Looking for Transciever suggestions

[Lockrdg]

Having experienced and successfully survived my first complete electrical
failure, hence no radios (at night mind you), I am looking for suggestions as
to which hand-held transcievers I might looking into buying.

All suggestions are welcome...

Thanks in advance.

[zatatime]

On 03 Jul 2004 01:46:42 GMT, (Lockrdg) wrote:

>Having experienced and successfully survived my first complete electrical
>failure, hence no radios (at night mind you), I am looking for suggestions as
>to which hand-held transcievers I might looking into buying.
>
>All suggestions are welcome...
>
>Thanks in advance.

I'd recommend the AvTek battery backup. Google for AvTek and you
should get his site, or look in the Aircraft Spruce catalog. It
guarantees an additional 40 - 60 minutes of electrical use and is very
small.

I have it and hope I never need it, but know I've got something I may
not be able to live without.

I also have the iCom handheld to answer your question directly.

HTH.
z

[EDR]

In article >, Lockrdg
> wrote:

> Having experienced and successfully survived my first complete electrical
> failure, hence no radios (at night mind you), I am looking for suggestions as
> to which hand-held transcievers I might looking into buying.

The manufacturing trend is toward miniturization.
€*Unless you have child size fingers, I recommend the older, slightly
larger size units. One finger=one button.
€ Having said that, you can download the instruction manuals for most
of the popular aviation handhelds (ICOM, Yasau). Compare features and
familiarize yourself with the steps necessary to program the
frequencies you will use and other features offered.
€ Compare what is included in the price.
€*Compare the capacity of the included battery.
€*Power output will be expressed in two way, peak and carrier.
Compare apples to apples on these measurements.
€*Determine if this spec is for the included battery pack or attached
to a 12Vdc source.
€*The instruction manual should give the battery capacity (expressed in
mAHr) and the talk/listen time for that battery pack.
€*You will want to purchase an alkaline battery pack as a backup for
when you cannot recharge or if you forgot to recharge.
€ Ask about the antenna connector. Is a standard BNC or some other type
that requires a BNC-adaptor.
€ Look at the display. Is the display large enough to read when 18-24
inches from your eyes?
€Is the keyboard backlit?
Don't be in a rush to purchase before you have an opportunity to try it
out. If you know someone with a unit you are interested in, ask to
borrow it for flight or trip. They are great for obtaining clearances
prior to engine start, especially when there are departure delays,
calling for the fuel truck from the ramp, etc.
The new units have NOAA Weather frequencies built in, so you can get
the latest severe weather wherever you are.

[Peter Gottlieb]

"Lockrdg" > wrote in message
...
> I am looking for suggestions as
> to which hand-held transcievers I might looking into buying.
>

I have the older Icom IC-A22 but I have user (or rather tried to use) the
VOR feature on it and consider it nearly useless for serious usage. If I
were to buy one today I would probably go for one of the smaller/lighter
Vertex units.

I have tried a bunch of different ones (old and new Icom, Yaesu, Vertex and
an old King) and to a first order approximation they have similar
sensitivity and power output. I did try making an entire flight (ground,
tower, then approach control, tower and finally ground) using the Icom and
it went completely smoothly with no one saying I was difficult to read etc.
Key: make sure to get and use the headset adapter. For my Icom I also got
the alkaline battery pack so if the NiCds go dead I have a backup which has
a very long shelf life. You can also buy NiMH packs now for them for about
the same price it would cost you to get new cells for an old pack.

While it is possible to program these units ahead of time I find it easier
to just enter the frequency on the keypad or it is really rough up there to
use the knob to change frequency (slowly, though).

[john smith]

Peter Gottlieb wrote:
> "Lockrdg" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I am looking for suggestions as
>>to which hand-held transcievers I might looking into buying.
>>
>
>
> I have the older Icom IC-A22 but I have user (or rather tried to use) the
> VOR feature on it and consider it nearly useless for serious usage.

VOR's emit horizontally polarized signals, so you place the radio with
the antenna level with the horizon.
Comm signals are vertically polarized, so you hold the radio straight up
and down.
If you talk to FSS on a VOR frequency, you hold it vertically.
If you want to navigate with a VOR frequency, you hold it horizontally.

[Morgans]

"Lockrdg" > wrote in message
...
> Having experienced and successfully survived my first complete electrical
> failure, hence no radios (at night mind you), I am looking for suggestions
as
> to which hand-held transcievers I might looking into buying.
>
> All suggestions are welcome...
>
> Thanks in advance.

