Malibu Midair

[Larry Dighera]

Two planes collide in air; 3 dead, one missing

Associated Press

MALIBU -- Two small airplanes collided in midair off a Malibu beach
Sunday, and three people were confirmed dead and a fourth was presumed
killed, officials said.

The two planes collided about 5:30 p. m. roughly 100 yards off El
Matador State Beach, said Bruce Nelson, operations manager for the
Federal Aviation Administration.

"There'll be no survivors. One body was washed up on the shores," Mr.
Nelson said.

One plane was a Thorp T-18, based in Torrance, and the other a
Citabria 7ECA, which was kept in Santa Paula, FAA spokesman Donn
Walker said. Each plane carried two people, he said.

Rescue crews found the bodies of two people inside the Thorp, Mr.
Walker said. One body from the Citabria washed ashore, and
authorities were still searching for the other body, he said.

"It is inconceivable to think there are survivors," Mr. Walker said.

[Bill Denton]

Have there been a disproportionate number of GA airplanes getting bent
lately or is it just a perception?



"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Two planes collide in air; 3 dead, one missing
>
> Associated Press
>
> MALIBU -- Two small airplanes collided in midair off a Malibu beach
> Sunday, and three people were confirmed dead and a fourth was presumed
> killed, officials said.
>
> The two planes collided about 5:30 p. m. roughly 100 yards off El
> Matador State Beach, said Bruce Nelson, operations manager for the
> Federal Aviation Administration.
>
> "There'll be no survivors. One body was washed up on the shores," Mr.
> Nelson said.
>
> One plane was a Thorp T-18, based in Torrance, and the other a
> Citabria 7ECA, which was kept in Santa Paula, FAA spokesman Donn
> Walker said. Each plane carried two people, he said.
>
> Rescue crews found the bodies of two people inside the Thorp, Mr.
> Walker said. One body from the Citabria washed ashore, and
> authorities were still searching for the other body, he said.
>
> "It is inconceivable to think there are survivors," Mr. Walker said.

[Andrew Gideon]

Bill Denton wrote:

> Have there been a disproportionate number of GA airplanes getting bent
> lately or is it just a perception?

Thanks for saying this; I was wondering myself.

- Andrew

[zatatime]

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:54:16 -0400, Andrew Gideon
> wrote:

>Bill Denton wrote:
>
>> Have there been a disproportionate number of GA airplanes getting bent
>> lately or is it just a perception?
>
>Thanks for saying this; I was wondering myself.
>
> - Andrew

Me too. I guess we have to wait for the end of year stats to know for
sure.

z

[Icebound]

"zatatime" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:54:16 -0400, Andrew Gideon
> > wrote:
>
> >Bill Denton wrote:
> >
> >> Have there been a disproportionate number of GA airplanes getting bent
> >> lately or is it just a perception?
> >
> >Thanks for saying this; I was wondering myself.
> >
> > - Andrew
>
> Me too. I guess we have to wait for the end of year stats to know for
> sure.
>
>


The summer weekends are a little crazy, but they were last year, too.

I think the NTSB db shows that July actually had fewer accidents and fewer
fatalities than last year, and based on the count so far, I don't think
August is going to be any worse than last year, also.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Bill Denton wrote:
>
> Have there been a disproportionate number of GA airplanes getting bent
> lately or is it just a perception?

My guess is that more people are posting news about local incidents. I know that I
never used to do this, but have started doing so recently. I suspect it's just better
publicity. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.

On the other hand, it seems to me that fewer people are speculating in these groups
as to the cause of crashes these days. That seems to me to be a good thing.

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

[Jeff Franks]

>
> On the other hand, it seems to me that fewer people are speculating in
these groups
> as to the cause of crashes these days. That seems to me to be a good
thing.
>

No, now we spend our time speculating on why we're not speculating
anymore.....we need lives ;)

jf

[Malcolm Teas]

"Bill Denton" > wrote in message >...
> Have there been a disproportionate number of GA airplanes getting bent
> lately or is it just a perception?

There was a rash of accidents in TX, possibly caused by several
pilot's lack of attention to high density altitude (it seems several
that I looked at news reports may have that as at least one cause).
When this is added into the normal "background noise" it might be what
you're thinking of.

As a sidenote on the perception of airplane accident frequency here's
something interesting: I searched news.google.com for "airplane
accident" and found 551 total reports. The first page of the reports
have dates ranging from 5 August to 18 hours ago.

Searching for 'car accident" results in 15,500 hits. The first page
reports cover from 12 August to 1 hour ago. Many more over a much
shorter period.

Apparently almost all the news reports of car accidents are local
only, and usually ignored since they're more or less expected.
Everyone knows someone who's been in at least one car accident or has
been in one themselves. But airplane accidents are much more likely
to be publicized nationwide. Most people's lack of familiarity and
the wide publicity causes the prevailing "small planes are dangerous"
attitude in the general public.

I'm familiar with the Nall report and the statistics, and the problems
of comparing car miles with airplane hours and the real comparison of
safety. I also know that the above Google search results are
statistically wrong since there are many many more cars and drivers
than there are planes and pilots. But, for making a perception in
people's minds it's relevant.

What I do know is that car accidents are more likely to be caused by
circumstances external to the driver, like other drivers. Airplane
accidents, omitting midairs like the Malibu case, are more likely to
be caused by a pilot's own issues. Before I started taking lessons I
read around 2 years of NSTB reports for TX and VA. I decided that
around 2/3 of all accidents were either caused or contributed to by
one of two things:

1) Attempting to fly without fuel (in a powered aircraft) or with junk
& water in the tanks.
2) Not taking weather into consideration, either flying into bad
weather or not dealing with density alt. or haze.

So, I check my fuel, and do my fuel use calculations. And I've become
a student of meterology.

-Malcolm Teas

[John Pelchat]

"Bill Denton" > wrote in message >...
> Have there been a disproportionate number of GA airplanes getting bent
> lately or is it just a perception?
>
I am not sure if it is really worse than usual or if it is a function
of faster, easier distribution of information amongst interested
parties via newsgroups like this one.

One way to develop a guess would be to look at the monthly summaries
of aviation accidents and incidents at the National Transportation
Safety Board's (NTSB)web-site (www.ntsb.gov). The data is not
perfect, but it should give you a decent feel regarding your question
of the apparent increase of airplane bending.

As always, my thoughts and prayers to those who have expereinced a
loss as the result of this accident.

for the rest of us, wishes for smooth air & blue skies . . .

John Pelchat

[Andrew Gideon]

G.R. Patterson III wrote:

> On the other hand, it seems to me that fewer people are speculating in
> these groups as to the cause of crashes these days.

I wonder what could cause that? Perhaps we should do some speculating.

- Andrew

[G.R. Patterson III]

Andrew Gideon wrote:
>
> I wonder what could cause that? Perhaps we should do some speculating.

If it will result in fewer crashes, I'm all for it. :-)

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.