things to carry

[Gary Drescher]

A pilot crashed on a NH mountain in fog yesterday. He survived, but his
17-year-old son did not. Rescuers were able to find him in part because he
was blowing a whistle. I just added one to my flight bag.
(http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3AA12BB8)

--Gary

[C J Campbell]

"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
news:hLwGc.16623$JR4.7695@attbi_s54...
> A pilot crashed on a NH mountain in fog yesterday. He survived, but his
> 17-year-old son did not. Rescuers were able to find him in part because he
> was blowing a whistle. I just added one to my flight bag.

The whistle is a vital part of survival gear. Survival experts recommend
that you wear it around your neck, along with your pocket knife and button
compass. There are some people that will not leave the house without these
things (like most people, I am not one of them so this may be a case of "do
what I say, not what I do").

We have friends who have given each of their family members distinctive
whistles and they use their whistles to locate each other in stores and
parking lots. They were even able to keep track of each other at Disneyland
last year.

[Bob Gardner]

I hope you got a rescue whistle, not a "police" whistle with a pea. Rescue
whistles can be heard for half a mile and are available at suppliers of
outdoor equipment.

Bob Gardner

"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
news:hLwGc.16623$JR4.7695@attbi_s54...
> A pilot crashed on a NH mountain in fog yesterday. He survived, but his
> 17-year-old son did not. Rescuers were able to find him in part because he
> was blowing a whistle. I just added one to my flight bag.
> (http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3AA12BB8)
>
> --Gary
>
>

[Rosspilot]

>We have friends who have given each of their family members distinctive
>whistles and they use their whistles to locate each other in stores and
>parking lots. They were even able to keep track of each other at Disneyland
>last year.


We use cellphones for that :-)
www.Rosspilot.com

[Gary Drescher]

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
...
> I hope you got a rescue whistle, not a "police" whistle with a pea. Rescue
> whistles can be heard for half a mile and are available at suppliers of
> outdoor equipment.

Thanks, I'll get one.

--Gary

[EDR]

In article <hLwGc.16623$JR4.7695@attbi_s54>, Gary Drescher
> wrote:

> A pilot crashed on a NH mountain in fog yesterday. He survived, but his
> 17-year-old son did not. Rescuers were able to find him in part because he
> was blowing a whistle. I just added one to my flight bag.
> (http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3AA12BB8)

1. First-aid kit
2. Compass and know how to use it
3. Map(s) of the area where you will be
4. Small functional pocket knife
5. Flashlight with good batteries (extras & bulb)
6. Raingear; parka and pants
7. Sunscreen
8. Extra food and water
9. Fire kit, waterproof container of matches, candle, etc.
10. Whistle

[Tony Cox]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
> news:hLwGc.16623$JR4.7695@attbi_s54...
> > A pilot crashed on a NH mountain in fog yesterday. He survived, but his
> > 17-year-old son did not. Rescuers were able to find him in part because
he
> > was blowing a whistle. I just added one to my flight bag.
>
> The whistle is a vital part of survival gear. Survival experts recommend
> that you wear it around your neck, along with your pocket knife and button
> compass. There are some people that will not leave the house without these
> things (like most people, I am not one of them so this may be a case of
"do
> what I say, not what I do").
>
> We have friends who have given each of their family members distinctive
> whistles and they use their whistles to locate each other in stores and
> parking lots. They were even able to keep track of each other at
Disneyland
> last year.

Works well in theatres and cinemas too ;-)

I keep my plane ignition key on a whistle key fob. That way it's
easy to remember where it is if it ever becomes necessary to use
it.

[Jonathan]

EDR wrote:

> In article <hLwGc.16623$JR4.7695@attbi_s54>, Gary Drescher
> > wrote:
>
>
>>A pilot crashed on a NH mountain in fog yesterday. He survived, but his
>>17-year-old son did not. Rescuers were able to find him in part because he
>>was blowing a whistle. I just added one to my flight bag.
>>(http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3AA12BB8)
>
>
> 1. First-aid kit
> 2. Compass and know how to use it
> 3. Map(s) of the area where you will be
> 4. Small functional pocket knife
> 5. Flashlight with good batteries (extras & bulb)
> 6. Raingear; parka and pants
> 7. Sunscreen
> 8. Extra food and water
> 9. Fire kit, waterproof container of matches, candle, etc.
> 10. Whistle
Nice list! I will be adding a few things to my flight bag.

--
Jonathan,

www.virtual-hangar.com

[Brian C.]

Add a signal mirror too. Very useful

[Skipper]

good site at www.bestglide.com for stuff like this

disclaimer - a friend of mine runs it


"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
news:hLwGc.16623$JR4.7695@attbi_s54...
> A pilot crashed on a NH mountain in fog yesterday. He survived, but his
> 17-year-old son did not. Rescuers were able to find him in part because he
> was blowing a whistle. I just added one to my flight bag.
> (http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3AA12BB8)
>
> --Gary
>
>

[Rosspilot]

Another interesting item I added to my survival kit is a small handcranking
mini-generator that will re-charge a cellphone. It fits in the palm of one
hand, and comes with adaptors for every major cellular phone manufacturer.

http://www.skymall.com/webapp/skystore?process=prodDisplay&action=&pid=102
103488&catId=

I can definitely see where this could be a life-saver.

www.Rosspilot.com

[Blanche]

I carry all that stuff in the knapsack (always within arm's reach)
but also a small fanny pack with

cell phone and spare battery
matches and a couple candles
leatherman
chapstick
whistle on lanyard
spare keys (house, car & airplane)

Don't laugh about the keys! I've gotten stuck out of town without
the house keys. Managed to get home but all the keys and the car
were at the hangar more than 30 miles away and no neighbors home.

