There is no penalty for failing to make the required FAA reports or investigation!

[Larry Dighera]

Is it only pilots who are held accountable?

http://www.airlinesafety.com/editorials/editorial2.htm
Thus, it should be as criminal to fail to report and investigate
near collisions as it is to fail to report taxable income. It is a
felony to lie to any Federal Official, but it is no crime for FAA
personnel to lie about their own wrong doing, even if it could
cost the lives of innocent passengers. It is a felony to falsify
any airline record, but it is no crime for FAA personnel to block
an investigation that would expose records revealing their own
incompetence. That has to change.

[Capt.Doug]

>"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
> Is it only pilots who are held accountable?

The author has good prose for s**t-stirring. I know there are many times
that a full investigation was not instigated when it should have been. For
that I am GLAD! Those investigations would have been about me. I suspect
that you too have been cut some slack for your mistakes from ATC a time or
two.

D.

[Larry Dighera]

On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 22:25:36 GMT, "Capt.Doug" >
wrote in
>::

>>"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
>> Is it only pilots who are held accountable?
>
>The author has good prose for s**t-stirring. I know there are many times
>that a full investigation was not instigated when it should have been. For
>that I am GLAD! Those investigations would have been about me.

So you feel that ATC failing to perform duties REQUIRED by
regulations/orders is a good thing?

>I suspect that you too have been cut some slack for your mistakes from
>ATC a time or two.

There are times when ATC has discretion in reporting an incident. The
reporting of NMACs isn't one of them. The subject incident was
clearly an attempt to cover up ATC incompetence.


http://www.awp.faa.gov/new/info_cd_save/ASPM%20Info/8700/8700_vol2/2_169_01.pdf

[Larry Dighera]

On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 22:25:36 GMT, "Capt.Doug" >
wrote in
>::

>>"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
>> Is it only pilots who are held accountable?
>
>The author has good prose for s**t-stirring. I know there are many times
>that a full investigation was not instigated when it should have been. For
>that I am GLAD! Those investigations would have been about me.

So you feel that ATC failing to perform duties REQUIRED by
regulations/orders is a good thing?

>I suspect that you too have been cut some slack for your mistakes from
>ATC a time or two.

There are times when ATC has discretion in reporting an incident. The
reporting of NMACs isn't one of them. The subject incident was
clearly an attempt to cover up ATC incompetence.


http://www.awp.faa.gov/new/info_cd_save/ASPM%20Info/8700/8700_vol2/2_169_01.pdf

[Doug]

I don't think it is a felony to lie to any Federal Official (after all
their kids do it to them all the time). The FBI would LIKE YOU TO
THINK it is a crime to lie to them, but it is not. Now under oath or
under testimony, that is a DIFFERENT matter. Lieing CAN be a crime,
but not in casual conversation or even under questioning, if not under
oath or in a hearing etc.

Larry Dighera > wrote in message >...
> Is it only pilots who are held accountable?
>
> http://www.airlinesafety.com/editorials/editorial2.htm
> Thus, it should be as criminal to fail to report and investigate
> near collisions as it is to fail to report taxable income. It is a
> felony to lie to any Federal Official, but it is no crime for FAA
> personnel to lie about their own wrong doing, even if it could
> cost the lives of innocent passengers. It is a felony to falsify
> any airline record, but it is no crime for FAA personnel to block
> an investigation that would expose records revealing their own
> incompetence. That has to change.

[Doug]

I don't think it is a felony to lie to any Federal Official (after all
their kids do it to them all the time). The FBI would LIKE YOU TO
THINK it is a crime to lie to them, but it is not. Now under oath or
under testimony, that is a DIFFERENT matter. Lieing CAN be a crime,
but not in casual conversation or even under questioning, if not under
oath or in a hearing etc.

Larry Dighera > wrote in message >...
> Is it only pilots who are held accountable?
>
> http://www.airlinesafety.com/editorials/editorial2.htm
> Thus, it should be as criminal to fail to report and investigate
> near collisions as it is to fail to report taxable income. It is a
> felony to lie to any Federal Official, but it is no crime for FAA
> personnel to lie about their own wrong doing, even if it could
> cost the lives of innocent passengers. It is a felony to falsify
> any airline record, but it is no crime for FAA personnel to block
> an investigation that would expose records revealing their own
> incompetence. That has to change.

[Ron Natalie]

Doug wrote:
> I don't think it is a felony to lie to any Federal Official (after all
> their kids do it to them all the time)

Think again.

It is a felony to make materially false statements or representations
to the FBI (18 USC 1001).

[Ron Natalie]

Doug wrote:
> I don't think it is a felony to lie to any Federal Official (after all
> their kids do it to them all the time)

Think again.

It is a felony to make materially false statements or representations
to the FBI (18 USC 1001).

[Capt.Doug]

>"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
> So you feel that ATC failing to perform duties REQUIRED by
> regulations/orders is a good thing?

Would I rather have controllers sitting at a desk doing reports or working a
station splitting work with other controllers? They are allowed a certain
number of hours to work. The FAA isn't hiring enough controllers to account
for the current staffing shortages and it will get worse. If a controller is
filling out paperwork, that controller isn't working aircraft. Which is
safer?

Perhaps the requirement is what needs to be changed.

> There are times when ATC has discretion in reporting an incident. The
> reporting of NMACs isn't one of them. The subject incident was
> clearly an attempt to cover up ATC incompetence.

A newer thread has quite a discussion on this subject. On some things we
agree and on others we don't. A NMAC is serious. The current limitations on
controllers' judgement are ludicrous.

D.

[Capt.Doug]

>"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
> So you feel that ATC failing to perform duties REQUIRED by
> regulations/orders is a good thing?

Would I rather have controllers sitting at a desk doing reports or working a
station splitting work with other controllers? They are allowed a certain
number of hours to work. The FAA isn't hiring enough controllers to account
for the current staffing shortages and it will get worse. If a controller is
filling out paperwork, that controller isn't working aircraft. Which is
safer?

Perhaps the requirement is what needs to be changed.

> There are times when ATC has discretion in reporting an incident. The
> reporting of NMACs isn't one of them. The subject incident was
> clearly an attempt to cover up ATC incompetence.

A newer thread has quite a discussion on this subject. On some things we
agree and on others we don't. A NMAC is serious. The current limitations on
controllers' judgement are ludicrous.

D.