How embarrassing!

[Roger Long]

Where is Miss Manners when you need her. I think I've gotten myself in a
real jam.

Our club could really use some publicity. I saw a very nice article about a
flying school in a nearby city so I called the reporter and offered to take
him flying. He is quite interested in doing a story on the club and asked if
the other reporter on his beat could come along.

I told him that would be fine but I would need to know their weights so I
could adjust the fuel load in our 172 N. He emailed back that he is 350 lbs.

I'm quite sure that the seats are not rated for anywhere near that. Even if
they are, as the maintenance officer who has had these 28 year old seats out
many times to repair the trim and covering, there is no way I want to put
350 pounds on them.

Now what do I do? One thing for sure, it's the last time I ask someone I
haven't met to go flying.


--

Roger Long

[Pete Desautelle]

Tell the guy your plane broke.

"Roger Long" > wrote in message
. ..
> Where is Miss Manners when you need her. I think I've gotten myself in a
> real jam.
>
> Our club could really use some publicity. I saw a very nice article about
a
> flying school in a nearby city so I called the reporter and offered to
take
> him flying. He is quite interested in doing a story on the club and asked
if
> the other reporter on his beat could come along.
>
> I told him that would be fine but I would need to know their weights so I
> could adjust the fuel load in our 172 N. He emailed back that he is 350
lbs.
>
> I'm quite sure that the seats are not rated for anywhere near that. Even
if
> they are, as the maintenance officer who has had these 28 year old seats
out
> many times to repair the trim and covering, there is no way I want to put
> 350 pounds on them.
>
> Now what do I do? One thing for sure, it's the last time I ask someone I
> haven't met to go flying.
>
>
> --
>
> Roger Long
>
>
>
>

[Peter MacPherson]

I think the seat belt would be an issue also. Does your club have
seat belt extenders?


"Roger Long" > wrote in message
. ..
> Where is Miss Manners when you need her. I think I've gotten myself in a
> real jam.
>
> Our club could really use some publicity. I saw a very nice article about
a
> flying school in a nearby city so I called the reporter and offered to
take
> him flying. He is quite interested in doing a story on the club and asked
if
> the other reporter on his beat could come along.
>
> I told him that would be fine but I would need to know their weights so I
> could adjust the fuel load in our 172 N. He emailed back that he is 350
lbs.
>
> I'm quite sure that the seats are not rated for anywhere near that. Even
if
> they are, as the maintenance officer who has had these 28 year old seats
out
> many times to repair the trim and covering, there is no way I want to put
> 350 pounds on them.
>
> Now what do I do? One thing for sure, it's the last time I ask someone I
> haven't met to go flying.
>
>
> --
>
> Roger Long
>
>
>
>

[Peter MacPherson]

Or it's about too.......... ; - )


"Pete Desautelle" > wrote in message
...
> Tell the guy your plane broke.
>
> "Roger Long" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > Where is Miss Manners when you need her. I think I've gotten myself in a
> > real jam.
> >
> > Our club could really use some publicity. I saw a very nice article
about
> a
> > flying school in a nearby city so I called the reporter and offered to
> take
> > him flying. He is quite interested in doing a story on the club and
asked
> if
> > the other reporter on his beat could come along.
> >
> > I told him that would be fine but I would need to know their weights so
I
> > could adjust the fuel load in our 172 N. He emailed back that he is 350
> lbs.
> >
> > I'm quite sure that the seats are not rated for anywhere near that. Even
> if
> > they are, as the maintenance officer who has had these 28 year old seats
> out
> > many times to repair the trim and covering, there is no way I want to
put
> > 350 pounds on them.
> >
> > Now what do I do? One thing for sure, it's the last time I ask someone I
> > haven't met to go flying.
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Roger Long
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[john smith]

Roger Long wrote:
> Now what do I do? One thing for sure, it's the last time I ask someone I
> haven't met to go flying.

Explain to him that this is a good example as to why terrorists cannot
effectively use light GA aircraft as delivery vehicles.
You just cannot put everything you think you can in one.

[Dan Thompson]

Tell him you checked your club rules and found you are not allowed to do the
flight you planned with him. This line has the advantage that it is not
really a lie.

