EXPORTING JOBS IMPORTING POVERTY

[Cribsheet]

EXPORTING JOBS IMPORTING POVERTY

The U.S. population is increasing by about three million legal and illegal
immigrants each year while jobs are being exported by the bucketful. Anyone
who doesn`t wear a decoder ring should realize the country is in trouble and
our politicians are more interested in minutia than addressing the real
problems.. Just to keep up with our population increase we need to generate
140,000 to 200,000 jobs per month.

The country your children and grandchildren will inherit will be far different
than the country you live in today. Many areas will resemble a Third
World---even today some areas of our once great cities are ethnic enclaves
where only a few residents speak English. This self-inflicted Balkanization is
spreading across America aided by subversive politicians whose only objective
is to get elected. We need to secure our borders and ports, declare an
immediate immigration moratorium, and authorize federal, state, and local law
enforcement agencies to assist the immigration enforcement authorities.

Please copy and distribute freely.

[kontiki]

Nothing new. People don't care... more immigrants = more Democratic voters.

Cribsheet wrote:

> EXPORTING JOBS IMPORTING POVERTY
>
> The U.S. population is increasing by about three million legal and illegal
> immigrants each year while jobs are being exported by the bucketful. Anyone
> who doesn`t wear a decoder ring should realize the country is in trouble and
> our politicians are more interested in minutia than addressing the real
> problems.. Just to keep up with our population increase we need to generate
> 140,000 to 200,000 jobs per month.
>
> The country your children and grandchildren will inherit will be far different
> than the country you live in today. Many areas will resemble a Third
> World---even today some areas of our once great cities are ethnic enclaves
> where only a few residents speak English. This self-inflicted Balkanization is
> spreading across America aided by subversive politicians whose only objective
> is to get elected. We need to secure our borders and ports, declare an
> immediate immigration moratorium, and authorize federal, state, and local law
> enforcement agencies to assist the immigration enforcement authorities.
>
> Please copy and distribute freely.
>

[kontiki]

Nothing new. People don't care... more immigrants = more Democratic voters.

Cribsheet wrote:

> EXPORTING JOBS IMPORTING POVERTY
>
> The U.S. population is increasing by about three million legal and illegal
> immigrants each year while jobs are being exported by the bucketful. Anyone
> who doesn`t wear a decoder ring should realize the country is in trouble and
> our politicians are more interested in minutia than addressing the real
> problems.. Just to keep up with our population increase we need to generate
> 140,000 to 200,000 jobs per month.
>
> The country your children and grandchildren will inherit will be far different
> than the country you live in today. Many areas will resemble a Third
> World---even today some areas of our once great cities are ethnic enclaves
> where only a few residents speak English. This self-inflicted Balkanization is
> spreading across America aided by subversive politicians whose only objective
> is to get elected. We need to secure our borders and ports, declare an
> immediate immigration moratorium, and authorize federal, state, and local law
> enforcement agencies to assist the immigration enforcement authorities.
>
> Please copy and distribute freely.
>

[C J Campbell]

"Cribsheet" > wrote in message
...
> EXPORTING JOBS IMPORTING POVERTY
>
> The U.S. population is increasing by about three million legal and illegal
> immigrants each year while jobs are being exported by the bucketful.

All legal and most illegal immigrants come here because there are jobs
available.

[C J Campbell]

"Cribsheet" > wrote in message
...
> EXPORTING JOBS IMPORTING POVERTY
>
> The U.S. population is increasing by about three million legal and illegal
> immigrants each year while jobs are being exported by the bucketful.

All legal and most illegal immigrants come here because there are jobs
available.

[Charlie]

(Cribsheet) wrote in
:


Absolutely, the shame is that both parties in our government are slaves
to the same monster, immigrant special interest.

i heard Az is on a pretty good path, thats if the activist judges dont
stop them first..

http://www.ranchrescue.com/

and

http://www.michaelsavage.com/
Borders * Language * Culture

were losing our country as all industriliazed nations are. Our
population numbers are stagnating and we are aborting millions of future
citizens every year. All the while third world countries are
reproducing at an alarming rate... And they gotta go somewhere. Read
"The Death of the West", with a grain of salt, focus on the facts and
you will get a eye-opener every chapter.