Once is all it takes.

[Brian Burger]

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, Jonathan wrote:

> EDR wrote:
>
> > In article <hLwGc.16623$JR4.7695@attbi_s54>, Gary Drescher
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>A pilot crashed on a NH mountain in fog yesterday. He survived, but his
> >>17-year-old son did not. Rescuers were able to find him in part because he
> >>was blowing a whistle. I just added one to my flight bag.
> >>(http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3AA12BB8)
> >
> > 1. First-aid kit
> > 2. Compass and know how to use it
> > 3. Map(s) of the area where you will be
> > 4. Small functional pocket knife
> > 5. Flashlight with good batteries (extras & bulb)
> > 6. Raingear; parka and pants
> > 7. Sunscreen
> > 8. Extra food and water
> > 9. Fire kit, waterproof container of matches, candle, etc.
> > 10. Whistle
> Nice list! I will be adding a few things to my flight bag.

For lots more information on survival gear, check out
http://www.equipped.com/ - Equipped to Survive Foundation.

Masses of good information - worth spending a few hours there. Doug Ritter
(who runs ETS) is a private pilot, too, so there's lots of
aviation-oriented stuff.

Brian.

[Brian Burger]

Related to the 'what survival equipment do you carry' questions:

How many people here have any sort of First Aid/CPR training, or have
considered getting some?

If you've had training, are you legally & practically current in it? A CPR
ticket is legally valid for three years - practical currency, as always,
is another matter!

I did a Red Cross Standard First Aid & CPR 'C' course in November 2003;
I've skimmed through my textbook & class-notes a few times since, most
recently when I burnt my ankle with v. hot tea!

There's a St. John's Ambulance Wilderness First Aid course here in town
this fall that I'm seriously considering signing up for, too. Outside of
accidents in the hanger, pilots could well face a wilderness first aid
situation after a forced landing, where 'make the victim comfortable then
call 911' just isn't an option.

Compared to the costs of actually flying, these are inexpensive courses;
the Red Cross Standard First Aid was $80 Cdn (~$60 USD); the Wilderness
one is $180 Cdn (~$140 USD).

So, what First Aid training do people have?

Brian.

--

[Cub Driver]

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 16:28:28 GMT, EDR > wrote:

> 5. Flashlight with good batteries (extras & bulb)

A wise hiker once pointed out that there is nothing worth seeing in
the New Hampshire mountains at night--and if there is, you're better
off not seeing it.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[Cub Driver]

11. Mosquito repellent!

(In fact, I don't carry several of the items you mention, but I sure
carry mosquito repellent.)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[Kees Mies]

> We have friends who have given each of their family members distinctive
> whistles and they use their whistles to locate each other in stores and
> parking lots. They were even able to keep track of each other at Disneyland
> last year.

Thanks for the tip.
Next time I go to Disneyland I take some whistles with me.
Just to see how shows up when I blow them, sounds like fun.

-Kees.

[Nathan Gilliatt]

In article .ca>,
Brian Burger > wrote:

> So, what First Aid training do people have?

CPR a few years back, first aid associated with my lifeguard training a
*long* time ago.

I've been considering taking the Red Cross First Responder class. It's
more involved than their 1- or 2-day first aid/CPR classes, and it
includes all of the CPR/AED segments.

I did some looking for Wilderness Medicine classes for my Dad a while
back and found these links:

National Safety Council
http://www.nsc.org/trainemerg/coursepages/wildfa.cfm

Wilderness Safety Council
http://www.wfa.net/

Wilderness Medical Society
http://www.wms.org/
http://www.wemjournal.org/

On a related note, Flying magazine had an "I learned about flying from
that" piece by a former Coast Guard crewman discussing the importance of
flares, mirrors, etc. when you hope to be found at sea. Some good points
for being rescued wherever you land. I'm not sure which issue it was in,
but it was recent.

- Nathan

[Jay Honeck]

> We have friends who have given each of their family members distinctive
> whistles and they use their whistles to locate each other in stores and
> parking lots. They were even able to keep track of each other at
Disneyland
> last year.

???

You're kidding, right?

I can't imagine anything more rude, or annoying.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[C J Campbell]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:TATGc.40987$Oq2.35143@attbi_s52...
> > We have friends who have given each of their family members distinctive
> > whistles and they use their whistles to locate each other in stores and
> > parking lots. They were even able to keep track of each other at
> Disneyland
> > last year.
>
> ???
>
> You're kidding, right?
>
> I can't imagine anything more rude, or annoying.

I don't know. I have never been around them in public places, but that is
what they say they do. They seem to think it is less rude than shouting for
each other.

