Re: OSH '04 -- Best ever?

[Jim Weir]

Comin' home.

Jim



"Rich S." >
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->
->Were you going to OSH or on your way home?
->
->Rich S.
->

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Jack Allison]

> 1. Gail went to Oshkosh in a $50,000 Cessna 182 and returned home in a $450,000
> Greyhound.

Hmmm, sounds like a good ROI to me...then again, turning an airplane
into a bus isn't exactly the right direction :-)

Agreed that the folks at Rawlins are great. Last year, that was our
spot to stay for the night. They'd just re-paved (and added, I think)
to the ramp area. Unfortunately, the construction guys pulled the tie
down anchors a few days prior. It took some time but the guy at La
France rounded up the construction folks and they strung a few cables.
By that time, we'd opted to field test our brand new OSH tie down
anchors (made straight from the website).

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, IA Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jerry Kurata]

Wow!

When did this happen? I probably flew right over the area on Monday Aug 5th
on the way back from OSH.

jerry

"Jim Weir" > wrote in message
...
> Well, kids, I learned a few lessons from this Oshkosh that the previous 31
> hadn't taught me...
>
>
> 1. Gail went to Oshkosh in a $50,000 Cessna 182 and returned home in a
$450,000
> Greyhound.
>
> 2. A cylinder with less than 300 hours on it since the best engine shop
in
> Northern California inspected, overhauled, chromed, then replaced all
moving
> parts with new CAN and WILL crack in two with absolutely no forewarning.
>
> 3. Oil pours out of a cracked cylinder at a fairly rapid rate.
Fortunately,
> the engine shakes so hard that it isn't rocket science to figure that you
have
> to shut the sucker off before all the oil blows out the hole.
>
> 4. Hanna WY may not be the end of the world, but you can see it from
there.
>
> 5. There are no airports on the Continental Divide between Medicine Bow
and
> Rawlins WY, a distance of some 50 miles. Hanna is roughly halfway between
the
> two.
>
> 6. God bless the kids of Hanna, who took the old dirt strip that had been
there
> thirty years ago and maintained it as a mile-long drag strip at 7000 MSL.
The
> cows on the runway are a particularly bucolic touch.
>
> 7. It is possible to do a field removal and replacement of a cylinder
with
> little more than a bent screwdriver and a busted crescent wrench borrowed
from a
> mechanic in Rawlins. (Well, that and cylinder base wrenches and a torque
> wrench...but damned little else.) It takes three full days out in the
field to
> change a jug...one day to pull all the small baffle-induction-exhaust
parts, one
> day to pull the jug itself and take it back to the shop, and one day to
> reinstall a serviceable jug. Some day I'm going to meet the b@$!@&d at
> Continental that designed the pushrod tubes and "discuss" the design with
him.
>
> 8. It makes it a little more difficult when the wind blows at a steady
twenty
> to thirty knots and you are out in the open field for three days doing
this
> operation, but it builds character. You know the work day is over when
the late
> afternoon thunderstorm is bouncing the airplane around to the point where
the
> wrench won't stay on the nut. Besides, on the top of the highest point
for
> twenty miles in any direction in an open field during a thunderstorm is
.... ummm
> ... interesting.
>
> 9. It is also interesting to drive the old airport beater diesel truck
the 40
> miles of mountain roads from Rawlins to Hanna only to find that you left
the
> 7/8" spark plug wrench on the workbench in Rawlins.
>
>
> 10. This world has some absolutely wonderful people in it. In no
particular
> order they are:
>
> Kevin and Roxy Bell, Zacharia and Stephanie. Owners of Hanna
> Unintentional Airport. They came out at least once a day to see if there
was
> anything they could do or help with.
>
> Deputy Sheriff Jack Lowrance (interesting last name, eh? ... aren't
> coincidences God's little jokes?). Drove us from Hanna to Rawlins and
wouldn't
> leave until we had all our stuff arranged and taken care of.
>
> Dwight and ?Bonnie? France, France Flying Service, Rawlins WY. Loaned
> us the airport truck, let us pester the mechanic, ordered our cylinder,
and
> charged us practically nothing for the trouble except the actual cost of
the
> parts.
>
> Bill the Mechanic, FFS, Rawlins WY. Loaned us any tool we wanted, no
> questions asked, let me use the Continental Overhaul manual, and
alternately
> patted me on the back and kicked my butt until the job got done.
>
> Dave Winder, Mechanic In Training, FFS, Rawlins WY. Mechanic in
> training only because he is six months short of the 30 months necessary to
take
> the A&P exam. If anybody in this ng, ANYBODY wants a mechanic that knows
more
> about airplanes than 99% of the mechanics in the world, works his ass off
under
> conditions that most of us would sit around waiting for better times, and
in
> general is one hell of a worker, I'm sure David would appreciate hearing
from
> you. From scratch, Dave and I started at 1 pm to replace the cylinder,
and by 4
> pm we had it run up, cowled, and ready to depart. Remember, this is out
in the
> TALL tules under primitive conditions, with only the tools we remembered
to
> take.
>
>
> If you EVER meet ANY of these folks, I'd appreciate it if you would give
them my
> regards and buy them a beer for me. They are what makes aviation go.
>
>
> Anyway, 2004 was an Oshkosh that will go into my scrapbook for a long,
long
> time.
>
> Good to be back home.
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
> VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
> http://www.rst-engr.com