We put ourselves above "menial" labor and will pay $6.00 an hour to a
man that in his country he is making a high middle class wage and work
like a madman to do it. I remeber stories that my g-pa told me about
the menial hard work that he did every day and that made his family
successful and produced our greatest generation. My how the tables have
turned, we no longer participate in the American Dream and are going to
loose it all while we watch.




> EXPORTING JOBS IMPORTING POVERTY
>
> The U.S. population is increasing by about three million legal and
> illegal immigrants each year while jobs are being exported by the
> bucketful. Anyone who doesn`t wear a decoder ring should realize the
> country is in trouble and our politicians are more interested in
> minutia than addressing the real problems.. Just to keep up with our
> population increase we need to generate 140,000 to 200,000 jobs per
> month.
>
> The country your children and grandchildren will inherit will be far
> different than the country you live in today. Many areas will
> resemble a Third World---even today some areas of our once great
> cities are ethnic enclaves where only a few residents speak English.
> This self-inflicted Balkanization is spreading across America aided by
> subversive politicians whose only objective is to get elected. We need
> to secure our borders and ports, declare an immediate immigration
> moratorium, and authorize federal, state, and local law enforcement
> agencies to assist the immigration enforcement authorities.
>
> Please copy and distribute freely.
>

[Charlie]

(Cribsheet) wrote in
:


Absolutely, the shame is that both parties in our government are slaves
to the same monster, immigrant special interest.

i heard Az is on a pretty good path, thats if the activist judges dont
stop them first..

http://www.ranchrescue.com/

and

http://www.michaelsavage.com/
Borders * Language * Culture

were losing our country as all industriliazed nations are. Our
population numbers are stagnating and we are aborting millions of future
citizens every year. All the while third world countries are
reproducing at an alarming rate... And they gotta go somewhere. Read
"The Death of the West", with a grain of salt, focus on the facts and
you will get a eye-opener every chapter.

We put ourselves above "menial" labor and will pay $6.00 an hour to a
man that in his country he is making a high middle class wage and work
like a madman to do it. I remeber stories that my g-pa told me about
the menial hard work that he did every day and that made his family
successful and produced our greatest generation. My how the tables have
turned, we no longer participate in the American Dream and are going to
loose it all while we watch.




> EXPORTING JOBS IMPORTING POVERTY
>
> The U.S. population is increasing by about three million legal and
> illegal immigrants each year while jobs are being exported by the
> bucketful. Anyone who doesn`t wear a decoder ring should realize the
> country is in trouble and our politicians are more interested in
> minutia than addressing the real problems.. Just to keep up with our
> population increase we need to generate 140,000 to 200,000 jobs per
> month.
>
> The country your children and grandchildren will inherit will be far
> different than the country you live in today. Many areas will
> resemble a Third World---even today some areas of our once great
> cities are ethnic enclaves where only a few residents speak English.
> This self-inflicted Balkanization is spreading across America aided by
> subversive politicians whose only objective is to get elected. We need
> to secure our borders and ports, declare an immediate immigration
> moratorium, and authorize federal, state, and local law enforcement
> agencies to assist the immigration enforcement authorities.
>
> Please copy and distribute freely.
>

[C Kingsbury]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Cribsheet" > wrote in message
> ...
> > EXPORTING JOBS IMPORTING POVERTY
> >
> > The U.S. population is increasing by about three million legal and
illegal
> > immigrants each year while jobs are being exported by the bucketful.
>
> All legal and most illegal immigrants come here because there are jobs
> available.
>

I have very mixed feelings on this issue. On one hand, I'm usually a
let-the-market-decide laissez-faire capitalist in favor of open borders.

On the other hand, it's pretty clear the last thing we need are more
uneducated, unskilled workers. The market will always respond positively to
more employees; it's good for keeping costs down. But social stability is an
issue as well.

I'll take all the Chinese engineers, Indian programmers, and European
designers that want to come here. Polish masons are good, as are Irish
plasterers. Educated professionals and skilled tradesmen we can always use
more of. But let's get unemployment in the inner cities down a bit before we
let more in, don't you think?

-cwk.

