Man Falls out of 152

[Chris W]

A friend of mine told me he was following this news story where 2 men
were flying in a 152 somewhere in Texas. While making a turn to the
right, the passenger fell out of the plane. This was a few days ago and
my friend hasn't heard any updates. Anyone here know about this and
heard anything else? The whole thing sounds a little fishy to me.


--
Chris W

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[Newps]

Chris W wrote:
> A friend of mine told me he was following this news story where 2 men
> were flying in a 152 somewhere in Texas. While making a turn to the
> right, the passenger fell out of the plane. This was a few days ago and
> my friend hasn't heard any updates. Anyone here know about this and
> heard anything else? The whole thing sounds a little fishy to me.


Not possible to fall out of a 152 even if there was no door. Go sit in
one sometime and it will become readily apparent.

[C J Campbell]

"Chris W" > wrote in message
news:ogq5d.366563$sh.266506@fed1read06...
> A friend of mine told me he was following this news story where 2 men
> were flying in a 152 somewhere in Texas. While making a turn to the
> right, the passenger fell out of the plane. This was a few days ago and
> my friend hasn't heard any updates. Anyone here know about this and
> heard anything else? The whole thing sounds a little fishy to me.
>

Was it this one? Anyway, every now and then the news will report on someone
committing suicide this way.

NTSB Identification: FTW03LA041.
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). Please contact
Public Inquiries
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Sunday, November 17, 2002 in Houston, TX
Probable Cause Approval Date: 9/30/2003
Aircraft: Cessna 152, registration: N4794P
Injuries: 1 Fatal, 1 Uninjured.
When the private pilot scheduled the instructional flight, he stated that he
had an ear operation and needed to see how his ears would feel at altitude
before he went for an FAA medical certificate. He also stated that he was
contemplating doing some aerial photography, and wanted to see how the
aerial visibility was from the airplane during turns at altitude. He flew
the airplane to an altitude of 9,500 feet msl where he opened the left
window, stated that he wanted to check his ears, and requested that the CFI
fly the airplane. The private pilot made two request for the CFI to increase
the angle of bank. Subsequently, the flight instructor increased the turn to
45-degree bank and started a 300 to 500 foot per minute descent rate. The
CFI heard a "noise that sounded like maybe the seat belt hitting the side of
the [air]plane" and the CFI looked to his left and saw the private pilot
exiting the airplane. The CFI noticed the #1 radio was already tuned to
121.5 MHz (emergency frequency). The CFI notified the controller that the
private pilot had exited the airplane. The CFI landed the airplane without
incident. Examination of the aircraft restraint system and the left cabin
door did not reveal any discrepancies. Evidence and statements obtained by
friends and co-workers of the private pilot indicated an ongoing treatment
for depression and a recent intent to take his own life by using an
aircraft. A note found in the private pilot's vehicle stated in part: "I'm
tired of being depressed. I've been this way for almost 2 months. I'm about
ready to do anything to stop feeling this way."

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of
this accident as follows:

The dual student's intentional suicide by exiting from the airplane during
descent. A contributing factor was the psychological condition of the dual
student.

[Chris W]

Newps wrote:

> Not possible to fall out of a 152 even if there was no door. Go sit in
> one sometime and it will become readily apparent.
>


I've been in a 152 before, it was several years ago, but I distinctly
remember that it was very difficult to get in and out, I could hardly
get my knee past the opening. I think it would be much easier to "fall"
out head first though.

--
Chris W

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[Chris W]

C J Campbell wrote:

> Was it this one? Anyway, every now and then the news will report on
someone
> committing suicide this way.
>
> NTSB Identification: FTW03LA041. . . .

That sounds a lot like what he was telling me but he made it sound like
it happened recently, he also gave a town and it wasn't Huston, I would
have remembered that. I will have to print this out and show him next
time I see him and see if this is what he read about. Thanks for the
report.

--
Chris W

Bring Back the HP 15C
http://hp15c.org

Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help.
http://thewishzone.com

[Montblack]

"C J Campbell"
> The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s)
of
> this accident as follows:
>
> The dual student's intentional suicide by exiting from the airplane during
> descent. A contributing factor was the psychological condition of the dual
> student.


IIRC, it was a darn funny thread!!!

What? It's not like the guy landed on anyone :-)

Montblack

[C J Campbell]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> "C J Campbell"
> > The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
cause(s)
> of
> > this accident as follows:
> >
> > The dual student's intentional suicide by exiting from the airplane
during
> > descent. A contributing factor was the psychological condition of the
dual
> > student.
>
>
> IIRC, it was a darn funny thread!!!
>
> What? It's not like the guy landed on anyone :-)

The only thing I remember about the thread was whether the instructor
could/should have prevented the man from turning himself into a human lawn
dart and whether the instructor was telling the truth that he did not notice
the man opening the door.

