TFRs and ADIZ: The Final Solution

[C J Campbell]

Ernie Fletcher nearly got himself shot down when he penetrated the DC ADIZ
with a busted transponder. Can you imagine what would have resulted from
such an event? It could well have been the end of the Bush administration.
So, I have a modest (ahem) proposal.

Democrats! Here is your chance to so embarrass the Bush administration that
it will fall almost immediately! Each of you take your plane and
'accidentally' fly it into the ADIZ. Not all at once; it has to look random.
Be sure to take your families with you. Then, when you get shot down, the
Bush administration will get a black eye from 'killing innocent women and
children.' The Kerry campaign will have a field day criticizing 'the
reckless behavior of the Bush administration.' There will be Congressional
investigations, independent prosecutors, maybe even impeachment proceedings.
The fact that all the people killed are Democrats will make it look like
some kind of evil Republican conspiracy. It might even mean the end of the
Republican Party as we know it.

I know that many of you have said that you would do anything to get rid of
Bush, so here is your chance. After all, what are the lives of a few
Democrats compared with ousting the rascals from office? Al-Qaeda have
repeatedly demonstrated that they are willing to sacrifice their lives
simply to get Bush out of office. Can you do less than a bunch of
foreigners? I say go for it. The more of you Democrats that go and get
yourselves killed, the better off this country is going to be.

--
Christopher J. Campbell
World Famous Flight Instructor
Port Orchard, WA


If you go around beating the Bush, don't complain if you rile the animals.

[Larry Dighera]

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 08:26:58 -0700, "C J Campbell"
> wrote:

>Democrats! Here is your chance to so embarrass the Bush administration that
>it will fall almost immediately!

Interesting satire, CJ.

Fortunately, nothing more needs to be done to get baby Bush out of
office than wait for the Presidential election in November. Michael
Moor's latest hit cinematic documentary provides all the information
necessary for any thinking American to make the right choice.

[john smith]

Larry Dighera wrote:
> Fortunately, nothing more needs to be done to get baby Bush out of
> office than wait for the Presidential election in November. Michael
> Moor's latest hit cinematic documentary provides all the information
> necessary for any thinking American to make the right choice.

A better description is a "mockumentary".
Moore's film is so full of falsehoods, it's funny.

[Dan Luke]

"C J Campbell" wrote:
> Al-Qaeda have repeatedly demonstrated that they are
> willing to sacrifice their lives simply to get Bush out
> of office.

Al-Qaeda would be appalled if Bush lost the election: they need him.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[John Harlow]

> Democrats! Here is your chance to so embarrass the Bush
> administration that it will fall almost immediately!

I don't think the Bush administration needs anymore help in embarassing
itself.

[Jim Herring]

Great idea. Kerry and Edwards should be the first to do it.

--
Jim

carry on

[Rosspilot]

>> Fortunately, nothing more needs to be done to get baby Bush out of
>> office than wait for the Presidential election in November. Michael
>> Moor's latest hit cinematic documentary provides all the information
>> necessary for any thinking American to make the right choice.
>
>A better description is a "mockumentary".
>Moore's film is so full of falsehoods, it's funny.
>


Like what, f'rinstance?
www.Rosspilot.com

[Jim Fisher]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
> Fortunately, nothing more needs to be done to get baby Bush out of
> office than wait for the Presidential election in November. Michael
> Moor's latest hit cinematic documentary provides all the information
> necessary for any thinking American to make the right choice.

Even more-better satire! I love it!

--
Jim Fisher

[Chris W]

Democrat or republican, liberal or conservative. . . does anyone here
really believe the nonsense now thrust upon GA by politicians pandering
to irrational fears of the public that is fostered by the media morons,
would be any better with someone else in the Whitehouse?

--
Chris W

Bring Back the HP 15C
http://hp15c.org

Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help.
http://thewishzone.com

[Ash Wyllie]

Jim Herring opined

>Great idea. Kerry and Edwards should be the first to do it.

Both Bush and Kerry are pilots. Maybe they can go together.



-ash
Cthulhu for President!
Why vote for a lesser evil?

[C J Campbell]

"Rosspilot" > wrote in message
...
> >> Fortunately, nothing more needs to be done to get baby Bush out of
> >> office than wait for the Presidential election in November. Michael
> >> Moor's latest hit cinematic documentary provides all the information
> >> necessary for any thinking American to make the right choice.
> >
> >A better description is a "mockumentary".
> >Moore's film is so full of falsehoods, it's funny.
> >
>
>
> Like what, f'rinstance?

