Why are airplanes white?

[gatt]

Here in Oregon, where there is often white overcast and snow in the
mountains in the winter, there's a lot of white. It seems to me that
painting your aircraft white is akin to camoflage. Wouldn't it be better if
airplanes were missile red, cub yellow, construction orange or some other
extremely-visible color?

Once over Estacada while I was soloing toward my private ticket I saw a
camoflaged ultralight puttering along near the airfield over a forest. One
has to wonder: what completely ignorant A-HOLE makes his aircraft
deliberately difficult to see, and then flies into airspace regularly used
by student pilots? That's suicidal, but I digress:

White is a poor color for aircraft because it's hard to see except against
blue sky. Is there a particular reason it's so popular?

-c

[Nathan Gilliatt]

In article >,
"gatt" > wrote:


> White is a poor color for aircraft because it's hard to see except against
> blue sky. Is there a particular reason it's so popular?

My guesses? Lower solar heating than a dark color, and it works with
every accent color you might choose.

I like the bright colors, too, though.

- Nathan

[Bob Gardner]

Ever see a production line? When the finished airframes come to the paint
booth, it is convenient, easy, and efficient to use just one color as a base
color and then apply the trim paint separately. If the factory decided that
all of their airplanes should be blue, there would be a huge outcry (or,
more likely, a decrease in sales) because owners like contrasting trim and
blue limits their options.

Having done my share of search and rescue missions in the Cascades and the
Coast Range, I like the contrast between white airplanes and green trees. If
anyone wants to paint an airplane orange, red, or yellow they have every
right to do so.

I have almost run into a black Mooney, however, because I couldn't see it
against a forest background.

Bob Gardner



"gatt" > wrote in message
...
>
> Here in Oregon, where there is often white overcast and snow in the
> mountains in the winter, there's a lot of white. It seems to me that
> painting your aircraft white is akin to camoflage. Wouldn't it be better
if
> airplanes were missile red, cub yellow, construction orange or some other
> extremely-visible color?
>
> Once over Estacada while I was soloing toward my private ticket I saw a
> camoflaged ultralight puttering along near the airfield over a forest.
One
> has to wonder: what completely ignorant A-HOLE makes his aircraft
> deliberately difficult to see, and then flies into airspace regularly used
> by student pilots? That's suicidal, but I digress:
>
> White is a poor color for aircraft because it's hard to see except against
> blue sky. Is there a particular reason it's so popular?
>
> -c
>
>

[Bill Denton]

I guess things have changed, but most light GA manufacturers now allow you
to pick both your base and trim colors from a fairly decent spectrum to give
you a more-or-less "custom" paint scheme...



"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
...
> Ever see a production line? When the finished airframes come to the paint
> booth, it is convenient, easy, and efficient to use just one color as a
base
> color and then apply the trim paint separately. If the factory decided
that
> all of their airplanes should be blue, there would be a huge outcry (or,
> more likely, a decrease in sales) because owners like contrasting trim and
> blue limits their options.
>
> Having done my share of search and rescue missions in the Cascades and the
> Coast Range, I like the contrast between white airplanes and green trees.
If
> anyone wants to paint an airplane orange, red, or yellow they have every
> right to do so.
>
> I have almost run into a black Mooney, however, because I couldn't see it
> against a forest background.
>
> Bob Gardner
>
>
>
> "gatt" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Here in Oregon, where there is often white overcast and snow in the
> > mountains in the winter, there's a lot of white. It seems to me that
> > painting your aircraft white is akin to camoflage. Wouldn't it be better
> if
> > airplanes were missile red, cub yellow, construction orange or some
other
> > extremely-visible color?
> >
> > Once over Estacada while I was soloing toward my private ticket I saw a
> > camoflaged ultralight puttering along near the airfield over a forest.
> One
> > has to wonder: what completely ignorant A-HOLE makes his aircraft
> > deliberately difficult to see, and then flies into airspace regularly
used
> > by student pilots? That's suicidal, but I digress:
> >
> > White is a poor color for aircraft because it's hard to see except
against
> > blue sky. Is there a particular reason it's so popular?
> >
> > -c
> >
> >
>
>

[NW_PILOT]

Yes, but back in the 60's & 70's standard GA Aircraft were $7k to $15k today
they are $200k+ I would expect to get to chouse my color for near a quarter
million dollars.


"Bill Denton" > wrote in message
...
> I guess things have changed, but most light GA manufacturers now allow you
> to pick both your base and trim colors from a fairly decent spectrum to
give
> you a more-or-less "custom" paint scheme...
>
>
>
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Ever see a production line? When the finished airframes come to the
paint
> > booth, it is convenient, easy, and efficient to use just one color as a
> base
> > color and then apply the trim paint separately. If the factory decided
> that
> > all of their airplanes should be blue, there would be a huge outcry (or,
> > more likely, a decrease in sales) because owners like contrasting trim
and
> > blue limits their options.
> >
> > Having done my share of search and rescue missions in the Cascades and
the
> > Coast Range, I like the contrast between white airplanes and green
trees.
> If
> > anyone wants to paint an airplane orange, red, or yellow they have every
> > right to do so.
> >
> > I have almost run into a black Mooney, however, because I couldn't see
it
> > against a forest background.
> >
> > Bob Gardner
> >
> >
> >
> > "gatt" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > Here in Oregon, where there is often white overcast and snow in the
> > > mountains in the winter, there's a lot of white. It seems to me that
> > > painting your aircraft white is akin to camoflage. Wouldn't it be
better
> > if
> > > airplanes were missile red, cub yellow, construction orange or some
> other
> > > extremely-visible color?
> > >
> > > Once over Estacada while I was soloing toward my private ticket I saw
a
> > > camoflaged ultralight puttering along near the airfield over a forest.
> > One
> > > has to wonder: what completely ignorant A-HOLE makes his aircraft
> > > deliberately difficult to see, and then flies into airspace regularly
> used
> > > by student pilots? That's suicidal, but I digress:
> > >
> > > White is a poor color for aircraft because it's hard to see except
> against
> > > blue sky. Is there a particular reason it's so popular?
> > >
> > > -c
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[CB]

White is the best colour for composites because of the thermal effects of
dark colours.
white keeps the composite just that bit cooler.

"gatt" > wrote in message
...
>
> Here in Oregon, where there is often white overcast and snow in the
> mountains in the winter, there's a lot of white. It seems to me that
> painting your aircraft white is akin to camoflage. Wouldn't it be better
if
> airplanes were missile red, cub yellow, construction orange or some other
> extremely-visible color?
>
> Once over Estacada while I was soloing toward my private ticket I saw a
> camoflaged ultralight puttering along near the airfield over a forest.
One
> has to wonder: what completely ignorant A-HOLE makes his aircraft
> deliberately difficult to see, and then flies into airspace regularly used
> by student pilots? That's suicidal, but I digress:
>
> White is a poor color for aircraft because it's hard to see except against
> blue sky. Is there a particular reason it's so popular?
>
> -c
>
>

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:42:00 -0700, "gatt"
> wrote:

>One
>has to wonder: what completely ignorant A-HOLE makes his aircraft
>deliberately difficult to see, and then flies into airspace regularly used
>by student pilots?

Ummmm.. The USAF?

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=GIGX6.550%24c7.143669%40typhoon.we.rr.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fas_q%3Df16%2520cessna%26safe%3Dimages%26i e%3DUTF-8%26as_ugroup%3Drec.aviation.military%26as_uauthor s%3Dlarry%2520Dighera%26lr%3D%26hl%3Den

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 23:46:45 +0100, "CB" >
wrote:

>white keeps the composite just that bit cooler.

Significantly cooler actually.

[Bob Gardner]

Gotta admit that it has been awhile, but I have visited the New Piper,
KingAir, and Katana factories and every plane came out of the paint shop
basic white. But I have to agree with the comment that at present prices the
purchaser has more leverage.

