Flying from the US into Canada (Toronto)

[Kobra]

After the 4th of July I am planning a flight from the Philadelphia area to
Niagara Falls (YSN). I figured a short hop from there would be Toronto City
Centre Airport that I just read about in Pilot Getaways.

What are the proceedures for a US pilot to fly into Canada? I know I would
need to fly into an airport-of-entry which Niagara District (YSN) airport
is, but do I need a passport? Would I need to file any paperwork before I
take off? etc.? Thanks for any help.

Kobra

[Jonathan]

Kobra wrote:

> After the 4th of July I am planning a flight from the Philadelphia area to
> Niagara Falls (YSN). I figured a short hop from there would be Toronto City
> Centre Airport that I just read about in Pilot Getaways.
>
> What are the proceedures for a US pilot to fly into Canada? I know I would
> need to fly into an airport-of-entry which Niagara District (YSN) airport
> is, but do I need a passport? Would I need to file any paperwork before I
> take off? etc.? Thanks for any help.
>
> Kobra
>
>
I am not 100% sure on this, but I believe that it depends on how long
you will be there. If you are just going to be stopping by for the day,
there isnt much to do. If you plan on leaving the airport and staying
for a while there is a lot more to do. I had a link a while back, but
cant seem to find it now...I will keep looking :)

--
Jonathan,

www.virtual-hangar.com

[tony roberts]

I believe that copanational.org has a lot of info on this.

Tony
--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Almost Instrument :)
Cessna 172H C-GICE


In article >,
"Kobra" > wrote:

> After the 4th of July I am planning a flight from the Philadelphia area to
> Niagara Falls (YSN). I figured a short hop from there would be Toronto City
> Centre Airport that I just read about in Pilot Getaways.
>
> What are the proceedures for a US pilot to fly into Canada? I know I would
> need to fly into an airport-of-entry which Niagara District (YSN) airport
> is, but do I need a passport? Would I need to file any paperwork before I
> take off? etc.? Thanks for any help.
>
> Kobra
>
>

[Michelle P]

www.aopa.org.
Everything your need. accurate. I went to Montreal a year ago and
everything went as they said.
Michelle


Kobra wrote:

>After the 4th of July I am planning a flight from the Philadelphia area to
>Niagara Falls (YSN). I figured a short hop from there would be Toronto City
>Centre Airport that I just read about in Pilot Getaways.
>
>What are the proceedures for a US pilot to fly into Canada? I know I would
>need to fly into an airport-of-entry which Niagara District (YSN) airport
>is, but do I need a passport? Would I need to file any paperwork before I
>take off? etc.? Thanks for any help.
>
>Kobra
>
>
>
>

--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

[Journeyman]

In article >, Kobra wrote:
>
> What are the proceedures for a US pilot to fly into Canada? I know I would
> need to fly into an airport-of-entry which Niagara District (YSN) airport
> is, but do I need a passport? Would I need to file any paperwork before I
> take off? etc.? Thanks for any help.


AOPA has an info pack available. And a search on google groups should
yield some info for this frequently asked question.

Before you leave for Canada, you need to call 1-888-CANPASS, tell them
your tail number, your ETA, who's on board, etc. Get a confirmation
number. They require at least 1 or 2 hours (IIRC) advance notice, no
more than 24. Then, when you arrive, if no-one's waiting for you, call
CANPASS again and let them know you've arrived. They will give you
a confirmation number that you've cleared customs (yes, they clear you
over the phone). NavCanada (ATC) will bill you by mail (although I
haven't received any bills yet).

When you cross the border, you need to be on an active VFR or IFR
flight plan, with a discrete squawk code _and_ talking to ATC (IFR
or flight following).

Flying within Canada has a few differences. You need to file a flight
plan for any flight over 25 NM (IIRC, maybe 50?). Joining the circuit
(pattern) at an uncontrolled field, you cross midfield at circuit
altitude to join the downwind. Some nontower airports are "Mandatory
Frequency"--you do need to talk on the radio. Monitor 126.7 enroute
if able.

Coming back into the U.S., you need a customs sticker, which you can
order over the web. On a trip to Canada earlier this year, I used the
confirmation number and a print-out of the web order form, since the
sticker was only ordered the day before. You need to call the customs
facility for the airport where you will be landing (long distance call)
and they each have different rules for notice. Customs at my home
airport is only available M-F regular hours, but they will be there
evenings/weekends on request with advance notice (someone gets some
overtime pay). The airport I've crossed at coming home from Montreal
has longer hours, seven days per week, with one-hour advanced notice
required (lessee, 10 minutes to preflight, 10 to taxi & run up,
40-minute flight...).

