason that my level of experience didn't permit me to
ferret out the actual cause.

Great job! Glad the Mrs. handled it well, also!

P.S. I may be 'preaching to the choir' at this point and telling you
something you already are aware of, but just in case you, or others reading
your post weren't aware; I did want to mention that carb ice doesn't require
there to be freezing or near freezing temperatures just outside the
aircraft. In fact, outside temps in the seventies with sufficient humidity
will produce carb ice.

In fact, the first time I ever experienced carb ice (less severe than my
second experience) the temperature outside the cabin was in the mid 70's and
it was generally a warm day, with relatively high humidity - that's all it
took...

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

[Andrew Gideon]

NW_PILOT wrote:


> I start to descend down to warmer air all of a sudden at 7,500' I get
> silence' the engine quits prop is just wind milling!

You were running with Carb Heat at this point?

- Andrew

[NW_PILOT]

Yes, I do have Life Vests on board as I do a lot of coastal flying out
here. When I get the chance I want to Fly from Astoria to Crescent City
along the Oregon coast I think that would be a fun trip.


"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
...
> Ten miles out over the ocean in a 150? Life jackets on board? Could you
have
> glided to the beach? No way to tell what the dew point was at your
altitude
> (the clouds give us a hint) but you seem to have been in a good location
for
> carb ice...45 degrees OAT is not insurance against ice. I think you lucked
> out.
>
> Bob Gardner
>
> "NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hello, group the wife and I departed at 12:30pm 06-26-04 ceilings
> scattered
> > at 4,900' tops 6,000' & clear at the coast we will be flying over 3,800'
> > terrain. The trip up was a fun flight almost uneventful was fun weaving
> > around the clouds will post photos soon. As briefed the clouds were gone
> > about 10 miles before the coast line.
> >
> >
> >
> > We flew out over the pacific ocean about 10 miles looking at all the
> fishing
> > boats. The asked the wife if she was ready for me to show her a steep
> turn,
> > she said ok. She actually wanted to do another after the first one we
did
> a
> > few other things then decided that we need to land as it is getting
close
> to
> > the bed and breakfast check in time. The winds at our destination were
220
> @
> > 9 G15. I opted for runway 20 was a bit high on a RP. I decided to slip
it
> > in I explained to the wife what I was going to do she was alright with a
> > slip. We landed checked in with the FBO called the place we were staying
> at
> > they picked us up promptly.
> >
> >
> >
> > The Place we stayed at was The Newly Built Stone Crest Cellar Bed &
> > Breakfast. Our hostess Judy was a very pleasant upscale lady. If you are
> > looking to take your wife on a relaxing log cabin castle type paradise
> > getaway, on the Oregon coast this is the place to go.
> >
> >
> >
> > The rooms are great the beds are high quality the complementary wine &
> > appetizers (cheese & crackers, fresh fruit, chocolate truffles & port)
are
> > great. The ocean view's are outstanding from the deck and even better
from
> > their hammock on the bluff. The beach access needs a bit of work but
they
>
> > are working on it! The bedding & linens are great quality & very
> > comfortable. Thick comfortable robes are also provided. The sound of the
> > ocean waves will put you to sleep ASAP.
> >
> >
> >
> > This morning's breakfast was excellent & consisted of gourmet coffee,
tea,
> > fresh fruit, fresh O.J., wheat toast, and one dam good omelet nothing
was
> > spared, lots of great stuffings and served with a smile. We will
> definitely
> > return to The Stone Crest Cellar Bed & Breakfast wish we were able to
stay
> > more than 1 night.
> >
> >
> >
> > We check out Judy takes us back to the airport about a mile away thanks
us
> &
> > wishes us a safe trip.
> >
> >
> >
> > Web address for Stone Crest Cellar Bed & Breakfast
> > http://www.stonecrestbb.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > Now the fun begins:
> >
> >
> >
> > Call in for a weather brief about a half hour prior to getting ot the
> > airport, Ceilings Scattered 1,600; to 5,500 with mountain's obscured,
> winds
> > aloft were light and variable airmass stable. We get fueled up & pre
> flight,
> > I program the GPS and fold my chart the way I like it. We depart runway
34
> > climb up to 6,500 head for the tops of the scatterd clouds. I make the
> call
> > to go up to 7,500 It felt more comfortable there and the what a view the
> > scattered clouds below. I had to climb up to 8,300' to keep cloud
> clearance
> > I set up for cruise, a fiew minuits later the engine starts to run a bit
> > ruff. I go through my checks apply carburetor heat it smoothes out radio
> to
> > Seattle center that I have some carburetor ice they ask me for the OAT
was
> > about 45 degrees.
> >
> >
> >
> > I start to descend down to warmer air all of a sudden at 7,500' I get
> > silence' the engine quits prop is just wind milling! I pitch for best
> glide
> > make sure all my checks are done. I see KMMV and I got plenty of
altitude
> I
> > know could make if I could not get restarted. I reported to Seattle
Center
> > that I now have an engine out and I may have to be landing other than my
> > destination and that I have KMMV in site and I am attempting a restart.
> >
> >
> >
> > At about 4,500' I can hear the engine starting to sputter wanting to
fire
> > back up as I am descending over KMMV at about 3,800' the ice melted
engine
> > regained power burping every now i held altitude until ice was totally
> gone,
> > I leave the carburetor heat on, the oil temp started to climb back up to
> > normal. I wipe the sweet off my forehead, radio to Seattle Center tell
> them
> > that I have it restarted and am going to continue on.
> >
> >
> >
> > Right after I radioed in to Seattle that I got power back another pilot
on
> > flight following was going west bound at 8,500' called Seattle Center
> asking
> > them ware I had the carburetor ice at because he wanted to avoid the
area.
> >
> >
> >
> > All I can say is what a trip I never had carburetor ice so bad that the
> > engine went out what a rush it was and the wife really enjoyed the
little
> 1
> > day vacation in paradise.
> >
> >
>
>