Like the bit about Afghan pipelines, f'rinstance. There aren't any. The rest
of the movie is just about as accurate as that. It is about as much a
documentary as "JFK" or "The Day After Tomorrow" were. Disney's cartoon
"Pocahontas" was probably more historically accurate, even though that film
had the main character's age, appearance, political opinions, and love
interests wrong. "Fahrenheit 9/11" makes "The Core" look like a respected
text on physics by comparison.

[C J Campbell]

"Rosspilot" > wrote in message
...
> >> Fortunately, nothing more needs to be done to get baby Bush out of
> >> office than wait for the Presidential election in November. Michael
> >> Moor's latest hit cinematic documentary provides all the information
> >> necessary for any thinking American to make the right choice.
> >
> >A better description is a "mockumentary".
> >Moore's film is so full of falsehoods, it's funny.
> >
>
>
> Like what, f'rinstance?

I thought you might like a more complete list:

The footage of Gore celebrating his victory is actually footage from a party
early on election day. Contrary to the film, Fox News projected a Gore
victory in Florida. The movie implies that Fox was alone in projecting a
Bush victory. All the network projections were made before the polls had
closed in Florida.

The movie says that Gore would have won with any recount in Florida. In
fact, under most recounts, Bush's lead widened. The only way Gore could win
is if the military vote was allowed to be disenfranchised and only a few
heavily Democratic counties were recounted.

The suggestion that felons are not allowed to vote because of their race is
ridiculous.

Bush in fact was able to pass a large amount of his agenda before 9/11, such
as the tax cut. His Presidency was not stalled as the movie implies. The
main thing that was stalled was the confirmation of judges due to Democratic
filibustering, which was beginning to anger the public against Democrats.

Most of the so-called "vacation time" was actually meetings with foreign
leaders at Camp David.

Although Moore presents the terror attacks very dramatically, he himself
said at the time that he though they were no big deal.

Moore criticizes the President for continuing to read to school children.
What was he supposed to do? There were no facts indicating a terrorist
attack until the second plane. He was on TV. Was he supposed to jump from
his chair and run from the room screaming in panic?

Contrary to Moore's statement, the President read the security briefing of
September 6, 2001. What has been revealed of the briefing is extremely vague
and gives no hint of any action that could have been taken to prevent the
attacks.

The Saudis in fact did leave the country on September 13, the same day that
everyone else was allowed to fly. Moore himself wanted to fly on September
14, but was persuaded not to by his wife and daughter. Nevertheless he
claims that no one except terrorists wanted to fly that week. Is he calling
himself a terrorist?

The reason James Bath's name and medical records were blacked out on Bush's
National Guard records was because of Federal privacy laws, not an evil Bush
conspiracy.

Prince Bandar is a long-time contact with the US Government. He is a good
friend of Bill Clinton as well as Bush.

Bush's sale of the Harken stock was approved by the company's lawyers and no
one but Moore has suggested any impropriety with the sale.

Claiming that Bush is tied to bin Laden because he knows someone who worked
for someone who contracted with someone else that was related to another
company that was run by someone who worked for bin Laden's estranged father
is a little ridiculous, to say the least. Al Gore probably has closer ties
than that.

The extent of claimed Saudi investment in the United States is completely
unsupported by the facts.

Bush quotes about terrorism in Israel are edited to remove references to
Israel. The Bush-Saudi conspiracy theory is completely unsupported by any
verifiable facts.

The Unocal pipeline in Afghanistan does not exist and could hardly be the
object of a Bush-Taliban conspiracy.

The Bush "welcome" of Hashemi was limited to a statement by Richard Boucher,
who said "we don't recognize the existence of any government in
Afghanistan." Some welcome.

After spending most of the movie trying to link Bush and bin Laden in a
conspiracy to commit terrorism, Moore suddenly changes tack and suggests
that bin Laden is innocent. Moore does not, however, show that any of the
evidence against bin Laden is wrong, including bin Laden's own taped
admission that he was responsible for the terrorist attack.

Moore questions the censoring of 28 pages of the 9/11 investigation. Good
for him. Even Moore cannot bat 0. Nevertheless, the censorship is probably
due to genuine security concerns rather than to cover up a fictitious
conspiracy.

Voters knew they were voting for Carnahan's wife in Missouri, not a dead
man. However, given Moore's demonstrated level of intelligence, he himself
might not have been able to figure that one out.

Bush increase funding for anti-terrorism at the FBI. The movie claims he cut
it.

Goss does indeed have a toll free number. The movie claims he does not.

Moore apparently does not realize that Oregon manages and pays for its state
troopers, not the federal government.

Numerous Palestinian bombers were funded by Saddam Hussein; even Moore does
not dispute that. Americans have been murdered by these bombers. Moore makes
the ridiculous claim that Hussein is not responsible for that.

Saddam Hussein made numerous threats to attack American targets. Moore says
he did not.

