AFSS response time

[[email protected]]

Has anyone else noticed that the time you're on hold to talk to a briefer is
getting longer and longer? I noticed this about a year ago when I still
lived in Florida and thought it was just a local problem. Now I live in
Virginia and they have the same problem here. It used to be you could get a
human on the phone in a minute or so. Now it is taking about 5 to 10.

Is this how the FAA is trying to kill the FSS system? They have made no
bones about wanting to reduce the coast of the FSS system.

[Teacherjh]

>>
[it took forever to get a briefer] when I still lived in Florida [...]
Now I live in Virginia and they have the same problem here.
[...] They have made no bones about wanting to reduce
the coast of the FSS system.
<<

Go further inland.

(sorry, couldn't resist. :)

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Louis L. Perley III]

" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Has anyone else noticed that the time you're on hold to talk to a briefer
is
> getting longer and longer? I noticed this about a year ago when I still
> lived in Florida and thought it was just a local problem. Now I live in
> Virginia and they have the same problem here. It used to be you could get
a
> human on the phone in a minute or so. Now it is taking about 5 to 10.
>
> Is this how the FAA is trying to kill the FSS system? They have made no
> bones about wanting to reduce the coast of the FSS system.
>
>
>

I generally do my Instrument training in the morning (6 or 7 am). I have
only once gone directly through to a briefer, but generally my wait on hold
has been no more than say 5 minutes or so, hasn't been a problem.

--
Louis L. Perley III
N46000 - C152
N370 - PA-23-250

[BTIZ]

I live in Southern NV.. our 1-800 WX Brief gets us the Reno FSS.. option 1,
speak to briefer..
takes about 1 min or less on average to get a briefer... but this afternoon
it did take more time.. but still less than one minute.

BT

" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Has anyone else noticed that the time you're on hold to talk to a briefer
> is
> getting longer and longer? I noticed this about a year ago when I still
> lived in Florida and thought it was just a local problem. Now I live in
> Virginia and they have the same problem here. It used to be you could get
> a
> human on the phone in a minute or so. Now it is taking about 5 to 10.
>
> Is this how the FAA is trying to kill the FSS system? They have made no
> bones about wanting to reduce the coast of the FSS system.
>
>
>

[C Kingsbury]

Up in Boston I usually get Bridgeport and occasionally Burlington or Bangor.
I've never held more than a minute or so and usually get a briefer within 15
seconds of pressing 1. Due to TFRs etc. I call for a live briefing before
any flight beyond the local area, VFR or IFR, and have never had a problem
getting through.

-cwk.

[Brad Z]

We use Leesburg VA AFSS, and the hold times have been awful. They claim
staffing shortages, but ADIZ doesn't help matters.

" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Has anyone else noticed that the time you're on hold to talk to a briefer
is
> getting longer and longer? I noticed this about a year ago when I still
> lived in Florida and thought it was just a local problem. Now I live in
> Virginia and they have the same problem here. It used to be you could get
a
> human on the phone in a minute or so. Now it is taking about 5 to 10.
>
> Is this how the FAA is trying to kill the FSS system? They have made no
> bones about wanting to reduce the coast of the FSS system.
>
>
>

[john smith]

The impostion of TFR's has been a boon to the AFSS system.
Whereas in the past, pilots used to just do a DUAT's brief, the creation
of the rolling TFR has made the AFSS brief the best protection you can
get. It's recorded so you can replay exactly what you were briefed.

wrote:
> Has anyone else noticed that the time you're on hold to talk to a briefer is
> getting longer and longer? I noticed this about a year ago when I still
> lived in Florida and thought it was just a local problem. Now I live in
> Virginia and they have the same problem here. It used to be you could get a
> human on the phone in a minute or so. Now it is taking about 5 to 10.
>
> Is this how the FAA is trying to kill the FSS system? They have made no
> bones about wanting to reduce the coast of the FSS system.
>
>
>

[Larry Dighera]

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:56:48 GMT, "
> wrote in
et>::

>Has anyone else noticed that the time you're on hold to talk to a briefer is
>getting longer and longer?

I've noticed that the wait time for a briefer is directly proportional
to the severity of the local weather. On clear days, the wait for a
briefer to answer is about 10 seconds maximum. Poor weather can
increase the wait time to 5 minutes. This is with Hawthorne FSS in
the Los Angeles area.

