IFR to Chandler AZ (Phoenix area)

[S. Sherman]

Hello,

I'm relatively new to IFR (got the rating in Jan.) and also have never
flown into the Arizona area.

I'll be flying from the San Diego area into Chandler (CHD) and I want
to do the flight IFR. I have some questions:

1. Does ATC normally route you to CHD using one of the PHX STARs? I
did not see any that were really applicable to a non turbojet coming
into CHD from the west. What can I expect?

2. I expect clear skies when I arrive so I don't expect to need the
VOR approach (although I could to it for practice). Will they
normally just clear me for the visual or should I cancel IFR when
close?

3. What can I expect leaving CHD under IFR as far as routing is
concerned?

Thanks!

-Stacy

[Jens Krueger]

S. Sherman > wrote:

> 1. Does ATC normally route you to CHD using one of the PHX STARs? I
> did not see any that were really applicable to a non turbojet coming
> into CHD from the west. What can I expect?

Expect nothing. Just file what you think works and ATC will give you
your clearence. And even that might change right after take-off. Trying
to "guess" what might happen isn't going to work. Just be prepared for
whatever routing they might give you. If you can't fly it, say unable.
ATC will help you, don't worry.

> 2. I expect clear skies when I arrive so I don't expect to need the
> VOR approach (although I could to it for practice). Will they
> normally just clear me for the visual or should I cancel IFR when
> close?

If you can see the field they will give you a visual. But you can still
request the practise approach if you want to. Good for currency.

> 3. What can I expect leaving CHD under IFR as far as routing is
> concerned?

See 1. ;-)

Cheers,
jens

--
I don't accept any emails right now. Usenet replys only.

[MT]

(S. Sherman) wrote in message >...

> Hello,
>
> I'm relatively new to IFR (got the rating in Jan.) and also have never
> flown into the Arizona area.
>
> I'll be flying from the San Diego area into Chandler (CHD) and I want
> to do the flight IFR. I have some questions:
>

I have flown this route many times IFR.

> 1. Does ATC normally route you to CHD using one of the PHX STARs? I
> did not see any that were really applicable to a non turbojet coming
> into CHD from the west. What can I expect?
>

You can expect radar vectors to KCHD past GBN.

> 2. I expect clear skies when I arrive so I don't expect to need the
> VOR approach (although I could to it for practice). Will they
> normally just clear me for the visual or should I cancel IFR when
> close?

Phoenix approach will clear you for the visual, you can request a
published approach.

> 3. What can I expect leaving CHD under IFR as far as routing is
> concerned?

You will get the published departure procedure, then radar vectors to
GBN.

Mike

> Thanks!
>
> -Stacy

[S. Sherman]

Jens & Mike,

Thanks for your responses. Yeah I realize that ATC could change on me
at any time but it does seem like you get the same thing MOST of the
time. At least for arrival and departure.

A little history on this, I was flying out of Long Beach, CA IFR for
the first time and they gave me a really complicated departure
procedure that took me 3 tries to write down. It's a fairly big
airport but it's only in class D and I didn't think to look up SIDs.
After I got home I looked and found out that what he gave me was one
of the SIDs. It could have saved me and the clearance guy some grief
if I had looked it up beforehand and knew what to expect.

Since CHD is close to PHX, I wanted to know if they normally give you
one of the published STARs or SIDs.

Thanks for your help!

-Stacy

(MT) wrote in message >...
> (S. Sherman) wrote in message >...
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm relatively new to IFR (got the rating in Jan.) and also have never
> > flown into the Arizona area.
> >
> > I'll be flying from the San Diego area into Chandler (CHD) and I want
> > to do the flight IFR. I have some questions:
> >
>
> I have flown this route many times IFR.
>
> > 1. Does ATC normally route you to CHD using one of the PHX STARs? I
> > did not see any that were really applicable to a non turbojet coming
> > into CHD from the west. What can I expect?
> >
>
> You can expect radar vectors to KCHD past GBN.
>
> > 2. I expect clear skies when I arrive so I don't expect to need the
> > VOR approach (although I could to it for practice). Will they
> > normally just clear me for the visual or should I cancel IFR when
> > close?
>
> Phoenix approach will clear you for the visual, you can request a
> published approach.
>
> > 3. What can I expect leaving CHD under IFR as far as routing is
> > concerned?
>
> You will get the published departure procedure, then radar vectors to
> GBN.
>
> Mike
>
> > Thanks!
> >
> > -Stacy

[S. Sherman]

Hmmm, I just looked at my route. I'm flying to Buckeye -> AVONA ->
CHD. That's got me going straight over PHX. Think I'd have better
luck going via GBD??

(MT) wrote in message >...
> (S. Sherman) wrote in message >...
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm relatively new to IFR (got the rating in Jan.) and also have never
> > flown into the Arizona area.
> >
> > I'll be flying from the San Diego area into Chandler (CHD) and I want
> > to do the flight IFR. I have some questions:
> >
>
> I have flown this route many times IFR.
>
> > 1. Does ATC normally route you to CHD using one of the PHX STARs? I
> > did not see any that were really applicable to a non turbojet coming
> > into CHD from the west. What can I expect?
> >
>
> You can expect radar vectors to KCHD past GBN.
>
> > 2. I expect clear skies when I arrive so I don't expect to need the
> > VOR approach (although I could to it for practice). Will they
> > normally just clear me for the visual or should I cancel IFR when
> > close?
>
> Phoenix approach will clear you for the visual, you can request a
> published approach.
>
> > 3. What can I expect leaving CHD under IFR as far as routing is
> > concerned?
>
> You will get the published departure procedure, then radar vectors to
> GBN.
>
> Mike
>
> > Thanks!
> >
> > -Stacy

[S. Sherman]

Hmmm, my route is from Buckeye -> AVONA -> CHD which has me going
right over PHX. Would I have better luck going via Gila Bend???

(I got a server error first time I tried to post this. Hope it
doesn't post twice).

-Stacy

(MT) wrote in message >...
> (S. Sherman) wrote in message >...
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm relatively new to IFR (got the rating in Jan.) and also have never
> > flown into the Arizona area.
> >
> > I'll be flying from the San Diego area into Chandler (CHD) and I want
> > to do the flight IFR. I have some questions:
> >
>
> I have flown this route many times IFR.
>
> > 1. Does ATC normally route you to CHD using one of the PHX STARs? I
> > did not see any that were really applicable to a non turbojet coming
> > into CHD from the west. What can I expect?
> >
>
> You can expect radar vectors to KCHD past GBN.
>
> > 2. I expect clear skies when I arrive so I don't expect to need the
> > VOR approach (although I could to it for practice). Will they
> > normally just clear me for the visual or should I cancel IFR when
> > close?
>
> Phoenix approach will clear you for the visual, you can request a
> published approach.
>
> > 3. What can I expect leaving CHD under IFR as far as routing is
> > concerned?
>
> You will get the published departure procedure, then radar vectors to
> GBN.
>
> Mike
>
> > Thanks!
> >
> > -Stacy

[Bob Gardner]

Subject to the usual caveats that practices differ from one place to
another, I think that you can forget about getting a STAR by name. You may
find yourself flying the radials at a much lower altitude than the folks the
STAR was designed for.

Bob Gardner

"S. Sherman" > wrote in message
om...
> Hello,
>
> I'm relatively new to IFR (got the rating in Jan.) and also have never
> flown into the Arizona area.
>
> I'll be flying from the San Diego area into Chandler (CHD) and I want
> to do the flight IFR. I have some questions:
>
> 1. Does ATC normally route you to CHD using one of the PHX STARs? I
> did not see any that were really applicable to a non turbojet coming
> into CHD from the west. What can I expect?
>
> 2. I expect clear skies when I arrive so I don't expect to need the
> VOR approach (although I could to it for practice). Will they
> normally just clear me for the visual or should I cancel IFR when
> close?
>
> 3. What can I expect leaving CHD under IFR as far as routing is
> concerned?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Stacy

[MT]

(S. Sherman) wrote in message >...
> Hmmm, my route is from Buckeye -> AVONA -> CHD which has me going
> right over PHX. Would I have better luck going via Gila Bend???
>
> (I got a server error first time I tried to post this. Hope it
> doesn't post twice).
>
> -Stacy

When I come in on V16, I file to PHX, then direct KCHD. I have always
got radar vectors for KCHD when east of BXK.

Mike

[Jens Krueger]

S. Sherman > wrote:

> (I got a server error first time I tried to post this. Hope it
> doesn't post twice).

It did. ;-)

--
I don't accept any emails right now. Usenet replys only.

[Jens Krueger]

S. Sherman > wrote:

> Since CHD is close to PHX, I wanted to know if they normally give you
> one of the published STARs or SIDs.

