Motorglider microphone wiring question

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

I am trying to help a customer out with a motorglider microphone wiring
question. I'm hoping someone here will have a suggestion.

Motorgliders often have both boom microphones and aviation headsets.
Obviously, the headsets are used when the motor is running and the boom
microphones are used when in gliding mode. It wouldn't work well to leave
the boom microphones live when the aviation headsets are in use because they
would pickup the engine noise. How are motorgliders wired so that only the
headset mics are used when the headsets are plugged in?

I suppose that a "boom mic enable" switch could be used to disable the boom
mics when not in use. But I think there is a way to have the boom
microphones disabled by a switch being opened mechanically when the headset
mic plug is plugged into the mic jack. Standard aviation mic jacks don't
have any way to accommodate that. Any suggestions?

The goal is to make it intuitive for the pilot - and reliable.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde

[Soartech]

You would have to install a new mike jack with a set of break-on-insertion contacts and run the boom mike through those contacts. Try something like a
Switchcraft L12B available at Mouser or Digikey.

[Ian[_5_]]

Are you asking about a motorglider..Grob 109 or similar, or a self launching
sailplane?
If the former, there's some good info in the Grob 109 yahoo group

"Soartech" wrote in message
...

You would have to install a new mike jack with a set of break-on-insertion
contacts and run the boom mike through those contacts. Try something like a
Switchcraft L12B available at Mouser or Digikey.

[Darryl Ramm]

"Paul Remde" > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to help a customer out with a motorglider microphone wiring
> question. I'm hoping someone here will have a suggestion.
>
> Motorgliders often have both boom microphones and aviation headsets.
> Obviously, the headsets are used when the motor is running and the boom
> microphones are used when in gliding mode. It wouldn't work well to
> leave the boom microphones live when the aviation headsets are in use
> because they would pickup the engine noise. How are motorgliders wired
> so that only the headset mics are used when the headsets are plugged in?
>
> I suppose that a "boom mic enable" switch could be used to disable the
> boom mics when not in use. But I think there is a way to have the boom
> microphones disabled by a switch being opened mechanically when the
> headset mic plug is plugged into the mic jack. Standard aviation mic
> jacks don't have any way to accommodate that. Any suggestions?
>
> The goal is to make it intuitive for the pilot - and reliable.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Paul Remde

Many motorgliders will have a switch to select which mic is used. The pilot
needs to think about how they use their headset and what type it is.
unplugging a cable to deactivate the boom mic is very impractical in many
setups especially if the headset sockets are a little awkward to reach.

Darryl

[Bryan Searle]

I had this problem. My solution was to use the radio to switch between
mic's using the menu system. The first one I tried (KR2) was no good - the
boom mic would break through with the engine on. Then I exchanged that for
an ATR833 and this totally suppressed the unused mic. The trick is to wire
the PTT switch to both Left and Right channels and just use the radio to
select Left (headset mic.) or Right (boom mic.)

I believe that DG use a relay that switches automatically with the engine
circuit. A complication ready to fail if you ask me!

Frankly, I rarely use the boom mic, I just put the headset behind the
headrest and use the headset mic. which is possibly better than the dynamic
boom mic because it is noise cancelling by design (the sound from both
sides cancels out). I am tempted to remove the boom mic. because it is in
the way, except that is a back-up....

End of message...

At 16:03 25 April 2014, Paul Remde wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I am trying to help a customer out with a motorglider microphone wiring
>question. I'm hoping someone here will have a suggestion.
>
>Motorgliders often have both boom microphones and aviation headsets.
>Obviously, the headsets are used when the motor is running and the boom
>microphones are used when in gliding mode. It wouldn't work well to leave

>the boom microphones live when the aviation headsets are in use because
>they
>would pickup the engine noise. How are motorgliders wired so that only
the
>
>headset mics are used when the headsets are plugged in?
>
>I suppose that a "boom mic enable" switch could be used to disable the
boom
>
>mics when not in use. But I think there is a way to have the boom
>microphones disabled by a switch being opened mechanically when the
headset
>
>mic plug is plugged into the mic jack. Standard aviation mic jacks don't

>have any way to accommodate that. Any suggestions?
>
>The goal is to make it intuitive for the pilot - and reliable.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Paul Remde
>
>