Is that all you're going to tell us? C'mon, out with it! <g>
--
Jim in NC


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[Peter Gottlieb]

"john smith" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> VOR's emit horizontally polarized signals, so you place the radio with
> the antenna level with the horizon.
> Comm signals are vertically polarized, so you hold the radio straight up
> and down.
> If you talk to FSS on a VOR frequency, you hold it vertically.
> If you want to navigate with a VOR frequency, you hold it horizontally.
>

Yes, I know all that. Even held horizontally and oriented for maximum
reception to a VOR it works marginally.

And when you are busy flying it is sure inconvenient to be moving that thing
around. Paying more attention to the radio than flying the plane is a
recipe for disaster.

[Cub Driver]

The small Vertex, formerly Yaseu. I have one as my only radio and like
it fine. The rechargable battery is a big plus for me.

Earlier I had a Sporty's and didn't care for it. It ate batteries and
was harder to use than the Yaseu.



On 03 Jul 2004 01:46:42 GMT, (Lockrdg) wrote:

>Having experienced and successfully survived my first complete electrical
>failure, hence no radios (at night mind you), I am looking for suggestions as
>to which hand-held transcievers I might looking into buying.
>
>All suggestions are welcome...
>
>Thanks in advance.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[Viperdoc]

The important thing isn't so much the radio as the antenna. The rubber duck
simply won't work as well as hooking the handheld directly into your
comm/nav antenna.

Most avionics shops can install a small jack where you can plug your
handheld that will utilize the plane's antennas. The range and clarity
difference is dramatic. You can then also plug your headset into the
handheld and work directly through the portable.

The comm portion works great, but I haven't tried this with the nav.

[Thomas Borchert]

Edr,

> The manufacturing trend is toward miniturization.
> €*Unless you have child size fingers, I recommend the older, slightly
> larger size units. One finger=one button.
>

Check again: It's the units getting smaller, not the keys on them
(mostly).

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Thomas Borchert]

Lockrdg,

Yaesu/Vertex and Icom are the main contenders, I would say. Rather than
getting a VOR-NAV function built-in, I'd og for a separate handheld GPS

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Jay Smith]

Thomas Borchert wrote:
> Lockrdg,
>
> Yaesu/Vertex and Icom are the main contenders, I would say. Rather than
> getting a VOR-NAV function built-in, I'd og for a separate handheld GPS

Except that here in the USA, it is sometimes necessary to talk to FSS on
a comm frequency and listen on the VOR frequency. This is referred to
as working splits. The ICOM has this capability included using the
function button to select it. The receiver is tuned to the VOR frequency
to listen and when you depress the PTT, it switches to the COMM
frequency to transmit. Release the PTT and it switches back to the VOR
frequency.

[Jim Weir]

When was the last time you did this for real?

Jim


Jay Smith >
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:


->Except that here in the USA, it is sometimes necessary to talk to FSS on
-> a comm frequency and listen on the VOR frequency.



Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Thomas Borchert]

Jay,

> Except that here in the USA, it is sometimes necessary to talk to FSS on
> a comm frequency and listen on the VOR frequency.
>

Well, yeah, I guess that stuff is still around in some places. Would you
use it in an emergency?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[COUGARNFW]

Yaesu/Vertex and Icom

I agree with Jim re whether one can ever contact a ground station anymore using
the split frequency...nobody at home??

With respect to the handhelds, you have received some good information, the
external antenna being by far the best. When using an external antenna, it
seems the radio was never told that it should shun horizontally oriented
signals and works just fine on both com and nav. The distances it will receive
and send are amazing.

Jim just had a string about the little box or antenna bypass.

Ask again about the nav function on the Yaesu/Vertex. A friend purchased a
unit 3? months ago and all works well, great features, nice lighting, but the
nav has yet to work. The unit has been more in the shop at the main
Yaesu/Vertex plant in LA than in his hands.

A couple nights ago, after he got it back the third? time, we did a comparison
against an Icom 21 and a Narco 830 (no Narco is recommended for anything...I
have the 830) and both of them performed better than the Yaesu/Vertex.

He has had to chase the radio, with no feedback by Yaesu/Vertex and they must
be goaded for each transaction/followup. That was not always true,and one
wonders if it is because of the Vertex change.

External antenna, however it is done

Plug-in for 12 V power so as to not deplete the battery. (What Icom never
tells you...some of their portables WILL NOT work when plugged into 12V, just
the opposite of what one wants in time of need..ask the question and test each
one that way)

The headset adapter which includes provisons for a pust to talk switch or a
switch itself.

Good luck and come back and tell us what you decide. It helps others.

Neal

[Lockrdg]

Hmmm...