Bob Gardner

"Bill Denton" > wrote in message
...
> I guess things have changed, but most light GA manufacturers now allow you
> to pick both your base and trim colors from a fairly decent spectrum to
give
> you a more-or-less "custom" paint scheme...
>
>
>
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Ever see a production line? When the finished airframes come to the
paint
> > booth, it is convenient, easy, and efficient to use just one color as a
> base
> > color and then apply the trim paint separately. If the factory decided
> that
> > all of their airplanes should be blue, there would be a huge outcry (or,
> > more likely, a decrease in sales) because owners like contrasting trim
and
> > blue limits their options.
> >
> > Having done my share of search and rescue missions in the Cascades and
the
> > Coast Range, I like the contrast between white airplanes and green
trees.
> If
> > anyone wants to paint an airplane orange, red, or yellow they have every
> > right to do so.
> >
> > I have almost run into a black Mooney, however, because I couldn't see
it
> > against a forest background.
> >
> > Bob Gardner
> >
> >
> >
> > "gatt" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > Here in Oregon, where there is often white overcast and snow in the
> > > mountains in the winter, there's a lot of white. It seems to me that
> > > painting your aircraft white is akin to camoflage. Wouldn't it be
better
> > if
> > > airplanes were missile red, cub yellow, construction orange or some
> other
> > > extremely-visible color?
> > >
> > > Once over Estacada while I was soloing toward my private ticket I saw
a
> > > camoflaged ultralight puttering along near the airfield over a forest.
> > One
> > > has to wonder: what completely ignorant A-HOLE makes his aircraft
> > > deliberately difficult to see, and then flies into airspace regularly
> used
> > > by student pilots? That's suicidal, but I digress:
> > >
> > > White is a poor color for aircraft because it's hard to see except
> against
> > > blue sky. Is there a particular reason it's so popular?
> > >
> > > -c
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[G.R. Patterson III]

Bill Denton wrote:
>
> I guess things have changed, but most light GA manufacturers now allow you
> to pick both your base and trim colors from a fairly decent spectrum to give
> you a more-or-less "custom" paint scheme...

Probably true of most, but Maule does.

George Patterson
In Idaho, tossing a rattlesnake into a crowded room is felony assault.
In Tennessee, it's evangelism.

[Rick Durden]

Customer demand. Aircraft manufacturers have offered an incredible
number of colors and combinations over the years. In the '30s all
over yellow with a black lightning bolt was hugely popular with the
Aeronca C-2 and C-3, so much so that Piper copied it exactly on the
Cub line. The Aeronca "Bathtub" was forgotten while its paint color
and scheme became widely known as "Cub yellow".

In the '60s-'80s Cessna would reverse its paint scheme as an option,
with the accent color being the base and the white being the accent.
It was done from time to time, mostly on airplanes going into Alaska
or northern Canada, but it wasn't very popular. If you saw 200
airplanes parked on the ramp at Cessna in Wichita or at Strother
Field, maybe one or two would have the reversed paint scheme.

Bare aluminum was popular on and off in the '40s and '50s, but
horribly hard to care for and it faded away. In the '50s many of
Cessna's paint schemes were overall bare aluminum with one or two
accent colors.

White just won out over the years as a base color.

You're right, for visibility things could be better. At one time the
CAA toyed with requiring some amount of international orange on all
paint jobs. It came to naught. At least few people paint airplanes
with the stealth paint job United Airlines used for quite a while
(it's still on some of their airplanes), those airplanes completely
disappear at dawn and dusk.