[C Kingsbury]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Cribsheet" > wrote in message
> ...
> > EXPORTING JOBS IMPORTING POVERTY
> >
> > The U.S. population is increasing by about three million legal and
illegal
> > immigrants each year while jobs are being exported by the bucketful.
>
> All legal and most illegal immigrants come here because there are jobs
> available.
>

I have very mixed feelings on this issue. On one hand, I'm usually a
let-the-market-decide laissez-faire capitalist in favor of open borders.

On the other hand, it's pretty clear the last thing we need are more
uneducated, unskilled workers. The market will always respond positively to
more employees; it's good for keeping costs down. But social stability is an
issue as well.

I'll take all the Chinese engineers, Indian programmers, and European
designers that want to come here. Polish masons are good, as are Irish
plasterers. Educated professionals and skilled tradesmen we can always use
more of. But let's get unemployment in the inner cities down a bit before we
let more in, don't you think?

-cwk.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"C Kingsbury" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> On the other hand, it's pretty clear the last thing we need are more
> uneducated, unskilled workers. The market will always respond positively
> to
> more employees; it's good for keeping costs down. But social stability is
> an
> issue as well.
>
> I'll take all the Chinese engineers, Indian programmers, and European
> designers that want to come here. Polish masons are good, as are Irish
> plasterers. Educated professionals and skilled tradesmen we can always use
> more of. But let's get unemployment in the inner cities down a bit before
> we
> let more in, don't you think?
>

If there are no jobs for these uneducated, unskilled workers, why do they
continue to come here?

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"C Kingsbury" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> On the other hand, it's pretty clear the last thing we need are more
> uneducated, unskilled workers. The market will always respond positively
> to
> more employees; it's good for keeping costs down. But social stability is
> an
> issue as well.
>
> I'll take all the Chinese engineers, Indian programmers, and European
> designers that want to come here. Polish masons are good, as are Irish
> plasterers. Educated professionals and skilled tradesmen we can always use
> more of. But let's get unemployment in the inner cities down a bit before
> we
> let more in, don't you think?
>

If there are no jobs for these uneducated, unskilled workers, why do they
continue to come here?

[aluckyguess]

Our schools need to teach auto shop, machining and other trades. If you run
an add for a machinist or a mechanic you are lucky to get 1 applicant, and
if you do he isn't very good. Have you took your car to the dealer lately,
if there is something out of the ordinary wrong with it they just keep
changing parts until they figure it out.
"Charlie" > wrote in message
...
> (Cribsheet) wrote in
> :
>
>
> Absolutely, the shame is that both parties in our government are slaves
> to the same monster, immigrant special interest.
>
> i heard Az is on a pretty good path, thats if the activist judges dont
> stop them first..
>
> http://www.ranchrescue.com/
>
> and
>
> http://www.michaelsavage.com/
> Borders * Language * Culture
>
> were losing our country as all industriliazed nations are. Our
> population numbers are stagnating and we are aborting millions of future
> citizens every year. All the while third world countries are
> reproducing at an alarming rate... And they gotta go somewhere. Read
> "The Death of the West", with a grain of salt, focus on the facts and
> you will get a eye-opener every chapter.
>
> We put ourselves above "menial" labor and will pay $6.00 an hour to a
> man that in his country he is making a high middle class wage and work
> like a madman to do it. I remeber stories that my g-pa told me about
> the menial hard work that he did every day and that made his family
> successful and produced our greatest generation. My how the tables have
> turned, we no longer participate in the American Dream and are going to
> loose it all while we watch.
>
>
>
>
>> EXPORTING JOBS IMPORTING POVERTY
>>
>> The U.S. population is increasing by about three million legal and
>> illegal immigrants each year while jobs are being exported by the
>> bucketful. Anyone who doesn`t wear a decoder ring should realize the
>> country is in trouble and our politicians are more interested in
>> minutia than addressing the real problems.. Just to keep up with our
>> population increase we need to generate 140,000 to 200,000 jobs per
>> month.
>>
>> The country your children and grandchildren will inherit will be far
>> different than the country you live in today. Many areas will
>> resemble a Third World---even today some areas of our once great
>> cities are ethnic enclaves where only a few residents speak English.
>> This self-inflicted Balkanization is spreading across America aided by
>> subversive politicians whose only objective is to get elected. We need
>> to secure our borders and ports, declare an immediate immigration
>> moratorium, and authorize federal, state, and local law enforcement
>> agencies to assist the immigration enforcement authorities.
>>
>> Please copy and distribute freely.
>>
>

