Re: Getting unlost (was Re: Training Q - Is this appropriate)

[Pete Desautelle]

Alan-

I totally agree with you, even to a larger scale. Instructors as of late
(and partially driven by pressure from students) are not teaching these
"building block" fundamental skills which are essential before tackling
radio navigation. I think its a shame. Basic pilotage is so essential that
it absolutely has to be taught from the beginning. As I recall, it is also
still a part of the Practical Test Standards.

Another place I see this happening is the IFR instruction of NDB approaches.
Most students do not fly them for practice because they wont have to fly it
in a practical test if the ADF box is placarded INOP (which they
conveniently do before the test). The rationale behind this is (a) they are
"too difficult" and (b) the ADF navaids are being removed in the future so
why learn something like it. IMO, its a shame b/c it teaches students a lot
in terms of orientation, building block skills, and basic airmanship, etc.



"Alan Gerber" > wrote in message
...
> In rec.aviation.student vincent p. norris > wrote:
> > I'm not an instructor, but it's my impression that students are no
> > longer taught dead reckoning or pilotage.
>
> I don't know about other students, but I'm certaily learning about them.
> We're just starting cross-countries, and we're starting with pilotage.
>
> My CFI specifically told me we're not even going to use VORs at first, to
> make sure I actually look outside.
>
> --
> Alan Gerber
> gerber AT panix DOT com

[Walter Ellison]

Pilotage and ded reckoning have always been emphasized by my CFI's and when
I had an electrical failure in a Sundowner in IMC I was glad that it had
been so emphasized. Another pilot and I had taken a Saturday trip. When we
were returning the electrical bus failed. After flying triangles for a few
minutes, I climbed on top of a solid cloud layer, flew northeast toward the
front (we had taken the time to understand the weather picture before we
took off) where we found broken and then scattered clouds, descended and,
with a ded reckoning guesstimate of where we were and use of our VFR charts
and pilotage, navigated to the Morristown NJ airport and landed safely.

Frankly, this line of comments concerns me.

Walt Ellison, CP-AS/MEL-I

"Alan Gerber" > wrote in message
...
> In rec.aviation.student vincent p. norris > wrote:
> > I'm not an instructor, but it's my impression that students are no
> > longer taught dead reckoning or pilotage.
>
> I don't know about other students, but I'm certaily learning about them.
> We're just starting cross-countries, and we're starting with pilotage.
>
> My CFI specifically told me we're not even going to use VORs at first, to
> make sure I actually look outside.
>
> --
> Alan Gerber
> gerber AT panix DOT com

[David Cartwright]

"CB" > wrote in message
...
>> I don't know about other students, but I'm certaily learning about them.
>> We're just starting cross-countries, and we're starting with pilotage.

Quite right too. Radio nav aids are useful when you're flying VFR, but even
when I'm flying along a radial I like to know where I am, partly out of
interest (helps you get to know useful visual features for future VFR
flights) and partly because if the engine quits it's nice to be able to tell
ATC that you're doing a forced landing "two miles east of XX" instead of
"28.3DME on radial XXX from VOR YYY".

Looking out of the window is also useful in our club C152 which, I'm told (I
don't fly it) has radio nav aids that are so poor, a magnetised pin dangling
on a bit of string would be more use.

D.

[David Cartwright]

"Rob Perkins" > wrote in message
...
> I found myself disoriented and lost over my own training practice area
> just last week. It took me a minute to triangulate rivers I could see
> with the chart.

You have to be careful around Norfolk, where I fly a lot, if you're using
disused airfields as sanity checks of your course. Last Saturday is a
classic example - I had to double-check that Foulsham was really Foulsham,
and not Oulton.

(Incidentally, you can tell someone who spends a lot of time instructing in
Norfolk; our CFI knows each disused airfield in the area by the patterns of
the chicken sheds on the runways ...).

D.

[Paul Sengupta]

"David Cartwright" > wrote in message
...
> You have to be careful around Norfolk, where I fly a lot, if you're using
> disused airfields as sanity checks of your course. Last Saturday is a
> classic example - I had to double-check that Foulsham was really Foulsham,
> and not Oulton.

Is that where Oulton Park is? Doesn't that have a racetrack on it?
Or are they different places?

Paul

[David Cartwright]

"Paul Sengupta" > wrote in message
...
> Is that where Oulton Park is? Doesn't that have a racetrack on it?
> Or are they different places?

Nah, Oulton Park is in the Cheshire area, I believe. To add to the confusion
there's the Oulton airfield I mentioned, which is just west of Norwich, then
there's Oulton Broad and its associated village which are over toward
Lowestoft.

D.