Sometimes pilots do dumb things.

[lardsoup]

Yesterday I saw the stupidest thing so far in the short time that I've been
flying. I rent out of a VERY
busy uncontrolled field. On most weekends there are a couple of students in
the pattern, banners towers
flying around willy nilly, business jets on long finals, helicopters doing
their against the flow of traffic
thing, jump pilots entering the downwind from 3000msl and of course the
skydivers themselves landing in
a field just west of the runway. Exciting times.

So I call the FBO around 2:30 in the afternoon to see if there are any
planes for rent because it is the most
beautiful day, after a couple of weeks of low ceilings, thunderstorms, mist,
rain and blaaa weather. Back
side of a cold front with high pressure building across the entire area.
Sweet. I can get a Warrior at 6pm.
GREAT! Off I go, flying into the setting sun, with flight following, nice
greaser at a near by class D and
then back to home at 2300msl. Smooth air, great visibility, air traffic
controllers in a good mood, first
quarter moon rising over the ocean. MAN I LOVE FLYING!!!

Field in sight. Thanks for the flight following and have a great night.
AWOS 15004. Jump plane #1
pilot calls 3 minutes to jumpers away. Perfect. Should be entering on the
45 to downwind just as they
jump. Then I hear it. "Busyfield traffic. Twin Piper 10 miles out. Over
flying the field at 2000. West to
East." Say What? Maybe my radio is picking up a distant airport's unicom.
"Jumpers away". I enter the
downwind behind jump plane #2 diving into the pattern from 3000msl (TPA is
1000msl). Then again it
comes. "Busyfield traffic. Twin Piper five miles out. Over flying the
field at 2000". Jump plane #2 lands
just as I'm turning base. C152 departs. I turn final and again the call.
"Busyfield traffic. Twin Piper
over flying the field at 2000. Trying to avoid the parachutes". Sure
enough, as I'm on final here come
two chutes with the Piper flying right by them.

I don't know. Maybe it's just me. But directly over flying an active jump
zone a 2000 feet just seems
dumb.

Oh well. It was a beatuful day to fly.

[Newps]

lardsoup wrote:

>
> I don't know. Maybe it's just me. But directly over flying an active jump
> zone a 2000 feet just seems
> dumb.

The moronic part is jumping into an airport. This is contrary to what
the FAA would recommend.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
> The moronic part is jumping into an airport. This is contrary to what
> the FAA would recommend.
>

Many jumps are made at active airports, probably most of them. It makes the
next jump all the easier.

[BllFs6]

Hi

Maybe the question should be....why would you fly any lower and closer to an
apparently pretty active airport than you needed to if you werent actually
intending to land there in the first place?


Bll "always parks at the far end of the parking lot to avoid "parking space
vultures" Fish

[lardsoup]

Oh, he landed. After avoiding the jumpers he circled back into the downwind
and landed.

"BllFs6" > wrote in message
...
> Hi
>
> Maybe the question should be....why would you fly any lower and closer to
an
> apparently pretty active airport than you needed to if you werent actually
> intending to land there in the first place?
>
>
> Bll "always parks at the far end of the parking lot to avoid "parking
space
> vultures" Fish

[Andrew Gideon]

BllFs6 wrote:

> Maybe the question should be....why would you fly any lower and closer to
> an apparently pretty active airport than you needed to if you werent
> actually intending to land there in the first place?

I didn't note at what altitude the OP stated the jumpers were being kicked
out of a perfectly good airplane. But my experience in this neighborhood
has jumpers falling through the usual local VFR altitudes.

That is, the Piper's altitude isn't especially relevant. Proximity to the
airport, though...but don't we like this sort of thing for the odd case
where the air conditioning up front fails?

- Andrew

[Chris Ehlbeck]

At least the skydivers are easier to see under canopy! I was on my long XC
as a student and was flying near a DZ airport (knew not to go over). I was
at 6,500 MSL (about 5,600 AGL) and saw 3 canopies above me! GPS showed me
over 3 nm from the airport when I checked.
--
Chris Ehlbeck, PPASEL
"It's a license to learn and buy really expensive hamburgers."

"lardsoup" > wrote in message
...
> Oh, he landed. After avoiding the jumpers he circled back into the
downwind
> and landed.
>
> "BllFs6" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi
> >
> > Maybe the question should be....why would you fly any lower and closer
to
> an
> > apparently pretty active airport than you needed to if you werent
actually
> > intending to land there in the first place?
> >
> >
> > Bll "always parks at the far end of the parking lot to avoid "parking
> space
> > vultures" Fish
>
>

[Dale]

In article
>,
"lardsoup" > wrote:


> I don't know. Maybe it's just me. But directly over flying an active jump
> zone a 2000 feet just seems
> dumb.

The dropzone I fly at has been operating for 6 years now. We are noted
on the charts with a parachute symbol and we are published in the AF/D.
I talk myself hoarse on CTAF as well as working with Approach. Every
weekend at least one (and usually more) uncaring, uninformed or perhaps
just friggin' stupid pilot will fly right smack dab over the DZ (which
is a private airfield). What's really aggravating is it isn't transient
pilots, it's local guys.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Nathan Young]

Interesting thread. So what is proper procedure for flying into a DZ
airport? I fly to Morris IL (cheap fuel and good food) which used to
have skydiving (not sure if they still do). Whenever I would hear the
jumpplane on CTAF or Approach, I would just stay a few miles away
until it was obvious all the canopies were on the ground. Then I
would enter the pattern and land.