"Roger Long" > wrote in message
. ..
> Where is Miss Manners when you need her. I think I've gotten myself in a
> real jam.
>
> Our club could really use some publicity. I saw a very nice article about
> a
> flying school in a nearby city so I called the reporter and offered to
> take
> him flying. He is quite interested in doing a story on the club and asked
> if
> the other reporter on his beat could come along.
>
> I told him that would be fine but I would need to know their weights so I
> could adjust the fuel load in our 172 N. He emailed back that he is 350
> lbs.
>
> I'm quite sure that the seats are not rated for anywhere near that. Even
> if
> they are, as the maintenance officer who has had these 28 year old seats
> out
> many times to repair the trim and covering, there is no way I want to put
> 350 pounds on them.
>
> Now what do I do? One thing for sure, it's the last time I ask someone I
> haven't met to go flying.
>
>
> --
>
> Roger Long
>
>
>
>

[William W. Plummer]

Roger Long wrote:

> Where is Miss Manners when you need her. I think I've gotten myself in a
> real jam.
>
> Our club could really use some publicity. I saw a very nice article about a
> flying school in a nearby city so I called the reporter and offered to take
> him flying. He is quite interested in doing a story on the club and asked if
> the other reporter on his beat could come along.
>
> I told him that would be fine but I would need to know their weights so I
> could adjust the fuel load in our 172 N. He emailed back that he is 350 lbs.
>
> I'm quite sure that the seats are not rated for anywhere near that. Even if
> they are, as the maintenance officer who has had these 28 year old seats out
> many times to repair the trim and covering, there is no way I want to put
> 350 pounds on them.
>
> Now what do I do? One thing for sure, it's the last time I ask someone I
> haven't met to go flying.
>
>
Please don't lie or try to be coy. Simply show him the weight and
balance calculation and explain how his weight rules him out for the
plane. Do you think he is unaware of his weight? That's silly.

[Bill Denton]

One thing to keep in mind: he can still write a GA story whether you take
him flying or not. The trick will be making sure that if he does write a
story, it comes out positive.

Unfortunately, that's a bit trickier than just avoiding embarrassing and
overweight potential passenger.

Good luck!



"Roger Long" > wrote in message
. ..
> Where is Miss Manners when you need her. I think I've gotten myself in a
> real jam.
>
> Our club could really use some publicity. I saw a very nice article about
a
> flying school in a nearby city so I called the reporter and offered to
take
> him flying. He is quite interested in doing a story on the club and asked
if
> the other reporter on his beat could come along.
>
> I told him that would be fine but I would need to know their weights so I
> could adjust the fuel load in our 172 N. He emailed back that he is 350
lbs.
>
> I'm quite sure that the seats are not rated for anywhere near that. Even
if
> they are, as the maintenance officer who has had these 28 year old seats
out
> many times to repair the trim and covering, there is no way I want to put
> 350 pounds on them.
>
> Now what do I do? One thing for sure, it's the last time I ask someone I
> haven't met to go flying.
>
>
> --
>
> Roger Long
>
>
>
>

[C J Campbell]

Oof! How much does the other reporter weigh?

Anyway, there is no way a 350 lb guy is going to fit in a 172. I have known
such who flew in specially modified 182s from the back seat. He is
undoubtedly used to being told that his weight is an issue.

[alexy]

"William W. Plummer" > wrote:

>Roger Long wrote:
>
>> Where is Miss Manners when you need her. I think I've gotten myself in a
>> real jam.
>>
>> Our club could really use some publicity. I saw a very nice article about a
>> flying school in a nearby city so I called the reporter and offered to take
>> him flying. He is quite interested in doing a story on the club and asked if
>> the other reporter on his beat could come along.
>>
>> I told him that would be fine but I would need to know their weights so I
>> could adjust the fuel load in our 172 N. He emailed back that he is 350 lbs.
>>
>> I'm quite sure that the seats are not rated for anywhere near that. Even if
>> they are, as the maintenance officer who has had these 28 year old seats out
>> many times to repair the trim and covering, there is no way I want to put
>> 350 pounds on them.
>>
>> Now what do I do? One thing for sure, it's the last time I ask someone I
>> haven't met to go flying.
>>
>>
>Please don't lie or try to be coy. Simply show him the weight and
>balance calculation and explain how his weight rules him out for the
>plane. Do you think he is unaware of his weight? That's silly.

I second that! One needn't be mean-spirited in telling him the weight
limits of the planes in your club. Making up an excuse to not fly him
may actually be more rude (and hurtful if the real reason comes out or
is suspected).
--
Alex
Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.