Took off at night on a heading going directly over the ocean. When I hit the
gear up switch, I lost all power to the panel. I circled back, switched off all
electrical except the master and got a flicker of power in the panel but not
enough to work the radio's. I was hoping the generator ('62 Comanche) would
charge up the battery, but when I looked at the amp-meter, the needle was at
zero. Switched the transponder to 7700 (in case I got enought of a charge) and
occasionally tried the radio (and clicked SOS with the PTT), but it when it
became evident that the generator was gone, I lowered the gear manually, swung
by the tower, thought I got a light and came back around to land. Held it off
the runway for as long as I could, but guess the gear hadn't locked and down I
went. 600' later (according to the airport police) I came to a stop, my
passenger and I hopped out, and that, gentlemen, was that.

This happened last Friday night, so there is still no information as to what
went on with the electrical, but given the amp-meter reading 0 with no draw,
it's a pretty good guess that the genny went out. As far as the gear not
locking, with everything going on, it's possible that I hadn't slowed down
enough before releasing the gear and therefore they couldn't lock, though it
would have been nice if they had once I got down to approch speed :-)

Thanks for ALL your suggestions - particularly the portable power supply - that
would have saved the day.

All the best - Fly safe...

[Morgans]

"Lockrdg" > wrote in message
...
> Hmmm...
>
I lost all power to the panel.

when it
> became evident that the generator was gone, I lowered the gear manually,
swung
> by the tower, thought I got a light and came back around to land. Held it
off
> the runway for as long as I could, but guess the gear hadn't locked and
down I
> went. 600' later (according to the airport police) I came to a stop, my
> passenger and I hopped out, and that, gentlemen, was that.
>
****************************
Sorry to hear about the gear up, but good to hear you made a great landing.
You do get to use the equipment again, right? <g>\

Most importantly, no one got hurt.

How bad is the plane?
--
Jim in NC


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[tony roberts]

Icom have an awesome reputation, and because of the current competition
their Navcom (A23) is only $50.00 more than their Com (A5)
so although the Comm isn't worth the original upcharge, it's cerainly
worth the extra $50.00.
BUT - go to a third party vendor and buy the AA battery back. Icom only
comes with a rechargeable battery pack - not much use if you are sitting
halfway up a mountain waiting to be rescued - but if you have the pack,
plus a decent supply of AA batteries, you now have yourself a good
emergency radio - in addition to it's everyday uses.

Tony

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Almost Instrument :)
Cessna 172H C-GICE



In article >,
(Lockrdg) wrote:

> Having experienced and successfully survived my first complete electrical
> failure, hence no radios (at night mind you), I am looking for suggestions as
> to which hand-held transcievers I might looking into buying.
>
> All suggestions are welcome...
>
> Thanks in advance.

[Lockrdg]

>You do get to use the equipment again, right? <g>\
>
>Most importantly, no one got hurt.
>
> How bad is the plane?

Yes - when it is fixed (I'm a partner)

True - I had a passenger who is very happy to be on the ground.

Not too bad. The expected bent prop and potential engine/gear work, and of
course, the much thinner belly of the plane. What everyone remarked (fire and
police) was how little debris there was off the plane. I would like to believe
that it was my skill, though more likely luck, but I set the sucker down
straight as an arrow and nestled it down directly on the middle of the
fuselage. The bottom beacon was untouched.

Will be quite a while before it flies again though. Guess I should just
concentrate on building my multi time <g>.

[Cub Driver]

On 03 Jul 2004 20:37:33 GMT, (COUGARNFW) wrote:

>The headset adapter which includes provisons for a pust to talk switch or a
>switch itself.

I found the Yaseu essentially unusable until I got a PTT, from
Sporty's. It velcro's onto the top of the control stick, just like
Captain Midnight!

Might be a bear, though, setting this up while you have an electrical
emergency tothink about. Me, I do it on the ground before getting into
the plane, since the radio is my only comm.

I use the rubber ducky antenna. These are rental planes, and neither
has an outside antenna. I seldom use delta airspace, however. And I
always behave as if I were NORDO. I am reasonably sure however that I
am always heard in the pattern, not so sure that I am heard five or
even three miles out. As for hearing, I can hear Wiscasset in the
north and Marshfield on the south, a radius of 50 NM, from 2900 feet.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[Peter Gottlieb]

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
>
> I use the rubber ducky antenna. These are rental planes, and neither
> has an outside antenna. I seldom use delta airspace, however. And I
> always behave as if I were NORDO. I am reasonably sure however that I
> am always heard in the pattern, not so sure that I am heard five or
> even three miles out.