All the best,
Rick

"gatt" > wrote in message >...
> Here in Oregon, where there is often white overcast and snow in the
> mountains in the winter, there's a lot of white. It seems to me that
> painting your aircraft white is akin to camoflage. Wouldn't it be better if
> airplanes were missile red, cub yellow, construction orange or some other
> extremely-visible color?
>
> Once over Estacada while I was soloing toward my private ticket I saw a
> camoflaged ultralight puttering along near the airfield over a forest. One
> has to wonder: what completely ignorant A-HOLE makes his aircraft
> deliberately difficult to see, and then flies into airspace regularly used
> by student pilots? That's suicidal, but I digress:
>
> White is a poor color for aircraft because it's hard to see except against
> blue sky. Is there a particular reason it's so popular?
>
> -c

[Icebound]

"gatt" > wrote in message
...
>
> ...snip...
> White is a poor color for aircraft because it's hard to see except against
> blue sky. Is there a particular reason it's so popular?
>
> -c


Probably withstands UV discoloration better than any other color.

[Don Hammer]

The word in most cases is tradition. Back in the days of #2 cotton,
we painted the fabric with silver dope and put white over that. It
made it last longer, so, we still paint corporate jets white - go
figure.

I don't know about the newer composite aircraft, but most fiberglass
gliders are restricted by their type certificates on how much and
where you can put other colors so you don't become Icarus in the
bright summer sun.

[C J Campbell]

It keeps the airplane and the avionics and people inside it cooler. It is
also reasonably visible under most conditions. If you wanted maximum
visibility on the ground, then you would paint the airplane the same color
as those blue tarps, but that might not work so well in the air.

[Cub Driver]

Hampton NH airport is surrounded by pine trees. For years we had a J-3
painted in Grasshopper colors; you just couldn't see it against the
ground when it was in the pattern and you were overhead.

Finally it dinged its wing, and the airport put a white "invasion
stripe" on that wing. What a difference!

A while later it got dinged again. We were all sorry that it wasn't
the other wing, so it would have two invasion stripes, but it remained
a one-striper till it got sold down the river.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[Cub Driver]

>White just won out over the years as a base color.

A skipper I know is fond of saying: "There are only two colors for a
boat, and what damnfool would paint a boat black?"

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[Iain Wilson]

>
> White is a poor color for aircraft because it's hard to see except against
> blue sky. Is there a particular reason it's so popular?
>
> -c
>
>

White's the cheapest paint.

Iain

[Gene Seibel]

"gatt" > wrote in message >...
> Here in Oregon, where there is often white overcast and snow in the
> mountains in the winter, there's a lot of white.

Here in the Midwest we have blue skies and green vegitation. White
shows up quite well.
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

[Rick Durden]

Don Hammer > wrote in message >...
> The word in most cases is tradition. Back in the days of #2 cotton,
> we painted the fabric with silver dope and put white over that. It
> made it last longer, so, we still paint corporate jets white - go
> figure.
>
> I don't know about the newer composite aircraft, but most fiberglass
> gliders are restricted by their type certificates on how much and
> where you can put other colors so you don't become Icarus in the
> bright summer sun.

Don,

If you look at the aircraft of the '20s the colors varied hugely.
When the small, horizontally opposed engines were developed, allowing
for much cheaper airplanes, pioneered by Aeronca, the paint schemes
got simpler (apparently in trying to keep costs down), with one
primary color...which for some time was yellow. During the post WWII
boom Piper was putting out yellow and black airplanes, Cessna had
either bare metal or white as the base, Globe had bare metal as did
Beech, then white started to creep in to a greater and greater extent.

All the best,
Rick

[gatt]

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message

> Having done my share of search and rescue missions in the Cascades and the
> Coast Range, I like the contrast between white airplanes and green trees.

Interesting. So it's fairly visible against a forest, although I imagine
snow might be an issue.



-c

[gatt]

"NW_PILOT" > wrote in message news:o4udnex4haNuKGjdRVn-

> Yes, but back in the 60's & 70's standard GA Aircraft were $7k to $15k
today

*thrash*

TIME MACHINE! TIME MACHIIIIINE!

(Art Lacey got his B-17 from the government for $5000 after WWII, wrecked it
landing, and they gave him another one.)

-c

[gatt]

"CB" > wrote in message

> White is the best colour for composites because of the thermal effects of
> dark colours. white keeps the composite just that bit cooler.