Should I recommend that they stay at Alexis Park Inn? :-)

[Stealth Pilot]

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 21:45:26 -0700, Brian Burger >
wrote:

>Related to the 'what survival equipment do you carry' questions:
>
>How many people here have any sort of First Aid/CPR training, or have
>considered getting some?
>
>If you've had training, are you legally & practically current in it? A CPR
>ticket is legally valid for three years - practical currency, as always,
>is another matter!
>
>I did a Red Cross Standard First Aid & CPR 'C' course in November 2003;
>I've skimmed through my textbook & class-notes a few times since, most
>recently when I burnt my ankle with v. hot tea!
>
>There's a St. John's Ambulance Wilderness First Aid course here in town
>this fall that I'm seriously considering signing up for, too. Outside of
>accidents in the hanger, pilots could well face a wilderness first aid
>situation after a forced landing, where 'make the victim comfortable then
>call 911' just isn't an option.
>
>Compared to the costs of actually flying, these are inexpensive courses;
>the Red Cross Standard First Aid was $80 Cdn (~$60 USD); the Wilderness
>one is $180 Cdn (~$140 USD).
>
>So, what First Aid training do people have?
>
>Brian.

dont go overboard on the training most of it is quite simple.

1. if you think you are going to prang you have the wrong attitude to
flying and maintenance. your certified engine has no reason not to
make 2000 hours trouble free if the maintenance is sound. no reason at
all. prevention is far better than experience when it comes to
accidents.

2. first aid is quite simple for 99% of cases.

if a person is on their way out of life firstly their breathing stops
or their airway gets obstructed. 300 seconds later (roughly) their
heart runs out of oxygen and stops.

the heart never stops while they are breathing.

the priority for first aid is to keep the airway clear and
unobstructed.
if some one is out of it, roll them on their side, gently move the
head back and pull their jaw up to keep the trachea open.
make sure they havent swallowed their tongue.
they will be quite comfortable in that position for a few hours.

all of the rest of the mickey mouse training is really devoted to half
of the remaining 1% of situations and can be looked at in that light
quite competently.

3. gentle pressure to the area will stop most bleeding

4. it helps the thinking considerably if you dont panic.

there you go. that's the crux of a 2 day $120 dollar first aid course.
just as an aid to getting the priorities right, in a year working in a
busy hospital with really frail, injured and sick people I've never
needed to give first aid ever. in your flying you'll be dealing with
healthy people.

Stealth Pilot

[Peter Duniho]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:TATGc.40987$Oq2.35143@attbi_s52...
> > We have friends who have given each of their family members distinctive
> > whistles and they use their whistles to locate each other in stores and
> > parking lots.
>
> [...]
> I can't imagine anything more rude, or annoying.

Nothing? Nothing at all?

Gee...I'd say that shows a considerable lack of imagination. :)

(I do agree that using whistles in a public place sure seems pretty rude and
annoying to me though...sure would hate to be the person standing near one
of those folks when they decide they need to make contact. And here I
thought people yelling into their cell phones or FRS radios was annoying).

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 07:43:29 -0700, "C J Campbell"
> wrote:

>I don't know. I have never been around them in public places, but that is
>what they say they do. They seem to think it is less rude than shouting for
>each other.
>
>Should I recommend that they stay at Alexis Park Inn? :-)

I know people who bought a set of those tiny walkie talkies to keep
track of each other in crowded places. Seems a bit more neighborly
than blowing a whistle in a mall. Range is a couple of miles outside.

Corky Scott

[Kathy]

"Brian C." > wrote in message
.. .
> Add a signal mirror too. Very useful
>

Or a CD. An Oregon sheriff on search and rescue showed a group of us that
trick. He used an AOL advertising CD with the sides shaved off to make it
conveniently small (though still bigger than the usual signal mirror.) Easy
to use, free, and much lighter than the double-glass ones usually sold for
the purpose.

Kathy

[Rosspilot]

>He used an AOL advertising CD with the sides shaved off to make it
>conveniently small (though still bigger than the usual signal mirror.) Easy
>to use, free, and much lighter than the double-glass ones usually sold for
>the purpose.


See that? AOL *IS* good for something!

:-)



www.Rosspilot.com

[Jay Honeck]

> > I can't imagine anything more rude, or annoying.
>
> I don't know. I have never been around them in public places, but that is
> what they say they do. They seem to think it is less rude than shouting
for
> each other.
>
> Should I recommend that they stay at Alexis Park Inn? :-)

Sure, but they'll have to check their whistles in at the front desk...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[john smith]

Cub Driver wrote:
>> 5. Flashlight with good batteries (extras & bulb)

> A wise hiker once pointed out that there is nothing worth seeing in
> the New Hampshire mountains at night--and if there is, you're better
> off not seeing it.

If it is dark and your eyes are already night adapted, the last thing
you want to do is turn on a light unless it is absolutly necessary.

[john smith]

Cub Driver wrote:
> 11. Mosquito repellent!
> (In fact, I don't carry several of the items you mention, but I sure
> carry mosquito repellent.)

Dan, what works best in your neck of the woods?

[john smith]

Brian Burger wrote:
> Related to the 'what survival equipment do you carry' questions:
> How many people here have any sort of First Aid/CPR training, or have
> considered getting some?

I do.

> If you've had training, are you legally & practically current in it? A CPR
> ticket is legally valid for three years - practical currency, as always,
> is another matter!

I am an aquatics instructor and lifeguard at our community pool and rec
center. We have monthly recurrent training sessions and an annual for
the blood borne pathogens lecture, CPR, AED (automatic external
defibulator), advanced first aid, etc.

[Greg Copeland]

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 08:02:40 -0700, Bob Gardner wrote:

> I hope you got a rescue whistle, not a "police" whistle with a pea. Rescue
> whistles can be heard for half a mile and are available at suppliers of
> outdoor equipment.
>

Good to know. I didn't realize there was a distinction.