[NW_PILOT]

"Cecil Chapman" > wrote in message
m...
> Great story!
>
> Yeah that carb ice can be a sneaky little bugger. Both times I
experienced
> it (the second time it was more severe and the engine went graveyard dead
on
> a few occasions ) I was in an 'Ice Maiden' <g> C-152.
>
> Your experience sounds almost identical to my second (more severe) carb
ice
> incident, except that I opted to do an emergency landing at an airport
that
> I knew I could easily glide to even if I lost all power. For me, the
reason
> I did the precautionary landing is that I didn't feel that I had enough
> experience to really say it was a carb ice issue I had been dealing with
for
> certain - even though I was sure of it. So, I opted to land, just in case
> there was some other reason that my level of experience didn't permit me
to
> ferret out the actual cause.
>
> Great job! Glad the Mrs. handled it well, also!

She did not know the engine quit till I did the radio call she just thought
since I was just past the mountain range it was time to go down she just
gets air sick all the time & my wife really trusts me.


>
> P.S. I may be 'preaching to the choir' at this point and telling you
> something you already are aware of, but just in case you, or others
reading
> your post weren't aware; I did want to mention that carb ice doesn't
require
> there to be freezing or near freezing temperatures just outside the
> aircraft. In fact, outside temps in the seventies with sufficient
humidity
> will produce carb ice.
>
> In fact, the first time I ever experienced carb ice (less severe than my
> second experience) the temperature outside the cabin was in the mid 70's
and
> it was generally a warm day, with relatively high humidity - that's all it
> took...

Yes, I have expericanced it a few times in warmer weather but never as sever
as this time carb heat usually dose it but this time wow came on so fast.


>
> --
> --
> =-----
> Good Flights!
>
> Cecil
> PP-ASEL
> Student-IASEL
>
> Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
> checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
> Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com
>
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery -
>
> "We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
> this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
> - Cecil Day Lewis -
>
>

[Bob Gardner]

Glad to hear it...too many pilots fly over water without them. I've flown
the Astoria-Crescent City trip many times, staying within gliding distance
of the beach. South of Crescent City there are many places where there is no
beach at all. For future reference, I have talked to CEC-based pilots who
tell me that the fog can roll in mighty fast...racing them to the airport.

Did you lean the mix when you pulled the carb heat on? Remember that adding
carb heat richens the mixture and you should lean to compensate.

