"Laser injures Delta pilot's eye"

[Mike]

Laser injures Delta pilot's eye
A pilot flying a Delta Air Lines jet was injured by a laser that
illuminated the cockpit of the aircraft as it approached Salt Lake
City International Airport last week, U.S. officials said.
at http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040928-111356-3924r.htm

[Larry Dighera]

On 29 Sep 2004 07:58:03 -0700, (Mike) wrote in
>::

>Laser injures Delta pilot's eye
>A pilot flying a Delta Air Lines jet was injured by a laser that
>illuminated the cockpit of the aircraft as it approached Salt Lake
>City International Airport last week, U.S. officials said.
>at http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040928-111356-3924r.htm


Welcome to the 21st century where technology enables the irrational to
realize their worst nightmares.

...

John Mazor, a spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association, said
commercial pilots have been exposed to laser illumination.
"The Air Line Pilots Association has received reports in the
past of incidents where lasers penetrated cockpits and, in at
least one case, caused injury," Mr. Mazor said.
Several years ago, a pilot flying into a Western airport was
hit by a light from a laser light show. The causes of the other
incidents are not known, he said.
Asked whether a laser aimed at pilots could cause a plane to
crash, Mr. Mazor said: "I think that's highly improbable. In every
case in the past, the flights landed safely."
Military personnel also have suffered eye damage from laser
illumination.
In one case, Naval Lt. Cmdr. Jack Daly and Canadian helicopter
pilot Capt. Pat Barnes suffered eye injuries hours after an aerial
surveillance mission to photograph a Russian merchant ship that
had been shadowing the ballistic-missile submarine USS Ohio in
Washington state's Strait of Juan de Fuca.
The Navy recently turned down an appeal from the Defense
Department inspector general to award Cmdr. Daly a Purple Heart
for the incident. Cmdr. Daly, who retired from the service last
year, continues to suffer eye pain and deteriorating vision.
During congressional testimony in 1999, he warned of laser
threats to pilots.
"Numerous documented cases regarding the use of lasers against
aircraft, civilians and military personnel exist, as well as does
an all-too-lengthy list of the injuries that have resulted from
the accidental and intentional misuse of these devices," Cmdr.
Daly told a House Armed Services subcommittee.
He noted that incidents of lasers being directed at commercial
airliners during takeoff and landings have raised fears that "this
in fact may be a new form of terrorism."
"Lasers are easily obtainable and can be self-manufactured
weapons in the terrorist arsenal, which essentially can effect a
soft-kill solution and leave virtually no detectable evidence," he
said.

[Andrew Gideon]

Larry Dighera wrote:

> "Lasers are easily obtainable and can be self-manufactured
> weapons in the terrorist arsenal, which essentially can effect a
> soft-kill solution and leave virtually no detectable evidence," he
> said.

The "Hunt for Red October" author used something similar in one of his
books. A spy used such a technique to bring down enemy aircraft by
"flashing" them while on short final.

He also used the idea of airliners flown into buildings well before 2001.

- Andrew

[AES/newspost]

In article >,
Larry Dighera > wrote:

> On 29 Sep 2004 07:58:03 -0700, (Mike) wrote in
> >::
>
> >Laser injures Delta pilot's eye
> >A pilot flying a Delta Air Lines jet was injured by a laser that
> >illuminated the cockpit of the aircraft as it approached Salt Lake
> >City International Airport last week, U.S. officials said.
> >at http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040928-111356-3924r.htm

> Military personnel also have suffered eye damage from laser
> illumination.
> In one case, Naval Lt. Cmdr. Jack Daly and Canadian helicopter
> pilot Capt. Pat Barnes suffered eye injuries hours after an aerial
> surveillance mission to photograph a Russian merchant ship that
> had been shadowing the ballistic-missile submarine USS Ohio in
> Washington state's Strait of Juan de Fuca.
> The Navy recently turned down an appeal from the Defense
> Department inspector general to award Cmdr. Daly a Purple Heart
> for the incident. Cmdr. Daly, who retired from the service last
> year, continues to suffer eye pain and deteriorating vision.