[aluckyguess]

Our schools need to teach auto shop, machining and other trades. If you run
an add for a machinist or a mechanic you are lucky to get 1 applicant, and
if you do he isn't very good. Have you took your car to the dealer lately,
if there is something out of the ordinary wrong with it they just keep
changing parts until they figure it out.
"Charlie" > wrote in message
...
> (Cribsheet) wrote in
> :
>
>
> Absolutely, the shame is that both parties in our government are slaves
> to the same monster, immigrant special interest.
>
> i heard Az is on a pretty good path, thats if the activist judges dont
> stop them first..
>
> http://www.ranchrescue.com/
>
> and
>
> http://www.michaelsavage.com/
> Borders * Language * Culture
>
> were losing our country as all industriliazed nations are. Our
> population numbers are stagnating and we are aborting millions of future
> citizens every year. All the while third world countries are
> reproducing at an alarming rate... And they gotta go somewhere. Read
> "The Death of the West", with a grain of salt, focus on the facts and
> you will get a eye-opener every chapter.
>
> We put ourselves above "menial" labor and will pay $6.00 an hour to a
> man that in his country he is making a high middle class wage and work
> like a madman to do it. I remeber stories that my g-pa told me about
> the menial hard work that he did every day and that made his family
> successful and produced our greatest generation. My how the tables have
> turned, we no longer participate in the American Dream and are going to
> loose it all while we watch.
>
>
>
>
>> EXPORTING JOBS IMPORTING POVERTY
>>
>> The U.S. population is increasing by about three million legal and
>> illegal immigrants each year while jobs are being exported by the
>> bucketful. Anyone who doesn`t wear a decoder ring should realize the
>> country is in trouble and our politicians are more interested in
>> minutia than addressing the real problems.. Just to keep up with our
>> population increase we need to generate 140,000 to 200,000 jobs per
>> month.
>>
>> The country your children and grandchildren will inherit will be far
>> different than the country you live in today. Many areas will
>> resemble a Third World---even today some areas of our once great
>> cities are ethnic enclaves where only a few residents speak English.
>> This self-inflicted Balkanization is spreading across America aided by
>> subversive politicians whose only objective is to get elected. We need
>> to secure our borders and ports, declare an immediate immigration
>> moratorium, and authorize federal, state, and local law enforcement
>> agencies to assist the immigration enforcement authorities.
>>
>> Please copy and distribute freely.
>>
>

[Chris]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> "C Kingsbury" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>
>>On the other hand, it's pretty clear the last thing we need are more
>>uneducated, unskilled workers. The market will always respond positively
>>to
>>more employees; it's good for keeping costs down. But social stability is
>>an
>>issue as well.
>>
>>I'll take all the Chinese engineers, Indian programmers, and European
>>designers that want to come here. Polish masons are good, as are Irish
>>plasterers. Educated professionals and skilled tradesmen we can always use
>>more of. But let's get unemployment in the inner cities down a bit before
>>we
>>let more in, don't you think?
>>
>
>
> If there are no jobs for these uneducated, unskilled workers, why do they
> continue to come here?
>
>

To sponge off every working american by getting free health care, and
welfare.

[Chris]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> "C Kingsbury" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>
>>On the other hand, it's pretty clear the last thing we need are more
>>uneducated, unskilled workers. The market will always respond positively
>>to
>>more employees; it's good for keeping costs down. But social stability is
>>an
>>issue as well.
>>
>>I'll take all the Chinese engineers, Indian programmers, and European
>>designers that want to come here. Polish masons are good, as are Irish
>>plasterers. Educated professionals and skilled tradesmen we can always use
>>more of. But let's get unemployment in the inner cities down a bit before
>>we
>>let more in, don't you think?
>>
>
>
> If there are no jobs for these uneducated, unskilled workers, why do they
> continue to come here?
>
>

To sponge off every working american by getting free health care, and
welfare.