Condoleezza Rice's statement about an Iraq/al Qaeda link is taken out of
context. In fact, she said that Iraq promotes hatred of the United States
and funds terrorists, both of which facts were well known.

The scenes of pre-invasion Iraq filled with happy, smiling children are
dismissive of Hussein's genocide, use of weapons of mass destruction against
his own people, and brutal reign of terror.

Moore seems to think that we never kill anyone but women and children. That
is just plain insulting.

Moore leaves Spain, Italy, Poland, and England out of the "coalition of the
willing," implying that only tiny, inconsequential countries were part of
the coalition.

Moore conveniently ignores the softball coverage that Rather and Jennings
ran of Iraq before the war. He also ignores that these anchors have
consistently criticized the war.

Moore's scene of prisoner abuse contains no prisoners.

Moore talks about Bush closing underutilized Veteran's hospitals, without
mentioning Bush sponsored increases in pay and benefits for the military and
opening of new Veteran's hospitals.

Moore criticizes Congress members for not wanting to sacrifice their
children in Iraq. Give me a break. No soldier or his family wants him to
die.

Moore is not from Flint, Michigan as he claims in the movie. Flint's
unemployment rate has not been as high as 17% since 1993. Persons whose
unemployment insurance runs out are still counted as unemployed.

Moore does get interviews with rabid Bush-hater Tom Daschle and Saddam
sympathizer Jim McDermott. The only reason McDermott has not been charged
with treason is that he is a Congressman.

Moore has been contacted by several terrorist organizations and fronts
offering to support and promote the film in any way they can.

[Gary Drescher]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
> Moore does get interviews with rabid Bush-hater Tom Daschle and Saddam
> sympathizer Jim McDermott. The only reason McDermott has not been charged
> with treason is that he is a Congressman.

Visiting CJ's world is a fascinating escapist diversion. As usual, CJ cites
no sources for any of his claims, so let's just look briefly at his most
outlandish assertion. The right-wing fabrication concerning McDermott's
"sympathy" for Saddam Hussein was exposed in an earlier thread here that CJ
participated in. Here's a quick recap. (Unlike CJ, I provide actual quotes
and sources.)

In an interview two years ago, George Stephanopoulos asked McDermott what
the Iraqi officials had told him about inspectors' access to the suspect
sites. McDermott replied (emphasis added), "They said they would allow us to
go and look anywhere we wanted, AND UNTIL THEY DON'T DO THAT, there is no
need to do this coercive stuff where you bring in helicopters and armed
people and storm buildings. I think you have to take the Iraqis on their
face value." (ABC News, 29 September 2002)

So McDermott said we should TEST Iraq's pledge to allow unfettered
inspections, by taking the pledge at "face value" only in the sense of
proceeding with the inspections until and unless the pledge is violated.
Subsequently, right-wing commentators dishonestly quoted the face-value
sentence without any of the preceding context, making it sound as though
McDermott had simply proclaimed that whatever the Iraqis say should be
trusted without question! This distortion then further morphed into
McDermott's "sympathy" for Saddam (whom McDermott, in reality, condemns).

But that's still not rabid enough for CJ, who now tells us that McDermott's
conduct is treasonous. CJ thinks we live in a country where disagreeing with
the president about weapons-inspection policy constitutes treason! And if CJ
had his way, this would indeed be such a country.

--Gary

[Larry Dighera]

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:54:56 -0700, "C J Campbell"
> wrote:

>> >Moore's film is so full of falsehoods, it's funny.
>> >
>>
>>
>> Like what, f'rinstance?
>
>Like the bit about Afghan pipelines, f'rinstance. There aren't any.

Of course, you are correct about the pipeline's not yet being
constructed.

Moore's film puts forth the notion, that upon being made the new
leader of Afghanistan, Hamid Karzai, a former advisor to the Unocal
oil company, approved the construction of a natural gas pipeline
through Afghanistan. It also mentions, that VP Cheney stands to gain
from Halliburton's contracts to construct the pipeline
<http://corpwatch.radicaldesigns.org/article.php?id=6008>
<http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/tncs/2002/cheneyafghan.htm>, and
the Bush family ties to the Carlisle Group pose a conflict of interest
<http://www.hereinreality.com/carlyle.html>.

There's an interesting account here:
http://www.thedubyareport.com/oilwar.html

I don't recall seeing where Moore implied that the pipeline had
already been constructed, so I don't consider that a to be a
falsehood.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Rosspilot wrote:
>
> Like what, f'rinstance?
> www.Rosspilot.com

WNYC carried an interview with another filmmaker who discussed the film. One of the
biggest problems with Moore's work is his deliberate slanting of things by presenting
them out of context. The interviewee compared it to the butcher jobs that CBS became
famous for in the 70s. One glaring example given was the excerpt from one of Bush's
interviews in which he's promising to fight terrorists (I believe they said it was on
a golf course). In the movie, this is presented as happening in reaction to 9/11,
which makes the audience think Bush is referring to Bin Laden and his ilk. The
statement about "pursuing them wherever they may hide" is presented as intention to
pursue an invasion of Iraq. In reality, the speech was given months before 9/11 and
the topic of discussion was the suicide bombers in Irael.