[Corky Scott]

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:24:58 GMT, "Roger Long" >
wrote:

>I told him that would be fine but I would need to know their weights so I
>could adjust the fuel load in our 172 N. He emailed back that he is 350 lbs.
>
>I'm quite sure that the seats are not rated for anywhere near that. Even if
>they are, as the maintenance officer who has had these 28 year old seats out
>many times to repair the trim and covering, there is no way I want to put
>350 pounds on them.
>
>Now what do I do? One thing for sure, it's the last time I ask someone I
>haven't met to go flying.

My opinion is you have no choice. You can't fly with him AND his
compatriot and you have to tell him that and tell him why. With full
fuel in our FBO's very new C172's, you exceed the maximum allowable
weight if you attempt to carry four FAA standard size people.

There are several Java script W&B calculators out there on the
internet, and I just ran the numbers for a 172N. Even with no one
else beside you and the 350lb reporter, it still put the mark off the
scale.

You have to tell him that you cannot safely carry him.

If anything, this should tell the media just how limited the weight
carrying ability many general aviation aircraft really are, which
should give them a clue as to what a poor bomb they'd make.

Corky Scott

[Gene Seibel]

"Roger Long" > wrote in message >...
> Where is Miss Manners when you need her. I think I've gotten myself in a
> real jam.
>
> Our club could really use some publicity. I saw a very nice article about a
> flying school in a nearby city so I called the reporter and offered to take
> him flying. He is quite interested in doing a story on the club and asked if
> the other reporter on his beat could come along.
>
> I told him that would be fine but I would need to know their weights so I
> could adjust the fuel load in our 172 N. He emailed back that he is 350 lbs.
>
> I'm quite sure that the seats are not rated for anywhere near that. Even if
> they are, as the maintenance officer who has had these 28 year old seats out
> many times to repair the trim and covering, there is no way I want to put
> 350 pounds on them.
>
> Now what do I do? One thing for sure, it's the last time I ask someone I
> haven't met to go flying.

Gravity discriminates. It should be outlawed.
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

[Peter Duniho]

"Roger Long" > wrote in message
. ..
> [...]
> I'm quite sure that the seats are not rated for anywhere near that. Even
if
> they are, as the maintenance officer who has had these 28 year old seats
out
> many times to repair the trim and covering, there is no way I want to put
> 350 pounds on them.

Why are you sure?

I knew a guy that large who was a pilot. My mechanic is that large, and
he's ridden in my plane with no problem. The seats in my plane are even
cheaper-built than a 172's.

350lbs is pretty big, but it's not clear to me why you think it's
disqualifying.

Pete

[Bob Chilcoat]

Isn't there a weight limit for the floor of a 172? 200 lb for each front
seat comes to mind. As a somewhat reformed fatty, I doubt very seriously
that he will be offended if you simply tell him that the plane cannot carry
a passenger of his size. Point out that if the floor fails he might have
one of those looooooong falls.

I have a similar problem with a 300+ friend who wants a ride in the Archer.
I think the W&B will be OK, but since we recently had to reskin the wing
under the wingwalk because of damage, I don't want him walking on the wing.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
America

"Corky Scott" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:24:58 GMT, "Roger Long" >
> wrote:
>
> >I told him that would be fine but I would need to know their weights so I
> >could adjust the fuel load in our 172 N. He emailed back that he is 350
lbs.
> >
> >I'm quite sure that the seats are not rated for anywhere near that. Even
if
> >they are, as the maintenance officer who has had these 28 year old seats
out
> >many times to repair the trim and covering, there is no way I want to put
> >350 pounds on them.
> >
> >Now what do I do? One thing for sure, it's the last time I ask someone I
> >haven't met to go flying.
>
> My opinion is you have no choice. You can't fly with him AND his
> compatriot and you have to tell him that and tell him why. With full
> fuel in our FBO's very new C172's, you exceed the maximum allowable
> weight if you attempt to carry four FAA standard size people.
>
> There are several Java script W&B calculators out there on the
> internet, and I just ran the numbers for a 172N. Even with no one
> else beside you and the 350lb reporter, it still put the mark off the
> scale.
>
> You have to tell him that you cannot safely carry him.
>
> If anything, this should tell the media just how limited the weight
> carrying ability many general aviation aircraft really are, which
> should give them a clue as to what a poor bomb they'd make.
>
> Corky Scott

[Peter Duniho]

"Bob Chilcoat" > wrote in message
...
> Isn't there a weight limit for the floor of a 172? 200 lb for each front
> seat comes to mind.