[C Kingsbury]

"Chris" > wrote in message
.. .
> Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> > "C Kingsbury" > wrote in message
> > ink.net...
> >
> >>more of. But let's get unemployment in the inner cities down a bit
before
> >>we
> >>let more in, don't you think?
> >>
> >
> >
> > If there are no jobs for these uneducated, unskilled workers, why do
they
> > continue to come here?
> >

They find jobs because they're willing to work at very low wages. The result
of this is to depress wages in this segment of the labor market. Without
illegal immigrants, lots of employers would have to offer higher wages to
get lazy American citizens to come work for them. With jobs available at
higher wages, fewer uneductaed, unskilled Americans will choose welfare
and/or crime as their primary means of employment.

-cwk.

[Wdtabor]

>
>They find jobs because they're willing to work at very low wages. The result
>of this is to depress wages in this segment of the labor market. Without
>illegal immigrants, lots of employers would have to offer higher wages to
>get lazy American citizens to come work for them.
>

And then the price of whatever they make will go up high enough to become
noncompetitive in the world market, the factory will close, and those durned
foriegners will get the same jobs in shiny new factories in their own country.

And,of course, they will take the high paying managerial, shipping and
marketing jobs at that factory with them.

You cannot defeat the free market. You can create the temporary illusion that
you have, but the free market ALWAYS wins in the end.

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Chris" > wrote in message
.. .
>>
>> If there are no jobs for these uneducated, unskilled workers, why do they
>> continue to come here?
>
> To sponge off every working american by getting free health care, and
> welfare.
>

The solution to that is obvious. Eliminate "free" health care and welfare.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"C Kingsbury" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Chris" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
>> > "C Kingsbury" > wrote in message
>> > ink.net...
>> >
>> >>more of. But let's get unemployment in the inner cities down a bit
> before
>> >>we
>> >>let more in, don't you think?
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > If there are no jobs for these uneducated, unskilled workers, why do
> they
>> > continue to come here?
>> >
>
> They find jobs because they're willing to work at very low wages.
>

Which means jobs are available. So why is unemployment high in the inner
cities?


>
> The result of this is to depress wages in this segment of the labor
> market. Without
> illegal immigrants, lots of employers would have to offer higher wages to
> get lazy American citizens to come work for them.
>

Which increases the costs of their goods or services, perhaps making them
noncompetitive.


>
> With jobs available at
> higher wages, fewer uneductaed, unskilled Americans will choose welfare
> and/or crime as their primary means of employment.
>

We can eliminate welfare as an alternative to work by eliminating welfare.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"John T" > wrote in message
m...
> Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
>>
>> The solution to that is obvious. Eliminate "free" health care and
>> welfare.
>>
>
> "Free" is most definitely a matter of perspective, isn't it?
>

Nothing drives up the cost of something faster than making it "free".

[John T]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
>
> The solution to that is obvious. Eliminate "free" health care and
> welfare.

"Free" is most definitely a matter of perspective, isn't it?

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
____________________

[C Kingsbury]

"Wdtabor" > wrote in message
...
> >
> >They find jobs because they're willing to work at very low wages. The
result
> >of this is to depress wages in this segment of the labor market. Without
> >illegal immigrants, lots of employers would have to offer higher wages to
> >get lazy American citizens to come work for them.
> >
>
> And then the price of whatever they make will go up high enough to become
> noncompetitive in the world market, the factory will close, and those
durned
> foriegners will get the same jobs in shiny new factories in their own
country.

We're not talking about factory jobs here. Those have already migrated
offshore because of labor/environmental regulations and basic cost issues
that can't be worked around. We're talking about things like busboys,
gardeners, ditch diggers, etc. These things can't be offshored.

Of course, this does mean prices for the goods and services involved will go
up. Without cheap Guatemalan nannies more yuppie mothers may choose to stay
at home with the kids rather than hire a more expensive citizen. Her husband
may choose to mow the lawn himself instead of paying a landscaper to do it.

-cwk.

[C Kingsbury]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "C Kingsbury" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>
> > With jobs available at
> > higher wages, fewer uneductaed, unskilled Americans will choose welfare
> > and/or crime as their primary means of employment.
> >
>
> We can eliminate welfare as an alternative to work by eliminating welfare.