Whatever it is, it is *not* a documentary.

George Patterson
In Idaho, tossing a rattlesnake into a crowded room is felony assault.
In Tennessee, it's evangelism.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Chris W wrote:
>
> Democrat or republican, liberal or conservative. . . does anyone here
> really believe the nonsense now thrust upon GA by politicians pandering
> to irrational fears of the public that is fostered by the media morons,
> would be any better with someone else in the Whitehouse?

I certainly don't, but I *have* noticed that the most recent proposed restrictions
(like the proposed amendment that would force the FAA to prohibit flight over nuclear
power plants if the HSA increases the alert level) come from Democrats. In fact, that
one came from Kerry's home turf (though not from Kerry).

George Patterson
In Idaho, tossing a rattlesnake into a crowded room is felony assault.
In Tennessee, it's evangelism.

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:05:53 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
> wrote:

>One glaring example given was the excerpt from one of Bush's
>interviews in which he's promising to fight terrorists (I believe they said it was on
>a golf course). In the movie, this is presented as happening in reaction to 9/11,
>which makes the audience think Bush is referring to Bin Laden and his ilk. The
>statement about "pursuing them wherever they may hide" is presented as intention to
>pursue an invasion of Iraq.

The clip you reference above depicts a smug world leader who feigns
concern for world affairs while obviously being considerably more
interested in his golf swing.

You really should see the movie before you comment on it.

[C J Campbell]

"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
news:p4aJc.75462$MB3.32162@attbi_s04...
> "C J Campbell" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Moore does get interviews with rabid Bush-hater Tom Daschle and Saddam
> > sympathizer Jim McDermott. The only reason McDermott has not been
charged
> > with treason is that he is a Congressman.
>
> Visiting CJ's world is a fascinating escapist diversion.

As opposed to Gary Drescher's world where the real reason for the terrorist
attacks on the US and the subsequent invasion of Iraq was an enormous
Arab-Bush-al Qaeda conspiracy to destroy the World Trade Center as a pretext
for seizing control of a non-existent pipeline so that Cheney could get the
contract for his old friends at Halliburton. Seems like there might have
been an easier way to make money, but whatever.

Gary's world has Bush conspiring with Osama bin Laden to destroy the World
Trade Center but alleges that bin Laden knew nothing about the attack.

Well, Mr. Pot, still wanting to call the kettle black?

[C J Campbell]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:05:53 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
> > wrote:
>
> >One glaring example given was the excerpt from one of Bush's
> >interviews in which he's promising to fight terrorists (I believe they
said it was on
> >a golf course). In the movie, this is presented as happening in reaction
to 9/11,
> >which makes the audience think Bush is referring to Bin Laden and his
ilk. The
> >statement about "pursuing them wherever they may hide" is presented as
intention to
> >pursue an invasion of Iraq.
>
> The clip you reference above depicts a smug world leader who feigns
> concern for world affairs while obviously being considerably more
> interested in his golf swing.
>

Now, since you can't support your conspiracy theory, you simply revert to ad
hominem attacks against George Bush.

Granted, ad hominem attacks can be hysterically funny, but I suspect you
take yourself far too seriously to realize that. Anyway, here is tit for
tat:

2004 Democratic National Convention

Official Program



6:00pm- Opening flag burning ceremony.
6:05pm- Pledge of Allegiance to the United Nations
6:10pm- Secular words by Revs. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton
6:30pm- Anti-war concert by Barbra Streisand.
6:45pm- Ted Kennedy proposes a toast.
7:00pm- Tribute theme to France.
7:10pm- Collect offerings for al-Zawahri defense fund.
7:30pm- Tribute theme toGermany.
7:45pm- Anti-war rally moderated by Michael Moore.
8:25pm- Ted Kennedy proposes a toast.
8:30pm- Terrorist appeasement workshop.
9:00pm- Homosexual marriage ceremony for male and female couples.
9:30pm- CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN urge defeat of President Bush.
10:00pm- Posting the Iraqi Colors by Sean Penn and Tim Robbins
10:10pm- Reenactment of Kerry's fake medal toss.
10:20pm- Cameo by Dean 'Yeeearrrrrrrg!'
10:30pm- Abortion demonstration by N.A.R.A.L.
10:40pm- Ted Kennedy proposes a toast.
10:50pm- Special thanks to the New York Times and the Washington Post
11:00pm- Multiple homosexual marriage ceremony for threesomes and groups.
11:15pm- Maximizing Welfare workshop.
11:30pm- Saddam Legal Defense Fund pep rally.
11:50pm- Ted Kennedy proposes a toast.
12:00am - Nomination of Democratic candidate.