In my experiment using the Icom with it's helical rubber "ducky" antenna I
contacted NY Approach 15 miles north of HPN (I was at 3000 and I believe
they are down in Long Island somewhere) then was handed off to HPN tower at
about 10 miles out and everything went smoothly. I used the Icom PTT button
and held the radio with the antenna vertical.

[john smith]

Jim Weir wrote:
> When was the last time you did this for real?

Had to do it to pick up an IFR clearance while on the ground last year.

[John Smith]

I am also looking for a portable, Sporty's seems to have some of the
best prices right now, especially for the Icom A23 @ $369
The Vertex 210 appears to have most of the A23's features, but is a
lot less expensive ($279). Why?

Also, with the A23, is a separate PTT necessary to use the headset
adapter? I'm not really clear how the headset adapter works with my
headset (DC H10-13.4) and the A23.

Thanks,
Tom



On 03 Jul 2004 01:46:42 GMT, (Lockrdg) wrote:

>Having experienced and successfully survived my first complete electrical
>failure, hence no radios (at night mind you), I am looking for suggestions as
>to which hand-held transcievers I might looking into buying.
>
>All suggestions are welcome...
>
>Thanks in advance.

[Cub Driver]

On 6 Jul 2004 23:59:54 -0500, John Smith > wrote:

>Also, with the A23, is a separate PTT necessary to use the headset
>adapter? I'm not really clear how the headset adapter works with my
>headset (DC H10-13.4) and the A23.

It was with my Yaseu (Vertex).

I think.

It's such a convenience, and I've used it for three years now, that I
really can't remember. Previously, I tried used the radio as a
handheld, which meant putting the engine to idle every time. Even then
it didn't work worth a damn.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[Thomas Borchert]

John,

> The Vertex 210 appears to have most of the A23's features, but is a
> lot less expensive ($279). Why?
>

Because someone wants to make a business through volume, not price?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[RM]

John Smith > wrote in message >...
> I am also looking for a portable, Sporty's seems to have some of the
> best prices right now, especially for the Icom A23 @ $369
> The Vertex 210 appears to have most of the A23's features, but is a
> lot less expensive ($279). Why?

Because it's a free market and that's what they think they can get for
it.

My own experience with Yaesu is that performance leaves a lot to be
desired. I've found that a Sporty's even with a rubber ducky works
nearly as well as a panel-mount nav and Yaesu would only pick up a
VOR when it was close enough that I could hit it by throwing the
Yaesu at it. Due to the miserable nav performance, I sent the Yaesu
back to the manufacturer and had them check and adjust it. Upon its
return, I found it worked not the slightest bit better. When it finally
disappeared at an air show, I was more relieved than angry and replaced
it with an Icom A-5.

>
> Also, with the A23, is a separate PTT necessary to use the headset
> adapter? I'm not really clear how the headset adapter works with my
> headset (DC H10-13.4) and the A23.
>

No external switch is needed. It's just a convenience to have a PTT on the
yoke.

[PaulH]

For the occasion when all the electrons die at once, I have 2
portables.

I bought the new ICOM sport model transceiver (small size, light
weight). I keep alkaline batteries in it because they retain a charge
better than rechargeables and I need it only for emergencies. I also
have an antenna loop in my Com2 under the panel so that I can
disconnect the panel receiver and connect the Icom to the external
antenna.

For navigation I have a Garmin Pilot GPS III that can sit on the
glareshield and runs 8-10 hours on 4 AA alkalines.

[Malcolm Teas]

(Lockrdg) wrote in message >...
> Having experienced and successfully survived my first complete electrical
> failure, hence no radios (at night mind you), I am looking for suggestions as
> to which hand-held transcievers I might looking into buying.
>
> All suggestions are welcome...

I bought the Vertex Standard VXA-700. It's got a rechargable LiON
battery, so the charge lasts long. It handles COM, VOR, FM broadcast,
2 meter, and in the US: weather radio. The buttons are small, but
workable and I don't have child-sized fingers. The unit's compact
too, so it's easy to carry it. Little good in having an emergency
radio if it's awkward to carry.

And, it's submersible up to 3 feet, in case you fly seaplanes. <grin>
Or, more likely, live in a very rainy area.

One downside is that the antenna jack and headset jack are
non-standard. Be sure to buy the headset adapter. If you have an
external antenna cable in your plane, buy the antenna jack adapter
too.

I was going to defer my radio puchase until I started instrument
training, but when the Wash DC ADIZ went into effect I went ahead and
bought it. (I fly in the ADIZ.) A little while later it paid for
itself when an intermittent connection in a rental plane failed during
my second student cross-country.