HTH,


Morris

[EDR]

Google this topic.
Someone else asked this question not more than three months ago.
Lots of good answers in the archives.

[James Robinson]

Kobra wrote:
>
> ... do I need a passport?

The requirement for both entry to Canada and return to the US is that
you need to bring proof of your citizenship. That could be a passport,
or, assuming you were born in the US, an original copy of your birth
certificate, with the embossed seal of the issuing agency. A photocopy
is not sufficient.

That said, sometimes they never ask to see it, and if you don't bring
the proper documents, it is up to the immigration officer if he will
accept things like driver's licenses. It's best to bring the right
documents to avoid a hassle.

[Andrew Sarangan]

Michelle P > wrote in
ink.net:

> www.aopa.org.
> Everything your need. accurate. I went to Montreal a year ago and
> everything went as they said.
> Michelle
>


Although AOPA strives to provide accurate information, this aspect still
has a lot of confusion. For example, the document
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/guides/canadabrief.html says phone
numbers for US customs can be found in the front pages of the AOPA online
airport directory. I looked, but I could not find anything like that in
the front pages of the online directory. In the AOPA customs guide, there
is a link to US customs http://www.customs.gov/xp/cgov/toolbox/ports/ to
find out about airports of entry. May be I am stupid, but I can't
understand the listings in that document. The hours of operation of most
places are listed as 8am-4pm Mon-Fri. However, when I called Sandusky
airport, the customs inspector said they are open seven days a week.
There was another pdf document I found on AOPA (can't recall the link)
that had yet a different customs hours listed for each airport. AOPA also
recommends calling both customs and immigration upon enty into the US.
But I have not yet found a number for US immigration. When I phoned
customs at Sandusky, the inspector said there was no need to call
immigration. Confusing? I think so! On the Canadian side, my planned
landing airport is Waterloo (Ontario), which is an airport of entry. The
airport website lists a customs service fee is $250. Ouch! I thought
customs service was free at airports of entry. Is this a misprint?
Therefore, it is not surprising that so many people are confused
(including myself).

[Peter Duniho]

"Martin Hotze" > wrote in message
...
> don't you need a photo-id anyway as a pilot flying in the US?

"Photo ID" and "proof of citizenship" are not the same.

That said, I was not aware of any requirement to carry proof of citizenship.
Many US and Canada citizens both have never been issued a passport, and
certainly do not travel with their birth certificate, and yet they are
permitted to cross the Canada-US border freely.

If there's a requirement to carry proof of citizenship, it's new. There
never was one the last time I flew between the US and Canada (which
admittedly was quite a while ago, and well before 9/11/01).

Pete

[James Robinson]

Peter Duniho wrote:
>
> If there's a requirement to carry proof of citizenship, it's new. There
> never was one the last time I flew between the US and Canada (which
> admittedly was quite a while ago, and well before 9/11/01).

No, it's not new. It has been the requirement for decades. What is new
is that the US authorities, in particular, enforce it much more
rigorously now. In the past, they would often accept a driver's license
as ID if you were driving a car from that state, and otherwise appeared
harmless. They started tightening up with the first Gulf war, and
tightened up further with 9/11.

As I said, it reduces hassles if you carry the proper documentation.

[EDR]

In article >, Martin Hotze
> wrote:

> don't you need a photo-id anyway as a pilot flying in the US?

Only for transborder flights.
An expired passport is acceptable.

[Andrew Sarangan]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in
:

> "Martin Hotze" > wrote in message
> ...
>> don't you need a photo-id anyway as a pilot flying in the US?
>
> "Photo ID" and "proof of citizenship" are not the same.
>
> That said, I was not aware of any requirement to carry proof of
> citizenship. Many US and Canada citizens both have never been issued a
> passport, and certainly do not travel with their birth certificate,
> and yet they are permitted to cross the Canada-US border freely.
>
> If there's a requirement to carry proof of citizenship, it's new.
> There never was one the last time I flew between the US and Canada
> (which admittedly was quite a while ago, and well before 9/11/01).
>
> Pete
>
>
>


Proof of citizenship was always required to cross the border.
http://travel.state.gov/canada.html
Whether or not every inspector enforced those rules is a different matter.
But I doubt if any inspector will let you pass without proof of citizenship
now.