> NEW: 5:00am - Ted Kennedy Will Conduct a Driver Safety, Swimming and Water
safety Class

[Gary Drescher]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
> news:p4aJc.75462$MB3.32162@attbi_s04...
> > "C J Campbell" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Moore does get interviews with rabid Bush-hater Tom Daschle and Saddam
> > > sympathizer Jim McDermott. The only reason McDermott has not been
> charged
> > > with treason is that he is a Congressman.
> >
> > Visiting CJ's world is a fascinating escapist diversion.
>
> As opposed to Gary Drescher's world where the real reason for the
terrorist
> attacks on the US and the subsequent invasion of Iraq was an enormous
> Arab-Bush-al Qaeda conspiracy to destroy the World Trade Center as a
pretext
> for seizing control of a non-existent pipeline so that Cheney could get
the
> contract for his old friends at Halliburton. Seems like there might have
> been an easier way to make money, but whatever.
>
> Gary's world has Bush conspiring with Osama bin Laden to destroy the World
> Trade Center but alleges that bin Laden knew nothing about the attack.
>
> Well, Mr. Pot, still wanting to call the kettle black.

What you describe as my world is indeed every bit as outlandish as your
world.

The problem with your comparison, though, is that what I refer to as "your
world" consists of things you actually say (e.g. that Rep. McDermott
committed treason), whereas the views you attribute to me resemble nothing
I've ever said.

But that's the salient characteristic of your world: no grounding in reality
is required for attributing bizarre beliefs and attitudes to your opponents.

--Gary

[Gary Drescher]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
> news:p4aJc.75462$MB3.32162@attbi_s04...
> > "C J Campbell" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Moore does get interviews with rabid Bush-hater Tom Daschle and Saddam
> > > sympathizer Jim McDermott. The only reason McDermott has not been
> charged
> > > with treason is that he is a Congressman.
> >
> > Visiting CJ's world is a fascinating escapist diversion.
>
> As opposed to Gary Drescher's world where the real reason for the
terrorist
> attacks on the US and the subsequent invasion of Iraq was an enormous
> Arab-Bush-al Qaeda conspiracy to destroy the World Trade Center as a
pretext
> for seizing control of a non-existent pipeline so that Cheney could get
the
> contract for his old friends at Halliburton. Seems like there might have
> been an easier way to make money, but whatever.
>
> Gary's world has Bush conspiring with Osama bin Laden to destroy the World
> Trade Center but alleges that bin Laden knew nothing about the attack.
>
> Well, Mr. Pot, still wanting to call the kettle black.

What you describe as my world is indeed every bit as outlandish as your
world.

The problem with your comparison, though, is that what I refer to as "your
world" consists of things you actually say (e.g. that Rep. McDermott
committed treason), whereas the views you attribute to me resemble nothing
I've ever said.

But that's the salient characteristic of your world: no grounding in reality
is required for attributing bizarre beliefs and attitudes to your opponents.

--Gary

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:24:45 -0700, "C J Campbell"
> wrote:

>Now, since you can't support your conspiracy theory,

Chris, please provide the Message-ID of the article in THIS message
thread in which you read a statement from me proclaiming a "conspiracy
theory." You're inference of my statements belongs to you; please
don't attribute it to me.

>you simply revert to ad hominem attacks against George Bush.

Please also provide the Message-ID of the article in THIS message
thread in which you inferred my statements to be "ad hominem attacks
against George Bush."

Please also respond to my clarification of your misstatement about Mr.
Moore's movie containing a falsehood regarding the existence of a
pipeline through Afghanistan in Message-ID:
>.

[Neil Gould]

Recently, G.R. Patterson III > posted:

> Rosspilot wrote:
>>
>> Like what, f'rinstance?
>> www.Rosspilot.com
>
> WNYC carried an interview with another filmmaker who discussed the
> film.
>
Hmm. Could you clear something up for me, please? Did you actually *see*
this movie?

Regards,

Neil

[Neil Gould]

Recently, G.R. Patterson III > posted:
>
> George Patterson
> In Idaho, tossing a rattlesnake into a crowded room is felony
> assault. In Tennessee, it's evangelism.
>
That's the beauty of having States' Rights.

