A plaugue of TFRs [Archive]

Ben Jackson

August 13th 04, 04:12 AM

Tommorow the Blue Angels will be practicing near Hillsboro, OR in the
afternoon at the same time a Presidential TFR is active in an overlapping
area. You think they'll shoot down the Blues?

Looks like I picked a hell of a day to try to fly from Hillsboro to
Seattle!

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

G. Burkhart

August 13th 04, 04:52 AM

"Ben Jackson" > wrote in message
news:nkWSc.246791$%_6.229861@attbi_s01...
> Tommorow the Blue Angels will be practicing near Hillsboro, OR in the
> afternoon at the same time a Presidential TFR is active in an overlapping
> area. You think they'll shoot down the Blues?
>
> Looks like I picked a hell of a day to try to fly from Hillsboro to
> Seattle!

Don't you just love these TFR's? We had one around Mankato, MN a week ago.
If I was flying that day, I could have taken off from St James but would
have been within the TFR in a few miles. That's hitting close to home. I
just pulled up AOPA's Real-Time Flight Planner to plan a trip between here
and Minden, NE. It routes me right over Sioux City. With the TFR over Sioux
City this Saturday, it says "IA SUX 4/8406....", that's kinda rude.

I check the AOPA website and the flight planner regularly to see if there's
any of these TFR's popping up at an airport near me...

--
Greg Burkhart

6-pack Abs??? Heck with 6-pack Abs, mine look more like a keg!

J. Severyn

August 13th 04, 06:14 AM

'Vejita' S. Cousin

August 13th 04, 06:18 AM

In article >,
>> Looks like I picked a hell of a day to try to fly from Hillsboro to
>> Seattle!
>
>Its a problem to fly anywhere when the Feds post a TFR like 4/8409.
>http://tfr.faa.gov/tfr/jsp/save_pages/detail_4_8409.html
>Do any of you folk know how to interpret this one??? I don't have a clue.

It looks pretty simple if you read all of it. It appears that from
unknown time X, to unspecified time Y, at a location to remain secret,
there's a TFR for operations within an unstated height, within a certain
radius (which I'll assume is around the secret location but I am not 100%
sure).
See that's part of the problem, the FAA posts these TFRs and then
pilots fail to honor them. You know who else doesn't follow the law..
that's right criminals :)

gatt

August 13th 04, 05:32 PM

"Ben Jackson" > wrote in message

> Tommorow the Blue Angels will be practicing near Hillsboro, OR in the
> afternoon at the same time a Presidential TFR is active in an overlapping
> area. You think they'll shoot down the Blues?
>
> Looks like I picked a hell of a day to try to fly from Hillsboro to
> Seattle!

You've gotta be kidding! You're gonna try that TODAY? With the TFR active
and all the chaos going on, I imagine it's going to be a slow day for
general aviation in PDX. I cancelled my flying schedule and decided to go
camping.

:>

-c

Bob Gardner

August 13th 04, 05:54 PM

The general public is getting a look into the TFR question here in Seattle.
El Presidente will be here tonight, shutting down Lake Union and Lake
Washington and putting Kenmore's floatplane operation out of business for 18
hours. Kenmore is the largest float plane operation in the US, and they are
getting a lot of media exposure because of the financial hit they are
taking. They also have customers on islands up in British Columbia who
expect to be picked up and returned to Seattle...but won't be...and Kenmore
has no way of communicating with them.

Bob Gardner

"Ben Jackson" > wrote in message
news:nkWSc.246791$%_6.229861@attbi_s01...
> Tommorow the Blue Angels will be practicing near Hillsboro, OR in the
> afternoon at the same time a Presidential TFR is active in an overlapping
> area. You think they'll shoot down the Blues?
>
> Looks like I picked a hell of a day to try to fly from Hillsboro to
> Seattle!
>
> --
> Ben Jackson
> >
> http://www.ben.com/

Peter Duniho

August 13th 04, 06:23 PM

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
...
> The general public is getting a look into the TFR question here in
Seattle.
> El Presidente will be here tonight, shutting down Lake Union and Lake
> Washington and putting Kenmore's floatplane operation out of business for
18
> hours. [...]