In the vast majority of these cases, "dazzled", and ergo potentially
"endangered" would be valid terms, "injured" would not.

The primary hazard to pilots from laser radiation at the distances and
with the most commonly used types of lasers in the light-show and even
in the military scenarios is going to be the kinds of instantaneous and
short-term visual impairments that would be associated with the term
"dazzling" -- that is, loss of night vision, temporary loss of all
vision of the sort resulting from looking at any bright light source,
possible severe disorientation if the pilot keeps trying to look at
instruments or outside the aircraft while this dazzling continues --
rather than permanent eye damage or injury. Temporary deterioration
of vision caused by such dazzling effects is obviously a very serious
matter; but it would require quite unusual optical beam power levels to
produce permanent eye damage or injury from a laser beam in aviation
situations.

My understanding is that deliberate dazzling of enemy pilots has in fact
been used in various military situations in recent years, but public
information concerning this is limited.

I do have some familiarity with the Daly case. Both a prolonged,
detailed and extensive investigation by the U.S. Navy and also the jury
verdict in a subsequent civil damages trial concluded that it was very
unlikely Daly was even illuminated by a laser beam during the mission
referred to, much less injured by it. There are also other quite
questionable assertions even in the one paragraph quoted above.

[Ron Natalie]

=
> He also used the idea of airliners flown into buildings well before 2001.
>
Airplanes have flown into buildings well before 2001.

[Jay Masino]

Ron Natalie > wrote:
> =
>> He also used the idea of airliners flown into buildings well before 2001.
>>
> Airplanes have flown into buildings well before 2001.

Plus, the whole idea of taking down an airliner with this method is flawed
because you'd really have to take out both pilots.

--- Jay


--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.oceancityairport.com
http://www.oc-adolfos.com

[Casey Wilson]

"Mike" > wrote in message
om...
> Laser injures Delta pilot's eye
> A pilot flying a Delta Air Lines jet was injured by a laser that
> illuminated the cockpit of the aircraft as it approached Salt Lake
> City International Airport last week, U.S. officials said.
> at http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040928-111356-3924r.htm

I read the article. In a former life, I worked in a laser laboratory
with high-powered lasers capable of inducing significant damage. Laser
damage, when it occurs, is instantaneous and irreversible. That's part one.
Part two, divergence and scattering through the atmosphere will
significantly reduce the energy per unit area. At any range over a few
thousand feet you'd need a weapons grade laser to produce anything more than
the so-called dazzle effect.
Part three, the dazzle effect can be dangerous if it affects a person's
ability to perform a required task -- whether it is a pilot or a tank
driver.
Part four, weapons grade lasers don't operate in the visible spectrum
(mostly) and don't cause dazzles. (Why? Because if you operate a laser in
the visible spectrum on a battlefield someone is going to shoot at you.)
Part five, lasers used in light shows don't have the energy required to
cause tissue damage outside a few meters range.
For the moment, I'm skeptical of the damage to the Delta pilot's eyes.
Oh, I almost forgot, I was involved in an incident where a person got
flashed with a laser. The investigation lasted more than three months. The
end result was "Mr. (blank)'s left eye was not damaged by the (blank)
laser." The report went on to say the symptoms were psychosomatic.

[Richard Hertz]

"Jay Masino" > wrote in message
...
> Ron Natalie > wrote:
> > =
> >> He also used the idea of airliners flown into buildings well before
2001.
> >>
> > Airplanes have flown into buildings well before 2001.
>
> Plus, the whole idea of taking down an airliner with this method is flawed
> because you'd really have to take out both pilots.
>
> --- Jay


From what I recall it wasn't a laser, rather an extremely bright light aimed
at the cockpit during a landing or takeoff and incapacitated both pilots so
that the plane hit the ground hard.

Clancy is a fiction writer.

He's not the first to make stuff up.