[JS]

I'm amazed that people try to use large headsets in Self-Launch Sailplanes. They are an excellent way to scratch the inside of the canopy. Also something to store when not in use, which is 95% of the time as I recall.
There are many "isolating ear bud" headphones available these days. Examples:

Shure
http://www.shure.com/americas/products/earphones-headphones/se-earphones

Ultimate Ears
http://www.ultimateears.com/en-us/900s

Ear buds are available from manufacturers or on Amazon, etc. for much less than an aviation headset, and fit in the glider's side pocket.
Install an 1/8" stereo headphone jack and use the same boom mic!
Jim

[darrylr]

On Friday, April 25, 2014 12:08:05 PM UTC-7, JS wrote:
> I'm amazed that people try to use large headsets in Self-Launch Sailplanes. They are an excellent way to scratch the inside of the canopy. Also something to store when not in use, which is 95% of the time as I recall.
>
> There are many "isolating ear bud" headphones available these days. Examples:
>
>
>
> Shure
>
> http://www.shure.com/americas/products/earphones-headphones/se-earphones
>
>
>
> Ultimate Ears
>
> http://www.ultimateears.com/en-us/900s
>
>
>
> Ear buds are available from manufacturers or on Amazon, etc. for much less than an aviation headset, and fit in the glider's side pocket.
>
> Install an 1/8" stereo headphone jack and use the same boom mic!
>
> Jim

Jim

As much as I know it's dangerous to stand in front of a good old rant on r.a.s, but umm nobody said anything about a large aviation headset. For all we know the owner could be using any one of several compact (often in-ear design) aviation headsets with boom microphones. Like the Comfort Aloft brand ones I like.

And these headsets with good canceling mics should have better mics than the typical glider gooseneck mic, but of course those standard mics may work just fine when the engine is running (if people know how to use them properly, ... oops heading off on a rant there...).

Darryl

[Dave Nadler]

On Friday, April 25, 2014 3:08:05 PM UTC-4, JS wrote:
> I'm amazed that people try to use large headsets in Self-Launch Sailplanes.
> They are an excellent way to scratch the inside of the canopy. Also
> something to store when not in use, which is 95% of the time as I recall.
>
> There are many "isolating ear bud" headphones available these days. Examples:
>
> Shure
> http://www.shure.com/americas/products/earphones-headphones/se-earphones
>
> Ultimate Ears
> http://www.ultimateears.com/en-us/900s
>
> Ear buds are available from manufacturers or on Amazon, etc. for much
> less than an aviation headset, and fit in the glider's side pocket.
>
> Install an 1/8" stereo headphone jack and use the same boom mic!
>
> Jim

I use a boom mike and a compact headset with no mic.
Of course, my Antares 20E is much quieter than other motorgliders.

One of my friends is very happy using Bose noise-cancelling
non-aviation earbuds in his (louder) ASH-26E with a boom
mic.

Neither of us switch microphones...

Hope that helps,
See ya, Dave "YO electric" (beat by Dick Butler again yesterday)

[Bryan Searle]

There is no way that you can use a boom mic with a petrol engine! The
vibration will couple directly through the fuselage attached boom and
produces a huge signal. The use of ear-buds is a great idea, but the cost
is somewhat eye-watering! I just use the cheapest Ebay aviation headset
which will collapse to a reasonable size, unlike the premium headsets.
Anyway, its is very difficult to converse with a self-launching 2 stroke at
+6000rpm just behind your head, however much you pay for a
headset/whatever.


At 19:08 25 April 2014, JS wrote:
>I'm amazed that people try to use large headsets in Self-Launch
Sailplanes.
>They are an excellent way to scratch the inside of the canopy. Also
>something to store when not in use, which is 95% of the time as I recall.
>There are many "isolating ear bud" headphones available these days.
>Examples:
>
>Shure
>http://www.shure.com/americas/products/earphones-headphones/se-earphones
>
>Ultimate Ears
>http://www.ultimateears.com/en-us/900s
>
>Ear buds are available from manufacturers or on Amazon, etc. for much
less
>than an aviation headset, and fit in the glider's side pocket.
>Install an 1/8" stereo headphone jack and use the same boom mic!
>Jim
>

[Darryl Ramm]

Bryan Searle > wrote:
> There is no way that you can use a boom mic with a petrol engine! The
> vibration will couple directly through the fuselage attached boom and
> produces a huge signal.