Thanks.

[Ken Reed]

> How many people here have any sort of First Aid/CPR training, or have
> considered getting some?

BLS (CPR) & ACLS (Advanced Cardiac Life Support) and instructor in both.
Often when I fly I have my anesthesia equipment with me as I fly to work
with my residents.

> If you've had training, are you legally & practically current in it?

Absolutely !

> A CPR ticket is legally valid for three years - practical currency,
> as always, is another matter!

From our studies, we have found the vast majority of dentists and their
staff (and I'm sure physicians and other health care providers too) cannot
perform reasonable (not perfect) CPR in as little as six months after
taking the course.

Also, "legally valid" is poor terminology. For a few years now the card
simply says that you have "successfully completed the curriculum" on a
particular date. I haven't taught the American Red Cross BLS courses in a
few years, but they expired after one year. The American Heart Association
courses expire after two years. Who issues a card for three years ?
--
Ken Reed
http://www.dentalzzz.com

[Cub Driver]

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 20:31:24 GMT, john smith > wrote:

>
>Dan, what works best in your neck of the woods?

100 percent DEET, when it was sold. I used to buy it from CampMor. I
don't think it's possible any longer to get it. I usually see things
like 30 percent DEET, and it seems to work just as well. Perhaps 100
percent was overkill.

The manufacturer doesn't matter. It's just perfume and delivery that
you're paying for. The CampMor bottle has been in my pocket so long
the label has rubbed off. Two ounces has lasted for years, but I don't
use it around home. Ah no, here's a spare bottle with a label: it's
actually 95 percent DEET.

CAMPMOR NEVERBITE INSECT REPELLENT. As I say, I don't think they sell
it any longer.

You do have to keep DEET off glasses frames (and lenses, if they're
plastic!).
all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[Cub Driver]

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 13:51:23 -0400,
wrote:

>I know people who bought a set of those tiny walkie talkies to keep
>track of each other in crowded places. Seems a bit more neighborly
>than blowing a whistle in a mall. Range is a couple of miles outside.

It bugs the hell out of me when I am skiing at Aspen (not that I am
always skiing at Aspen, but that is where I've seen/heard the
walkie-talkies).

The parents go to Ajax and the kiddies go to Buttermilk (or perhaps I
have that wrong, and the kiddies are bumpging the moguls on the Back
of Bell). And they talk, talk, talk. Where are you now? We're here.
Where shall we have lunch? Are you having fun?

I yearn for an AK-47.



all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[Cub Driver]

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 23:12:32 +0800, Stealth Pilot
> wrote:

>there you go. that's the crux of a 2 day $120 dollar first aid course

Except that one is likely to remember the course material, whereas an
email is in one eye and out the other. (Except for me: I have only one
usable eye.)

I think everyone should do an EMT course, though mine was so long ago
that evidently the name has changed to First Responder. I don't think
it cost very much either. It lasted a whole lot longer, something like
three months, one night a week. Very valuable.

My daughter the sailor takes these wilderness medicine courses and
finds them useful. It is the closest thing to what a sailor
encounters. I should think a pilot is in much the same boat (as it
were). The problem with EMT training is that it assume the doctor or
hospital is only half an hour away, and this is not the situation for
a boat at sea or a plane in the woods.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[Nathan Gilliatt]

In article >,
Cub Driver > wrote:

> I think everyone should do an EMT course, though mine was so long ago
> that evidently the name has changed to First Responder. I don't think
> it cost very much either. It lasted a whole lot longer, something like
> three months, one night a week. Very valuable.

From what I've seen, they're different. EMT courses are designed for
people who want EMT jobs, so they assume that you'll have the equipment
on the truck/ambulance, and they get into topics like stabilizing the
patient for transport. I haven't seen a syllabus for the Red Cross FR
course, but I think it's a more general advanced first aid course. The
target audience is broader--police, others who may be first on a scene.

If anyone has taken the Red Cross FR course and could compare it to the
other first aid courses, I'd like to know more about it.

- Nathan

[C J Campbell]

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 13:51:23 -0400,
> wrote:
>
> >I know people who bought a set of those tiny walkie talkies to keep
> >track of each other in crowded places. Seems a bit more neighborly
> >than blowing a whistle in a mall. Range is a couple of miles outside.
>
> It bugs the hell out of me when I am skiing at Aspen (not that I am
> always skiing at Aspen, but that is where I've seen/heard the
> walkie-talkies).
>
> The parents go to Ajax and the kiddies go to Buttermilk (or perhaps I
> have that wrong, and the kiddies are bumpging the moguls on the Back
> of Bell). And they talk, talk, talk. Where are you now? We're here.
> Where shall we have lunch? Are you having fun?
>
> I yearn for an AK-47.
>

Some people are easily annoyed. Would it bother you if they were standing
next to each other and talking non-stop? Or is it just walkie-talkie envy? I
suspect that this is the same problem that causes some people to explode at
the mere sight of a cell phone.

[Peter Duniho]

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
> [...]
> The parents go to Ajax and the kiddies go to Buttermilk (or perhaps I
> have that wrong, and the kiddies are bumpging the moguls on the Back
> of Bell). And they talk, talk, talk. Where are you now? We're here.
> Where shall we have lunch? Are you having fun?

Yes, but would you prefer that they contact each other using whistles
instead?

