Impaired Pilots

[Jay Honeck]

On a flight to Galesburg, IL last week, we were utilizing Quad Cities
Approach for VFR flight following. Being a Thursday morning, we
pretty much had the airwaves to ourselves, with the exception of a
Cirrus driver who was coming in to land in the Quad Cities.

The first call we heard from our Cirrus pilot was him asking approach
if he was "headed in the right direction for Rwy 5?" What caught our
attention, aside from the non-standard radio lingo, was the fact that
he was doing a PERFECT Truman-Capote-on-qualudes immitation.

This seemed a bit odd, but the controller cooly assigned a vector to
the pilot -- to which the Cirrus pilot slowly and way too deliberately
responded "Raaaahger, come to a heading of threeee waaaaaahn
zeeeeerrrroo, Ceeeerrrusss November XXXX..."

Mary and I started laughing, thinking that the guy surely must know
the approach controller, or something. It wasn't a southern accent
the guy was using, but rather a Robin-Williams-pretending-to-be-stoned
voice, with that added little Capote-ish lilt that absolutely NO ONE
could be using in a natural way.

With no witty response forthcoming from our severely under-worked
controller, however, we started to suspect that perhaps our Cirrus
driver wasn't playing with a full deck.

Then, at the next call, our hapless pilot, sounding like a cross
between Huckleberry Hound Dog and Foster Brooks, announced waaaay too
slowly and deliberately that he "haadd the aiiirporrrrt in sight, and
woulld like vectors to Runway 5."

By now it seemed pretty clear that (a) the guy didn't know which
direction Rwy 5 faced, and that (b) he was impaired in some fashion.

The fact that he was flying a $300K airplane seemed to eliminate the
possibility that he was just a nervous student flying into controlled
airspace for the first time, but I suppose it's possible.

The last call we heard was ATC switching him over to tower, to which
he again responded in a sleepy, slurred, non-standard way. We just
shrugged, and proceeded on to our destination.

The episode brought a few questions to mind:

1. When does a controller assume that a pilot is impaired? What
mis-steps are required, or what actions must be observed, for ATC to
presume impairment?

2. What would ATC actually *do* about it?

3. If I, or another pilot, witness an obviously impaired pilot, are we
legally (not morally, which I think is easily answered) required to
actually *do* anything about it?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Michael 182]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
m...
> The first call we heard from our Cirrus pilot was him asking approach
> if he was "headed in the right direction for Rwy 5?" What caught our
> attention, aside from the non-standard radio lingo, was the fact that
> he was doing a PERFECT Truman-Capote-on-qualudes immitation.


Possibly a speech impediment?


Michael

[C J Campbell]

I have a student who was so slow and halting on the radio that once another
pilot told him on the radio to give up flying.

He still is very slow and other pilots tell me he gives the impression that
English is a second language, but at least it is now acceptable. I suspect
he will always sound a little funny.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> This seemed a bit odd, but the controller cooly assigned a vector to
> the pilot -- to which the Cirrus pilot slowly and way too deliberately
> responded "Raaaahger, come to a heading of threeee waaaaaahn
> zeeeeerrrroo, Ceeeerrrusss November XXXX..."

Sounds like any of a number of pilots local to this area.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

[Peter Duniho]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
m...
> 1. When does a controller assume that a pilot is impaired?

Never. Why would they make that assumption?

> What
> mis-steps are required, or what actions must be observed, for ATC to
> presume impairment?

I suppose if the pilot actually said something like "I had a half dozen
drinks an hour ago, and I'm really drunk", ATC might at that point be able
to consider impairment as a possibility.

> 2. What would ATC actually *do* about it?

Nothing. Do you think ATC is the FAA's watchdog? They aren't, you know.

> 3. If I, or another pilot, witness an obviously impaired pilot, are we
> legally (not morally, which I think is easily answered) required to
> actually *do* anything about it?

How could you possibly be required by law to do something about it? You
watched the last Seinfeld episode a few too many times, I think.

It think it's funny that you think the moral question is easily answered.
It's not even an easy question to answer when you have witnessed, with your
eyes, some clear cut violation of the FARs. But you think you can reliably
assess impairment simply by what was said on the radio? What a crock.

Am I saying you shouldn't do something about a pilot you think might be
flying drunk? No. But at the same time, you should definitely rethink what
you consider to be sufficient evidence.

Pete

[Robert Briggs]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> The first call we heard from our Cirrus pilot was him asking approach
> if he was "headed in the right direction for Rwy 5?"