[Nathan Young]

Ditto for the Kankakee (Illinois) FSS. Option 1 for a briefer,
usually available in under 1 minute.

-Nathan


On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 20:42:19 -0700, "BTIZ" >
wrote:

>I live in Southern NV.. our 1-800 WX Brief gets us the Reno FSS.. option 1,
>speak to briefer..
>takes about 1 min or less on average to get a briefer... but this afternoon
>it did take more time.. but still less than one minute.
>
>BT
>
" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>> Has anyone else noticed that the time you're on hold to talk to a briefer
>> is
>> getting longer and longer? I noticed this about a year ago when I still
>> lived in Florida and thought it was just a local problem. Now I live in
>> Virginia and they have the same problem here. It used to be you could get
>> a
>> human on the phone in a minute or so. Now it is taking about 5 to 10.
>>
>> Is this how the FAA is trying to kill the FSS system? They have made no
>> bones about wanting to reduce the coast of the FSS system.
>>
>>
>>
>

[Carl Orton]

Ft Worth AFSS always seems to go right through. I think the max I've ever
waited was about 1 minute. Of course, as others noted, I'm VFR only so I
don't test the system on bad weather days.

I'll also second what the others say about checking for TFRs. Regardless of
how much preflight information I get off the computer/DUAT/etc., I always
call AFSS, even on short hops, just so that I have a record of checking on
NOTAMs.

Carl

" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Has anyone else noticed that the time you're on hold to talk to a briefer
is
> getting longer and longer? I noticed this about a year ago when I still
> lived in Florida and thought it was just a local problem. Now I live in
> Virginia and they have the same problem here. It used to be you could get
a
> human on the phone in a minute or so. Now it is taking about 5 to 10.
>
> Is this how the FAA is trying to kill the FSS system? They have made no
> bones about wanting to reduce the coast of the FSS system.
>
>
>

[Gary Drescher]

"Carl Orton" > wrote in message
...
> I'll also second what the others say about checking for TFRs. Regardless
> of
> how much preflight information I get off the computer/DUAT/etc., I always
> call AFSS, even on short hops, just so that I have a record of checking on
> NOTAMs.

DUATS keeps such a record as well. From the DUATS FAQ: "A DUATS route
briefing contains the same elements as a route briefing which is provided by
an FAA Briefer. The briefing is recorded by DUATS, and your receipt of the
data can be proven, should the need arise... The DUAT service is paid for by
the FAA, and is certified by the FAA as being equivalent to a live Flight
Service Specialist for pre-flight briefings."

--Gary

>
> Carl

[Newps]

john smith wrote:
> The impostion of TFR's has been a boon to the AFSS system.
> Whereas in the past, pilots used to just do a DUAT's brief, the creation
> of the rolling TFR has made the AFSS brief the best protection you can
> get. It's recorded so you can replay exactly what you were briefed.
>

So ask for the TFR's on your DUAT's brief. That's recorded and you have
a hard copy.

[Arnold Sten]

Brad Z wrote:
> We use Leesburg VA AFSS, and the hold times have been awful. They claim
> staffing shortages, but ADIZ doesn't help matters.

Not too long ago I flew into an airport in one of the Virginia valleys.
Could not raise the FSS on the radio to close my flight plan (I was
"buried" in a valley) I had to call Leesburg AFSS on my phone. I waited
20 minutes to get through.

[[email protected]]

"Teacherjh" > wrote in message
...[i]
> >>
> when I still lived in Florida [...]
> Now I live in Virginia and they have the same problem here.
> [...] They have made no bones about wanting to reduce
> the coast of the FSS system.
> <<
>
> Go further inland.

O'OH! Good one!

>
> (sorry, couldn't resist. :)
>
> Jose
>
> --
> (for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[[email protected]]

Yes, Leesburg is the one I use also. Seems like they have a problem.

By the way, where do you fly? I'm in Charlottesville.