Makes sense.

-c

[gatt]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:42:00 -0700, "gatt"
> > wrote:
>
> >One
> >has to wonder: what completely ignorant A-HOLE makes his aircraft
> >deliberately difficult to see, and then flies into airspace regularly
used
> >by student pilots?
>
> Ummmm.. The USAF?

USAF jets are a little easier to spot than a camoflage ultralight at 1,200'
AGL five or ten miles out of Class C and Class D airspace though.

-c

[gatt]

"Gene Seibel" > wrote in message
om...
> "gatt" > wrote in message
>...
> > Here in Oregon, where there is often white overcast and snow in the
> > mountains in the winter, there's a lot of white.
>
> Here in the Midwest we have blue skies and green vegitation. White
> shows up quite well.

These are all great answers and thoroughly convincing as to why white is
probably the best overall color. If I was painting an airplane, I'd include
a stripe or something that would stand out against terrain. I like the
previous post about "invasion stripes." ANY EXCUSE TO PUT INVASION STRIPES
ON YOUR AIRPLANE IS A GOOD ONE! :>

One of the '152s I fly went from yellow on white to candy apple red and gold
on white, with red wingtips and tail. It's hilarious, but pretty. The owner
decided he wanted a candy apple red airplane. Very easy to see now.

-c

[gatt]

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message

> Finally it dinged its wing, and the airport put a white "invasion
> stripe" on that wing. What a difference!

Now that's what I'm talking about! White is fine but a little unnatural
color as a stripe or secondary color might make the aircraft more visible.

-c

[Bob Martin]

> Here in Oregon, where there is often white overcast and snow in the
> mountains in the winter, there's a lot of white. It seems to me that
> painting your aircraft white is akin to camoflage. Wouldn't it be better
if
> airplanes were missile red, cub yellow, construction orange or some other
> extremely-visible color?

Perhaps a better question is, why are most homebuilts white with trim? I
know the composite aircraft basically require it, but I see so many RV's out
there in the same boring-white-with-trim... standardization certainly isn't
an issue with them...

However, there's a G-200 out there with that color-changing paint...
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/387332/M/

[Brian Burger]

On Fri, 16 Jul 2004, Bob Martin wrote:

> However, there's a G-200 out there with that color-changing paint...
> http://www.airliners.net/open.file/387332/M/

Very cool. Next time on of our Club's Cessnas comes due for a repaint, I'm
going to lobby hard to get this sort of paintjob on it!

Why should bizjets have all the fun? :)

Brian.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Brian Burger wrote:
>
> Very cool. Next time on of our Club's Cessnas comes due for a repaint, I'm
> going to lobby hard to get this sort of paintjob on it!

Better check out the price on that stuff first. I hear it's pretty expensive.

George Patterson
In Idaho, tossing a rattlesnake into a crowded room is felony assault.
In Tennessee, it's evangelism.

[Brian Burger]

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004, G.R. Patterson III wrote:

>
>
> Brian Burger wrote:
> >
> > Very cool. Next time on of our Club's Cessnas comes due for a repaint, I'm
> > going to lobby hard to get this sort of paintjob on it!
>
> Better check out the price on that stuff first. I hear it's pretty expensive.

<grin> Yes, probably. I'm sure that the next Club paintjob will be another
white-and-coloured-bits standard Cessna job, just like the two we had done
three or four years ago...

Still, a shimmery multi-colour 172 would be really, really cool!

Brian.

[White Raven]

>>white keeps the composite just that bit cooler.
>
> Significantly cooler actually.

So much so, that some composites cannot be painted anything but white
without compromising structural safety; at least, this used to be the
case. I believe newer composites are more tolerant of heat.

---
When the weight of the paperwork equals the weight of the plane, the
plane will fly.
-- Donald Douglas

[Joe Maj]

Color shifting paint is $32 per oz.

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message >
> Better check out the price on that stuff first. I hear it's pretty expensive.