[Big John]

And saved millions by post war estimates, if an invasion had been
required.

On a cost benifit ratio he ranks pretty high because of the one
mission.

Out of Hospital and recovering from heart work so mostly lurking.

Big John
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 16:47:29 GMT, Martin Hotze >
wrote:

---clip---

He did his job back then. If not he than somebody else would have done
the "job". "He" might have saved your life, but "he" sure destroyed
others'.

f-up2poster, OT.

[Jack]

Thomas Borchert wrote:

> Martin simply pointed out that the two A-boms used in earnest
> so far killed A LOT of people. That seems to be easily forgotten
> by some when the heroes are sung the way they were here.

No one forgets. But neither you nor Martin has shown us why we should
consider the casualties of those two bombs as any more regrettable than
the hundreds of thousands caused by Japanese invasions of their
neighbors. If it required a great many Japanese lives to right the
balance and end the war, then so be it. American lives and Japanese
lives were saved. If that is not enough for you, it is enough for me.

Indeed, the result of the use of the Atom bombs was doubtless to allow a
generation of both Japanese and Americans to be born into this world who
would otherwise have had no fathers. The tool which allows an early end
to a devastating conflict is desirable. The reluctance to fight and win
in as short a time as possible only increases the total of human suffering.

Do not make the mistake of believing that we celebrate the use of the
bombs. War is terrible enough without such purposeful ignorance of it's
true character. We celebrate the dedication of the men who took such a
great burden upon themselves in order to give us victory and a peace to
be shared with both our allies and our former enemies. The most
important thing about Atomic weapons is not so much that they were once
demonstrated, but that their use has since been avoided. To destroy vast
numbers of lives is monstrous whether by bayonet or by bomb, but to
abhor the means of war instead of decrying its causes is foolishness.

Have you considered lately how many of mine you would be willing to
sacrifice in order to save an equal or greater number of your own, and
by what methods you would be willing to make such an exchange? The
subject deserves a great deal more thought than most of us have given it.


Jack

[Thomas Borchert]

Jack,

> But neither you nor Martin has shown us why we should
> consider the casualties of those two bombs as any more regrettable than
> the hundreds of thousands caused by Japanese invasions of their
> neighbors.
>

Neither Martin nor I have asked you to consider that, so why should we
explain WHY you should consider that?

> The
> subject deserves a great deal more thought than most of us have given
it.

I fully agree.

Something you didn't mention in your post is that I think the bombs in
Hiroshima and Nagasaki may well have prevented WW 3, too, since the
"powers that be" (on both sides) would have been much more willing to
press the red button during the height of the cold war had they not fully
seen what their weapons could do.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[John Ousterhout]

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 09:08:28 -0700, Jim Weir > wrote:

>31 July 2004 (Saturday) at approximately 1400MDT the engine said, "I don't like
>you any more." Landed at Hanna Unintentional Drag Strip. Sheriff motored me
>into Rawlins where I bummed a phillips screwdriver and crescent wrench from Bill
>The Mechanic (hell of a nice guy). Took the beater diesel airport truck back
>out to the airplane to prowl around and see what I could find. It got dark
>before I got too far.
>
>Sunday put Gail on the bus at 11 and then motored out to the airplane. Tore off
>the cowling to find out what was wrong. Found a crack in the #3 jug immediately
>(oil all over the place). Tore off all the peripherals (baffling, straps, etc.)
>that you could get with a screwdriver and crescent wrench -literally-. Quit
>during the 1800MDT thunderstorm and went back to the motel.
>
>Monday went out bright and early with cylinder base wrenches and other "real"
>tools and tore off the jug. Brought it back to Rawlins where we measured the
>defect and got on the horn to Firewall Forward in Colorado. They had a used
>serviceable jug and piston/rings that they put on UPS-Next Day. I took a gallon
>of solvent and went back to the field to clean up the oily and greasy small
>parts mess.
>
>Somewhat late Tuesday morning the jug got to Rawlins on the lawnmower.
>David-Mechanic-In-Training and I got to the airplane by 1 and by 5 I departed
>Hanna and had the airplane back in Rawlins for another post-operation
>inspection.
>
>Wednesday morning launched Rawlins, stopped in Elko for fuel, and to Grass
>Valley by mid-afternoon.

Good thing you had an A&P with you. :-)

Welcome back.

- J.O.-

[Tom S.]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Tom S. wrote:
>
>
> >
> > It's questionable that they really learned any lessons at all.
>
> I think they learned. They haven't elected any Hitler types since.
>
No...but I vaguely recall some polls in Germany a few years back that showed
Hitler still had quite a bit of "popularity". I also understand that
neo-fascism and anti-Semitism are becoming a bit of a problem throughout
Europe (again). They may call it by new names, but Communism/Fascism is
definitely NOT dead in Europe

[Rich S.]

"John Ousterhout" wrote in message
>
> Good thing you had an A&P with you. :-)

He didn't need one, JO. He was still 6813' ASL, carrying out emergency
mid-flight repairs.

Rich "Get high in Wyoming" S.

[Jim Weir]

If anybody has access to a topo map of this area and can pick off the eastern
end altitude of this runway, I'd certainly appreciate it. The runway is
approximately 5 miles south of Hanna WY, 2 miles south of the highway junction
of the road to Elk Mountain and the road to Medicine Bow, both of which
intercept I-80 at their southern end.

I'm gonna make those nice folks in Hanna a sign for Hanna Unintentional Airport.


Jim



Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Jim Weir" > wrote in message
...
>
> If anybody has access to a topo map of this area and can pick off the
eastern
> end altitude of this runway, I'd certainly appreciate it. The runway is
> approximately 5 miles south of Hanna WY, 2 miles south of the highway
junction
> of the road to Elk Mountain and the road to Medicine Bow, both of which
> intercept I-80 at their southern end.
>
> I'm gonna make those nice folks in Hanna a sign for Hanna Unintentional
Airport.
>

I don't have a topographic map of this area, but I do have a lot of old
sectionals. Hanna Airport appears on the Cheyenne sectional dated March 12,
1987. The field elevation is shown as 7100'.

[Jon Woellhaf]

Jim,

My Garmin MapSource Topo USA CD shows an "Airport Runway" which would be
identified as 6-24, 1.9 miles southeast of the junction of US 287 and Hwy
72. It's about 3.3 miles southeast of Hanna. The runway crosses the 7087
contour line several times, with the western end right on the line and the
eastern end a little lower. Interpolating, probably half way between 7087
and 7021 or about 7050 feet.

Jon

"Jim Weir" > wrote in message
...
> If anybody has access to a topo map of this area and can pick off the
eastern
> end altitude of this runway, I'd certainly appreciate it. The runway is
> approximately 5 miles south of Hanna WY, 2 miles south of the highway
junction
> of the road to Elk Mountain and the road to Medicine Bow, both of which
> intercept I-80 at their southern end.
>
> I'm gonna make those nice folks in Hanna a sign for Hanna Unintentional
Airport.
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
> VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
> http://www.rst-engr.com

[Jim Weir]

Thank you all for the Hanna airport info. Combining data from all three of the
sources I was given says the following:

Hanna Unintentional Airport
Bell Field
Elevation - 7083
Runway - 06-24 gravel/weeds
Latitude - 41°49'49.8" (41.8305°)
Longitude - 106°32'02.8" (106.5341°)

That oughta be enough for a 2' x 4' sign, don'cha think?

Jim


Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Jon Woellhaf]

I love that name, "Hanna Unintentional Airport!"

A couple years ago I was on a helicopter ride east of Price, UT and we flew
by a runway like the one in Hanna that's identified on the MapSource topo as
"Interplanetary Airport."

[Jim Weir]

Are you talking about Green River Intergalactic Airport just west of Rock
Springs?