> ... responded "Raaaahger, come to a heading of threeee waaaaaahn
> zeeeeerrrroo, Ceeeerrrusss November XXXX..."

> Then, at the next call, our hapless pilot ... announced waaaay too
> slowly and deliberately that he "haadd the aiiirporrrrt in sight, and
> woulld like vectors to Runway 5."
>
> By now it seemed pretty clear that (a) the guy didn't know which
> direction Rwy 5 faced, and that (b) he was impaired in some fashion.

Let's see, now ... 310 for Runway 5 with the field in sight looks
like a reasonable approximation to a right base leg.

However, I'm not actually a pilot, so I may be *way* off here. :-)

[Dale]

In article >,
"Peter Duniho" > wrote:


>
> Nothing. Do you think ATC is the FAA's watchdog? They aren't, you know.

I know of at least one case where ATC (Tower) did take action. A Cub on
wheels almost landed in the seaplane base lake. That along with
generally erratic flying prompted the controller to request my
department to see what the problem was once the Cub landed. The problem
is both occupants were drunk, I'm talking .20 or better drunk.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

Jay,

I think I know who you are talking about, he ALWAYS sounds like that
(confused). There aren't that many around Moline if he was local.



"Robert Briggs" > wrote in message
...
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>> The first call we heard from our Cirrus pilot was him asking approach
>> if he was "headed in the right direction for Rwy 5?"
>
>> ... responded "Raaaahger, come to a heading of threeee waaaaaahn
>> zeeeeerrrroo, Ceeeerrrusss November XXXX..."
>
>> Then, at the next call, our hapless pilot ... announced waaaay too
>> slowly and deliberately that he "haadd the aiiirporrrrt in sight, and
>> woulld like vectors to Runway 5."
>>
>> By now it seemed pretty clear that (a) the guy didn't know which
>> direction Rwy 5 faced, and that (b) he was impaired in some fashion.
>
> Let's see, now ... 310 for Runway 5 with the field in sight looks
> like a reasonable approximation to a right base leg.
>
> However, I'm not actually a pilot, so I may be *way* off here. :-)

[john smith]

What you describe may not be a chemically induced impairment, but
possibly a speech impediment or psychological condition.

I had a friend who is a gifted engineer but has a speech impediment
which causes him to talk in a halting, varying inflection manner.

[Jay Honeck]

> What you describe may not be a chemically induced impairment, but
> possibly a speech impediment or psychological condition.

You know, I honestly hadn't considered that.

He sure sounded impaired to us -- and the non-standard radio terminology was
certainly peculiar -- but what the heck. I suppose he could just speak
differently than us.

Or, he was loaded.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> I think I know who you are talking about, he ALWAYS sounds like that
> (confused). There aren't that many around Moline if he was local.

No way to know if he was local.

But, damn, if he was local, he sure sounded like he didn't know where the
runway was...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> > 1. When does a controller assume that a pilot is impaired?
>
> Never. Why would they make that assumption?

They NEVER assume that a pilot is impaired, no matter the aural evidence?

That's pretty unlikely.

> How could you possibly be required by law to do something about it? You
> watched the last Seinfeld episode a few too many times, I think.

Actually, I may be the only person here who has never seen a single episode
of Seinfeld. (Although I *could* pick him out of a line-up, thanks to all
the media hoopla he received.)

> It think it's funny that you think the moral question is easily answered.
> It's not even an easy question to answer when you have witnessed, with
your
> eyes, some clear cut violation of the FARs. But you think you can
reliably
> assess impairment simply by what was said on the radio? What a crock.

True enough. I have no way of knowing whether the guy was impaired -- thus
the question.

He sure sounded like it to us.

Bottom line: It just seems unacceptable that the only way we can truly
*know* a pilot is impaired is to simply wait until they crash. I would
hope ATC would have some sort of protocol.

An example of someone actually DOING something about this sort of thing:
Eight (?) years ago we witnessed the Wisconsin State Patrol giving a pilot a
Breath-a-lyzer test at Lake Lawn Lodge, an uncontrolled strip at a resort in
Lake Delavan, WI. It seemed that the pilot (a former Tuskegee airman, no
less) had just landed his Mooney on the TAXIWAY, sending pilots scattering
in all directions.

We left before the results were in, but clearly SOMEONE had called the cops
on the guy.