>
>
> --
> __!__
> Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
> http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
> http://www.oceancityairport.com
> http://www.oc-adolfos.com

[Montblack]

("Jay Masino" wrote)
> Plus, the whole idea of taking down an airliner with this method is flawed
> because you'd really have to take out both pilots.


Flawed?

It's child's play. You wait in the weeds with your ..."laser" until the first
pilot has an aneurysm, then you zap the second pilot with the ..."laser."

Where's that surplus Agent Orange? TSA needs to get rid of terrorist-friendly
ground cover. Never mind, they're already spraying, late at night.


Montblack
"My dear fellow! This isn't Spain ... this is England!"
A Man For All Seasons (1966)
Winner of six Academy Awards - including Best Picture

[CV]

Ron Natalie wrote:
>>He also used the idea of airliners flown into buildings well before 2001.
>
> Airplanes have flown into buildings well before 2001.

Subtle shift in meaning there.

There was no widespread public awareness of the idea of them
_being_ flown into buildings before then.
CV

[Bill Denton]

Don't know for sure, but I imagine there was quite a bit of public awareness
when the B-25 went into the Empire State Building during WWII.



"CV" > wrote in message
...
>
> Ron Natalie wrote:
> >>He also used the idea of airliners flown into buildings well before
2001.
> >
> > Airplanes have flown into buildings well before 2001.
>
> Subtle shift in meaning there.
>
> There was no widespread public awareness of the idea of them
> _being_ flown into buildings before then.
> CV
>

[Dan Luke]

"Montblack" wrote:
> > Plus, the whole idea of taking down an airliner with this method is
flawed
> > because you'd really have to take out both pilots.
>
>
> Flawed?
>
> It's child's play. You wait in the weeds with your ..."laser" until the
first
> pilot has an aneurysm, then you zap the second pilot with the ..."laser."

HEE-HEE! Good one.
--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

[Andrew Gideon]

Bill Denton wrote:

> Don't know for sure, but I imagine there was quite a bit of public
> awareness when the B-25 went into the Empire State Building during WWII.

The TSA didn't put a paper bag over it and shout "nothing to see here; move
along"?

- Andrew

[CV]

>
> "CV" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Ron Natalie wrote:
>>
>>>>He also used the idea of airliners flown into buildings well before
>
> 2001.
>
>>>Airplanes have flown into buildings well before 2001.
>>
>>Subtle shift in meaning there.
>>
>>There was no widespread public awareness of the idea of them
>>_being_ flown into buildings before then.
>>CV

Bill Denton wrote:
> Don't know for sure, but I imagine there was quite a bit of public awareness
> when the B-25 went into the Empire State Building during WWII.

You are telling us that the B-52 was flown into the building
_deliberately_ ?

CV

A: Because it's more logical and easier to read, of course.
Q: Why ?
A: Absolutely.
Q: Should you write the answer before the text you are commenting ?

[Robert Briggs]

CV wrote:
> Bill Denton wrote:
>
> > Don't know for sure, but I imagine there was quite a bit of
> > public awareness when the B-25 went into the Empire State
> > Building during WWII.
>
> You are telling us that the B-52 was flown into the building
> _deliberately_ ?

Huh? Your "B-52" looks like a typo.

As Bill said, a B-25 hit the ESB during WWII - when its pilot tried
a spot of low flying in IMC ...

http://history1900s.about.com/library/misc/blempirecrash.htm

[CV]

Robert Briggs wrote:
> CV wrote:
>>You are telling us that the B-52 was flown into the building
>>_deliberately_ ?
> Huh? Your "B-52" looks like a typo.

Yep, that's what it was, thank you. B-25 it should be.

> As Bill said, a B-25 hit the ESB during WWII - when its pilot tried
> a spot of low flying in IMC ...
> http://history1900s.about.com/library/misc/blempirecrash.htm

Yes, I have read about that one before. But I don't think
there was ever any suggestion of it having been deliberate.

CV