Sure. You do that. It took half a century just to chip away at the welfare
state (1996 welfare reform) and even though it was signed by Bill Clinton,
his party's been trying to get rid of even that small step ever since.

-cwk.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"C Kingsbury" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>>
>> We can eliminate welfare as an alternative to work by eliminating
>> welfare.
>>
>
> Sure. You do that. It took half a century just to chip away at the welfare
> state (1996 welfare reform) and even though it was signed by Bill Clinton,
> his party's been trying to get rid of even that small step ever since.
>

Quite true. Most of the problems the Democrats rail against are the results
of legislation enacted by Democrats.

[John T]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
>
> Quite true. Most of the problems the Democrats rail against are the
> results of legislation enacted by Democrats.

The only problem with that is the legislation (or implementation) never goes
far enough. :)

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_search.asp?developerid=4415
____________________

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"John T" > wrote in message
m...
> Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
>>
>> Quite true. Most of the problems the Democrats rail against are the
>> results of legislation enacted by Democrats.
>
> The only problem with that is the legislation (or implementation) never
> goes far enough. :)
>

Given that most such legislation is unconstitutional, it actually goes too
far.

[kontiki]

C Kingsbury wrote:

> They find jobs because they're willing to work at very low wages. The result
> of this is to depress wages in this segment of the labor market. Without
> illegal immigrants, lots of employers would have to offer higher wages to
> get lazy American citizens to come work for them.

It's less about laziness than the fact that it costs a lot more to live
a basic lifestyle in the US than you can make on minimum wage. On the other
hand, if you don't mind living in the same squalid conditions you were
accustomed to in the country you came from then its like getting a nice raise.
It's not uncommon for multiple illegal immigrant families to live in a small
single family home. Also, your kids can get a better education, food stamps
and health care so its a no brainer. Some places you can even vote too so
you can keep the bennies coming.

It's not uncommon for multiple illegal immigrant families to live in a small
single family home. Most American's don't find that living arrangement acceptable
for the long term.

[C J Campbell]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Chris" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >>
> >> If there are no jobs for these uneducated, unskilled workers, why do
they
> >> continue to come here?
> >
> > To sponge off every working american by getting free health care, and
> > welfare.
> >
>
> The solution to that is obvious. Eliminate "free" health care and
welfare.

Does it not strike you as odd that many of those thought to be coming to the
United States for "free" health care and welfare come from socialist
countries that already supposedly provide those things?

Truly, the xenophobia in this country is our greatest embarrassment.

[Roger]

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 02:02:04 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> wrote:

>
>"C Kingsbury" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>>
>> On the other hand, it's pretty clear the last thing we need are more
>> uneducated, unskilled workers. The market will always respond positively
>> to
>> more employees; it's good for keeping costs down. But social stability is
>> an
>> issue as well.
>>
>> I'll take all the Chinese engineers, Indian programmers, and European
>> designers that want to come here. Polish masons are good, as are Irish
>> plasterers. Educated professionals and skilled tradesmen we can always use
>> more of. But let's get unemployment in the inner cities down a bit before
>> we
>> let more in, don't you think?
>>
>
>If there are no jobs for these uneducated, unskilled workers, why do they
>continue to come here?

In one word. *Hope*

To many of the impoverished countries we are the source of hope. It
is part of our history and heritage. Remember how the country was
built and why we were given the Statue of Liberty. Many are escaping
a poverty that makes much of the poverty in this country look like
easy living.

Rarely does any country have a realistic view of other countries and
conversely few if any have a realistic view of any specific country.

Many European countries think of the US as if it were the "Wild West"
with all the people owning and carrying guns and lead flying right and
left. Many think of us as barbaric while a high percentage of us view
the European continent in the same light.

After all they had active terrorism long before we did... Neglecting
The bombings and assassinations on Wall Street and in the Capitol in
the 1800s, or the one room school in Michigan that was blown up in the
20s or 30s, or Oklahoma city...

It's just in recent years we've see a lot more active terrorism in
Europe than here so when it does happen here we have an over reaction.

