Running runup?

[G. Burkhart]

When I did my training my CFI taught me to stop at the run-up area and
go through the run-up checklist. This was done at airports that had run-up
areas readily available. Fairly recently, I went with an instructor that
taught me to do a run-up during taxi on airports that don't have a run-up
area or require back taxi on the runway. Some of the local airstrips have
narrow (or no) taxiways and they lead right to the runway with little room
to stop to do a run-up so I've gotten into the habit of doing the run-up
while taxiing. I make sure to check outside to where I'm going while
checking the mag drops, etc. That way I'm ready for departure by the time I
get to the runway, which is helpful when others are following behind me on
the taxiway, especially during fly-ins. Some airports require back taxi on
the runway from the ramp/taxiway and I'll do the (stopped) run-up before
getting on the runway or a run-up during the back taxi so I'm ready to go
when I turn around for departure.

Do you do 'running' run-ups?

[Ditch]

> Do you do 'running' run-ups?
>

Not anymore. I have done them when I was towing banners and we would do a quick
turn and taxiing out I would do a quick mag check to expedite things...but
nowadays I just stop and do one. Too many things can distract you while doing
it on the go.
If there is no "run-up" area for the runway, you could always stop on the
taxiway, check behind you to make sure you aren't going to blast someone, and
then do a run-up. If someone is behind you..well..no suggestion there.


-John
*You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or North
American*

[Hilton]

G. Burkhart wrote:
> Do you do 'running' run-ups?

I do when I fly seaplanes, but then I don't have a choice. :) Seriously,
why increase the risk of an incident when a 172 runup can be done in about a
minute?

Hilton

[Bela P. Havasreti]

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 04:35:29 GMT, "G. Burkhart" >
wrote:

> When I did my training my CFI taught me to stop at the run-up area and
>go through the run-up checklist. This was done at airports that had run-up
>areas readily available. Fairly recently, I went with an instructor that
>taught me to do a run-up during taxi on airports that don't have a run-up
>area or require back taxi on the runway. Some of the local airstrips have
>narrow (or no) taxiways and they lead right to the runway with little room
>to stop to do a run-up so I've gotten into the habit of doing the run-up
>while taxiing. I make sure to check outside to where I'm going while
>checking the mag drops, etc. That way I'm ready for departure by the time I
>get to the runway, which is helpful when others are following behind me on
>the taxiway, especially during fly-ins. Some airports require back taxi on
>the runway from the ramp/taxiway and I'll do the (stopped) run-up before
>getting on the runway or a run-up during the back taxi so I'm ready to go
>when I turn around for departure.
>
> Do you do 'running' run-ups?
>

Yes.

In places such as you mention (where there really isn't anyplace to
pull over and run-up) and also like you say, leaving fly-ins, where
you want to be ready to go when you get to the departure end of the
runway (as opposed to looking for some spot to run up, where there
already is dozens of airplanes trying to do the same thing).

There is a little extra wear on the brakes (doing a runup while
rolling along) but brake pads are relatively cheap.... (I know
they're not dirt-cheap!).

Bela P. Havasreti

[C J Campbell]

I avoid them while taxiing. A run-up takes only a few seconds anyway.

[Colin]

"G. Burkhart" > wrote:

> When I did my training my CFI taught me to stop at the run-up area and
>go through the run-up checklist. This was done at airports that had run-up
>areas readily available. Fairly recently, I went with an instructor that
>taught me to do a run-up during taxi on airports that don't have a run-up
>area or require back taxi on the runway. Some of the local airstrips have
>narrow (or no) taxiways and they lead right to the runway with little room
>to stop to do a run-up so I've gotten into the habit of doing the run-up
>while taxiing. I make sure to check outside to where I'm going while
>checking the mag drops, etc. That way I'm ready for departure by the time I
>get to the runway, which is helpful when others are following behind me on
>the taxiway, especially during fly-ins. Some airports require back taxi on
>the runway from the ramp/taxiway and I'll do the (stopped) run-up before
>getting on the runway or a run-up during the back taxi so I'm ready to go
>when I turn around for departure.
>
> Do you do 'running' run-ups?
>

In UK they teach full pre-TO checks on the taxiway. Everyone turns 60
deg off taxiway heading, whether or not ther is anyone behind.

[Cub Driver]

> Do you do 'running' run-ups?

I don't, no. Too much to think about. I fly only out of untowered
fields, and I've never seen an airport where there wasn't someplace to
do the runup--even on the runway itself. I'd feel safer tucked down at
the far end (the Cub is yellow) than doing the thang while taxiing.

Heck, on most of these fields, I'm back-taxiing on the active anyhow
:)


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[Joe Johnson]

You could turn so you're not parallel to the taxiway if someone's behind
you.