Of course, anyone who would try this probably could not care less if they
landed on someone. People who are that depressed are invariably so wrapped
up in themselves and their imaginary problems that the rest of the world
barely exists for them. In fact, one of the reasons they kill themselves is
to hurt others. "They'll be sorry when I'm gone" is a common refrain.

It is really too bad. Depression is often treatable and usually temporary.
Most people suffer varying degrees of depression at some time in their
lives. It would be a heck of a note if we just let them all kill themselves.

[Scott D.]

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 20:17:52 -0700, "C J Campbell"
> wrote:

>
>"Chris W" > wrote in message
>news:ogq5d.366563$sh.266506@fed1read06...
>> A friend of mine told me he was following this news story where 2 men
>> were flying in a 152 somewhere in Texas. While making a turn to the
>> right, the passenger fell out of the plane. This was a few days ago and
>> my friend hasn't heard any updates. Anyone here know about this and
>> heard anything else? The whole thing sounds a little fishy to me.
>>
>
>Was it this one? Anyway, every now and then the news will report on someone
>committing suicide this way.
>
>NTSB Identification: FTW03LA041.
>The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). Please contact
>Public Inquiries
>14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
>Accident occurred Sunday, November 17, 2002 in Houston, TX
>Probable Cause Approval Date: 9/30/2003

That's the one that came to my mind when I read the OP. The plane
originated out of DWH if I recall correctly and the body was located
in a field outside of Hempstead by a farmer a week or so later. The
guy was a NASA employee that was being investigated for theft of a
laptop with classified material on it according to the Houston
Chronicle among other things. He definitely did not "fall" out, he
jumped.


I just wonder what happened to the CFI that was in the plane. You
know that had to shake him up a little mentally.


Scott D.

[Shiver Me Timbers]

> Scott D. wrote:

> He definitely did not "fall" out, he jumped.

> I just wonder what happened to the CFI that was in the plane. You
> know that had to shake him up a little mentally.

Don't forget about the guy (senior) who went for a ride in a biplane
and decided to end it all by unstrapping himself and going over the
side.

[Rocky]

Chris W > wrote in message news:<ogq5d.366563$sh.266506@fed1read06>...
> A friend of mine told me he was following this news story where 2 men
> were flying in a 152 somewhere in Texas. While making a turn to the
> right, the passenger fell out of the plane. This was a few days ago and
> my friend hasn't heard any updates. Anyone here know about this and
> heard anything else? The whole thing sounds a little fishy to me.

That sounds a WHOLE LOT fishy to me. In fact, I'd say it is impossible
unless the individual worked at getting out of the airplane in flight.
I am currently teaching three primary students and showed them how
hard it was to open the door of a C-152 in flight. I did it to
alleviate their fears of falling out of the airplane if a door popped
open which happens from time to time.
Ol Shy & Bashful

[Bill Denton]

I've got to take issue with you on this statement: "People who are that
depressed are invariably so wrapped up in themselves and their imaginary
problems that the rest of the world barely exists for them. In fact, one of
the reasons they kill themselves is to hurt others. "They'll be sorry when
I'm gone" is a common refrain."

"Imaginary problems"? - There are always hypochondriacs with imaginary
problems, but most people who suffer from depression are dealing with very
real problems. And it is these real problems that frequently trigger or
exacerbate depression. And there is also depression that is the result of a
chemical imbalance in the brain, which may have no connections with a
sufferers problems (or lack thereof).

"In fact, one of the reasons they kill themselves is to hurt others". -
Successful suicides frequently agonize a great deal over the pain their
death will cause others. They worry about the pain, financial aspects, and
many other ways in which their death will impact their children, spouses,
siblings, and other relatives and friends. They know that by ending their
life they may keep a situation from getting worse, but even though they are
gone, their family still doesn't have any money, or the deceased may still
be branded a "sex offender", or whatever problems may have existed are still
there.

Another point: once a person has made a decision to end their life, they
frequently go into an upbeat, often euphoric state that lasts up until they
commit the act. Their problems are going to end, why should they worry or be
depressed? Why should they want to hurt others?

"They'll be sorry when I'm gone" is a common refrain." - And it's the
refrain of the teenage girl with the razorblade who cuts across her wrist
even though she well knows that you have to cut lengthwise on the wrist to
kill yourself. This is typically a cry for attention or a form of
"blackmail" they are using to try to get their way on something. Since death
is really not the goal, most mental health professionals can have a good
outcome with these patients. But more and more teenagers are successfully
committing suicide, and this should be a concern (at some level) of all
parents of teenagers. I'm not going to write a manual on the raising of
teenagers; there are plenty of good ones out there. And there are plenty of
mental health professionals who can provide help. Don't be embarrassed to
consult one if one is needed.