It's always good to expect those since they save both you and the
controllers work. So a controller (or better: the computer) will almost
always issue one if it makes sense for your routing. But you can always
file with "No SID/STARS" in the remarks of your flight plan if you're
not comfortable with them.

Cheers,
Jens

--
I don't accept any emails right now. Usenet replys only.

[Jeff]

Stacy,
Did you make your flight to phoenix yet? If so how did it go?

We just moved to phoenix area and I am basing my plane out at CHD, moved
from las vegas, I have a butt load of flights into the phoenix area,
mainly falcon and williams gateway, several IFR departures and arrivals in
IMC and several IFR departures/arrivals in VMC. IFR and VFR I always get
vectors in and out.

One thing about the controllers at phoenix sky harbor is that they if they
can do it, they will vector you around their airspace instead of through
it.

let me know how they bring you in, I am thinking they will bring you down
near the south end of the class B then turn you up to CHD.

"S. Sherman" wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm relatively new to IFR (got the rating in Jan.) and also have never
> flown into the Arizona area.
>
> I'll be flying from the San Diego area into Chandler (CHD) and I want
> to do the flight IFR. I have some questions:
>
> 1. Does ATC normally route you to CHD using one of the PHX STARs? I
> did not see any that were really applicable to a non turbojet coming
> into CHD from the west. What can I expect?
>
> 2. I expect clear skies when I arrive so I don't expect to need the
> VOR approach (although I could to it for practice). Will they
> normally just clear me for the visual or should I cancel IFR when
> close?
>
> 3. What can I expect leaving CHD under IFR as far as routing is
> concerned?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Stacy

[Tom S.]

"Jeff" > wrote in message
...
> Stacy,
> Did you make your flight to phoenix yet? If so how did it go?
>
> We just moved to phoenix area and I am basing my plane out at CHD, moved


What part of town did you move to? I just moved from Gilbert (Val Vista and
McQueen) to Colorado Springs. I did my re-entry to flying out of CHD (four
miles away) but my business flying out of Scottsdale Air Park.

[Jeff]

I am in Queen Creek, Gilbert is not far from here, my wife takes her horse
jumping lessons in Gilbert

"Tom S." wrote:

> "Jeff" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Stacy,
> > Did you make your flight to phoenix yet? If so how did it go?
> >
> > We just moved to phoenix area and I am basing my plane out at CHD, moved
>
> What part of town did you move to? I just moved from Gilbert (Val Vista and
> McQueen) to Colorado Springs. I did my re-entry to flying out of CHD (four
> miles away) but my business flying out of Scottsdale Air Park.

[XMnushaL8y]

I just started working at Chandler Airport and have flown out of there and also
Falcon Field in Mesa. I think telling someone they can just dodge the storms is
like playing chicken with a train. The storms *can* move quickly, so it would
be easy to get caught in a bad place, and they don't *always* pass through that
fast. The winds can get very strong very quickly also, not to mention other
things like dust storms. Early- to mid-mornings are definitely best, but
there's no substitute for closely monitoring the weather services.

[Tom S.]

"Jeff" > wrote in message
...
> I am in Queen Creek, Gilbert is not far from here, my wife takes her horse
> jumping lessons in Gilbert
>
Yeah...Gilbert is just west of you. Where in Queen Creek (cross roads)?

[S. Sherman]

Sorry, I should have posted a trip report. Here it is...

The trip went pretty well. I went to Chandler via the south route
(Yuma). Somewhere past Yuma, I got an updated clearance that was
basically as I had filed but take out the last checkpoint and vectors
after the last VOR (forget the name right now). I had a non pilot
friend on board who is very interested in learning to fly and is good
at holding heading and altitude so it was nice to be able to copy the
clearance, look at and refold the maps, etc. while my human autopilot
flew.

I didn't even get to the last VOR (the one about 10 -15 miles SW of
chandler)when they started vectoring me as everyone told me they
would. They cleared me for the visual at CHD which was new for me.
There is no published visual approach so I figured they meant normal
VFR traffic pattern.

The first surprise was the visibility. I'm from So. Cal and it's
usually pretty smoggy or hazy there. In AZ, 10 miles from the airport
looks like 4 miles in CA. I was 10 miles out just like my GPS and the
controller said, I could see an airport with parallel runways like
Chandler does but I refused to believe it was 10 whole miles away! :)

I had two more gotchas on the landing that had nothing to do with IFR.
The first thing is, I got behind the power curve on base! Someone I
talked to blamed this on the heat and high density altitude. I've
flown into Big Bear at 6,700 feet several times and haven't had that
problem before so I'm not sure if that was it.

The second gotcha was that I focused on the larger runway on downwind
even though my runway was the closer, shorter one. It made me end up
on a tighter base to final turn than I would have liked with someone
turning to final on the parallel runway at the same time. This and
being behind the power curve were a good setup for a classic base to
final stall accident. Luckily, I kept a good eye on my airspeed and
did what I had to do to keep it over 65 kts.

Also, we had a stronger headwind than I anticipated and didn't see
much over 100 kts groundspeed for a good part of the trip in our 172,
the trip took about 20 minutes longer than I anticipated.

Going back, we went the north route (via Blythe). Much bumpier this
time and my passengers had a hard time with airsickness. I landed in
blythe for a while to give them a rest. I think next time I'll just
go via Yuma. fewer mountains.

Thanks for all the help!

Jeff > wrote in message >...
> Stacy,
> Did you make your flight to phoenix yet? If so how did it go?
>
> We just moved to phoenix area and I am basing my plane out at CHD, moved
> from las vegas, I have a butt load of flights into the phoenix area,
> mainly falcon and williams gateway, several IFR departures and arrivals in
> IMC and several IFR departures/arrivals in VMC. IFR and VFR I always get
> vectors in and out.
>
> One thing about the controllers at phoenix sky harbor is that they if they
> can do it, they will vector you around their airspace instead of through
> it.
>
> let me know how they bring you in, I am thinking they will bring you down
> near the south end of the class B then turn you up to CHD.
>
> "S. Sherman" wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm relatively new to IFR (got the rating in Jan.) and also have never
> > flown into the Arizona area.
> >
> > I'll be flying from the San Diego area into Chandler (CHD) and I want
> > to do the flight IFR. I have some questions:
> >
> > 1. Does ATC normally route you to CHD using one of the PHX STARs? I
> > did not see any that were really applicable to a non turbojet coming
> > into CHD from the west. What can I expect?
> >
> > 2. I expect clear skies when I arrive so I don't expect to need the
> > VOR approach (although I could to it for practice). Will they
> > normally just clear me for the visual or should I cancel IFR when
> > close?
> >
> > 3. What can I expect leaving CHD under IFR as far as routing is
> > concerned?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > -Stacy

[A Guy Called Tyketto]

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Hash: SHA1

In rec.aviation.piloting S. Sherman > wrote:
> Sorry, I should have posted a trip report. Here it is...
>
> The trip went pretty well. I went to Chandler via the south route
> (Yuma). Somewhere past Yuma, I got an updated clearance that was
> basically as I had filed but take out the last checkpoint and vectors
> after the last VOR (forget the name right now). I had a non pilot
> friend on board who is very interested in learning to fly and is good
> at holding heading and altitude so it was nice to be able to copy the
> clearance, look at and refold the maps, etc. while my human autopilot
> flew.

Sounds like you flew IPL(Imperial) - BZA(Bard) - GBN (Gila
Bend) then up to PXR direct.

> The first surprise was the visibility. I'm from So. Cal and it's
> usually pretty smoggy or hazy there. In AZ, 10 miles from the airport
> looks like 4 miles in CA. I was 10 miles out just like my GPS and the
> controller said, I could see an airport with parallel runways like
> Chandler does but I refused to believe it was 10 whole miles away! :)

Oh yeah. Once you get out of the smog that is SoCal, visibility
clears right up! You can get a good visual on KLAS at lesat 20 miles
out before even getting to anywhere near a pattern there. I'm not
surprised you could see KCHD that far out.

> Going back, we went the north route (via Blythe). Much bumpier this
> time and my passengers had a hard time with airsickness. I landed in
> blythe for a while to give them a rest. I think next time I'll just
> go via Yuma. fewer mountains.
>
> Thanks for all the help!

I'll assume you came in from the LA Basin or San Diego. For the
major carrier traffic, you'll notice more of the preferred route from
the LA area being TRM.BLH.BLH4 or TRM.BLH.ARLIN3 inbound. You're going
over the San Bernardino mountains there, which could get really gusty,
especially if the Santa Ana winds start messing about. You'll
definitely get a much smoother ride if you fly down through IPL and BZA
and pick up the arrival from there.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! :) | http://www.sbcglobal.net/~tyketto
PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF

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