[BillC85]

>
> 1. First-aid kit
> 2. Compass and know how to use it
> 3. Map(s) of the area where you will be
> 4. Small functional pocket knife
> 5. Flashlight with good batteries (extras & bulb)
> 6. Raingear; parka and pants
> 7. Sunscreen
> 8. Extra food and water
> 9. Fire kit, waterproof container of matches, candle, etc.
> 10. Whistle

11. If you're flying over wilderness, a big ass gun.

I don't know if it's urban legend or not but I heard of a pilot who crashed
in the Rockies. He survived the crash but was pinned in the wreckage. A
nice family of bears came along and ate him.

Cheers,

BillC

[Brian Burger]

On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Ken Reed wrote:

> > A CPR ticket is legally valid for three years - practical currency,
> > as always, is another matter!
>
> From our studies, we have found the vast majority of dentists and their
> staff (and I'm sure physicians and other health care providers too) cannot
> perform reasonable (not perfect) CPR in as little as six months after
> taking the course.

Ouch. This doesn't bode well for those of us who aren't medical
professionals, does it? I *think* I could do CPR reasonably if someone
keeled over in in the next ten minutes, but...

> Also, "legally valid" is poor terminology. For a few years now the card
> simply says that you have "successfully completed the curriculum" on a
> particular date. I haven't taught the American Red Cross BLS courses in a
> few years, but they expired after one year. The American Heart Association
> courses expire after two years. Who issues a card for three years ?

The Canadian Red Cross. My Standard First Aid/CPR 'C' card has a Nov. 2006
expiry date. People who need the CPR for work (lifeguards, nurses, etc)
have to recert annually, though.

AFAIK there is some legal validity, too. The Canadian Red Cross provides a
certain amount of liability insurance to anyone who's got a valid CPR
ticket from them, in case the Good Samaritan laws don't cover something
reasonable you've done. (apparently this insurance is very, very rarely
used, thankfully.)

Brian.

[Robert M. Gary]

"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message news:<hLwGc.16623$JR4.7695@attbi_s54>...
> A pilot crashed on a NH mountain in fog yesterday. He survived, but his
> 17-year-old son did not. Rescuers were able to find him in part because he
> was blowing a whistle. I just added one to my flight bag.
> (http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3AA12BB8)

In addition to our first aid kit we have (within reach) and smoke hood
and a fire extinguisher.

[Newps]

"BillC85" > wrote in message
...
>
> I don't know if it's urban legend or not but I heard of a pilot who
crashed
> in the Rockies. He survived the crash but was pinned in the wreckage. A
> nice family of bears came along and ate him.
>

A Piper Arrow crashed 40 miles SE of here about 5 years ago. The crash site
is on top of some flat top mountains near Fort Smith, MT. The plane crash
was a CFIT so there wasn't a lot of damage to the plane but both occupants
killed. When the weather cleared a helicopter found the scene and chased
off a couple of Black bears. They had already started munching on the
nearest passneger. The plane is still up there. You can get to it with a
Cub or helicopter.

[Clay]

(Rosspilot) wrote in message >...
> >He used an AOL advertising CD with the sides shaved off to make it
> >conveniently small (though still bigger than the usual signal mirror.) Easy
> >to use, free, and much lighter than the double-glass ones usually sold for
> >the purpose.
>
>
> See that? AOL *IS* good for something!
>
> :-)
>
>
>
> www.Rosspilot.com


Paper towels. Can be used for anything for wiping the dip stick or used as T.P.

Latex gloves. Protect hands from blood. Never know what a passenger may have.

Fishing line and safety pins. May need to catch some fish to eat.

Magnifying glass. Start fires, read small print, find splinters, or roast ants.

Survival booklet.

[alexy]

"Skipper" > wrote:

>good site at www.bestglide.com for stuff like this
>

Another is www.equipped.com
--
Alex
Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.

[Brian Burger]

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Stealth Pilot wrote:

> dont go overboard on the training most of it is quite simple.
>
> 1. if you think you are going to prang you have the wrong attitude to
> flying and maintenance. your certified engine has no reason not to
> make 2000 hours trouble free if the maintenance is sound. no reason at
> all. prevention is far better than experience when it comes to
> accidents.

Yes, but "The odds said this shouldn't have happened." makes a pretty
lousy epitaph, I think. We train for engine-failures & forced landings in
PPL training, but by your logic, it's a waste of time.

After all, the vast majority of pilots are going to go an entire flying
lifetime w/o making a forced landing, so why train for it? Sorry, but your
reasoning doesn't hold water, either wrt first aid or forced landing
training...

> 4. it helps the thinking considerably if you dont panic.

This should be Rule #1, not #4! :)

<snip>
> in your flying you'll be dealing with
> healthy people.

Sure, but even healthy people trip over things, walk into props or
doorframes, spill hot coffee etc etc. Basic first aid training, even if
all it does is reenforce your rule #4 (Don't Panic!), is useful outside
aircraft emergency situations too.

Brian.

[JJS]

I'd add shock management into your repertoire, Stealth. And to manage
shock you need to be able to monitor vitals. Proper methods of moving
a patient to safety, a short distance away from a crash site without
further injury may be very important. Help may not be immediately
forthcoming if the crash happens in a remote or even just a rural
area. You may need to treat for the long term. Now the situation is
more complex and recurrent training may be of great value. I believe
training is money well spent. Losing a loved one because you are
cheap would be hard to deal with. FWIW, discouraging people from
getting this training is not wise in my opinion,. You are correct in
that staying calm and making the right decisions is paramount. This
may not be easy when your loved one is the victim.