Just felt some clarification was needed...







"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Montblack" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "C J Campbell"
> > > The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
> cause(s)
> > of
> > > this accident as follows:
> > >
> > > The dual student's intentional suicide by exiting from the airplane
> during
> > > descent. A contributing factor was the psychological condition of the
> dual
> > > student.
> >
> >
> > IIRC, it was a darn funny thread!!!
> >
> > What? It's not like the guy landed on anyone :-)
>
> The only thing I remember about the thread was whether the instructor
> could/should have prevented the man from turning himself into a human lawn
> dart and whether the instructor was telling the truth that he did not
notice
> the man opening the door.
>
> Of course, anyone who would try this probably could not care less if they
> landed on someone. People who are that depressed are invariably so wrapped
> up in themselves and their imaginary problems that the rest of the world
> barely exists for them. In fact, one of the reasons they kill themselves
is
> to hurt others. "They'll be sorry when I'm gone" is a common refrain.
>
> It is really too bad. Depression is often treatable and usually temporary.
> Most people suffer varying degrees of depression at some time in their
> lives. It would be a heck of a note if we just let them all kill
themselves.
>
>

[Michael 182]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Montblack" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "C J Campbell"
> People who are that depressed are invariably so wrapped
> up in themselves and their imaginary problems ...

This vastly understates what can be, and often is, a very serious and
debilitating medical condition. Depression is not something you just "face
and get over".

Michael

[Rutger]

It was real, and was a suicide. Happened in November 2002, not "a few days ago".

See NTSB report number FTW03LA041 for the full details

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20021121X05504&ntsbno=FTW03LA041&akey=1


Chris W > wrote in message news:<ogq5d.366563$sh.266506@fed1read06>...
> A friend of mine told me he was following this news story where 2 men
> were flying in a 152 somewhere in Texas. While making a turn to the
> right, the passenger fell out of the plane. This was a few days ago and
> my friend hasn't heard any updates. Anyone here know about this and
> heard anything else? The whole thing sounds a little fishy to me.

[Montblack]

("Bill Denton" wrote)
>But more and more teenagers are successfully
> committing suicide, and this should be a concern (at some level) of all
> parents of teenagers.


Minneapolis paper did a very good story, a few years ago, on teenage suicide
numbers in Minnesota. I was surprised to see that the number of attempts was
close for boys vs. girls. The boys, however, were 2x more successful at
ending it all - boys use guns, girls use pills. Boys hang themselves, girls
use pills, etc.

I've often viewed depression as something akin to emotional epilepsy, or
maybe emotional Parkinson's. Tough for others to see, and understand, and
even tougher to just deal with if you're afflicted with it.


Mont (having a good day) black

[Dave S]

This happened.. northwest of Houston, sometime about a year or two ago.
The airplane belonged to National Aviation based out of Hooks (KDWH).
The "skydiver" was a non-current pilot who was a NASA employee
(contractor I believe) who was under investigation for possession of
stolen NASA computer equipment.

He approached National Aviation under the guise of wanting to get some
currency instructions and take pictures. As a result, the aircraft
climbed to a fairly high altitude (for a 152) and had the instructor in
the right seat performing a turn (i am assuming to the right, since the
instructor wasn't looking at his passenger. The passenger switched the
transponder to 7700 unseen, unbuckled his belt, unplugged his headset,
and did a head first dive out the door. I'm sure the intructor was
caught quite by surprise. The instructor then returned to Hooks.

The "skydivers" body was found a few days later when the vultures were
circling.

I have logged time in the accident airplane a few years before this, but
I didn't know the person(s) involved. I would say this wasn't so much a
case of "falling out" of a 152 as "diving out" of a 152.

Dave
Houston

Chris W wrote:
> A friend of mine told me he was following this news story where 2 men
> were flying in a 152 somewhere in Texas. While making a turn to the
> right, the passenger fell out of the plane. This was a few days ago and
> my friend hasn't heard any updates. Anyone here know about this and
> heard anything else? The whole thing sounds a little fishy to me.
>
>

[Dan Thomas]

Chris W > wrote in message news:<ogq5d.366563$sh.266506@fed1read06>...
> A friend of mine told me he was following this news story where 2 men
> were flying in a 152 somewhere in Texas. While making a turn to the
> right, the passenger fell out of the plane. This was a few days ago and
> my friend hasn't heard any updates. Anyone here know about this and
> heard anything else? The whole thing sounds a little fishy to me.

More than a year ago, I think. Sounds like suicide. You'd have a hard
time getting the door open and "falling" out, especially if the pilot
had anything to say about it.