Regards,

Neil

[Rosspilot]

>>>
>>> Like what, f'rinstance?
>>> www.Rosspilot.com
>>
>> WNYC carried an interview with another filmmaker who discussed the
>> film.
>>
>Hmm. Could you clear something up for me, please? Did you actually *see*
>this movie?


If you're asking me, the answer is yes.





www.Rosspilot.com

[G.R. Patterson III]

Larry Dighera wrote:
>
> You really should see the movie before you comment on it.

I did not comment on it. I repeated statements from a review of the movie which aired
a few days ago on National Public Radio (WNYC). I stated that in my post. The person
who made those statements saw the movie.

*You* really should read a post before you reply to it.

George Patterson
In Idaho, tossing a rattlesnake into a crowded room is felony assault.
In Tennessee, it's evangelism.

[Larry Dighera]

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 02:24:07 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
> wrote:


>I did not comment on it. I repeated statements from a review of the movie which aired
>a few days ago on National Public Radio (WNYC). I stated that in my post. The person
>who made those statements saw the movie.

You should see it also. It might open your eyes a bit.

Then you could make a judgment as to the validity of the opinions you
mouthed.

[Neil Gould]

Recently, G.R. Patterson III > posted:

> Larry Dighera wrote:
>>
>> You really should see the movie before you comment on it.
>
> I did not comment on it. I repeated statements from a review of the
> movie which aired a few days ago on National Public Radio (WNYC). I
> stated that in my post. The person who made those statements saw the
> movie.
>
> *You* really should read a post before you reply to it.
>
Well, I read your post, understood that you were passing on misinformation
given to you by someone else that you apparently were willing to accept as
fact, and wondered why you agreed with it, since it was so off track.
Having read many of your (apparently) helpful posts regarding aviation,
such a tactic makes me wonder about the integrity of those posts, too.

Regards,

Neil

[C J Campbell]

"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
news:09dJc.78376$%_6.15146@attbi_s01...
> "C J Campbell" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
> > news:p4aJc.75462$MB3.32162@attbi_s04...
> > > "C J Campbell" > wrote in
message
> > > ...
> > > > Moore does get interviews with rabid Bush-hater Tom Daschle and
Saddam
> > > > sympathizer Jim McDermott. The only reason McDermott has not been
> > charged
> > > > with treason is that he is a Congressman.
> > >
> > > Visiting CJ's world is a fascinating escapist diversion.
> >
> > As opposed to Gary Drescher's world where the real reason for the
> terrorist
> > attacks on the US and the subsequent invasion of Iraq was an enormous
> > Arab-Bush-al Qaeda conspiracy to destroy the World Trade Center as a
> pretext
> > for seizing control of a non-existent pipeline so that Cheney could get
> the
> > contract for his old friends at Halliburton. Seems like there might have
> > been an easier way to make money, but whatever.
> >
> > Gary's world has Bush conspiring with Osama bin Laden to destroy the
World
> > Trade Center but alleges that bin Laden knew nothing about the attack.
> >
> > Well, Mr. Pot, still wanting to call the kettle black.
>
> What you describe as my world is indeed every bit as outlandish as your
> world.
>
> The problem with your comparison, though, is that what I refer to as "your
> world" consists of things you actually say (e.g. that Rep. McDermott
> committed treason), whereas the views you attribute to me resemble nothing
> I've ever said.

Really? Weren't you the one defending Moore's movie? Or do you now deny it?

The truth bites, doesn't it? Sorry, if you think Fahrenheit 9/11 has
anything important to say, then what I said about your fantasies is spot on.

[C J Campbell]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:24:45 -0700, "C J Campbell"
> > wrote:
>
> >Now, since you can't support your conspiracy theory,
>
> Chris, please provide the Message-ID of the article in THIS message
> thread in which you read a statement from me proclaiming a "conspiracy
> theory." You're inference of my statements belongs to you; please
> don't attribute it to me.
>
> >you simply revert to ad hominem attacks against George Bush.
>
> Please also provide the Message-ID of the article in THIS message
> thread in which you inferred my statements to be "ad hominem attacks
> against George Bush."
>
> Please also respond to my clarification of your misstatement about Mr.
> Moore's movie containing a falsehood regarding the existence of a
> pipeline through Afghanistan in Message-ID:
> >.

I see. Calling him a drug smuggler more interested in his golf swing than in
doing his job is not an ad hominem attack? Tell me, do you have any evidence
that this is so?

[C J Campbell]

"Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
news:BbdJc.89983$Oq2.82226@attbi_s52...
> >
> > Well, Mr. Pot, still wanting to call the kettle black.
>
> What you describe as my world is indeed every bit as outlandish as your
> world.
>
> The problem with your comparison, though, is that what I refer to as "your
> world" consists of things you actually say (e.g. that Rep. McDermott
> committed treason), whereas the views you attribute to me resemble nothing
> I've ever said.
>
> But that's the salient characteristic of your world: no grounding in
reality
> is required for attributing bizarre beliefs and attitudes to your
opponents.
>

Gosh, I made him so mad he is beginning to stutter. :-)

I am still waiting for the actual quotes and verifiable documentation you
said you were going to post. A single statement where McDermott even mildly
criticizes Hussein would be a start.