Jim


"Jon Woellhaf" >
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->I love that name, "Hanna Unintentional Airport!"
->
->A couple years ago I was on a helicopter ride east of Price, UT and we flew
->by a runway like the one in Hanna that's identified on the MapSource topo as
->"Interplanetary Airport."
->

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Jon Woellhaf]

Nope, Interplanetary is about 26 statute miles northeast of Price Carbon
County (KPUC), UT.

I guess "Intergalactic" trumps Interplanetary. On my topo it's identified as
"Gtr Green River Intergalactic" -- so as not to be confused with Lesser
Green River Intergalactic, I suppose.

"Jim Weir" > wrote in message
...
> Are you talking about Green River Intergalactic Airport just west of Rock
> Springs?
>
> Jim

[Big John]

Jay

Had Afib (flutter) in upper chanber that they worked on. Am still
having problems in recovery so not sure what next move is :o(

Put a new pacemaker (two lead) in to replace my old one lead.

Guess will just have to wait and see? I feel worse now than before I
started.

Big john (down but not out yet) :o(


On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 19:49:42 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

----clip----

Out of Hospital and recovering from heart work so mostly lurking.

>Uh oh. Whassup with that, Big John?

[Big John]

Martin

Guess you would rather be speaking Japanese today?

Japan was almost ready to invade Australia when the US sent troops,
planes and ships and stopped them along with the Australian forces who
participate in WWII in the Pacific in a very heroic manner. Those I
fought with were first class 'blokes'.

Australian forces would also have participated in the Invasion. If it
had taken place. your Country would have lost many more of its young
men. Could have set you back a generation according to some histories
I have read.

We have been the "Ugly Americans" for years and now that we are top
dog we still take many of the 'pin pricks' leveled against us. However
poke the bear and wake him up in the middle of winter, we can say
enough is enough and get rough with the pin pricker's. When we do
don't fault us for being stupid.

We still have to turn back thousands trying to get in the country and
I wonder if they think we are such a bad country. If we closed our
borders there would be a out cry from the rest of the world about our
protectionist policies.

Some time you can't win for trying.

Big John (Only running on 7 cylinders due to heart)
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````

On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 20:11:25 GMT, Martin Hotze >
wrote:

>On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 19:49:42 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>>It would seem that Martin believes that the Japanese would have met us with
>>cherry blossoms on the beaches had we not dropped the Bomb... Must be
>>those Austrian history books...
>
>[.. doubting that you know very much of outside US, but anyway ...] it was
>OT, so I have set a follow up to poster. damn! get a clue!
>the bomb was maybe a smart solution for you (Americans), but I doubt that
>many others see it as smart as you do.
>mabye *we* have learned from wars (we fought too many), it seems that you
>are still happy going to war and shipping bodies back to their families.
>!"/&$(/&%$$§%"$§!!!!
>
>#m
>f-up2poster, again.

[Big John]

Jack

I'll use your post to add a few more comments.

The fire bombing of Tokyo killed on the same order as the A bomb's. No
one ever talks about that any more. When I drove through Tokyo there
were sections as far as I could see of just small blocks of cement
sticking out of the ground. These had been used as foundations for the
rice paper houses built on them. NOTHIING THERE, ALL GONE.

Go read the eye witness accounts of the fire storms that took place
and the bodies piled in the rivers/canals as people tried to escape
the horrendous fires.

War is hell but as has been said, the quicker it is finished the less
loss of live takes place (on both sides).

On the sacrifice of a few to save many. Read all the time about a
'grunt' who dives on a grenade to save his fellow soldiers in the fox
hole.

Also the "Golly Green Giant' rescue helicopters. It is well documented
that they went on missions to save a downed flier and lost several
choppers and a dozen pilots and crew trying to save just one
individual.