Before claiming something won't work you might actually want to check in
with all the folks who manage to do exactly what you are claiming will not
work. And as fun as it might be to think Dave might be wrong about
something he already offered an existence proof that it does work/is being
used. So he's wrong and a liar?

Microphones in motorgliders can be problematic with engine noise, ignition
pickup, increased need for proper microphone technique, etc. But any
blanket claim that a gooseneck microphone cannot work is just plain wrong.

A good quality canceling headset mic may be best but many motorglider
pilots are able to use the factory installed gooseneck mounted microphones
just fine. Dave was talking about a different pilot in an ASH-26E, but my
ASH-26E gooseneck mic is very usable when under power if it is properly
positioned near the mouth.

Darryl

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

Bryan Searle wrote, On 4/26/2014 12:56 AM:
> There is no way that you can use a boom mic with a petrol engine! The
> vibration will couple directly through the fuselage attached boom and
> produces a huge signal. The use of ear-buds is a great idea, but the cost
> is somewhat eye-watering! I just use the cheapest Ebay aviation headset
> which will collapse to a reasonable size, unlike the premium headsets.
> Anyway, its is very difficult to converse with a self-launching 2 stroke at
> +6000rpm just behind your head, however much you pay for a
> headset/whatever.

Vibration? What's that? I've used a boom microphone in my ASH 26 E for
19 years with no problems or complaints. I've used the cheapest ANR
headphones I could find in 1998, and they've worked fine, also, though
the sound reduction is quite acceptable even when the ANR is turned off.

I use the boom mike with a foam "muff" cover, and speak with my lips
touching the foam. I don't think a boom mike would work well in a noisy
cockpit if it's away from your lips.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

[Dave Nadler]

On Saturday, April 26, 2014 3:56:21 AM UTC-4, Bryan Searle wrote:
> There is no way that you can use a boom mic with a petrol engine! The
> vibration will couple directly through the fuselage attached boom and
> produces a huge signal.

My previous motor-glider (gas-powered) was delivered with
a fuselage-attached boom mike, which worked adequately.


> The use of ear-buds is a great idea, but the cost
> is somewhat eye-watering!

Compared to the cost of a motor-glider?


> I just use the cheapest Ebay aviation headset
> which will collapse to a reasonable size, unlike the premium headsets.

Should go well with a motor-glider purchased on eBay...

[Bryan Searle]

OK - I was wrong, it does appear possible to use a boom mic with a petrol
engine (Wankel?)! But I thought the idea of this thread was to gather
useful advice on new installations and switching mics. In general I hear
that vibration causes a lot of problems, so although a boom mic may work OK
it seems sensible not to advise its use with the engine on. Further, there
are alternatives to the traditional dynamic boom mic for gliders (not
supported by some radios) that may usefully be considered and preferred by
some.


At 21:19 26 April 2014, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>Bryan Searle wrote, On 4/26/2014 12:56 AM:
>> There is no way that you can use a boom mic with a petrol engine! The
>> vibration will couple directly through the fuselage attached boom and
>> produces a huge signal. The use of ear-buds is a great idea, but the
cost
>> is somewhat eye-watering! I just use the cheapest Ebay aviation headset
>> which will collapse to a reasonable size, unlike the premium headsets.
>> Anyway, its is very difficult to converse with a self-launching 2
stroke
>at
>> +6000rpm just behind your head, however much you pay for a
>> headset/whatever.
>
>Vibration? What's that? I've used a boom microphone in my ASH 26 E for
>19 years with no problems or complaints. I've used the cheapest ANR
>headphones I could find in 1998, and they've worked fine, also, though
>the sound reduction is quite acceptable even when the ANR is turned off.
>
>I use the boom mike with a foam "muff" cover, and speak with my lips
>touching the foam. I don't think a boom mike would work well in a noisy
>cockpit if it's away from your lips.
>
>--
>Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
>email me)
>- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
>https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
>- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
>http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl
>