I still wonder what ATC is required to do when they hear a clearly impaired
pilot on the radio. Anyone know?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Peter Duniho]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:ZPm7d.303818$Fg5.16434@attbi_s53...
> [...]
> Bottom line: It just seems unacceptable that the only way we can truly
> *know* a pilot is impaired is to simply wait until they crash.

Saying that you cannot determine that a pilot is impaired by how he sounds
on the radio is not the same as saying that "the only way we can truly
*know* a pilot is impaired is to simply wait until they crash".

Please stop putting words in my mouth.

> [...]
> I still wonder what ATC is required to do when they hear a clearly
> impaired
> pilot on the radio. Anyone know?

I told you. Even assuming you could use just a radio transmission to assess
impairment (and obviously you cannot), ATC isn't required to report it.

As Dale points out, controllers do sometimes take it upon themselves to
report something they feel is worth reporting. But there's no requirement
for them to do so, not in this sort of situation.

Pete

[Jon Woellhaf]

CO poisoning?

[William W. Plummer]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>>What you describe may not be a chemically induced impairment, but
>>possibly a speech impediment or psychological condition.
>
>
> You know, I honestly hadn't considered that.
>
> He sure sounded impaired to us -- and the non-standard radio terminology was
> certainly peculiar -- but what the heck. I suppose he could just speak
> differently than us.
>
> Or, he was loaded.

I have to say that the notion of vigilanties flying around looking for
trouble bothers me tremendously. MYOB.

[Nathan Young]

On 1 Oct 2004 07:43:48 -0700, (Jay Honeck) wrote:

<snip>

>The fact that he was flying a $300K airplane seemed to eliminate the
>possibility that he was just a nervous student flying into controlled
>airspace for the first time, but I suppose it's possible.

Several students at my field learned in SR20s or SR22s. Most of these
Cirrus were owned by their student pilots.

[Larry Dighera]

On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 05:44:52 GMT, "Jon Woellhaf"
> wrote in
<ofr7d.291644$mD.256881@attbi_s02>::

>CO poisoning?
>

Hypoxia due to altitude exposure?

[dave]

There's a local pilot that has a disability. His speech is affected by it.
Dave
68 7ECA

Jay Honeck wrote:

> On a flight to Galesburg, IL last week, we were utilizing Quad Cities
> Approach for VFR flight following. Being a Thursday morning, we
> pretty much had the airwaves to ourselves, with the exception of a
> Cirrus driver who was coming in to land in the Quad Cities.
>
> The first call we heard from our Cirrus pilot was him asking approach
> if he was "headed in the right direction for Rwy 5?" What caught our
> attention, aside from the non-standard radio lingo, was the fact that
> he was doing a PERFECT Truman-Capote-on-qualudes immitation.
>
> This seemed a bit odd, but the controller cooly assigned a vector to
> the pilot -- to which the Cirrus pilot slowly and way too deliberately
> responded "Raaaahger, come to a heading of threeee waaaaaahn
> zeeeeerrrroo, Ceeeerrrusss November XXXX..."
>
> Mary and I started laughing, thinking that the guy surely must know
> the approach controller, or something. It wasn't a southern accent
> the guy was using, but rather a Robin-Williams-pretending-to-be-stoned
> voice, with that added little Capote-ish lilt that absolutely NO ONE
> could be using in a natural way.
>
> With no witty response forthcoming from our severely under-worked
> controller, however, we started to suspect that perhaps our Cirrus
> driver wasn't playing with a full deck.
>
> Then, at the next call, our hapless pilot, sounding like a cross
> between Huckleberry Hound Dog and Foster Brooks, announced waaaay too
> slowly and deliberately that he "haadd the aiiirporrrrt in sight, and
> woulld like vectors to Runway 5."
>
> By now it seemed pretty clear that (a) the guy didn't know which
> direction Rwy 5 faced, and that (b) he was impaired in some fashion.
>
> The fact that he was flying a $300K airplane seemed to eliminate the
> possibility that he was just a nervous student flying into controlled
> airspace for the first time, but I suppose it's possible.
>
> The last call we heard was ATC switching him over to tower, to which
> he again responded in a sleepy, slurred, non-standard way. We just
> shrugged, and proceeded on to our destination.
>
> The episode brought a few questions to mind:
>
> 1. When does a controller assume that a pilot is impaired? What
> mis-steps are required, or what actions must be observed, for ATC to
> presume impairment?
>
> 2. What would ATC actually *do* about it?
>
> 3. If I, or another pilot, witness an obviously impaired pilot, are we
> legally (not morally, which I think is easily answered) required to
> actually *do* anything about it?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

[Mike O'Malley]

"Dale" > wrote in message news:me-

<snip>

> I know of at least one case where ATC (Tower) did take action. A Cub on
> wheels almost landed in the seaplane base lake. That along with
> generally erratic flying prompted the controller to request my
> department to see what the problem was once the Cub landed. The problem
> is both occupants were drunk, I'm talking .20 or better drunk.
>

Damn! I'm surprised they managed to get the thing started with all limbs
still attached at that point.