Bob Gardner
"NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
...
> Yes, I do have Life Vests on board as I do a lot of coastal flying out
> here. When I get the chance I want to Fly from Astoria to Crescent City
> along the Oregon coast I think that would be a fun trip.
>
>
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Ten miles out over the ocean in a 150? Life jackets on board? Could you
> have
> > glided to the beach? No way to tell what the dew point was at your
> altitude
> > (the clouds give us a hint) but you seem to have been in a good location
> for
> > carb ice...45 degrees OAT is not insurance against ice. I think you
lucked
> > out.
> >
> > Bob Gardner
> >
> > "NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Hello, group the wife and I departed at 12:30pm 06-26-04 ceilings
> > scattered
> > > at 4,900' tops 6,000' & clear at the coast we will be flying over
3,800'
> > > terrain. The trip up was a fun flight almost uneventful was fun
weaving
> > > around the clouds will post photos soon. As briefed the clouds were
gone
> > > about 10 miles before the coast line.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We flew out over the pacific ocean about 10 miles looking at all the
> > fishing
> > > boats. The asked the wife if she was ready for me to show her a steep
> > turn,
> > > she said ok. She actually wanted to do another after the first one we
> did
> > a
> > > few other things then decided that we need to land as it is getting
> close
> > to
> > > the bed and breakfast check in time. The winds at our destination were
> 220
> > @
> > > 9 G15. I opted for runway 20 was a bit high on a RP. I decided to
slip
> it
> > > in I explained to the wife what I was going to do she was alright with
a
> > > slip. We landed checked in with the FBO called the place we were
staying
> > at
> > > they picked us up promptly.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The Place we stayed at was The Newly Built Stone Crest Cellar Bed &
> > > Breakfast. Our hostess Judy was a very pleasant upscale lady. If you
are
> > > looking to take your wife on a relaxing log cabin castle type paradise
> > > getaway, on the Oregon coast this is the place to go.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The rooms are great the beds are high quality the complementary wine &
> > > appetizers (cheese & crackers, fresh fruit, chocolate truffles & port)
> are
> > > great. The ocean view's are outstanding from the deck and even better
> from
> > > their hammock on the bluff. The beach access needs a bit of work but
> they
> >
> > > are working on it! The bedding & linens are great quality & very
> > > comfortable. Thick comfortable robes are also provided. The sound of
the
> > > ocean waves will put you to sleep ASAP.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This morning's breakfast was excellent & consisted of gourmet coffee,
> tea,
> > > fresh fruit, fresh O.J., wheat toast, and one dam good omelet nothing
> was
> > > spared, lots of great stuffings and served with a smile. We will
> > definitely
> > > return to The Stone Crest Cellar Bed & Breakfast wish we were able to
> stay
> > > more than 1 night.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We check out Judy takes us back to the airport about a mile away
thanks
> us
> > &
> > > wishes us a safe trip.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Web address for Stone Crest Cellar Bed & Breakfast
> > > http://www.stonecrestbb.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Now the fun begins:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Call in for a weather brief about a half hour prior to getting ot the
> > > airport, Ceilings Scattered 1,600; to 5,500 with mountain's obscured,
> > winds
> > > aloft were light and variable airmass stable. We get fueled up & pre
> > flight,
> > > I program the GPS and fold my chart the way I like it. We depart
runway
> 34
> > > climb up to 6,500 head for the tops of the scatterd clouds. I make the
> > call
> > > to go up to 7,500 It felt more comfortable there and the what a view
the
> > > scattered clouds below. I had to climb up to 8,300' to keep cloud
> > clearance
> > > I set up for cruise, a fiew minuits later the engine starts to run a
bit
> > > ruff. I go through my checks apply carburetor heat it smoothes out
radio
> > to
> > > Seattle center that I have some carburetor ice they ask me for the OAT
> was
> > > about 45 degrees.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I start to descend down to warmer air all of a sudden at 7,500' I get
> > > silence' the engine quits prop is just wind milling! I pitch for best
> > glide
> > > make sure all my checks are done. I see KMMV and I got plenty of
> altitude
> > I
> > > know could make if I could not get restarted. I reported to Seattle
> Center
> > > that I now have an engine out and I may have to be landing other than
my
> > > destination and that I have KMMV in site and I am attempting a
restart.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At about 4,500' I can hear the engine starting to sputter wanting to
> fire
> > > back up as I am descending over KMMV at about 3,800' the ice melted
> engine
> > > regained power burping every now i held altitude until ice was totally
> > gone,
> > > I leave the carburetor heat on, the oil temp started to climb back up
to
> > > normal. I wipe the sweet off my forehead, radio to Seattle Center tell
> > them
> > > that I have it restarted and am going to continue on.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Right after I radioed in to Seattle that I got power back another
pilot
> on
> > > flight following was going west bound at 8,500' called Seattle Center
> > asking
> > > them ware I had the carburetor ice at because he wanted to avoid the
> area.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > All I can say is what a trip I never had carburetor ice so bad that
the
> > > engine went out what a rush it was and the wife really enjoyed the
> little
> > 1
> > > day vacation in paradise.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[NW_PILOT]

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
...
> Glad to hear it...too many pilots fly over water without them. I've flown
> the Astoria-Crescent City trip many times, staying within gliding distance
> of the beach. South of Crescent City there are many places where there is
no
> beach at all. For future reference, I have talked to CEC-based pilots who
> tell me that the fog can roll in mighty fast...racing them to the airport.
>
> Did you lean the mix when you pulled the carb heat on? Remember that
adding
> carb heat richens the mixture and you should lean to compensate.