I can attest that the ducky antenna isn't as effective - Potomac
Approach couldn't hear my below around 1800 feet or so in one area
close to home. But I was able to get home with it. Never rented that
plane again. (FBO maintenance said there was nothing wrong.)

I use it routinely now to get ASOS and contact clearance, as well as
just listening to what's going on in general.

-Malcolm Teas

[Robert M. Gary]

Last time I opened a VFR flight plan.

Jim Weir > wrote in message >...
> When was the last time you did this for real?
>
> ->Except that here in the USA, it is sometimes necessary to talk to FSS on
> -> a comm frequency and listen on the VOR frequency.
>

[Robert M. Gary]

tony roberts > wrote in message news:<nospam-69B6F8.23552803072004@shawnews>...
> BUT - go to a third party vendor and buy the AA battery back. Icom only
> comes with a rechargeable battery pack - not much use if you are sitting
> halfway up a mountain waiting to be rescued - but if you have the pack,
> plus a decent supply of AA batteries, you now have yourself a good
> emergency radio - in addition to it's everyday uses.

The rechargable is perfect for the daily J-3 Cub flyer who uses it as
his primary radio (that's the reason I bought mine) but the AA battery
pack is best for the emergency radio (why I use it now).

[John Smith]

Thanks for the tips everyone. I'm going to go ahead and get the Icom.
The A5 looks like a deal, but when you add in the headset adapter,
it's almost the same price, plus you get the (limited) nav capability
in the A23. A23 it is...




On 7 Jul 2004 06:45:17 -0700, (RM) wrote:

>John Smith > wrote in message >...
>> I am also looking for a portable, Sporty's seems to have some of the
>> best prices right now, especially for the Icom A23 @ $369
>> The Vertex 210 appears to have most of the A23's features, but is a
>> lot less expensive ($279). Why?
>
>Because it's a free market and that's what they think they can get for
>it.
>
>My own experience with Yaesu is that performance leaves a lot to be
>desired. I've found that a Sporty's even with a rubber ducky works
>nearly as well as a panel-mount nav and Yaesu would only pick up a
>VOR when it was close enough that I could hit it by throwing the
>Yaesu at it. Due to the miserable nav performance, I sent the Yaesu
>back to the manufacturer and had them check and adjust it. Upon its
>return, I found it worked not the slightest bit better. When it finally
>disappeared at an air show, I was more relieved than angry and replaced
>it with an Icom A-5.
>
>>
>> Also, with the A23, is a separate PTT necessary to use the headset
>> adapter? I'm not really clear how the headset adapter works with my
>> headset (DC H10-13.4) and the A23.
>>
>
>No external switch is needed. It's just a convenience to have a PTT on the
>yoke.

[Cub Driver]

On 7 Jul 2004 06:45:17 -0700, (RM) wrote:

>My own experience with Yaesu is that performance leaves a lot to be
>desired. I've found that a Sporty's even with a rubber ducky works
>nearly as well as a panel-mount nav and Yaesu would only pick up a
>VOR when it was close enough that I could hit it by throwing the
>Yaesu at it.

I had quite the opposite experience. I was never happy with the
Sporty's handheld, and I love the Yaseu.

The Sporty's had the nav feature; I only used it the one time, to see
if it worked (it did). It seemed pointless to me, when I had eyeballs
and the GPS, and I found it distracting in flight. So when I ditched
the Sporty's, I deliberately looked at radios that were comm only. I
bought the Yaseu instead of the Icom because it was a deal cheaper.
It's been as staunch and effective as my Davey Clark headset.

As with my Garmin, I don't find it particularly intuitive, and I use
them most every week. Perhaps it's just me. (The Sporty's wasn't any
better, and it was hard to see the display in bright light, which is
what I get most of the time when I am flying.)


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[Cub Driver]

On 7 Jul 2004 08:58:26 -0700, (Malcolm Teas) wrote:

>One downside is that the antenna jack and headset jack are
>non-standard. Be sure to buy the headset adapter.

The same was true of the Yaseu (the predecessor company). It's not a
problem with the headset, since the lashup stays with the radio. But
the antenna adapter (I had to search on the internet to find one) is a
tiny thing and easy to misplace. I keep it in a zip-lock bag against
the day when the airport has another Cub with an external antenna.

(It worked a charm the one time I had the opportunity to use it. Then
they sold the Cub down the river, or rather Down East. The engine was
making metal. Too bad; it was a pretty plane and I fell in love with
it on first flight.)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org