"Brad Z" > wrote in message
news:dSmcd.142188$He1.55339@attbi_s01...
> We use Leesburg VA AFSS, and the hold times have been awful. They claim
> staffing shortages, but ADIZ doesn't help matters.
>
> " > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > Has anyone else noticed that the time you're on hold to talk to a
briefer
> is
> > getting longer and longer? I noticed this about a year ago when I still
> > lived in Florida and thought it was just a local problem. Now I live in
> > Virginia and they have the same problem here. It used to be you could
get
> a
> > human on the phone in a minute or so. Now it is taking about 5 to 10.
> >
> > Is this how the FAA is trying to kill the FSS system? They have made no
> > bones about wanting to reduce the coast of the FSS system.
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Sam]

Larry Dighera > wrote in message >...
> On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:56:48 GMT, "
> > wrote in
> et>::
>
> >Has anyone else noticed that the time you're on hold to talk to a briefer is
> >getting longer and longer?
>
> I've noticed that the wait time for a briefer is directly proportional
> to the severity of the local weather. On clear days, the wait for a
> briefer to answer is about 10 seconds maximum. Poor weather can
> increase the wait time to 5 minutes. This is with Hawthorne FSS in
> the Los Angeles area.

There's poor weather in LA?

[Brad Z]

" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Yes, Leesburg is the one I use also. Seems like they have a problem.
>
> By the way, where do you fly? I'm in Charlottesville.

Down Interstate 64 in Richmond, doing most of my flying/instructing out of
Chesterfield (FCI).

I thank Gawd I'm not flying under the ADIZ, so most of my weather & flight
plan work can be done using DUATS.

[Ben Jackson]

In article >,
Arnold Sten > wrote:
>"buried" in a valley) I had to call Leesburg AFSS on my phone. I waited
>20 minutes to get through.

Couldn't you just leave them a voice message?

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Gary Drescher]

"Arnold Sten" > wrote in message
...
> Brad Z wrote:
>> We use Leesburg VA AFSS, and the hold times have been awful. They claim
>> staffing shortages, but ADIZ doesn't help matters.
>
> Not too long ago I flew into an airport in one of the Virginia valleys.
> Could not raise the FSS on the radio to close my flight plan (I was
> "buried" in a valley) I had to call Leesburg AFSS on my phone. I waited 20
> minutes to get through.

If you have Internet access (or if someone whom you can phone does), you can
close the flight plan instantly via DUATS.

--Gary

[Michelle P]

I called this morning around 9:30 and was on hold for 10 minutes and
hung up. I tried again around 10:15 and was on hold for 15 minutes in
which time I pulled up the duats page, registered and got a briefing
before the Leesburg FSS specialist came on. I had a short talk with her
and she explained the administration is trying to privatize the
organization and that seemed interesting that since Bush specifically
said the FAA is a core government function.
They will know January if they still have jobs. People have transferred
and retired, they were not replaced.
Additionally she said they are trying to get an arrangement with Altoona
and Raleigh FSS to take overload, but red tape is stalling that.
She gave me the Managers phone number to call Monday. 703-777-1832
Have fun,
Michelle

wrote:

>Has anyone else noticed that the time you're on hold to talk to a briefer is
>getting longer and longer? I noticed this about a year ago when I still
>lived in Florida and thought it was just a local problem. Now I live in
>Virginia and they have the same problem here. It used to be you could get a
>human on the phone in a minute or so. Now it is taking about 5 to 10.
>
>Is this how the FAA is trying to kill the FSS system? They have made no
>bones about wanting to reduce the coast of the FSS system.
>
>
>
>
>

--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

[john smith]

Am I the only one that carries a list of the toll-free AFSS telephone
numbers in my flightbag?
If one doesn't work call another!

wrote:
> Has anyone else noticed that the time you're on hold to talk to a briefer is
> getting longer and longer? I noticed this about a year ago when I still
> lived in Florida and thought it was just a local problem. Now I live in
> Virginia and they have the same problem here. It used to be you could get a
> human on the phone in a minute or so. Now it is taking about 5 to 10.
>
> Is this how the FAA is trying to kill the FSS system? They have made no
> bones about wanting to reduce the coast of the FSS system.
>
>
>

[David Johnson]

> There's poor weather in LA?

Quite often. Never heard of the "June Gloom"? Low overcast along
the coastal shelf that usually (but not always) burns off by noon.
I've seen it solid for a week. Not just June, but much of the
year. Not Just L.A. either, but the entire west coast. Gets
worse the further North you go.

Beats thunderstorms and hurricanes, though.

[Jay Honeck]

> Beats thunderstorms and hurricanes, though.

Not in my book.

I'll take spotty, easily circumnavigated popcorn storms (which is what we
get in the Midwest) over a solid, low overcast, any day.