I was at cruise and yes I was leaned out as I always do at 2,350 rpm the air
was very stable winds aloft were almost non existent it did not even feel
like we were flying, I was just reading a post on google about flying the
150 with a little bit of carb heat on if your in a moist airmass as the
150's carb's really likes to ice up any truth to this? is it wise to cruise
with a little bit of carb heat on in the conditions I was in today?

[G.R. Patterson III]

NW_PILOT wrote:
>
> is it wise to cruise
> with a little bit of carb heat on in the conditions I was in today?

I was taught and have read in several publications that you should always use full
carb heat if you use it at all.

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

[Peter Duniho]

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
> I was taught and have read in several publications that you should
> always use full carb heat if you use it at all.

I would agree with that. The only possible exception being when you have a
carb temp gauge and can ensure that partial carb heat produces temperatures
well above freezing.

I don't think there's really any significant advantage to using partial carb
heat, and at altitude there's generally no problem running with carb heat
full on all of the time, if that's what it takes to keep the carb clear.
(Nod to the pedants around here: possible exceptions being things like
flying through a cloud of volcanic ash, that sort of thing)

Pete

[Cecil Chapman]

I've always wondered about this suggestion? Here's what I'm thinking: If I
fly along and start getting carb ice, generally, I can apply carb heat and
eventually (hopefully) eliminate the condition. At that point, I am aware
that the conditions are conducive to carb ice and take whatever actions I
deem appropriate. BUT,,, IF I have the carb heat on full and I still
manage to ice-up, now I am in a condition that allow me few options to
address - there is no other fall back at that point.

Is there something I'm missing? Is the second scenario I'm describing
impossible? I'd be curious about your thoughts.

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> NW_PILOT wrote:
> >
> > is it wise to cruise
> > with a little bit of carb heat on in the conditions I was in today?
>
> I was taught and have read in several publications that you should always
use full
> carb heat if you use it at all.
>
> George Patterson
> None of us is as dumb as all of us.

[Bob Gardner]

Use partial heat only if you have instrumentation that tells you the
conditions in the carburetor throat, either optically or by temperature. All
unmodified 150's have Continental engines, according to the Blue Book, and
Continentals are far more prone to carb ice than Lycomings. If I was flying
your 150 I would be watching the RPM really close when in conditions
conducive to carb ice, which are illustrated here:
http://www.ez.org/carb_ice.htm.

Bob Gardner
"NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Glad to hear it...too many pilots fly over water without them. I've
flown
> > the Astoria-Crescent City trip many times, staying within gliding
distance
> > of the beach. South of Crescent City there are many places where there
is
> no
> > beach at all. For future reference, I have talked to CEC-based pilots
who
> > tell me that the fog can roll in mighty fast...racing them to the
airport.
> >
> > Did you lean the mix when you pulled the carb heat on? Remember that
> adding
> > carb heat richens the mixture and you should lean to compensate.
>
> I was at cruise and yes I was leaned out as I always do at 2,350 rpm the
air
> was very stable winds aloft were almost non existent it did not even feel
> like we were flying, I was just reading a post on google about flying the
> 150 with a little bit of carb heat on if your in a moist airmass as the
> 150's carb's really likes to ice up any truth to this? is it wise to
cruise
> with a little bit of carb heat on in the conditions I was in today?
>
>

[Andrew Gideon]

Cecil Chapman wrote:

> BUT,,, IF I have the carb heat on full and I still
> manage to ice-up, now I am in a condition that allow me few options to
> address - there is no other fall back at that point.

If you're in conditions where full carb-heat won't prevent carb-ice, what
difference does it make whether you learn that full carb-heat is
insufficient quickly or slowly?

> Is there something I'm missing? Is the second scenario I'm describing
> impossible? I'd be curious about your thoughts.

That's why I asked whether NW had the heat hot when descending (and never
saw an answer, sadly). I've never had a situation where carb-ice formed
despite the heat being on. But that doesn't preclude the possibility (esp.
since I'm in a very different neighborhood).

