Too much information for ATC?

[David Brooks]

The other day I wanted to fly VFR across RITTS, which is both the LOM for
the ILS, and the origin for the NDB approach, to PAE. I was traveling east
at right angles to the approach course. I decided to call Center, who
handles approaches in these parts. Although it was clear VFR and I know he
could see me on his scope, I thought it would be polite to tell him my
intentions and give him a confirmed altitude.

He gave me a bored Roger and asked if I wanted FF.

To the controllers in this group, was that a marginally helpful call to
make, neutral, or annoying? Should I have only bothered if I had heard
another craft setting up an approach?

-- David Brooks

[David Brooks]

"David Brooks" > wrote in message
...
> The other day I wanted to fly VFR across RITTS, which is both the LOM for
> the ILS, and the origin for the NDB approach, to PAE. I was traveling east
> at right angles to the approach course. I decided to call Center, who
> handles approaches in these parts. Although it was clear VFR and I know he
> could see me on his scope, I thought it would be polite to tell him my
> intentions and give him a confirmed altitude.
>
> He gave me a bored Roger and asked if I wanted FF.
>
> To the controllers in this group, was that a marginally helpful call to
> make, neutral, or annoying? Should I have only bothered if I had heard
> another craft setting up an approach?

Now I've re-read the first sentence, I want to clarify - I wasn't flying to
PAE, at least not for another hour. That phrase was to identify the
approaches. Sloppy sentence construction, I know.

-- David Brooks

[Nathan Young]

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 14:35:35 -0700, "David Brooks"
> wrote:

>The other day I wanted to fly VFR across RITTS, which is both the LOM for
>the ILS, and the origin for the NDB approach, to PAE. I was traveling east
>at right angles to the approach course. I decided to call Center, who
>handles approaches in these parts. Although it was clear VFR and I know he
>could see me on his scope, I thought it would be polite to tell him my
>intentions and give him a confirmed altitude.
>
>He gave me a bored Roger and asked if I wanted FF.
>
>To the controllers in this group, was that a marginally helpful call to
>make, neutral, or annoying? Should I have only bothered if I had heard
>another craft setting up an approach?

I am trying to visualize what took place.

You were flying VFR (presumably not talking to ATC), and made a callup
to ATC to let them know you were in the area? What kind of airspace?
What info did your callup include?

[Peter Duniho]

"Nathan Young" > wrote in message
...
> I am trying to visualize what took place.
>
> You were flying VFR (presumably not talking to ATC), and made a callup
> to ATC to let them know you were in the area? What kind of airspace?

The airspace in question is plain old Class E.

[David Brooks]

"Nathan Young" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 14:35:35 -0700, "David Brooks"
> > wrote:
>
> >The other day I wanted to fly VFR across RITTS, which is both the LOM for
> >the ILS, and the origin for the NDB approach, to PAE. I was traveling
east
> >at right angles to the approach course. I decided to call Center, who
> >handles approaches in these parts. Although it was clear VFR and I know
he
> >could see me on his scope, I thought it would be polite to tell him my
> >intentions and give him a confirmed altitude.
> >
> >He gave me a bored Roger and asked if I wanted FF.
> >
> >To the controllers in this group, was that a marginally helpful call to
> >make, neutral, or annoying? Should I have only bothered if I had heard
> >another craft setting up an approach?
>
> I am trying to visualize what took place.
>
> You were flying VFR (presumably not talking to ATC), and made a callup
> to ATC to let them know you were in the area? What kind of airspace?
> What info did your callup include?

Class E, a few miles outside PAE's D. My info was "callsign, VFR, crossing
RITTS eastbound, level 2500. Just giving you a verified altitude".

I know you can expect to find plenty of instrument student/currency flights
crossing RITTS southbound at either 2000 or 3000. I hadn't been listening
long enough to hear if there were any.

-- David Brooks

[Nathan Young]

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:38:36 -0700, "David Brooks"
> wrote:

>
>"Nathan Young" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 14:35:35 -0700, "David Brooks"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >The other day I wanted to fly VFR across RITTS, which is both the LOM for
>> >the ILS, and the origin for the NDB approach, to PAE. I was traveling
>east
>> >at right angles to the approach course. I decided to call Center, who
>> >handles approaches in these parts. Although it was clear VFR and I know
>he
>> >could see me on his scope, I thought it would be polite to tell him my
>> >intentions and give him a confirmed altitude.
>> >
>> >He gave me a bored Roger and asked if I wanted FF.
>> >
>> >To the controllers in this group, was that a marginally helpful call to
>> >make, neutral, or annoying? Should I have only bothered if I had heard
>> >another craft setting up an approach?
>>
>> I am trying to visualize what took place.
>>
>> You were flying VFR (presumably not talking to ATC), and made a callup
>> to ATC to let them know you were in the area? What kind of airspace?
>> What info did your callup include?
>
>Class E, a few miles outside PAE's D. My info was "callsign, VFR, crossing
>RITTS eastbound, level 2500. Just giving you a verified altitude".
>
>I know you can expect to find plenty of instrument student/currency flights
>crossing RITTS southbound at either 2000 or 3000. I hadn't been listening
>long enough to hear if there were any.

Unless you were going to head into PAE (and stay in touch with tower),
the call was not the norm for VFR radio procedures. I doubt the
controller found it annoying, but he/she probably was confused.

Typically a position report like that would be given when requesting
some type of service, for example: FF, transition through the D, or
landing at the D. That's probably what confused the controller, which
led to the less than enthusiastic response and then the question of
whether or not you wanted FF.

-Nathan

[Dan Luke]

"David Brooks" wrote:
> He gave me a bored Roger and asked if I wanted FF.

In my experience, controllers react negatively to pilots' "making up"
procedures and phraseology unless there is a pressing need or unusual
situation. If you want to be sure radar is watching you, check in as
required by the FARs or described in the AIM.
--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM