Cost splitting for private flight?

[aaronw]

Hi all:

I have a question about cost splitting for a flight by me, with only a
private certificate (in a rented plane).

It's fairly well known at work that I do have my certificate and I'll
go up on sightseeing flights with my friends if they're interested
(always looking for an excuse to go to a new airport).

On Friday, someone was mentioning that they were going to need to rent
a car one way to go down to Norfolk to pick up their car. Hearing
this, I said 'Well, I can just fly you down there myself.. I've been
wanting to check Norfolk off my 'list' of airports to go to'

And so I flew him down and then flew back by myself (in the
ever-present DC area summer haze). Total time was about 3 hours,
about 1.5 each way.

He has volunteered to give me some money to defray costs. Is he
allowed to pay up to half of the whole flight, half just for the time
he was in the airplane, or none?

I think half just for the time he was in the airplane, but I'd just
like to see how my opinions jibe with that of the peanut gallery here.

Thanks,

aw

[TripFarmer]

Whatever you do take cash and don't give a receipt. <grin>


Trip

In article >, says...
>
> Hi all:
>
>I have a question about cost splitting for a flight by me, with only a
>private certificate (in a rented plane).
>
>It's fairly well known at work that I do have my certificate and I'll
>go up on sightseeing flights with my friends if they're interested
>(always looking for an excuse to go to a new airport).
>
>On Friday, someone was mentioning that they were going to need to rent
>a car one way to go down to Norfolk to pick up their car. Hearing
>this, I said 'Well, I can just fly you down there myself.. I've been
>wanting to check Norfolk off my 'list' of airports to go to'
>
>And so I flew him down and then flew back by myself (in the
>ever-present DC area summer haze). Total time was about 3 hours,
>about 1.5 each way.
>
>He has volunteered to give me some money to defray costs. Is he
>allowed to pay up to half of the whole flight, half just for the time
>he was in the airplane, or none?
>
>I think half just for the time he was in the airplane, but I'd just
>like to see how my opinions jibe with that of the peanut gallery here.
>
>Thanks,
>
>aw

[Roger Long]

In the unlikely event that a flight is questioned by the FAA, they will base
their findings largely on what the passenger perceives. If your passenger
believes (or mistakenly says because he doesn't understand the issues) that
the flight only took place because he wanted to go somewhere, they could
bust you. If you both can establish a shared purpose, or you can establish
that you would have gone anyway for your own reasons and your passenger just
tagged along, the passenger can pay for half of the direct costs (or one
third if there are three in the plane, etc.) These costs can not include
insurance, depreciation, maintenance, etc. and the pilot must pay his share
as well.

The key is to be sure your passengers know what to say, i.e. "He was coming
down and said I could come."; Not, "I asked him to fly me down and he
agreed." It would be hard to explain your passenger paying for part of a leg
he was not on.

These questions often generate long threads because there is a big
disconnect between the narrow legality, common sense, and real world
enforcement. It is technically a violation for a non-commercial pilot to
move a friend's airplane to another airport. The free flight time can be
considered compensation because it could be valuable in getting an advanced
rating or a flying job.

I asked my local FSDO about this and they said, "That's nuts. Where did you
ever hear anything as wacky as that?" I faxed them the cite and the opinion
letter and they called back to say that I was right. They also said that
they were far too busy and reasonable to every worry about something like
that.

However, if it came to the FAA's attention that you had "friends" all over
the region and were wracking up 50 - 100 hours a month of free time moving
airplanes while you were clearly building time to go for a commercial
license, they might yank your chain.

The narrow interpretations are often pulled out when the FAA has other
reasons for trying to shut someone down on the "charging Al Capone with tax
evasion" principle.

If you are an otherwise low profile pilot, you can get away with a lot. If a
cute interpretation of the rules is making your flying substantially less
expensive, you are probably over the line and could have a problem.

Be wary about flying into big events like the Super Bowl. There are often
random ramp checks to rope in pilots trying to make a quick buck. If you
haven't briefed your passengers on what to say, you could get into trouble
on an otherwise legit flight.


--

Roger Long

[John T]

Roger Long wrote:
>
> Be wary about flying into big events like the Super Bowl. There are
> often random ramp checks to rope in pilots trying to make a quick
> buck. If you haven't briefed your passengers on what to say, you
> could get into trouble on an otherwise legit flight.

This should only be an issue if the pilot is the only one without a
ticket... :)

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
____________________

[G.R. Patterson III]

aaronw wrote:
>
> I think half just for the time he was in the airplane, but I'd just
> like to see how my opinions jibe with that of the peanut gallery here.

I agree with you.

George Patterson
In Idaho, tossing a rattlesnake into a crowded room is felony assault.
In Tennessee, it's evangelism.

[Andrew Sarangan]

"Roger Long" > wrote in
:

> In the unlikely event that a flight is questioned by the FAA, they
> will base their findings largely on what the passenger perceives. If
> your passenger believes (or mistakenly says because he doesn't
> understand the issues) that the flight only took place because he
> wanted to go somewhere, they could bust you. If you both can establish
> a shared purpose, or you can establish that you would have gone anyway
> for your own reasons and your passenger just tagged along, the
> passenger can pay for half of the direct costs (or one third if there
> are three in the plane, etc.) These costs can not include insurance,
> depreciation, maintenance, etc. and the pilot must pay his share as
> well.
>
> The key is to be sure your passengers know what to say, i.e. "He was
> coming down and said I could come."; Not, "I asked him to fly me down
> and he agreed." It would be hard to explain your passenger paying for
> part of a leg he was not on.
>
> These questions often generate long threads because there is a big
> disconnect between the narrow legality, common sense, and real world
> enforcement. It is technically a violation for a non-commercial pilot
> to move a friend's airplane to another airport. The free flight time
> can be considered compensation because it could be valuable in getting
> an advanced rating or a flying job.
>
> I asked my local FSDO about this and they said, "That's nuts. Where
> did you ever hear anything as wacky as that?" I faxed them the cite
> and the opinion letter and they called back to say that I was right.
> They also said that they were far too busy and reasonable to every
> worry about something like that.
>
> However, if it came to the FAA's attention that you had "friends" all
> over the region and were wracking up 50 - 100 hours a month of free
> time moving airplanes while you were clearly building time to go for a
> commercial license, they might yank your chain.


The key is, as you mentioned, 'wracking up 50 - 100 hours a month' and
logging them for the purpose of an advanced rating. If you fly once a
year, and don't even bother to log that flight, I doubt anything could
happen to you.