I've only recently started flying aircraft that have carb-temp gauges. You
can bet I'll be watching those with some curiosity.

- Andrew

[Peter Duniho]

"Cecil Chapman" > wrote in message
. com...
> [...] BUT,,, IF I have the carb heat on full and I still
> manage to ice-up, now I am in a condition that allow me few options to
> address - there is no other fall back at that point.

If you are in conditions conducive to carb ice without carb heat, then
there's no way for full carb heat to produce a conditon that is still
conducive to carb ice. Conversely, if you get carb ice with the carb heat
full on, you are flying in some pretty cold temperatures and there was no
need for carb heat in the first place.

In any case, the problem with partial carb heat is that, without a carb temp
gauge, you have no way of knowing that you haven't created conditions
conducive to carb ice when none existed previously, or that you haven't
turned conditions only a little conducive to carb ice into conditions that
are very conducive to carb ice.

Pete

[NW_PILOT]

Yes, when the engine started to run ruff at 8,300' I put the carb heat on
and started to descend.
"Andrew Gideon" > wrote in message
online.com...
> NW_PILOT wrote:
>
>
> > I start to descend down to warmer air all of a sudden at 7,500' I get
> > silence' the engine quits prop is just wind milling!
>
> You were running with Carb Heat at this point?
>
> - Andrew
>

[NW_PILOT]

I like the idea of a carb temp gauge ware can I get one?


"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I was taught and have read in several publications that you should
> > always use full carb heat if you use it at all.
>
> I would agree with that. The only possible exception being when you have
a
> carb temp gauge and can ensure that partial carb heat produces
temperatures
> well above freezing.
>
> I don't think there's really any significant advantage to using partial
carb
> heat, and at altitude there's generally no problem running with carb heat
> full on all of the time, if that's what it takes to keep the carb clear.
> (Nod to the pedants around here: possible exceptions being things like
> flying through a cloud of volcanic ash, that sort of thing)
>
> Pete
>
>

[NW_PILOT]

Yep, 100% possible I had carb heat on seemed to clear it up a bit then I
decided to descend and it iced up all the way untill engine out with carb
heat on.

"Cecil Chapman" > wrote in message
. com...
> I've always wondered about this suggestion? Here's what I'm thinking: If
I
> fly along and start getting carb ice, generally, I can apply carb heat and
> eventually (hopefully) eliminate the condition. At that point, I am aware
> that the conditions are conducive to carb ice and take whatever actions I
> deem appropriate. BUT,,, IF I have the carb heat on full and I still
> manage to ice-up, now I am in a condition that allow me few options to
> address - there is no other fall back at that point.
>
> Is there something I'm missing? Is the second scenario I'm describing
> impossible? I'd be curious about your thoughts.
>
> --
> --
> =-----
> Good Flights!
>
> Cecil
> PP-ASEL
> Student-IASEL
>
> Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
> checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
> Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com
>
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery -
>
> "We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
> this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
> - Cecil Day Lewis -
> "G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > NW_PILOT wrote:
> > >
> > > is it wise to cruise
> > > with a little bit of carb heat on in the conditions I was in today?
> >
> > I was taught and have read in several publications that you should
always
> use full
> > carb heat if you use it at all.
> >
> > George Patterson
> > None of us is as dumb as all of us.
>
>

[Cecil Chapman]

> Yep, 100% possible I had carb heat on seemed to clear it up a bit then I
> decided to descend and it iced up all the way until engine out with carb
> heat on.

Yeah, I had that happen on my last carb ice 'adventure', but I've always
presumed it was because the carburetor was ingesting large amounts of ice
and water as carb heat was slowly melting the ice that had accumulated in
the carb's throat - which was causing the engine to intermittently quit.
That is,,,, that I had waited longer than I should have before applying carb
heat and was now melting a large amount of ice that was impeding the carb
throat.

This suggestion is not meant to be a shameless plug, but I'd be interested
to know how closely your experience paralleled with my last (i.e. carb ice
prob), if you wouldn't mind taking a peek at this link to the description of
my experience and could e-mail me later after reading it - telling me how
closely our two experiences paralleled.... Just curious.

The link is: http://www.bayareapilot.com/7700AThollister.htm
email me at:


--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

[Cecil Chapman]

> If you're in conditions where full carb-heat won't prevent carb-ice, what
> difference does it make whether you learn that full carb-heat is
> insufficient quickly or slowly?

What I meant was that one could be flying into gradually increasing severity
of carb ice potential with the carb heat kept full on. That is, there
wouldn't be any initial warning that conditions were becoming conducive to
carb icing. If the heat was off, the very first instance of the least
severe (hopefully) carb ice would begin to occur, before moving further into
a condition that was conducive to even faster carb ice accretion - so
perhaps, one would miss the initial 'warning' of possibly more progressively
severe conditions that were waiting just a little beyond where one was
flying.

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

[Peter Duniho]

"NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
...
> I like the idea of a carb temp gauge ware can I get one?

Talk to your mechanic. He'll know where to acquire one, and will have to
install it for you (unless you're an A&P yourself, in which case you
probably already know where to get one :) ).

[Peter Duniho]

"NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
...
> Yep, 100% possible I had carb heat on seemed to clear it up a bit then I
> decided to descend and it iced up all the way untill engine out with carb
> heat on.

But you were descending. Along with using carb heat, one needs to remember
to push the power up every now and then so that the engine is actually
providing enough heat to melt the ice.

Your experience isn't an argument in favor of partial carb heat.

Pete

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:44:07 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
> wrote:

>"NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
...
>> Yep, 100% possible I had carb heat on seemed to clear it up a bit then I
>> decided to descend and it iced up all the way untill engine out with carb
>> heat on.
>
>But you were descending. Along with using carb heat, one needs to remember
>to push the power up every now and then so that the engine is actually
>providing enough heat to melt the ice.
>
>Your experience isn't an argument in favor of partial carb heat.

Did someone post the information about the recent British air
authority decision that pilots could not be trusted to properly apply
carb heat and that the situation ought to be taken out of their hands?

The solution, they say, is to make the application of carb heat either
not needed (fuel injection) or automatic, like it was for years before
fuel injection in cars.

Corky Scott

[gatt]

"NW_PILOT" > wrote in message news:doWdncJyT4TZz0LdRVn-

> All I can say is what a trip I never had carburetor ice so bad that the
> engine went out what a rush it was and the wife really enjoyed the little
1
> day vacation in paradise.

This happened to me on my private long x-ctry, inbound and low over Walla
Walla. I remembered the end of The Great Santini where the pilot augers
rather than eject over a populated area and thinking "Oh, this is crap."
Reported problems, the carb heater straightened things out, I landed and
called the FBO to tell them I was going to take a short walk before starting
the return trip.

Did better than the other student an hour behind me on the same trip. On
his way home, he circled over the factory where he works a bunch of times,
near the bend in the Columbia, got confused and ended up in the MOA north of
Yakima. Turns out he followed the river in the wrong direction instead of
following his DG and waypoints.

-c

[gatt]

"Tony Cox" > wrote in message news:0DJDc.15648

> Well, it probably wasn't vapour lock then. Anyway, sounds
> as if you did a great job!

Agreed. Way to communicate and keep a cool head, Steven. BTW, hope your
wife had an enjoyable flight despite the drama.

-c

[gatt]

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message

> Ten miles out over the ocean in a 150? Life jackets on board? Could you
have
> glided to the beach?

Maybe, but I think the Astoria instrument approach vectors you several miles
off the coast as well. Should jackets be something to include in the
equipment for such a flight?

(I've got a stack of 'em and they don't weigh much, so might as well if I'm
headed that direction, but I've never flown off the coast so far that I
couldn't glide to the beach anyway.)

In any case, life jackets in the Pacific in these parts keep you alive just
long enough for hypothermia to kill you, but it sounds like Steven was on
the ball enough that the Coast Guard would have known where to find him had
he ditched.

-c

[gatt]

"NW_PILOT" > wrote in message news:MvqdnT3kkdk-J0LdRVn-

<I was just reading a post on google about flying the
> 150 with a little bit of carb heat on if your in a moist airmass as the
> 150's carb's really likes to ice up any truth to this? is it wise to
cruise
> with a little bit of carb heat on in the conditions I was in today?

I think the use of carb heat is generally binary (on or off), but I have
noticed in the last month that I've had to use carb heat a lot more often
than usual in normal cruise situations.

-c

[Teacherjh]

>>
If you're in conditions where full carb-heat won't prevent carb-ice, what
difference does it make whether you learn that full carb-heat is
insufficient quickly or slowly?
<<

I was taught that, in general, if full carb heat brings the carb temp up to a
point of icing, then using NO carb heat will keep the carb cold enough to avoid
icing. I'm not sure this is true however, but in any case, colder air holds
less water.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)