On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 18:06:02 GMT, "lardsoup" > wrote:

>I don't know. Maybe it's just me. But directly over flying an active jump
>zone a 2000 feet just seems
>dumb.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Nathan Young wrote:
>
> Interesting thread. So what is proper procedure for flying into a DZ
> airport? I fly to Morris IL (cheap fuel and good food) which used to
> have skydiving (not sure if they still do). Whenever I would hear the
> jumpplane on CTAF or Approach, I would just stay a few miles away
> until it was obvious all the canopies were on the ground. Then I
> would enter the pattern and land.

Sounds like the proper procedure to me.

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

[Dale]

In article >,
Nathan Young > wrote:

> Interesting thread. So what is proper procedure for flying into a DZ
> airport? I fly to Morris IL (cheap fuel and good food) which used to
> have skydiving (not sure if they still do). Whenever I would hear the
> jumpplane on CTAF or Approach, I would just stay a few miles away
> until it was obvious all the canopies were on the ground. Then I
> would enter the pattern and land.

Call the DZ and ask what the procedure is for the jumpers, or ask the
jump pilot when he announces. The jumpers probably have a procedure to
keep them out of the way of aircraft and to allow aircraft and
parachutes to mix in the pattern.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Michael]

"Chris Ehlbeck" > wrote
> At least the skydivers are easier to see under canopy! I was on my long XC
> as a student and was flying near a DZ airport (knew not to go over). I was
> at 6,500 MSL (about 5,600 AGL) and saw 3 canopies above me! GPS showed me
> over 3 nm from the airport when I checked.

What you saw was either a CRW or XC jump.

XC (cross country) is when the uppers are howling, the jump plane
flies into the wind (often 10+ miles upwind of the airport!) and the
jumpers get out, open, and fly home. In theory this requires that a
NOTAM be filed (since the standing NOTAM probably only covers the area
within 3-5 nm of the airport) but often this is not done.

CRW (canopy relative work) is when the jumpers get out, open, and try
to fly in VERY tight formation (as in - one guy holds on to parachute
of other guy(s) with hands and/or feet). If the uppers are howling,
they also have to get out well upwind of the airport if they are not
to land well downwind of it.

Neither is particularly rare. However, while jumpers in freefall are
practically invisible, jumpers under canopy are quite visible and able
to practice see-and-avoid. After all, they have dozens to hundreds of
square feet of brightly colored wing, move slowly (10-40 kts), and are
highly maneuverable. Not exactly a major hazard IMO.

Michael

[gatt]

"lardsoup" > wrote in message news:emqWc.503260

> I don't know. Maybe it's just me. But directly over flying an active
jump
> zone a 2000 feet just seems
> dumb.

The day I did my two jumps (1991), when I got on the ground after the second
one, all high on adrenaline and excitement, people ran up to me and said
"Did you see 'em? Did you see the airplanes?!" Uh...what?

Apparently, a formation of experimental planes flew right into the drop zone
and passed so close that they broke formation to avoid me. I distinctly
remembered the jump pilot reporting he was going to drop. Don't know if he
called jumpers away 'cause I was dangling off the strut by then,
but...yeesh... At the time, I was simply bummed that I didn't get to see
the planes in formation from 4,000 feet. Now that I know better, I'd kinda
like to kick one of 'em in the ass for it.

-c

[gatt]

"Dale" > wrote in message news:me-

<Every weekend at least one (and usually more) uncaring, uninformed or
perhaps
> just friggin' stupid pilot will fly right smack dab over the DZ (which
> is a private airfield). What's really aggravating is it isn't transient
> pilots, it's local guys.

Given that it's marked as a jump zone AND it's a private airfield, that's
basically inexcusable. Flak guns, perhaps? :>

[gatt]

"Nathan Young" > wrote in message

> Interesting thread. So what is proper procedure for flying into a DZ
> airport?

One like this:

>... Whenever I would hear the jumpplane on CTAF or Approach, I would just
stay a few >miles away until it was obvious all the canopies were on the
ground. Then I
> would enter the pattern and land.

The couple of times I've been in similar situations I've radioed CTAF to
verify that the jumpers were down. The jump pilot or UNICOM will generally
advise.

-c

[Roger Halstead]

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:22:54 -0700, "gatt"
> wrote:

>
>"Dale" > wrote in message news:me-
>
><Every weekend at least one (and usually more) uncaring, uninformed or
>perhaps
>> just friggin' stupid pilot will fly right smack dab over the DZ (which
>> is a private airfield). What's really aggravating is it isn't transient
>> pilots, it's local guys.
>
>Given that it's marked as a jump zone AND it's a private airfield, that's
>basically inexcusable. Flak guns, perhaps? :>

I give drop zones a wide berth unless headed for that airport, BUT
being marked private (The circle with the P) pretty much indicates
it's a seldom used field as far as most of the pilot population is
concerned. I can find quite a few in the lower peninsula of Michigan
and that impression would describe every one. OTOH the pilot is
supposed to know (get a briefing) prior to departure. That P doesn't
give the field any special status expect it's not for public use.

Couple weeks back I took a VFR trip. Direct was through a drop zone
about 60 miles from here. When I was within about 8 miles of the
field I made a half circle around it. I head a student doing T&Gs at
the airport. Gave him a call and he was surprised I didn't go straight
through as the DZ is only used on week ends and not always then.

If it was a couple or several planes in formation they would most
likely have been listening on 122.75, rather than the nearest app
frequency where I'd expect the drop plane to make their announcement.
Most of those fields marked P have no unicom or CTAF frequency listed.

IF the filed is marked P AND the drop zone is not active on a regular
basis locals will soon forget and transients are more likely to notice
than the locals.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>