Of course, I like your temperatures better, at least from now through next
April!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Ron Natalie]

wrote:
> Has anyone else noticed that the time you're on hold to talk to a briefer is
> getting longer and longer? I noticed this about a year ago when I still
> lived in Florida and thought it was just a local problem. Now I live in
> Virginia and they have the same problem here. It used to be you could get a
> human on the phone in a minute or so. Now it is taking about 5 to 10.
>
Virginia is a special case. Anybody around the ADIZ HAS to call some
flight service station. You can't (legally) duat an ADIZ plan. Some
people do know the trick of calling some distant flight service station
(they all have toll free direct numbers separate from the 1800wxbrief
number). Of course, some people (unfortunately like Aviation Safety)
specically told people the opposite (to always call Leesburg) thinking
that Leesburg was more tuned in with capitol area tfr's and other
restrictions.

Of course, those based at the DC3 are STUCK having to call Leesburg.
No other outlet can set up the FRZ plans.

[C Kingsbury]

"David Johnson" > wrote in message
m...
> > There's poor weather in LA?
>
> Quite often. Never heard of the "June Gloom"? Low overcast along
> the coastal shelf that usually (but not always) burns off by noon.
> I've seen it solid for a week. Not just June, but much of the
> year. Not Just L.A. either, but the entire west coast. Gets
> worse the further North you go.
>
> Beats thunderstorms and hurricanes, though.

Yeah, but we don't get earthquakes, mudslides, forest fires, or riots up
here in New England, either. Though if the Red Sox manage to beat the
Yankees, all bets are off...

-cwk.

[Newps]

C Kingsbury wrote:


>
>
> Yeah, but we don't get earthquakes, mudslides, forest fires, or riots up
> here in New England, either. Though if the Red Sox manage to beat the
> Yankees, all bets are off...

Lucky for you there's no chance of that. There's a better chance the
Packers will make the playoffs. See those Vikes last night Jay? 605
yards of offense. Once the defense heals up it will be a machine.

[Sam]

(David Johnson) wrote in message >...
> > There's poor weather in LA?
>
> Quite often. Never heard of the "June Gloom"? Low overcast along
> the coastal shelf that usually (but not always) burns off by noon.
> I've seen it solid for a week. Not just June, but much of the
> year. Not Just L.A. either, but the entire west coast. Gets
> worse the further North you go.
>
> Beats thunderstorms and hurricanes, though.


Yes, it certainly does. I moved to FL from Denver about a year ago,
and got to see both hurricane Frances and Jeanne from ground zero
(Jupiter FL, north of West Palm Beach). Lots of other convective
activity otherwise.

I love SoCal... I was born in Northridge but we moved away a couple
years later. Still visit family there every couple of years. Someday
I'll probably end up back there!

[C Kingsbury]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
> C Kingsbury wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, but we don't get earthquakes, mudslides, forest fires, or riots up
> > here in New England, either. Though if the Red Sox manage to beat the
> > Yankees, all bets are off...
>
> Lucky for you there's no chance of that. There's a better chance the
> Packers will make the playoffs. See those Vikes last night Jay? 605
> yards of offense. Once the defense heals up it will be a machine.

After Saturday night's bloodbath I didn't think there was a chance either,
but that's turning around. The bullpen is getting its job done and all we
need is one or two of our stronger hitters that have gone cold to wake up
and we'll be back. We did sweep the Yanks 4-0 twice this season, mind you,
so it can be done. A lot hinges on what Schilling's ankle does tonight. If
he can pitch 5-6 good innings we'll take it to game 7 at least.

Then again, I'm a lot more concerned about the Nov. 2nd series these days,
and I ain't rootin' for the home team...

-cwk.

[Montblack]

("Newps" wrote)
> Lucky for you there's no chance of that. There's a better chance the
> Packers will make the playoffs. See those Vikes last night Jay? 605
> yards of offense. Once the defense heals up it will be a machine.


I watched the Sunday Night Vikings game too, but can't recall - was that 605
yards of offense ours or the Saint's? <g>

Don't be surprised if Minnesota gains 750 yards against Indy on Monday Night
Football (Nov 8th) ....and doesn't win the game.

Footballs will be flying that night!!!


Montblack
(Over 40 years of ....Purple)

[Newps]

C Kingsbury wrote:


>
> Then again, I'm a lot more concerned about the Nov. 2nd series these days,
> and I ain't rootin' for the home team...