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 04:35:29 GMT, "G. Burkhart" > wrote:

> Do you do 'running' run-ups?

In a seaplane, all the time <g>.

In my Mooney -- I see no reason to do so. By "run-up" I assume you mean
the portion of the pre-takeoff check list when the engine is at a faster
speed than idle.

How long does it take to run the engine up to 1900 rpm (or whatever it is
on your a/c), cycle the prop once (or however many times your POH -- not
your first instructor -- says to do it) and do a mag check? Fifteen
seconds tops? Rarely longer if something is found. And occasionally
longer if it's the first flight of the day.

Now then the parts of the pre-takeoff check list that do not require the
engine to be at other than idle, if there is a significant operational
advantage, I will sometimes do those on the roll. For example, check fuel
on fullest tank, seat belts, doors, windows, instruments, flaps, etc.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Henry and Debbie McFarland]

> Do you do 'running' run-ups?

Yes. If you attend any of the major fly-ins your run-up will be a rolling
one.

Deb
--
1946 Luscombe 8A (His)
1948 Luscombe 8E (Hers)
1954 Cessna 195B, restoring (Ours)
Jasper, Ga. (JZP)


"G. Burkhart" > wrote in message
news:lk6Ec.1801$AI.68@attbi_s04...
> When I did my training my CFI taught me to stop at the run-up area and
> go through the run-up checklist. This was done at airports that had run-up
> areas readily available. Fairly recently, I went with an instructor that
> taught me to do a run-up during taxi on airports that don't have a run-up
> area or require back taxi on the runway. Some of the local airstrips have
> narrow (or no) taxiways and they lead right to the runway with little room
> to stop to do a run-up so I've gotten into the habit of doing the run-up
> while taxiing. I make sure to check outside to where I'm going while
> checking the mag drops, etc. That way I'm ready for departure by the time
I
> get to the runway, which is helpful when others are following behind me on
> the taxiway, especially during fly-ins. Some airports require back taxi on
> the runway from the ramp/taxiway and I'll do the (stopped) run-up before
> getting on the runway or a run-up during the back taxi so I'm ready to go
> when I turn around for departure.
>
>
>

[Dave Stadt]

"Henry and Debbie McFarland" > wrote in message
link.net...
> > Do you do 'running' run-ups?
>
> Yes. If you attend any of the major fly-ins your run-up will be a rolling
> one.
>
> Deb
> --
> 1946 Luscombe 8A (His)
> 1948 Luscombe 8E (Hers)
> 1954 Cessna 195B, restoring (Ours)
> Jasper, Ga. (JZP)

You can add skis and floats to the list that require run-ups on the move.

[AJW]

>
>> Do you do 'running' run-ups?
>

I do NOT check prop and mags on my Mooney while running, because I want to
control my taxi speed w/o riding the brakes.

I've been known to do VOR checks and the like while taxiing, but unless your
checklist has items in a suitable order (hey, at 3000 hours, nearly all in the
same airplane, I still use a checklist) it's easier to overlook something if
you do a running run-up. Also, your head is inside the cockpit for those hmmm,
15 oor 20 seconds.

As for that guy who flys a seaplane? There's something even stanger about guys
who land on water than those of us who with our tail backwards (M20J).

[Jay Honeck]

> Yes. If you attend any of the major fly-ins your run-up will be a rolling
> one.

Amen.

If you stop to do a "proper" run-up right before departing OSH (or SNF),
you'll have four FAA guys in pink shirts absolutely apoplectic, jumping up
and down and waving flags at you! "Rolling" run-ups are sometimes your only
option.

Many times the traffic gets backed up considerably, however, and you can
kinda cock the plane to the side, and do a "real" run-up. Of course, then
you get into the discussion of WHEN to do your run-up.

If you do a run-up in line, and it's five or ten (or 20?) minutes till you
depart, you've lost much of the utility of doing a run-up. Isn't the idea
to do the run-up as close to departure as possible, to ensure that the
engine and prop are functioning properly at take-off?

It's probably my own paranoia, but I try to do my run-up right before
fire-walling the throttle so that nothing else has a chance to break in the
meantime.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[G.R. Patterson III]

"G. Burkhart" wrote:
>
> Do you do 'running' run-ups?

No.

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On 29 Jun 2004 12:44:09 GMT, (AJW) wrote:

>As for that guy who flys a seaplane? There's something even stanger about guys
>who land on water than those of us who with our tail backwards (M20J).

And what makes you think the M20E or M20J has a tail on backwards? Don't
you know it's all those others that have it wrong :-))


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

[Dale]

In article <lk6Ec.1801$AI.68@attbi_s04>,
"G. Burkhart" > wrote:


> Do you do 'running' run-ups?