Joe Schneider
8437R

"Stealth Pilot" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 21:45:26 -0700, Brian Burger
>
> wrote:
snip

> 1. if you think you are going to prang you have the wrong attitude
to
> flying and maintenance. your certified engine has no reason not to
> make 2000 hours trouble free if the maintenance is sound. no reason
at
> all. prevention is far better than experience when it comes to
> accidents.
>
> 2. first aid is quite simple for 99% of cases.
>
> if a person is on their way out of life firstly their breathing
stops
> or their airway gets obstructed. 300 seconds later (roughly) their
> heart runs out of oxygen and stops.
>
> the heart never stops while they are breathing.
>
> the priority for first aid is to keep the airway clear and
> unobstructed.
> if some one is out of it, roll them on their side, gently move the
> head back and pull their jaw up to keep the trachea open.
> make sure they havent swallowed their tongue.
> they will be quite comfortable in that position for a few hours.
>
> all of the rest of the mickey mouse training is really devoted to
half
> of the remaining 1% of situations and can be looked at in that light
> quite competently.
>
> 3. gentle pressure to the area will stop most bleeding
>
> 4. it helps the thinking considerably if you dont panic.
>
> there you go. that's the crux of a 2 day $120 dollar first aid
course.
> just as an aid to getting the priorities right, in a year working in
a
> busy hospital with really frail, injured and sick people I've never
> needed to give first aid ever. in your flying you'll be dealing with
> healthy people.
>
> Stealth Pilot

[Bob Chilcoat]

Not quite as annoying as the yo-yo who brings his boom box to the top of the
mountain where I've hiked to get away from the noise of civilization. My
thesis advisor wanted me to build him a jammer for those circumstances. I
suggested something more lethal, like an electomagnetic pulse generator that
would fry his RF detector. Unfortunately I never built either one. Sigh...

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
America

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 13:51:23 -0400,
> wrote:
>
> >I know people who bought a set of those tiny walkie talkies to keep
> >track of each other in crowded places. Seems a bit more neighborly
> >than blowing a whistle in a mall. Range is a couple of miles outside.
>
> It bugs the hell out of me when I am skiing at Aspen (not that I am
> always skiing at Aspen, but that is where I've seen/heard the
> walkie-talkies).
>
> The parents go to Ajax and the kiddies go to Buttermilk (or perhaps I
> have that wrong, and the kiddies are bumpging the moguls on the Back
> of Bell). And they talk, talk, talk. Where are you now? We're here.
> Where shall we have lunch? Are you having fun?
>
> I yearn for an AK-47.
>
>
>
> all the best -- Dan Ford
> email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)
>
> The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
> The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
> Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[Bob Chilcoat]

If you hear something big moving out there, turn on your flashlight. If you
don't like what you see, turn it off again.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
America

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 16:28:28 GMT, EDR > wrote:
>
> > 5. Flashlight with good batteries (extras & bulb)
>
> A wise hiker once pointed out that there is nothing worth seeing in
> the New Hampshire mountains at night--and if there is, you're better
> off not seeing it.
>
> all the best -- Dan Ford
> email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)
>
> The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
> The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
> Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[Bob Chilcoat]

My wife and I've had numerous CPR and first aid training courses over the
years. Neither of us had ever had to use it until a couple of years ago on
a $100 burger run. My wife suddenly started choking on a piece of prime rib
(OK, it wasn't a burger -- a nicer restaurant) and I had to use the Heimlich
maneuver to save her life. Scared the crap out of me. I was always
skeptical about the Heimlich maneuver, but it worked perfectly. She was
completely obstructed and unable to help herself. One thrust and out popped
the meat. Good thing. It would have been really tough loading her into the
Cherokee if she'd died.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
America

"Brian Burger" > wrote in message
ia.tc.ca...
> Related to the 'what survival equipment do you carry' questions:
>
> How many people here have any sort of First Aid/CPR training, or have
> considered getting some?
>
> If you've had training, are you legally & practically current in it? A CPR
> ticket is legally valid for three years - practical currency, as always,
> is another matter!
>
> I did a Red Cross Standard First Aid & CPR 'C' course in November 2003;
> I've skimmed through my textbook & class-notes a few times since, most
> recently when I burnt my ankle with v. hot tea!
>
> There's a St. John's Ambulance Wilderness First Aid course here in town
> this fall that I'm seriously considering signing up for, too. Outside of
> accidents in the hanger, pilots could well face a wilderness first aid
> situation after a forced landing, where 'make the victim comfortable then
> call 911' just isn't an option.
>
> Compared to the costs of actually flying, these are inexpensive courses;
> the Red Cross Standard First Aid was $80 Cdn (~$60 USD); the Wilderness
> one is $180 Cdn (~$140 USD).
>
> So, what First Aid training do people have?
>
> Brian.
>
> --
>

[Matt Young]

And remember you don't have to outrun it, you only have to outrun your
friend.