There's a foreign team running?

[C Kingsbury]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> C Kingsbury wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Then again, I'm a lot more concerned about the Nov. 2nd series these
days,
> > and I ain't rootin' for the home team...
>
> There's a foreign team running?

I was referring to home as in Boston. But now that you mention it, the
Democrats ought to change their name to the "Let's Turn America Into Europe"
Party.

-cwk.

[C Kingsbury]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
> C Kingsbury wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, but we don't get earthquakes, mudslides, forest fires, or riots up
> > here in New England, either. Though if the Red Sox manage to beat the
> > Yankees, all bets are off...
>
> Lucky for you there's no chance of that. There's a better chance the
> Packers will make the playoffs.

Allow me to say, "har har!" Perhaps I should place my bets on the Packers
now?

It is a zoo in Boston tonight. crowds well into the tens of thousands
roaming the city like packs of drunken orangutans, the whole situation five
minutes away from complete riots. And it will only get worse...

-cwk.

[Jay Honeck]

> Don't be surprised if Minnesota gains 750 yards against Indy on Monday
> Night
> Football (Nov 8th) ....and doesn't win the game.

There are two things in this world you can bank on:

1. The Cubs will collapse late in the season
2. The Vikings will lose the big games.

They are forever cursed (and rightfully so) for moving their football
indoors. Bud Grant, Fran Tarkenton, and the Purple People Eaters were THE
definitive Minnesota team, from a proud by-gone era.

Worse, it's just GOT to drive those guys crazy to watch the antics of losers
like Randy Moss, defaming the once-proud Vikings.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Larry Dighera]

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:56:48 GMT, "
> wrote in
et>:

>Has anyone else noticed that the time you're on hold to talk to a briefer is
>getting longer and longer? I noticed this about a year ago when I still
>lived in Florida and thought it was just a local problem. Now I live in
>Virginia and they have the same problem here. It used to be you could get a
>human on the phone in a minute or so. Now it is taking about 5 to 10.
>
>Is this how the FAA is trying to kill the FSS system? They have made no
>bones about wanting to reduce the coast of the FSS system.
>
>


LOCKHEED MARTIN: AFSS PERFORMANCE IS IMPROVING
(http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/973-full.html#196306)
Right up front, we'll say we've heard the same complaints about
Lockheed Martin's handling of the Flight Service Station contract as
everyone else: Long wait times, dropped calls, lost flight plans and
briefers lacking local knowledge of the areas they cover. Lockheed
Martin's Dan Courain, the company's VP of aviation services, says he
has gotten a similar earful and at AOPA Expo on Thursday, Courain told
AVweb that LockMart is doing something about. Specifically, it has
rewired the call waiting system to delay bumping of calls from their
origination area to other parts of the system, where briefers may be
umfamiliar with local landmarks, airspace and conditions.
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/973-full.html#196306

[Larry Dighera]

On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 13:32:52 GMT, Larry Dighera >
wrote in >:

>LOCKHEED MARTIN: AFSS PERFORMANCE IS IMPROVING
>(http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/973-full.html#196306)
>Right up front, we'll say we've heard the same complaints about
>Lockheed Martin's handling of the Flight Service Station contract as
>everyone else: Long wait times, dropped calls, lost flight plans and
>briefers lacking local knowledge of the areas they cover. Lockheed
>Martin's Dan Courain, the company's VP of aviation services, says he
>has gotten a similar earful and at AOPA Expo on Thursday, Courain told
>AVweb that LockMart is doing something about. Specifically, it has
>rewired the call waiting system to delay bumping of calls from their
>origination area to other parts of the system, where briefers may be
>umfamiliar with local landmarks, airspace and conditions.
>http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/973-full.html#196306


AVWEB'S AOPA EXPO 2007 PODCAST #3:
LOCKHEED MARTIN SAYS AFSS PERFORMANCE IS IMPROVING
(http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/973-full.html#196307)

(http://media.avweb.com/banmanavweb/a.aspx?ZoneID=0&BannerID=1003&AdvertiserID=20&CampaignID=2252&Task=Click&SiteID=19&RandomNumber=680016)

(http://media.avweb.com/banmanavweb/a.aspx?ZoneID=0&BannerID=733&AdvertiserID=18&CampaignID=1725&Task=Click&SiteID=19&RandomNumber=117570)

Anyone who's gotten a telephone preflight briefing during the past
year knows that Lockheed Martin has had its troubles in delivering
this important service to pilots. At AOPA Expo this week, AVweb's Paul
Bertorelli asked Lockheed Martin Dan Courain what the company has done
to improve its service. Here's his report.
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/973-full.html#196307

[YougotitSam]

AFSS Performance improving? Based on who's criteria?