As a last. It sounds like the original poster of this trivia is a
blind Kerry supporter? To bad he is not a citizen and can vote his
preference (free country)

Sorry for not clipping the original.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ```````````````````

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 02:22:29 -0500, Jack >
wrote:

>Thomas Borchert wrote:
>
> > Martin simply pointed out that the two A-boms used in earnest
> > so far killed A LOT of people. That seems to be easily forgotten
>> by some when the heroes are sung the way they were here.
>
>No one forgets. But neither you nor Martin has shown us why we should
>consider the casualties of those two bombs as any more regrettable than
>the hundreds of thousands caused by Japanese invasions of their
>neighbors. If it required a great many Japanese lives to right the
>balance and end the war, then so be it. American lives and Japanese
>lives were saved. If that is not enough for you, it is enough for me.
>
>Indeed, the result of the use of the Atom bombs was doubtless to allow a
>generation of both Japanese and Americans to be born into this world who
>would otherwise have had no fathers. The tool which allows an early end
>to a devastating conflict is desirable. The reluctance to fight and win
>in as short a time as possible only increases the total of human suffering.
>
>Do not make the mistake of believing that we celebrate the use of the
>bombs. War is terrible enough without such purposeful ignorance of it's
>true character. We celebrate the dedication of the men who took such a
>great burden upon themselves in order to give us victory and a peace to
>be shared with both our allies and our former enemies. The most
>important thing about Atomic weapons is not so much that they were once
>demonstrated, but that their use has since been avoided. To destroy vast
>numbers of lives is monstrous whether by bayonet or by bomb, but to
>abhor the means of war instead of decrying its causes is foolishness.
>
>Have you considered lately how many of mine you would be willing to
>sacrifice in order to save an equal or greater number of your own, and
>by what methods you would be willing to make such an exchange? The
>subject deserves a great deal more thought than most of us have given it.
>
>
>Jack

[Martin Hotze]

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 12:51:21 -0500, Big John wrote:

>Martin
>
>Guess you would rather be speaking Japanese today?
>
>Japan was almost ready to invade Australia when the US sent troops,
[... big snip here ...]

could it be that you just mixed Austria with Australia?
could it be that you had no idea where you've been on this marvellous
planet while fighting for/against $pickyourchoice?

thanks for the insight.

martin

--
The more one is absorbed in fighting Evil,
the less one is tempted to place the Good
in question. (J.P. Sartre)

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Martin Hotze" > wrote in message
...
>
> could it be that you just mixed Austria with Australia?
>

Doubtful, as Austria didn't exist at that time.

[Paul Sengupta]

"Martin Hotze" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 12:51:21 -0500, Big John wrote:
>
> >Martin
> >
> >Guess you would rather be speaking Japanese today?
> >
> >Japan was almost ready to invade Australia when the US sent troops,
> [... big snip here ...]
>
> could it be that you just mixed Austria with Australia?

Yeah, if it wasn't for the US, you'd be speaking German now.

:-)

Paul (tongue firmly in cheek)

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Martin Hotze" > wrote in message
...
> "Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote:
>
> > > could it be that you just mixed Austria with Australia?
> > >
> >
> > Doubtful, as Austria didn't exist at that time.
>
>
> Everytime when one references the WWII time and says something like "you
folks
> in Austria" it is references to the people living in the geographic area
of
> Austria, albeit the state Austria hasn't existed at that time. At least we
here
> in Europe udnerstand it that way, YMMV.
>

So what you're trying to say is you meant the region formerly known as
Austria. I doubt anyone else appointed you to speak for them.

[Grasshopper]

Martin Hotze wrote:
> Everytime when one references the WWII time and says something like
> "you folks in Austria" it is references to the people living in the
> geographic area of Austria, albeit the state Austria hasn't existed
> at that time. At least we here in Europe udnerstand it that way, YMMV.


I don't want to feed your argument with these folks, but the Republic of
Austria was created at the end of WW I.

Lonely Planet seems to think you are wrong:
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/destinations/europe/austria/history.htm

Country Reports seems to think you are wrong:
http://www.countryreports.org/history/austhist.htm

Brigham Young University seems to think you are wrong:
http://library.byu.edu/~rdh/eurodocs/austria.html

Encyclopedia.com seems to think you are wrong:
http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/section/austria_history.asp

National Geographic seems to think you are wrong:
http://www.iexplore.com/dmap/Austria/History

World Rover seems to think you are wrong:
http://www.worldrover.com/history/austria_history.html

About Vienna seems to think you are wrong:
http://www.aboutvienna.org/history/habsburg.htm

Infoplease seems to think you are wrong:
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/world/A0856780.html

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Martin Hotze" > wrote in message
...
>
> you're pretty weired ....
>

What's "weired"?


>
> but let's simply agree to disagree, ok?
>

Let's say you don't know what you're talking about.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Grasshopper" > wrote in message
...
>
> I don't want to feed your argument with these folks, but the Republic of
> Austria was created at the end of WW I.
>

And gone before WWII.