The same thing that makes us a target for some, makes us a hope for
the future by others.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

>
assassinations

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Roger" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>If there are no jobs for these uneducated, unskilled workers, why do they
>>continue to come here?
>>
>
> In one word. *Hope*
>

I don't think they can live on *Hope*.

[Roger]

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:09:02 GMT, "C Kingsbury"
> wrote:

>
>"Wdtabor" > wrote in message
...
>> >
>> >They find jobs because they're willing to work at very low wages. The
>result
>> >of this is to depress wages in this segment of the labor market. Without
>> >illegal immigrants, lots of employers would have to offer higher wages to
>> >get lazy American citizens to come work for them.
>> >
>>
>> And then the price of whatever they make will go up high enough to become
>> noncompetitive in the world market, the factory will close, and those
>durned
>> foriegners will get the same jobs in shiny new factories in their own
>country.
>
>We're not talking about factory jobs here. Those have already migrated
>offshore because of labor/environmental regulations and basic cost issues
>that can't be worked around. We're talking about things like busboys,
>gardeners, ditch diggers, etc. These things can't be offshored.

Back quite some time ago, when I was farming I needed help to hoe
beans. True it was a minimum wage job, but many of the high school
students I knew were looking for work. I could not get one to
consider a hoe handle. So, I spent most of the Summer on a hoe handle
when not on a tractor and when I considered the hours it was a lot
less than I had offered to pay them.. Hoeing beans was not hard work,
but it was tedious and tiresome.

I have found that although there are many unskilled jobs in some areas
the only ones who will take them are the immigrants. So when it comes
to the farm labor I seriously doubt they are taking jobs away from
many locals.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>Of course, this does mean prices for the goods and services involved will go
>up. Without cheap Guatemalan nannies more yuppie mothers may choose to stay
>at home with the kids rather than hire a more expensive citizen. Her husband
>may choose to mow the lawn himself instead of paying a landscaper to do it.
>
>-cwk.
>

[Jay Honeck]

> I have found that although there are many unskilled jobs in some areas
> the only ones who will take them are the immigrants. So when it comes
> to the farm labor I seriously doubt they are taking jobs away from
> many locals.

I can vouch for that with housekeeping. In two years, I've only had one
American-born housekeeper that was worth a damn. They simply don't want to
work that hard.

Incidentally, we're the ONLY hotel in the area that won't hire illegal
aliens. I actually had one get verbally aggressive with me, when I asked
for her papers! She was absolutely indignant that I wouldn't hire her
without proper paperwork.

THAT is the real key to illegal immigration -- getting employers to strictly
adhere to the law.

Illegal immigrants are no different than illegal drugs -- if there were no
users, there would be no market for them.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[StellaStar]

>Incidentally, we're the ONLY hotel in the area that won't hire illegal
>aliens.

Bravo! Putting your money where your mouth is, the surest way to live your
principles. If more of us did that, there's be less to b*tch about...

[Blanche]

I loved Kerry's comment "...we'll provide assistance to send you
to the community college for retraining..." or something like that.

I just finished a 4 month contract doing a high-end database analysis
and redesign for a large commercial software package. The original
database was 1) not documented and 2) not relational. Not only did
I write all the docs for the original system (which will remain
in production) but I designed, implemented and tested the new
version (relational) in both oracle and mysql. And documented in
detail.

Understand, I have an alphabet after my name (many of you know I
teach computer science at the university level-often at the
graduate level) The front-end programming is already off-shore
and much of the rest of the programming is "off-shore" because the
contracted company is non-US but it did send to programmers to
the local office. I finished the DB, so about the only thing
left locally is final integration and selling the product.

So what can the community college teach me in re-training? I
already know how to say "you want fries with that?".

I guess my college-days jobs of short-order cook and bartender
will come in handy again.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Blanche" > wrote in message
...
>
> I loved Kerry's comment "...we'll provide assistance to send you
> to the community college for retraining..." or something like that.
>
> I just finished a 4 month contract doing a high-end database analysis
> and redesign for a large commercial software package. The original
> database was 1) not documented and 2) not relational. Not only did
> I write all the docs for the original system (which will remain
> in production) but I designed, implemented and tested the new
> version (relational) in both oracle and mysql. And documented in
> detail.
>
> Understand, I have an alphabet after my name (many of you know I
> teach computer science at the university level-often at the
> graduate level) The front-end programming is already off-shore
> and much of the rest of the programming is "off-shore" because the
> contracted company is non-US but it did send to programmers to
> the local office. I finished the DB, so about the only thing
> left locally is final integration and selling the product.
>
> So what can the community college teach me in re-training? I
> already know how to say "you want fries with that?".
>
> I guess my college-days jobs of short-order cook and bartender
> will come in handy again.
>

You can't have too many good bartenders.