[Richard Russell]

On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 11:56:23 -0400, dave >
wrote:

>There's a local pilot that has a disability. His speech is affected by it.
>Dave
>68 7ECA
>
snipped Jay's message....

I've heard that guy. In fact I hear him almost every Sunday, usually
late in the afternoon. He sounds like he's about 95 years old. More
importantly than that, he sounds like someone that really loves
flying. He may sound impaired but you can "hear" him having fun when
he makes his calls. His radio calls are always accurate and
informative. I hope he can keep flying as long as he wants to. I
certainly hope that he is never grounded because someone doesn't like
the way that he sounds.
Rich Russell

[dave]

I've seen him go up in C152. It's seems to be quite a struggle for him
to get into the airplane. You're absolutely right, he really does seem
to enjoy it. Good for him.
It doesn't seem fair to assume that someone is drunk because they don't
sound "normal".

Dave
68 7ECA

Richard Russell wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 11:56:23 -0400, dave >
> wrote:
>
>
>>There's a local pilot that has a disability. His speech is affected by it.
>>Dave
>>68 7ECA
>>
>
> snipped Jay's message....
>
> I've heard that guy. In fact I hear him almost every Sunday, usually
> late in the afternoon. He sounds like he's about 95 years old. More
> importantly than that, he sounds like someone that really loves
> flying. He may sound impaired but you can "hear" him having fun when
> he makes his calls. His radio calls are always accurate and
> informative. I hope he can keep flying as long as he wants to. I
> certainly hope that he is never grounded because someone doesn't like
> the way that he sounds.
> Rich Russell

[Jay Honeck]

> I've seen him go up in C152. It's seems to be quite a struggle for him to
> get into the airplane. You're absolutely right, he really does seem to
> enjoy it. Good for him.
> It doesn't seem fair to assume that someone is drunk because they don't
> sound "normal".

So now the impaired guy we heard flying a Cirrus has morphed into a 95-year
old C152 pilot with a speech impediment?

Talk about thread drift!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[dave]

No, just a pilot like you and me than has some physical handicaps that
limit his mobility and affect his speech. I actually enjoy seeing him
go flying although I haven't seen him in a few months.
Dave

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>I've seen him go up in C152. It's seems to be quite a struggle for him to
>>get into the airplane. You're absolutely right, he really does seem to
>>enjoy it. Good for him.
>>It doesn't seem fair to assume that someone is drunk because they don't
>>sound "normal".
>
>
> So now the impaired guy we heard flying a Cirrus has morphed into a 95-year
> old C152 pilot with a speech impediment?
>
> Talk about thread drift!
>
> ;-)

[Jay Honeck]

> No, just a pilot like you and me than has some physical handicaps that
> limit his mobility and affect his speech. I actually enjoy seeing him go
> flying although I haven't seen him in a few months.

I've got nothing against someone like that flying at all. More power to
him.

But that's not the guy I was talking about. Thus, my comment about "thread
drift"...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Richard Russell]

On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 15:03:22 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:

>> No, just a pilot like you and me than has some physical handicaps that
>> limit his mobility and affect his speech. I actually enjoy seeing him go
>> flying although I haven't seen him in a few months.
>
>I've got nothing against someone like that flying at all. More power to
>him.
>
>But that's not the guy I was talking about. Thus, my comment about "thread
>drift"...


It's not thread drift because the point is that you don't know the guy
in the Cirrus. The point is that for all you know, his situation may
(or may not) be similar in some way to the old guy. We just don't
know.
Rich Russell

[Jay Honeck]

> It's not thread drift because the point is that you don't know the guy
> in the Cirrus. The point is that for all you know, his situation may
> (or may not) be similar in some way to the old guy. We just don't
> know.

You say tomaytoe, I say tomahto.

Let's call the whole thing off!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"