Re: Aero club rates

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Andrew Gideon > said:
>BTW, isn't 60 people and 4 airplanes tight? We've 45 and 4, and we're
>always looking at how to improve "availability".

We're 52 and 5 right now, and trying to get an airplane on a summer
weekend is an exercise in pre-planning and hoping the weather works out,
or in being an expert sniper on ScheduleMaster's alerts when somebody
cancels.



--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
If Alan Turing was alive today, the homosexuality
would be OK but he'd be in trouble for codebreaking.
-- Martin Bacon

[Doug]

Maintenance is the one cost that you cannot predict. For a Cessna 172
type aircraft it is $5-$15 per hour. It will be more toward $15 if you
have a lot of instuments and radios as gyros, vacuumn pumps and radios
go out periodically. Don't forget prop/engine reserve at about $10 per
hour. It also depends on how much the plane is flown. The more it is
flown per month the lower the hourly maintenance.

The fixed costs, hangar, insurance, even annual can be predicted
fairly accurately.

And then you have to be able to put $10k into the plane at any random
moment in time due to something big failing, usually the engine, but
also could be an accident. So you need a reserve. Also, although
people rarely consider it, there are instrument, upholstry and paint
reserves, as these eventually need to be redone.

Andrew Gideon > wrote in message e.com>...
> Barry wrote:
>
> > Our club has both dues and hourly rates, but we don't strictly allocate
> > fixed costs to dues - it's based more on what works out overall and what's
> > preceived
> > to be reasonable. We've also found that our maintenance costs per hour
> > depend on hours flown - or I guess you could say that maintenance has a
> > large fixed component that we're unwilling to allocate completely to dues.
>
> Hmm. I don't suppose you've any numbers associated with this?
>
> There is certainly at least one fixed cost maintenance component: the
> annual. Aside from that, though, what? As I understand it - and I'm new
> to all this, so take my understanding with a huge grain of salt - most
> problems in active aircraft occur from use, as opposed to from time.
>
> One other exceptional case is a recently acquired aircraft. Paramus bought
> two about a year ago, and there was a fair bit of money spent on both
> "maintenance" and "upgrades". The upgrades were considered part of the
> capital investment, but the maintenance costs were not. I think that this
> was wrong (some early maintenance should be considered part of the capital
> cost) but we'll know better after a few years of use.
>
> >> Of course, there is the idea that an aircraft not being flown is a waste
> >> of
> >> fixed costs. Is that what you mean?
> >
> > Pretty much. In our system, this shows up as the cost per hour being too
> > high.
>
> In theory, this just shows up for us as too few hours. If the cost per hour
> is high, then there's a separate problem.
>
> Part of the issue in the fixed vs. monthly costs for us is that there's no
> distinction made in the monthy fees between a member that is, or is not,
> qualified to fly a particular aircraft. More, there's no distinction made
> between one that does or does not fly a particular aircraft.
>
> Thus, the choice was made to have those flying the airplane pay for the
> variable costs.
>
> A similar argument could be made that the tach rate should cover *all*
> costs, and I can see the point. But that would make rates less
> predictable, which is considered undesirable.
>
> Funny...when I joined I was far more interested in learning about
> maintenance. But after discussions involving the numbers, I'm finding the
> financial details strangely attractive <grin>.
>
> - Andrew

[Barry]

> Maintenance is the one cost that you cannot predict. For a Cessna 172
> type aircraft it is $5-$15 per hour. It will be more toward $15 if you
> have a lot of instuments and radios as gyros, vacuumn pumps and radios
> go out periodically.

Our flying club has found that for an Archer or Tomahawk we average about
$25/hour, and for an Arrow about $35. This includes the annual (both the
actual inspection and all of the items that require repair) but does not
include avionics, or allowance for engine overhaul reserve. We do a lot of
training in all of the planes, so this probably increases our expenses for
tires, brakes, and landing gear.