Bob Chilcoat wrote:

> If you hear something big moving out there, turn on your flashlight. If you
> don't like what you see, turn it off again.
>
> --
> Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)
>
> I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
> America
>
> "Cub Driver" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 16:28:28 GMT, EDR > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> 5. Flashlight with good batteries (extras & bulb)
>>
>>A wise hiker once pointed out that there is nothing worth seeing in
>>the New Hampshire mountains at night--and if there is, you're better
>>off not seeing it.
>>
>>all the best -- Dan Ford
>>email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)
>>
>>The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
>>The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
>>Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org
>
>
>

[vincent p. norris]

>Or a CD. An Oregon sheriff on search and rescue showed a group of us that
>trick. He used an AOL advertising CD with the sides shaved off to make it
>conveniently small (though still bigger than the usual signal mirror.) Easy
>to use, free, and much lighter than the double-glass ones usually sold for
>the purpose.

Good idea, but you need to include the hole, or make a hole, and learn
how to use that hole to aim the "flash" where you need it.

vince norris

[vincent p. norris]

>I don't know if it's urban legend or not but I heard of a pilot who crashed
>in the Rockies. He survived the crash but was pinned in the wreckage. A
>nice family of bears came along and ate him.

If the bears ate him, how do we know he survived the crash?

Kinda like that ridiculous tale Ronald Reagan told about the shot-up
bomber whose belly gunner couldn't get out. So after all the other
crew had bailed out, the pilot went back, took the belly gunner's
hand, and said, "That's OK, son, we'll ride this one out together."

vince norris

[Clay]

I also carry a hand held radio with an extra battery pack.

Matt Young > wrote in message . net>...
> And remember you don't have to outrun it, you only have to outrun your
> friend.
>
>
>
> Bob Chilcoat wrote:
>
> > If you hear something big moving out there, turn on your flashlight. If you
> > don't like what you see, turn it off again.
> >
> > --
> > Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)
> >
> > I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
> > America
> >
> > "Cub Driver" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 16:28:28 GMT, EDR > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> 5. Flashlight with good batteries (extras & bulb)
> >>
> >>A wise hiker once pointed out that there is nothing worth seeing in
> >>the New Hampshire mountains at night--and if there is, you're better
> >>off not seeing it.
> >>
> >>all the best -- Dan Ford
> >>email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)
> >>
> >>The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
> >>The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
> >>Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org
> >
> >
> >

[G.R. Patterson III]

Bob Chilcoat wrote:
>
> If you hear something big moving out there, turn on your flashlight. If you
> don't like what you see, turn it off again.

Tape the flashlight to a 12 gauge loaded with 00 buck.

George Patterson
In Idaho, tossing a rattlesnake into a crowded room is felony assault.
In Tennessee, it's evangelism.

[BillC85]

I dunno. Maybe he scribbled a note to his wife or something.

If you're going to perpetuate an urban myth you have to think out side the
box.

BillC


"vincent p. norris" > wrote in message
...
> >I don't know if it's urban legend or not but I heard of a pilot who
crashed
> >in the Rockies. He survived the crash but was pinned in the wreckage. A
> >nice family of bears came along and ate him.
>
> If the bears ate him, how do we know he survived the crash?
>
> vince norris

[Kathy]

"vincent p. norris" > wrote in message
...
> >Or a CD. An Oregon sheriff on search and rescue showed a group of us that
> >trick. He used an AOL advertising CD with the sides shaved off to make it
> >conveniently small (though still bigger than the usual signal mirror.)
Easy
> >to use, free, and much lighter than the double-glass ones usually sold
for
> >the purpose.
>
> Good idea, but you need to include the hole, or make a hole, and learn
> how to use that hole to aim the "flash" where you need it.
>
> vince norris

He had a neat trick that didn't require the hole (though the CD had one.)
He held the CD in his right hand and shifted it around to aim the bright
reflection onto his left palm. He held his left thumb out to make a V of
thumb and forefinger. He moved his left hand - keeping the sunspot on his
palm by shifting the CD - until the plane was framed in the V. Then he eased
the sunspot up from his palm into the V and at the plane. The process seemed
much easier to do and remember than the mirror-and-hole business.

My husband tried it on me once. Although I wasn't expecting it - he hadn't
mentioned that he planned to signal - the very bright flash from the CD
immediately caught my attention. The repeated flickers made it very clear
that I was being signalled intentionally.

Kathy

[Paul Sengupta]

Outside the aluminium wrapper?

Paul

"BillC85" > wrote in message
...
> I dunno. Maybe he scribbled a note to his wife or something.
>
> If you're going to perpetuate an urban myth you have to think out side the
> box.
>
> BillC
>
>
> "vincent p. norris" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >I don't know if it's urban legend or not but I heard of a pilot who
> crashed
> > >in the Rockies. He survived the crash but was pinned in the wreckage.
A
> > >nice family of bears came along and ate him.
> >
> > If the bears ate him, how do we know he survived the crash?
> >
> > vince norris
>
>

[Brian Burger]

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Greg Copeland wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 08:02:40 -0700, Bob Gardner wrote:
>
> > I hope you got a rescue whistle, not a "police" whistle with a pea. Rescue
> > whistles can be heard for half a mile and are available at suppliers of
> > outdoor equipment.
> >
>
> Good to know. I didn't realize there was a distinction.

Lots of good information on whistles here:
http://www.equipped.org/soundoff.htm

Any outdoor store and many hardware stores should have these; they're $2-5
a piece, and well worth it.

Brian.

[Rick Durden]

Gary,

For a serious discussion on what to carry when you are flying, go to
the website dedicated to evaluationg survival equipment for pilots:
www.equipped.org It is part of a nonprofit called Equipped To Survive
and is run by the aviation survival guru Doug Ritter.