Dan

[C J Campbell]

"Michael 182" > wrote in message
news:yhB5d.265095$Fg5.91420@attbi_s53...
>
> "C J Campbell" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Montblack" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> "C J Campbell"
> > People who are that depressed are invariably so wrapped
> > up in themselves and their imaginary problems ...
>
> This vastly understates what can be, and often is, a very serious and
> debilitating medical condition. Depression is not something you just "face
> and get over".

I agree with that. I hope that no one thinks that these days.

[NW_PILOT]

"Bill Denton" > wrote in message
...
> I've got to take issue with you on this statement: "People who are that
> depressed are invariably so wrapped up in themselves and their imaginary
> problems that the rest of the world barely exists for them. In fact, one
of
> the reasons they kill themselves is to hurt others. "They'll be sorry when
> I'm gone" is a common refrain."
>
> "Imaginary problems"? - There are always hypochondriacs with imaginary
> problems, but most people who suffer from depression are dealing with very
> real problems. And it is these real problems that frequently trigger or
> exacerbate depression. And there is also depression that is the result of
a
> chemical imbalance in the brain, which may have no connections with a
> sufferers problems (or lack thereof).
>
> "In fact, one of the reasons they kill themselves is to hurt others". -
> Successful suicides frequently agonize a great deal over the pain their
> death will cause others. They worry about the pain, financial aspects, and
> many other ways in which their death will impact their children, spouses,
> siblings, and other relatives and friends. They know that by ending their
> life they may keep a situation from getting worse, but even though they
are
> gone, their family still doesn't have any money, or the deceased may still
> be branded a "sex offender", or whatever problems may have existed are
still
> there.
>
> Another point: once a person has made a decision to end their life, they
> frequently go into an upbeat, often euphoric state that lasts up until
they
> commit the act. Their problems are going to end, why should they worry or
be
> depressed? Why should they want to hurt others?
>
> "They'll be sorry when I'm gone" is a common refrain." - And it's the
> refrain of the teenage girl with the razorblade who cuts across her wrist
> even though she well knows that you have to cut lengthwise on the wrist to
> kill yourself. This is typically a cry for attention or a form of
> "blackmail" they are using to try to get their way on something. Since
death
> is really not the goal, most mental health professionals can have a good
> outcome with these patients. But more and more teenagers are successfully
> committing suicide, and this should be a concern (at some level) of all
> parents of teenagers. I'm not going to write a manual on the raising of
> teenagers; there are plenty of good ones out there. And there are plenty
of
> mental health professionals who can provide help. Don't be embarrassed to
> consult one if one is needed.
>
> Just felt some clarification was needed...
>

Bill, I agree with you on most all of what you said. In my 28 years of being
stranded on this rock. I have to say, I have been to 1 to many funerals of
friends and family for that stupid selfish reason.

[Rocky]

Dave S > wrote in message t>...
> This happened.. northwest of Houston, sometime about a year or two ago.
> The airplane belonged to National Aviation based out of Hooks (KDWH).
> The "skydiver" was a non-current pilot who was a NASA employee
> (contractor I believe) who was under investigation for possession of
> stolen NASA computer equipment.
>
> He approached National Aviation under the guise of wanting to get some
> currency instructions and take pictures. As a result, the aircraft
> climbed to a fairly high altitude (for a 152) and had the instructor in
> the right seat performing a turn (i am assuming to the right, since the
> instructor wasn't looking at his passenger. The passenger switched the
> transponder to 7700 unseen, unbuckled his belt, unplugged his headset,
> and did a head first dive out the door. I'm sure the intructor was
> caught quite by surprise. The instructor then returned to Hooks.
***********
Excuse me but I have to say a loud...VERY LOUD BULL%%**** for the CFI
to sit there while the left seat guy worked his way out of the
aircraft and didn't know it??? Come on now...lets take a deep breath
and start over. The C152 is a shoulder to shoulder aircraft. The doors
will not come open farther than about 6" in flight with prop blast and
slipstream. To reach up and switch the XPDR to 7700 unseen(?),
unbuckle the seat belt(?), unplug the headset(?) (for what possible
purpose??) and do a head first dive out of the airplane? And the CFI
was quite caught by surprise?
That stretches the bounds of incredulity to say the least. I don't buy
into this one.
OGHF and 22,000 hours flying time
>
> The "skydivers" body was found a few days later when the vultures were
> circling.
>
> I have logged time in the accident airplane a few years before this, but
> I didn't know the person(s) involved. I would say this wasn't so much a
> case of "falling out" of a 152 as "diving out" of a 152.
>
> Dave
> Houston
>
> Chris W wrote:
> > A friend of mine told me he was following this news story where 2 men
> > were flying in a 152 somewhere in Texas. While making a turn to the
> > right, the passenger fell out of the plane. This was a few days ago and
> > my friend hasn't heard any updates. Anyone here know about this and
> > heard anything else? The whole thing sounds a little fishy to me.
> >
> >