I don't understand. I was under the impression that only the interior 3
mile radius of the TFR is strictly no-fly. Can't Kenmore simply get ATC
approval to fly through the portion of the 30-mile radius that's affecting
them?

I'm all for a "lot of media exposure" and the "general public...getting a
look into the TFR question", but hopefully the information presented will at
least be accurate.

What local media has been reporting on this? I'd love to see the news
reports firsthand...I've been dismayed at the lack of attention aviation's
hardships have gotten, here and across the country.

Pete

Newps

August 15th 04, 09:22 PM

Peter Duniho wrote:

> I don't understand. I was under the impression that only the interior 3
> mile radius of the TFR is strictly no-fly. Can't Kenmore simply get ATC
> approval to fly through the portion of the 30-mile radius that's affecting
> them?

Yes. The size of the no fly zone varies but it is highly unlikely
Kenmore is grounded unless Bush will be within a few miles of their base.

Ben Jackson

August 15th 04, 09:44 PM

In article >,
Newps > wrote:
>
>Yes. The size of the no fly zone varies but it is highly unlikely
>Kenmore is grounded unless Bush will be within a few miles of their base.

That TFR for the Portland area had a 30nm ring and two interior 10nm
rings.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

Newps

August 16th 04, 12:18 AM

Ben Jackson wrote:
> In article >,
> Newps > wrote:
>
>>Yes. The size of the no fly zone varies but it is highly unlikely
>>Kenmore is grounded unless Bush will be within a few miles of their base.
>
>
> That TFR for the Portland area had a 30nm ring and two interior 10nm
> rings.

You need to read the fine print. Many TFR's allow transit as long as
you are talking to ATC.

Roger Halstead

August 16th 04, 05:14 PM

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 14:22:02 -0600, Newps > wrote:

>
>
>Peter Duniho wrote:
>
>> I don't understand. I was under the impression that only the interior 3
>> mile radius of the TFR is strictly no-fly. Can't Kenmore simply get ATC
>> approval to fly through the portion of the 30-mile radius that's affecting
>> them?

Here in the flat lands the no fly zone was a 10 mile radius. That was
why we had a Falcon 900 landing on our 3800 foot runway.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>Yes. The size of the no fly zone varies but it is highly unlikely
>Kenmore is grounded unless Bush will be within a few miles of their base.

David Brooks

August 17th 04, 07:48 PM

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The general public is getting a look into the TFR question here in
> Seattle.
> > El Presidente will be here tonight, shutting down Lake Union and Lake
> > Washington and putting Kenmore's floatplane operation out of business
for
> 18
> > hours. [...]
>
> I don't understand. I was under the impression that only the interior 3
> mile radius of the TFR is strictly no-fly. Can't Kenmore simply get ATC
> approval to fly through the portion of the 30-mile radius that's affecting
> them?
>
> I'm all for a "lot of media exposure" and the "general public...getting a
> look into the TFR question", but hopefully the information presented will
at
> least be accurate.
>
> What local media has been reporting on this? I'd love to see the news
> reports firsthand...I've been dismayed at the lack of attention aviation's
> hardships have gotten, here and across the country.

Coming back to the NG a little late, but...

1) Kenmore was within the 10nm ring, and presumably don't meet the
"regularly scheduled/DSIP" standard
2) KING5 reported this, at least
3) They had several days notice of the TFR; the NOTAM was out there in
plenty of time. I suppose this means the passengers had been camping and
literally out of contact for a week or so.
4) Other businesses were hurt. The no-flight-training part of the 30nm ring
must have hit a lot of places at Boeing Field, Renton, and Everett (maybe
Tacoma, I forget). Shrub stayed overnight.

-- David Brooks