There is finally an excellent pocket survival kit that includes a
signaling mirror and whistle designed for volume and distance that has
been put together by Ritter (his research indicates that if the
survival equipment isn't physically on your person you probably won't
be able to find it after an accident). The pocket survival kit is
available through www.aeromedix.com which also has a medical kit that
I carry in the airplane.

It's worth going to equipped.org if only to read the detailed reviews
on survival knives and the stuff to avoid because they don't work,
break or cannot be opened with one hand. Also, take a look at the
information on ditching. It punctures some of the myths on the
subject.

All the best,
Rick

"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message news:<hLwGc.16623$JR4.7695@attbi_s54>...
> A pilot crashed on a NH mountain in fog yesterday. He survived, but his
> 17-year-old son did not. Rescuers were able to find him in part because he
> was blowing a whistle. I just added one to my flight bag.
> (http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3AA12BB8)
>
> --Gary

[Gary Drescher]

"Rick Durden" > wrote in message
m...
> Gary,
>
> For a serious discussion on what to carry when you are flying, go to
> the website dedicated to evaluationg survival equipment for pilots:
> www.equipped.org It is part of a nonprofit called Equipped To Survive
> and is run by the aviation survival guru Doug Ritter.
>
> There is finally an excellent pocket survival kit that includes a
> signaling mirror and whistle designed for volume and distance that has
> been put together by Ritter (his research indicates that if the
> survival equipment isn't physically on your person you probably won't
> be able to find it after an accident). The pocket survival kit is
> available through www.aeromedix.com which also has a medical kit that
> I carry in the airplane.
>
> It's worth going to equipped.org if only to read the detailed reviews
> on survival knives and the stuff to avoid because they don't work,
> break or cannot be opened with one hand. Also, take a look at the
> information on ditching. It punctures some of the myths on the
> subject.

Thanks, I'll have a look! I've already got some of the basics (rescue
whistle, compass, mirror, foil blankets) but I'm undecided about the
cost-benefit tradeoff for more expensive items.

A question for anyone here who carries a survival kit when you fly: have you
ever needed to use it?

--Gary

>
> All the best,
> Rick
>
> "Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
news:<hLwGc.16623$JR4.7695@attbi_s54>...
> > A pilot crashed on a NH mountain in fog yesterday. He survived, but his
> > 17-year-old son did not. Rescuers were able to find him in part because
he
> > was blowing a whistle. I just added one to my flight bag.
> > (http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3AA12BB8)
> >
> > --Gary

[G.R. Patterson III]

Gary Drescher wrote:
>
> A question for anyone here who carries a survival kit when you fly: have you
> ever needed to use it?

I have never needed the kit for an emergency situation, but I have used pieces of it
(matches, line, ponchos, etc.) at flyins when I discovered that I left certain items
of camping gear behind.

George Patterson
In Idaho, tossing a rattlesnake into a crowded room is felony assault.
In Tennessee, it's evangelism.

[Mike Rapoport]

I leave a sleeping bag, groung pad, gortex parka and warm gloves in the
airplane during the winter. I have needed all of them at one time or
another and I haven't even crashed!

Mike
MU-2

"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
news:qCfJc.90480$XM6.20444@attbi_s53...
> "Rick Durden" > wrote in message
> m...
> > Gary,
> >
> > For a serious discussion on what to carry when you are flying, go to
> > the website dedicated to evaluationg survival equipment for pilots:
> > www.equipped.org It is part of a nonprofit called Equipped To Survive
> > and is run by the aviation survival guru Doug Ritter.
> >
> > There is finally an excellent pocket survival kit that includes a
> > signaling mirror and whistle designed for volume and distance that has
> > been put together by Ritter (his research indicates that if the
> > survival equipment isn't physically on your person you probably won't
> > be able to find it after an accident). The pocket survival kit is
> > available through www.aeromedix.com which also has a medical kit that
> > I carry in the airplane.
> >
> > It's worth going to equipped.org if only to read the detailed reviews
> > on survival knives and the stuff to avoid because they don't work,
> > break or cannot be opened with one hand. Also, take a look at the
> > information on ditching. It punctures some of the myths on the
> > subject.
>
> Thanks, I'll have a look! I've already got some of the basics (rescue
> whistle, compass, mirror, foil blankets) but I'm undecided about the
> cost-benefit tradeoff for more expensive items.
>
> A question for anyone here who carries a survival kit when you fly: have
you
> ever needed to use it?
>
> --Gary
>
> >
> > All the best,
> > Rick
> >
> > "Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
> news:<hLwGc.16623$JR4.7695@attbi_s54>...
> > > A pilot crashed on a NH mountain in fog yesterday. He survived, but
his
> > > 17-year-old son did not. Rescuers were able to find him in part
because
> he
> > > was blowing a whistle. I just added one to my flight bag.
> > > (http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3AA12BB8)
> > >
> > > --Gary
>
>

[Rosspilot]

I bought what I thought would be a good addition to my survival kit (which,
BTW, is a backpack kept in the aft baggage compartment). The item came from
one of the websites in this thread from a week or so ago . . . dried rations w/
a 5 year shelf life. I bought 6 units. When the package came, it was so heavy
I decided it wasn't practical unless I only put 1 or 2 rations in there.
www.Rosspilot.com

[john smith]

Gary Drescher wrote:
> A question for anyone here who carries a survival kit when you fly: have you
> ever needed to use it?

Not yet!