Meanwhile, since you asked for quotes and documentation, I suppose I should
tell you that the material in my post is largely taken from other material
which does consist mostly of quotes and documentation.

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

If this report has errors I would enjoy reading about them. I suspect,
though, that you will simply toss it off as biased right-wing extremism and
refuse to address any of its points.

As for the latest from Baghdad Jim, see

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/jamieson/153469_robert22.html

As for my living in a fantasy world, you are the one defending the idea that
the whole Iraq war was based on a conspiracy between Bush, al Qaeda, and the
Saudi government to control a non-existent pipeline in Afghanistan. Don't
deny it; you said that my assertions that there was no such conspiracy were
a fantasy, which means you believe that there was such a conspiracy.

As for Baghdad Jim's treason, I might point you to

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/georgewill/gw20021001.shtml

I think the comparison with Lord Haw Haw is very apt.

McDermott took bribes from the Hussein regime:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/903913/posts

Here is a tape of Baghdad Jim's outrageous remarks:

http://www.usefulwork.com/shark/archives/001348.html

[Gary Drescher]

> I am still waiting for the actual quotes and verifiable documentation you
> said you were going to post.

Then it has escaped your attention that I tracked down and documented the
McDermott statement that the right wing has absurdly mischaracterized as
endorsing "Saddam's trustworthiness".

> A single statement where McDermott even mildly
> criticizes Hussein would be a start.

Oh for goodness' sake, CJ. In a speech just a few weeks ago, McDermott
referred to Hussein as a "thug"
(http://www.house.gov/mcdermott/sp040618a.shtml ).

> As for Baghdad Jim's treason, I might point you to
> http://www.townhall.com/columnists/georgewill/gw20021001.shtml

You seem not to have noticed that that article's ascription to McDermott of
the claim that "Americans should take Saddam Hussein at his word" is
precisely the dishonest paraphrase of the dishonestly truncated quote that I
already addressed in my last post! I also documented the ACTUAL McDermott
statement, which of course says no such thing.

> As for my living in a fantasy world, you are the one defending the idea
that
> the whole Iraq war was based on a conspiracy between Bush, al Qaeda, and
the
> Saudi government to control a non-existent pipeline in Afghanistan. Don't
> deny it; you said that my assertions that there was no such conspiracy
were
> a fantasy,

Uh, no I didn't. If I had, you could easily supply a quote.

> which means you believe that there was such a conspiracy.

Fascinating. Because I implied that your expressed world is a fantasy (and
cited a salient example), you conclude that you can legitimately attribute
to me the opposite of every opinion you expressed about anything!

Ironically, your florid sophistry here is a sterling example of how you go
about constructing fantasy versions of your opponents' views.

--Gary

[Gary Drescher]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Gary Drescher" > wrote in message
> news:09dJc.78376$%_6.15146@attbi_s01...
> > What you describe as my world is indeed every bit as outlandish as your
> > world.
> >
> > The problem with your comparison, though, is that what I refer to as
"your
> > world" consists of things you actually say (e.g. that Rep. McDermott
> > committed treason), whereas the views you attribute to me resemble
nothing
> > I've ever said.
>
> Really? Weren't you the one defending Moore's movie? Or do you now deny
it?

Since you ask, I will say now that Moore's movie has many worthwhile aspects
and should be seen.

However, no, I did not previously endorse Moore's film here. If you think
otherwise, please cite a quote.

The closest you'll find is that I mentioned that a Fox News reviewer spoke
favorably of Fahrenheit 9/11. But I had not yet seen the film myself, so I
expressed no opinion agreeing or disagreeing with the reviewer.

> The truth bites, doesn't it? Sorry, if you think Fahrenheit 9/11 has
> anything important to say, then what I said about your fantasies is spot
on.

Because I mentioned a favorable Fox News review of Moore's film, you feel
entitled to attribute to me the entirety of what you believe are the film's
views (which, of course, you have also bizarrely mischaracterized).

Seeing the steps by which you construct your world-view makes it much less
mysterious that the final product turns out as it does.