Always. I fly from a turf field....stationary runup is bad for the
prop. Once rolling I come up to 1700 for the mag check, then back to
idle to control speed.....up to 2000 for a quick prop check. Being on
grass the speed doesn't become a big issue...no need to hold brakes
during the checks.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[AJW]

>
>>As for that guy who flys a seaplane? There's something even stanger about
>guys
>>who land on water than those of us who with our tail backwards (M20J).
>
>And what makes you think the M20E or M20J has a tail on backwards? Don't
>you know it's all those others that have it wrong :-))
Let's justy say those of us who drive Mooneys like our tail a little
differently than some others.

[AJW]

>
>
>> Do you do 'running' run-ups?
>
>Always. I fly from a turf field....stationary runup is bad for the
>prop. Once rolling I come up to 1700 for the mag check, then back to
>idle to control speed.....up to 2000 for a quick prop check. Being on
>grass the speed doesn't become a big issue...no need to hold brakes
>during the checks.
>
>--
>Dale L. Falk
>
>There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
>as simply messing around with airplanes.
>
You do mean, don't you, referring to your sign off, subject to the limitation
"sith your clothes on"?

[Dale]

In article >,
(AJW) wrote:



> You do mean, don't you, referring to your sign off, subject to the limitation
> "sith your clothes on"?

No. <g>

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Andrew Gideon]

Henry and Debbie McFarland wrote:

>> Do you do 'running' run-ups?
>
> Yes. If you attend any of the major fly-ins your run-up will be a rolling
> one.

I just checked out in a new (to me) club airplane. At some point, I was
taxiing and the CFI suggested I do something. I don't recall what it was,
but it wasn't one of the items that *must* be done while moving (ie.
checking for proper function of the AI, HI, and TC).

I reminded him that, if I did as he suggested with a certain other CFI in
the club for a checkout, I'd fail.

So I guess the right answer is "it depends".

- Andrew

[Thomas Borchert]

Dale,

> Always. I fly from a turf field....stationary runup is bad for the
> prop.

How? If it were dirt, I might understand, but turf?

> Being on
> grass the speed doesn't become a big issue...no need to hold brakes
> during the checks.
>

I disagree, strongly. Going with 2000 rpm, our Tobago would move like a
rocket on our turf field.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

Ajw,

> >There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
> >as simply messing around with airplanes.
> >
> You do mean, don't you, referring to your sign off, subject to the limitation
> "sith your clothes on"?
>

Ah, to be young again ;-)

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Cub Driver]

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:38:23 -0800, Dale > wrote:

>Always. I fly from a turf field....stationary runup is bad for the
>prop. Once rolling I come up to 1700 for the mag check, then back to
>idle to control speed.....up to 2000 for a quick prop check. Being on
>grass the speed doesn't become a big issue...no need to hold brakes
>during the checks.

Wow. I think I will leave that one for the next life.

I fly from a turf field too. The only time the surface has ever been
an issue is when a 172 driver was taxiing too fast and dug up some
stones with his prop.

We do have the occasional walk-through by the Boy Scouts, who pick up
stones and stuff. I suppose the scout-master is a pilot.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[G.R. Patterson III]

Thomas Borchert wrote:
>
> Ah, to be young again ;-)

This time with money. :-)

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

[Dale]

In article >,
Cub Driver > wrote:


> I fly from a turf field too. The only time the surface has ever been
> an issue is when a 172 driver was taxiing too fast and dug up some
> stones with his prop.

In a taildragger it wouldn't be a problem. I'm flying a 206, even on
grass you'll pick up some dirt/small stones that erode the prop. At $8K
a prop it just isn't worth it.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Dale]

In article >,
Thomas Borchert > wrote:


> How? If it were dirt, I might understand, but turf?

There's dirt under that grass. Even water can erode a prop, imagine
what dirt or small stones can do.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Dale]

In article >,
Thomas Borchert > wrote:



> I disagree, strongly. Going with 2000 rpm, our Tobago would move like a
> rocket on our turf field.

Have you tried it? Sure, you'll be moving faster than a "walking pace"
taxi, but not so fast as to be a hazard.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Teacherjh]

>>
I'm flying a 206, even on
grass you'll pick up some dirt/small stones that erode the prop.
<<

is it really the prop that picks the stones up? Anybody studied the physics
involved?

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Dale]

In article >,
(Teacherjh) wrote:



> is it really the prop that picks the stones up? Anybody studied the physics
> involved?

Watch an airplane during a runup with standing water on the surface.
Directly under the prop you'll see a little "mini tornado" of water
being picked up from the surface. If you happen to watch someone
foolish enough to do a runup over dirt/gravel you'll see the same
thing...but it will be dirt/dust/rocks in the tornado instead of water.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[OtisWinslow]

I do on occasion when the situation warrants. But that's not very often.
Turning
a little sideways on the taxiway and just doing it really doesn't take that
long. Switches
and other checks can be done on the roll while taxiing.