[James Robinson]

Martin Hotze wrote:
>
> don't you need a photo-id anyway as a pilot flying in the US?

Yes, in addition to proof of citizenship you need a photo ID. A
passport fulfills both requirements.

Here are the Canadian requirements:

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/newsroom/factsheets/2003/july/visitingcanada-e.html

========================================
Carry appropriate identification

All travellers entering Canada are required to provide proof of
citizenship. A passport is ideal, however, your birth certificate,
certificate of citizenship, or naturalization certificate, when
presented with valid photo identification such as a drivers license will
also be accepted. If you are a permanent resident of the U.S., you
should bring your green card.

Carry identification for all children travelling with you, regardless of
their age

Our customs officers watch for missing children and may ask detailed
questions about the children who are travelling with you. Parents who
share custody of their children should carry copies of the legal custody
documents. If you are travelling with a child who is not your own, you
need a note from the parents or guardians granting you permission to
have the child with you. When travelling with a group of vehicles,
parents or guardians should arrive at the border in the same vehicle as
the children.
=======================================

Here are the US requirements for reentry:

http://travel.state.gov/tips_canada.html

=======================================
Immigration

To re-enter the United States, returning U.S. citizens need to show the
Department of Homeland Security officer proof of identity, such as a
driver’s license, and proof of citizenship, such as a passport, birth
certificate, or Certificate of Naturalization. A U.S. passport is proof
of both citizenship and identity. Persons who are dual nationals should
enter the U.S. using U.S. documents only, as they could be fined under
U.S. law for entering the U.S. on a foreign passport. U.S. citizens
returning to the U.S. via air or bus who lack proof of citizenship
should contact the U.S. Embassy or nearest U.S. consulate for
assistance.

=======================================

[Matt Young]

If I'm correct FARs were changed a couple of years ago. PIC is always
required to have in his possession or easily accessible
1) Pilot Certificate
2) Medical Certificate
3) Govt' Issued Photo ID

EDR wrote:

> In article >, Martin Hotze
> > wrote:
>
>
>>don't you need a photo-id anyway as a pilot flying in the US?
>
>
> Only for transborder flights.
> An expired passport is acceptable.

[Matt Young]

You need a photo id anytime acting as pic or required crew member in the US

FAR61.3(a)(2)

EDR wrote:

> In article >, Martin Hotze
> > wrote:
>
>
>>don't you need a photo-id anyway as a pilot flying in the US?
>
>
> Only for transborder flights.
> An expired passport is acceptable.

[Matt Young]

FAR 61.3(a)(2)

Matt Young wrote:

> If I'm correct FARs were changed a couple of years ago. PIC is always
> required to have in his possession or easily accessible
> 1) Pilot Certificate
> 2) Medical Certificate
> 3) Govt' Issued Photo ID
>
> EDR wrote:
>
>> In article >, Martin Hotze
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> don't you need a photo-id anyway as a pilot flying in the US?
>>
>>
>>
>> Only for transborder flights.
>> An expired passport is acceptable.

[Peter Duniho]

"Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
. 158...
> Proof of citizenship was always required to cross the border.
> http://travel.state.gov/canada.html

Amazing. I've crossed into and out of Canada dozens of times (most of those
driving, but several times flying) and have never carried any proof of
citizenship. Never been asked for it either, not by either US or Canada
Customs.

[Martin Hotze]

On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 11:58:51 -0700, Peter Duniho wrote:

>> don't you need a photo-id anyway as a pilot flying in the US?
>
>"Photo ID" and "proof of citizenship" are not the same.


OK. thanks 4 the info

(FYI: almost any photo ID in Europe is also some sort of proof of
citizenship; nationality is stated on the ID and therefore checked by the
issuing authority)

#m
--
Michael Moore: Fahrenheit 9/11:
http://www.fahrenheit911.com/

[Jay Somerset]

On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 01:18:42 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
> wrote:

> "Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
> . 158...
> > Proof of citizenship was always required to cross the border.
> > http://travel.state.gov/canada.html
>
> Amazing. I've crossed into and out of Canada dozens of times (most of those
> driving, but several times flying) and have never carried any proof of
> citizenship. Never been asked for it either, not by either US or Canada
> Customs.
>

Most of the time, the Canadian border agent will only ask you, and not
require proof of citizenship (although they can, and can refuse you entry if
you don't have it). Coming back into the US, the US border agent is
REQUIRED to see proof of citizenship if the country is on a "yellow" or
higher alert status. If they don't they have violated their standing
instructions.