--Gary

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 22:08:29 -0700, "C J Campbell"
> wrote:

>
>"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:24:45 -0700, "C J Campbell"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Now, since you can't support your conspiracy theory,
>>
>> Chris, please provide the Message-ID of the article in THIS message
>> thread in which you read a statement from me proclaiming a "conspiracy
>> theory." You're inference of my statements belongs to you; please
>> don't attribute it to me.
>>
>> >you simply revert to ad hominem attacks against George Bush.
>>
>> Please also provide the Message-ID of the article in THIS message
>> thread in which you inferred my statements to be "ad hominem attacks
>> against George Bush."
>>
>> Please also respond to my clarification of your misstatement about Mr.
>> Moore's movie containing a falsehood regarding the existence of a
>> pipeline through Afghanistan in Message-ID:
>> >.
>
>I see. Calling him a drug smuggler more interested in his golf swing than in
>doing his job is not an ad hominem attack?

I can see why you failed to provide the Message-IDs, because I did not
call him a drug smuggler. I said Bush looked 'smug', as in 'highly
self satisfied.'

>Tell me, do you have any evidence that this is so?

I have no evidence concerning baby Bush's drug use, but his father's
drug smuggling using military aircraft is a matter of public record:
Iran-Contra Affair.

And this site http://www.lazygranch.com/nosepic.htm shows baby Bush
sticking something up his nose! Very Presidential. :-(

[Matthew P. Cummings]

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 20:16:45 -0500, Chris W wrote:

> to irrational fears of the public that is fostered by the media morons,
> would be any better with someone else in the Whitehouse?

WE know it won't be different with Kerry, but I do like the solution
proposed. It's honest and refreshing and does seem like it stands a
chance of working.

Then again, the public apathy is such that they probably could care less
and there aren't enough pilots left after that to affect a change, so I
guess we'll never win until we have one world government...

Here's what I did do however, when the various law enforcement agencies
call up for donations I explain to them that my money I would have sent to
them is now being sent to AOPA to aid in the fight for our survival now
that we have these silly TFR's and other stupid rules.

[G. Burkhart]

http://www.jibjab.com/thisland.html

Your choice...

[Neil Gould]

Recently, Matthew P. Cummings > posted:
>
> Here's what I did do however, when the various law enforcement
> agencies call up for donations I explain to them that my money I
> would have sent to them is now being sent to AOPA to aid in the fight
> for our survival now that we have these silly TFR's and other stupid
> rules.
>
What a great suggestion! Unfortunately, I doubt that the fund raisers that
the law enforcement agencies employ have any idea what AOPA or TFRs are,
so I don't think the message gets passed on.

Neil

[DanH]

C J Campbell wrote:
>
[snip]
> Democrats! Here is your chance to so embarrass the Bush administration that
> it will fall almost immediately! Each of you take your plane and
> 'accidentally' fly it into the ADIZ. Not all at once; it has to look random.
> Be sure to take your families with you. Then, when you get shot down, the
> Bush administration will get a black eye from 'killing innocent women and
> children.' The Kerry campaign will have a field day criticizing 'the
> reckless behavior of the Bush administration.' There will be Congressional
> investigations, independent prosecutors, maybe even impeachment proceedings.
> The fact that all the people killed are Democrats will make it look like
> some kind of evil Republican conspiracy. It might even mean the end of the
> Republican Party as we know it.
[snip]


What a great idea! As soon as all those who are against us have taken
themselves and their families across the ADIZ, we will finally have
peace. At last our land will only have correctly educated, like-minded
people from Sea to God Blessed Shining Sea.

Your subject line says it all: this truly will be the Final Solution.
Way to go CJ!!!

All we have left is fear. Let's embrace it all the way to the firey
end!

[C J Campbell]

"DanH" > wrote in message
...
> C J Campbell wrote:
> >
> [snip]
> > Democrats! Here is your chance to so embarrass the Bush administration
that
> > it will fall almost immediately! Each of you take your plane and
> > 'accidentally' fly it into the ADIZ. Not all at once; it has to look
random.
> > Be sure to take your families with you. Then, when you get shot down,
the
> > Bush administration will get a black eye from 'killing innocent women
and
> > children.' The Kerry campaign will have a field day criticizing 'the
> > reckless behavior of the Bush administration.' There will be
Congressional
> > investigations, independent prosecutors, maybe even impeachment
proceedings.
> > The fact that all the people killed are Democrats will make it look like
> > some kind of evil Republican conspiracy. It might even mean the end of
the
> > Republican Party as we know it.
> [snip]
>
>
> What a great idea! As soon as all those who are against us have taken
> themselves and their families across the ADIZ, we will finally have
> peace. At last our land will only have correctly educated, like-minded
> people from Sea to God Blessed Shining Sea.
>
> Your subject line says it all: this truly will be the Final Solution.
> Way to go CJ!!!
>
> All we have left is fear. Let's embrace it all the way to the firey
> end!

No, I don't care much for fear. Let the Democrats keep that.