[Earl Grieda]

"Blanche" > wrote in message
...
> I loved Kerry's comment "...we'll provide assistance to send you
> to the community college for retraining..." or something like that.
>
Perhaps Kerry also said that, but George said it in the 3rd debate, a few
times, while trying to answer the question on outsourcing.

The answer irritated me (whether from Bush or Kerry) since the jobs being
outsourced now require, at a minimum, a Bachelors degree, and many require a
Master's degree. I read somewhere today that low-end lawyer work is
starting to be outsourced.

Earl G

[Gary Drescher]

"Blanche" > wrote in message
...
>I loved Kerry's comment "...we'll provide assistance to send you
> to the community college for retraining..." or something like that.
>
> I just finished a 4 month contract doing a high-end database analysis
> and redesign for a large commercial software package. The original
> database was 1) not documented and 2) not relational. Not only did
> I write all the docs for the original system (which will remain
> in production) but I designed, implemented and tested the new
> version (relational) in both oracle and mysql. And documented in
> detail.
>
> Understand, I have an alphabet after my name (many of you know I
> teach computer science at the university level-often at the
> graduate level) The front-end programming is already off-shore
> and much of the rest of the programming is "off-shore" because the
> contracted company is non-US but it did send to programmers to
> the local office. I finished the DB, so about the only thing
> left locally is final integration and selling the product.
>
> So what can the community college teach me in re-training?

From either a left-wing or right-wing perspective, exporting the jobs of
relatively privileged, well-educated people (software engineers, lawyers,
etc.) is not unreasonable. From a left-wing human-rights perspective, there
is no reason that good jobs should be reserved for those who are already
well-off. From a right-wing free-market perspective, foreign workers should
be able to compete against us without government impediment.

What's objectionable instead is the contracting of low-skilled manufacturing
jobs to corporations that pay artificially depressed wages due to 1) absent
or inadequate protections for worker health and safety, coupled with
pervasive use of state violence (or state sponsorship or tolerance of
private violence) to disrupt labor organization; and 2) absent or inadequate
environmental protections, permitting corporations to destroy public
resources with impunity.

--Gary

[G.R. Patterson III]

StellaStar wrote:
>
> Bravo! Putting your money where your mouth is, the surest way to live your
> principles. If more of us did that, there's be less to b*tch about...

Everyone lives their principles -- it's just that some people don't have principles.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

[G.R. Patterson III]

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:
>
> "Blanche" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > I guess my college-days jobs of short-order cook and bartender
> > will come in handy again.
>
> You can't have too many good bartenders.

I'll drink to that!

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

[Blanche]

Earl Grieda > wrote:
>"Blanche" > wrote in message
>> I loved Kerry's comment "...we'll provide assistance to send you
>> to the community college for retraining..." or something like that.
>>
>Perhaps Kerry also said that, but George said it in the 3rd debate, a few
>times, while trying to answer the question on outsourcing.
>
>The answer irritated me (whether from Bush or Kerry) since the jobs being
>outsourced now require, at a minimum, a Bachelors degree, and many require a
>Master's degree. I read somewhere today that low-end lawyer work is
>starting to be outsourced.


mea culpa...I didn't watch the entire debate but noticed the quote
in the paper the next day. on the other hand, not sure it really
matters who said it. both probably have the same opinion.

Since I dropped out of law school, guess I made the right decision
there, too.

(*chortle*)

[kontiki]

Exactly. These laws (about hiring illegal immigrants) have been on the
books forever. They are now neither obeyed nor enforced. Why have laws
if they aren't enforced? Why should I have to obey laws??? Why should
I have to pay taxes??? What the hell... if ya let some people get away
ripping off the system why should the rest of us have to eat dirt?

Same old story....