How often have you driven back in the past year or so?

[Peter Duniho]

"Jay Somerset" > wrote in message
...
> How often have you driven back in the past year or so?

Well, as with flying, I haven't crossed the border since 9/11 while driving.

It doesn't surprise me that proof of citizenship is required *now*,
post-9/11. I was just surprised that the rules were not new (post-9/11),
according to two people who replied to my post.

Pete

[Robert M. Gary]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message >...
> "Martin Hotze" > wrote in message
> ...
> > don't you need a photo-id anyway as a pilot flying in the US?
>
> "Photo ID" and "proof of citizenship" are not the same.
>
> That said, I was not aware of any requirement to carry proof of citizenship.
> Many US and Canada citizens both have never been issued a passport, and
> certainly do not travel with their birth certificate, and yet they are
> permitted to cross the Canada-US border freely.
>
> If there's a requirement to carry proof of citizenship, it's new. There
> never was one the last time I flew between the US and Canada (which
> admittedly was quite a while ago, and well before 9/11/01).


I've done it many times between the U.S. and Mexico and now once
between Canada and the U.S. Canada wanted proof of citizenship for
everyone on board. They were pretty tight about it too. I've never had
the U.S. ask for anyone other than me (the pilot). However, 2 of my
pax are under 10 so it may be easier with them.

BTW: When I got back from Canada yesterday the customs guy at Friday
was talking about how crazy the boarder is in Canada right now. He
said its unbelievable how easy it is for crazies to get resident
permits to live in Canada. He said the U.S. is 10 times more worried
about the type of people coming in from Canada than Mexico. Mexico is
actually a bit of work to get resident Visas, he said Canada takes
anyone, regardless of their terrorist history. He also said the U.S.
has offered to train the Canadian boarder patrol but they did not
accept.

-Robert

[James Robinson]

Kobra wrote:
>
> After the 4th of July I am planning a flight from the Philadelphia area to
> Niagara Falls (YSN).

This may be a bit late, but there are a couple of web sites not already
mentioned that discuss the general requirements, which you might find
useful. Here is one from a member of the Rochester Flying Club:

http://www.rochesterflyingclub.com/flying_to_canada.shtml

Be sure to check the links at the bottom of the page.

[James Robinson]

"Robert M. Gary" wrote:
>
> BTW: When I got back from Canada yesterday the customs guy at Friday
> was talking about how crazy the boarder is in Canada right now. He
> said its unbelievable how easy it is for crazies to get resident
> permits to live in Canada.

That's been a point of contention between the US and Canada for a number
of years. Canada has a more liberal immigration and refugee policy than
the US, and the US sees this difference as a back door that would
potentially allow people hostile to the US to get onto the North
American continent.

As proof, they cite the example of the person caught trying to smuggle
explosives into the US through Port Angeles, WA. However, also I recall
that the US tried to blame Canada for allowing the 9/11 hijackers into
the country, only to find that they pretty well all had directly entered
the US on valid visas. Trying to blame Canada suggests a certain
paranoia on the part of US authorities.

Canada suggests that the US concern is simply US xenophobia, and an
attempt to force Canada to adopt US foreign policies. (Canada has direct
relations with Cuba, for example, which seems to irk the US.) The feel
their refugee policy is appropriate and humanitarian given the problems
in the world.

Both countries have good arguments supporting their side of the issue.

> He said the U.S. is 10 times more worried about the type of
> people coming in from Canada than Mexico.

Now that's a knee slapper. Anyone who has spent any amount of time in
Mexico knows that it is a virtually lawless society. It is very easy to
enter that country and remain there. All you need to do is grease the
hands of a few of the right people. It would then be relatively easy
for a darker skinned person to blend in with the virtual flood of people
entering the US illegally every day.

> He also said the U.S. has offered to train the Canadian boarder
> patrol but they did not accept.

There is no Canadian Border Patrol. The function is handled by the
RCMP, the "Mounties." It seems condescending to suggest they need
training.