I can't imagine that it's 200lbs per seat. I know too many people over 200
lbs (myself included) who pilot or ride in 172s.

If there is such a limit, it's woefully poorly documented.

[Michael]

"C J Campbell" > wrote
> Anyway, there is no way a 350 lb guy is going to fit in a 172. I have known
> such who flew in specially modified 182s from the back seat. He is
> undoubtedly used to being told that his weight is an issue.

Don't bet on it. If we're talking about a 6'8" musclar type, you're
right. But if we're talking about some guy who is 5'10" and just
seriously overweight, no problem, he will fit. Seen it done.

Michael

[H.P.]

Don't screw around with reporters. You don't have a choice - calculate fuel
and take him up, even if it's only for 10 minutes. In exchange for some
seat repair, you'll have a media friend for life. The added business from
all the ink you get will more than pay for the seats, and then some. You
could even become a quotable source for future aviation stories.


"Roger Long" > wrote in message
. ..
> Where is Miss Manners when you need her. I think I've gotten myself in a
> real jam.
>
> Our club could really use some publicity. I saw a very nice article about
a
> flying school in a nearby city so I called the reporter and offered to
take
> him flying. He is quite interested in doing a story on the club and asked
if
> the other reporter on his beat could come along.
>
> I told him that would be fine but I would need to know their weights so I
> could adjust the fuel load in our 172 N. He emailed back that he is 350
lbs.
>
> I'm quite sure that the seats are not rated for anywhere near that. Even
if
> they are, as the maintenance officer who has had these 28 year old seats
out
> many times to repair the trim and covering, there is no way I want to put
> 350 pounds on them.
>
> Now what do I do? One thing for sure, it's the last time I ask someone I
> haven't met to go flying.
>
>
> --
>
> Roger Long
>
>
>
>

[Ben Jackson]

In article >,
Roger Long > wrote:
>I told him that would be fine but I would need to know their weights so I
>could adjust the fuel load in our 172 N. He emailed back that he is 350 lbs.

A 350lb guy will fit in a C-172.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Shiver Me Timbers]

> H.P. > wrote:

> you'll have a media friend for life. The added business from
> all the ink you get will more than pay for the seats, and then some.
> You could even become a quotable source for future aviation stories.

Exactly.

If you can't take them up together then take them up seperately.

If you can't take one up due to weight, then get a bigger plane.

Go out and find someone with a bigger airplane even if it's privately
owned. Explain your situation to the owner if necessary and make the
flight.

Simple problems need simple solutions, why are you making a mountain
out of a molehill.

[Chris W]

William W. Plummer wrote:

> Please don't lie or try to be coy. Simply show him the weight and
> balance calculation and explain how his weight rules him out for the
> plane. Do you think he is unaware of his weight? That's silly.


I whole heartedly agree with you on this. I have been in the position
where the natural tendency or would be to make an excuse or lie, instead
the person I was dealing with was straight forwarded, polite and very
honest. I came away from that experience with a great deal of respect
for that person.

However, first I would try to find some plane you could take him up in
even if you have to rent it.

--
Chris W

Bring Back the HP 15C
http://hp15c.org

Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help.
http://thewishzone.com

[Robert M. Gary]

"Roger Long" > wrote in message >...
> Where is Miss Manners when you need her. I think I've gotten myself in a
> real jam.
>
> Our club could really use some publicity. I saw a very nice article about a
> flying school in a nearby city so I called the reporter and offered to take
> him flying. He is quite interested in doing a story on the club and asked if
> the other reporter on his beat could come along.
>
> I told him that would be fine but I would need to know their weights so I
> could adjust the fuel load in our 172 N. He emailed back that he is 350 lbs.
>
> I'm quite sure that the seats are not rated for anywhere near that. Even if
> they are, as the maintenance officer who has had these 28 year old seats out
> many times to repair the trim and covering, there is no way I want to put
> 350 pounds on them.
>
> Now what do I do? One thing for sure, it's the last time I ask someone I
> haven't met to go flying.

Do you have a bigger plane? A 182 should work. A 210 should certainly
work. You don't need much fuel for this flight. You might need some
weight in the back to balance out.