"G. Burkhart" > wrote in message
news:lk6Ec.1801$AI.68@attbi_s04...
> When I did my training my CFI taught me to stop at the run-up area and
> go through the run-up checklist. This was done at airports that had run-up
> areas readily available. Fairly recently, I went with an instructor that
> taught me to do a run-up during taxi on airports that don't have a run-up
> area or require back taxi on the runway. Some of the local airstrips have
> narrow (or no) taxiways and they lead right to the runway with little room
> to stop to do a run-up so I've gotten into the habit of doing the run-up
> while taxiing. I make sure to check outside to where I'm going while
> checking the mag drops, etc. That way I'm ready for departure by the time
I
> get to the runway, which is helpful when others are following behind me on
> the taxiway, especially during fly-ins. Some airports require back taxi on
> the runway from the ramp/taxiway and I'll do the (stopped) run-up before
> getting on the runway or a run-up during the back taxi so I'm ready to go
> when I turn around for departure.
>
> Do you do 'running' run-ups?
>
>

[Newps]

"Dale" > wrote in message
...
>
> Have you tried it?

Yes. At 2000 rpm I would accelerating at quite a clip. After a couple
hundred yards I'd be doing in excess of 30 mph.

[Thomas Borchert]

Dale,

> Have you tried it? Sure, you'll be moving faster than a "walking pace"
> taxi, but not so fast as to be a hazard.
>

Yes. And I disagree. Definitely hazardous.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Cub Driver]

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:18:19 -0800, Dale > wrote:

>Watch an airplane during a runup with standing water on the surface.
>Directly under the prop you'll see a little "mini tornado" of water
>being picked up from the surface.

This is why I follow the newsgroups. You never can tell when you'll
pick up some priceless bit of information!

I look forward to my next visit to Alton Bay to see if it happens on
the lake. (Perhaps not, since the runups presumably are all running.)


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[G.R. Patterson III]

Newps wrote:
>
> Yes. At 2000 rpm I would accelerating at quite a clip. After a couple
> hundred yards I'd be doing in excess of 30 mph.

If I tried to do my runup with no brakes, I'd be airborne before I finished the mag
check.

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

[Dale]

In article >,
"Newps" > wrote:


> Yes. At 2000 rpm I would accelerating at quite a clip. After a couple
> hundred yards I'd be doing in excess of 30 mph.


Good grief, how long does it take you to cycle a prop? <G> You're only
at that power setting for a few seconds...but by all means do what
you're comfortable with.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Newps]

"Dale" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Newps" > wrote:
>
>
> > Yes. At 2000 rpm I would accelerating at quite a clip. After a couple
> > hundred yards I'd be doing in excess of 30 mph.
>
>
> Good grief, how long does it take you to cycle a prop? <G> You're only
> at that power setting for a few seconds...but by all means do what
> you're comfortable with.

Prop, mags and carb heat are done at 1700 rpm in virtually all Cessna's.
The exact rpm isn't important.

[Dale]

In article >,
"Newps" > wrote:


>
> Prop, mags and carb heat are done at 1700 rpm in virtually all Cessna's.
> The exact rpm isn't important.


The Hartzell prop needs 2000 RPM.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Jack]

On 7/1/04 4:40 AM, in article ,
"Cub Driver" > wrote:

> On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:18:19 -0800, Dale > wrote:
>
>> Watch an airplane during a runup with standing water on the surface.
>> Directly under the prop you'll see a little "mini tornado" of water
>> being picked up from the surface.
>
> This is why I follow the newsgroups. You never can tell when you'll
> pick up some priceless bit of information!

The same thing is often seen below the engine inlets of airliners with low
wing-mounted engines (737s, and others) on wet taxiways.


--
Jack
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Robert M. Gary]

"G. Burkhart" > wrote in message news:<lk6Ec.1801$AI.68@attbi_s04>...
> When I did my training my CFI taught me to stop at the run-up area and
> go through the run-up checklist. This was done at airports that had run-up
> areas readily available. Fairly recently, I went with an instructor that


In the sea plane we do them during take off. You never want to move
the throttle above idle for any reason other than take off because it
picks the water up and dings the prop. You have to reduce the number
of seconds you spend at non-idle throttle.

-Robert

[Cub Driver]

On 6 Jul 2004 21:15:39 -0700, (Robert M. Gary) wrote:

>You never want to move
>the throttle above idle for any reason other than take off because it
>picks the water up and dings the prop.

Aha! Now I really want to spend a few hours at Alton Bay (NH) and see
this phenom for myself.

(I've only ever been to Alton Bay in the winter, at least with respect
to airplanes. I mispent a lot of time there when I was in high school,
looking for the girls of summer.)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org