[Rich]

(Robert M. Gary) wrote in message
>
> BTW: When I got back from Canada yesterday the customs guy at Friday
> was talking about how crazy the boarder is in Canada right now. He
> said its unbelievable how easy it is for crazies to get resident
> permits to live in Canada. He said the U.S. is 10 times more worried
> about the type of people coming in from Canada than Mexico. Mexico is
> actually a bit of work to get resident Visas, he said Canada takes
> anyone, regardless of their terrorist history. He also said the U.S.
> has offered to train the Canadian boarder patrol but they did not
> accept.
>
> -Robert

We just moved from the US to Canada last week and I can tell you first
hand that the Canadian border is essentially unsecure and unprotected.
We had a 25 foot Penske truck - did the look inside? No. Also a 14
foot enclosed cargo trailer - did they look inside? No. But they sure
got excited about a John Deere tractor that we had listed as
inventory, until they determined its value was under $10,000 CDN. (if
it was more than than 10K they would collect some tax). In my
experience Canada Customs/Immigration is focused entirely on revenue
collection (taxation) first, with security being a distant second.
The US has a right to be concerned.

Richard

[James Robinson]

Rich wrote:
>
> In my experience Canada Customs/Immigration is focused entirely
> on revenue collection (taxation) first, with security being a
> distant second. The US has a right to be concerned.

And just what terrorists should the Canadians be looking for coming
across the border from the US? Shouldn't the US policing authorities
have already found them before the get to the border?

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, (Rich) said:
>We just moved from the US to Canada last week and I can tell you first

>it was more than than 10K they would collect some tax). In my
>experience Canada Customs/Immigration is focused entirely on revenue
>collection (taxation) first, with security being a distant second.

You should know that Canada Customs has a "work-to-rule" campaign going on
right now because they think they should be paid more since their focus
has changed in the last couple of years from revenue collection to
security.

I cross the border twice a month, usually by car, and I can tell you that
Canadian Customs and US Customs both have their more thorough days and
less thorough days. You just hit a less thorough day.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"The government turns every contingency into an excuse for enhancing power
in itself" -John Adams

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, (Robert M. Gary) said:
>anyone, regardless of their terrorist history. He also said the U.S.
>has offered to train the Canadian boarder patrol but they did not
>accept.

Canada has offered to train US Air Force pilots to stop dropping bombs on
friendlies, but they did not accept either.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
The WWW is exciting because Microsoft doesn't own it, and therefore,
there's a tremendous amount of innovation happening.
-- Steve Jobs

[Robert M. Gary]

(Rich) wrote in message >...
> We just moved from the US to Canada last week and I can tell you first


If you don't mind me asking, why would you move to Canada? I hear the
taxes are really high. I was reading the other day that they want to
enact a mandatory child care tax. You pay it whether you have kids or
not, whether your wife is home with the kids or not. It pays for a
socialized child care. They were saying some house wives will have to
go out and find jobs in order to pay this new child care tax.

-Robert

[Kyler Laird]

(Robert M. Gary) writes:

>> We just moved from the US to Canada last week and I can tell you first

>If you don't mind me asking, why would you move to Canada?

I also give it ongoing consideration.

>I hear the
>taxes are really high.

They're socialists. What do you expect? At least they come right out
and say it instead of pretending to be something else (as the US does).

>I was reading the other day that they want to
>enact a mandatory child care tax. You pay it whether you have kids or
>not, whether your wife is home with the kids or not. It pays for a
>socialized child care. They were saying some house wives will have to
>go out and find jobs in order to pay this new child care tax.

Gosh, that sounds a lot like taxes in the US. A sizeable chunk of my
income goes toward educating (or at least testing) children and I don't
have any.

Strangely enough (and to get back on topic), aviation is one of the big
sticking points for me moving to Canada. I understand that it's alive
and well in Canada and was an integral part of opening the vast
wilderness, but I really hate the way some of it appears to be run.

(I have *no* experience with flying in Canada but I'm likely to get
some later this year when I take my wife to some ICAO conferences.
Perhaps I'll change my mind.)

--kyler

[Robert M. Gary]

Kyler Laird > wrote in message >...
> Gosh, that sounds a lot like taxes in the US. A sizeable chunk of my
> income goes toward educating (or at least testing) children and I don't
> have any.

The capitalist argument here is that investing in the education of
children is a capitol investment for the nation as a whole. The result
will be doctors and scientists for the future. I.e. it benefits
everyone, not just those with kids.
However, Canada sending housewives out to work in order to pay for the
child care of other kids doesn't seem to have transient benefits in
the same way.
(Sorry, didn't mean to be too MBA here).


> Strangely enough (and to get back on topic), aviation is one of the big
> sticking points for me moving to Canada. I understand that it's alive
> and well in Canada and was an integral part of opening the vast
> wilderness, but I really hate the way some of it appears to be run.

Yes, but so in Alaska. Canada values aviation because it needs it. The
lower 48 need it but has a hard time understanding that need.

-Robert