-Robert

[Mike Beede]

In article >, Roger Long > wrote:

> I'm quite sure that the seats are not rated for anywhere near that. Even if
> they are, as the maintenance officer who has had these 28 year old seats out
> many times to repair the trim and covering, there is no way I want to put
> 350 pounds on them.

There is no per-seat weight limit in a 172. I've done lots of flying at
nearly 300 lb. with no difficulty. Unless you are pretty hefty, there
should be no reason you can't fly him alone. You probably can't get
him, you, and the other guy all at once, though.

There appears to be some misunderstanding about how heavy passengers
can be because of the way the weight and balance charts are printed, but
I've seen nothing to suggest they're in any way regulatory.

Of course, if you just want to get out of it, tell him anything you like.

Mike Beede

[G.R. Patterson III]

Roger Long wrote:
>
> Now what do I do? One thing for sure, it's the last time I ask someone I
> haven't met to go flying.

Politely explain to the man that the load limit on your seats is only <whatever>
pounds. In the case of my airplane, it's 250 pounds for the front and 240 pounds for
the rear. You could probably find the info for yours in the POH. Personally, I'm
willing to push the front seat limits a tad, but not 100 pounds worth.

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Roger Long wrote:
>
> Now what do I do? One thing for sure, it's the last time I ask someone I
> haven't met to go flying.

Just had a thought. Can you rent an aircraft capable of carrying him?

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

[jay somerset]

I have read several replies toyour post, and just have to add my
2-cents worth...

Yes, it will be inconvenient to take him, but you can do it in any
172, but you will not be able to take anyone else with you. He will
also have to sit in the rear seat, or your WandB will be out of
range. If you weigh more than 300 pounds, then you will also have to
go with a partial fuel load.

As they lone occupanrt of the rear seat, the seat belt will not be a
problem -- he can cross-connect for esxtras width, if necessary.

As with other respondents, I recommend being honest and open, and
explain the W and B restrictions, and show him by example, just how
limited small GA aircraft really are. He might even come to
disbelieve all the 'myths' that surround the danger of GA aircraft to
national security.


On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:24:58 GMT, "Roger Long" >
wrote:

>Where is Miss Manners when you need her. I think I've gotten myself in a
>real jam.
>
>Our club could really use some publicity. I saw a very nice article about a
>flying school in a nearby city so I called the reporter and offered to take
>him flying. He is quite interested in doing a story on the club and asked if
>the other reporter on his beat could come along.
>
>I told him that would be fine but I would need to know their weights so I
>could adjust the fuel load in our 172 N. He emailed back that he is 350 lbs.
>
>I'm quite sure that the seats are not rated for anywhere near that. Even if
>they are, as the maintenance officer who has had these 28 year old seats out
>many times to repair the trim and covering, there is no way I want to put
>350 pounds on them.
>
>Now what do I do? One thing for sure, it's the last time I ask someone I
>haven't met to go flying.

[Blanche]

More important, explaining the W&B will help the reporters understand
the limitations of various aircraft, and bring a modicum of
common sense to the discussions.

Well, I still believe in the Chocolate Curmudgeon, too!

(That's the job the Easter Bunny has the other 50 weeks of the year).

[Darrell]

It's not just a weight issue. I don't think a 172 would have enough
physical space to contain him (and you) in the front seats and if you put
him in the back seat you would probably have CG issues.
--

B-58 Hustler History: http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/
-

"Roger Long" > wrote in message
. ..
> Where is Miss Manners when you need her. I think I've gotten myself in a
> real jam.
>
> Our club could really use some publicity. I saw a very nice article about
> a
> flying school in a nearby city so I called the reporter and offered to
> take
> him flying. He is quite interested in doing a story on the club and asked
> if
> the other reporter on his beat could come along.
>
> I told him that would be fine but I would need to know their weights so I
> could adjust the fuel load in our 172 N. He emailed back that he is 350
> lbs.
>
> I'm quite sure that the seats are not rated for anywhere near that. Even
> if
> they are, as the maintenance officer who has had these 28 year old seats
> out
> many times to repair the trim and covering, there is no way I want to put
> 350 pounds on them.
>
> Now what do I do? One thing for sure, it's the last time I ask someone I
> haven't met to go flying.
>
>
> --
>
> Roger Long
>
>
>
>

[Rich Ahrens]

C J Campbell wrote:
> Oof! How much does the other reporter weigh?
>
> Anyway, there is no way a 350 lb guy is going to fit in a 172.

Nonsense.