We all know the FAA is clueless
Lockheed Martin is and will be self-serving(Statistical lies
and propaganda)

So who says it is improving? The tooth fairy?


Larry Dighera wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 13:32:52 GMT, Larry Dighera >
> wrote in >:
>
>> LOCKHEED MARTIN: AFSS PERFORMANCE IS IMPROVING
>> (http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/973-full.html#196306)
>> Right up front, we'll say we've heard the same complaints about
>> Lockheed Martin's handling of the Flight Service Station contract as
>> everyone else: Long wait times, dropped calls, lost flight plans and
>> briefers lacking local knowledge of the areas they cover. Lockheed
>> Martin's Dan Courain, the company's VP of aviation services, says he
>> has gotten a similar earful and at AOPA Expo on Thursday, Courain told
>> AVweb that LockMart is doing something about. Specifically, it has
>> rewired the call waiting system to delay bumping of calls from their
>> origination area to other parts of the system, where briefers may be
>> umfamiliar with local landmarks, airspace and conditions.
>> http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/973-full.html#196306
>
>
> AVWEB'S AOPA EXPO 2007 PODCAST #3:
> LOCKHEED MARTIN SAYS AFSS PERFORMANCE IS IMPROVING
> (http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/973-full.html#196307)
>
> (http://media.avweb.com/banmanavweb/a.aspx?ZoneID=0&BannerID=1003&AdvertiserID=20&CampaignID=2252&Task=Click&SiteID=19&RandomNumber=680016)
>
> (http://media.avweb.com/banmanavweb/a.aspx?ZoneID=0&BannerID=733&AdvertiserID=18&CampaignID=1725&Task=Click&SiteID=19&RandomNumber=117570)
>
> Anyone who's gotten a telephone preflight briefing during the past
> year knows that Lockheed Martin has had its troubles in delivering
> this important service to pilots. At AOPA Expo this week, AVweb's Paul
> Bertorelli asked Lockheed Martin Dan Courain what the company has done
> to improve its service. Here's his report.
> http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/973-full.html#196307

[R. Gardner]

The weekend after they closed the FSS at IPT my local airport, I called to
file a VFR to HMZ. I spent twenty minutes on hold with a recording
repeatedly saying " please hold your call is important to us", I thought if
that was true they would be on the line by now. Anyway I gave up, went to
the plane and after firing up in front of the hanger I called on the radio
and filed. With the relay radio at IPT that worked great, then on return
did the same thing once high enough to call Altoona FSS (also closed) on the
radio.

I thought about it and later called and filed an official complaint. In a
few days I had a call from the Lockheed manager out at Nashville. Nice guy,
but only really said they are on a learning and training curve and they will
improve very shortly and he was sorry for the inconvenience.

On top of that it appears now you need to call one toll free number to file
and then a different number to close. That seems to be not only odd, but I
don't remember seeing that advertised prior. My be my CRS :)

Ron Gardner

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:56:48 GMT, "
> > wrote in
> et>:
>
>>Has anyone else noticed that the time you're on hold to talk to a briefer
>>is
>>getting longer and longer? I noticed this about a year ago when I still
>>lived in Florida and thought it was just a local problem. Now I live in
>>Virginia and they have the same problem here. It used to be you could get
>>a
>>human on the phone in a minute or so. Now it is taking about 5 to 10.
>>
>>Is this how the FAA is trying to kill the FSS system? They have made no
>>bones about wanting to reduce the coast of the FSS system.
>>
>>
>
>
> LOCKHEED MARTIN: AFSS PERFORMANCE IS IMPROVING
> (http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/973-full.html#196306)
> Right up front, we'll say we've heard the same complaints about
> Lockheed Martin's handling of the Flight Service Station contract as
> everyone else: Long wait times, dropped calls, lost flight plans and
> briefers lacking local knowledge of the areas they cover. Lockheed
> Martin's Dan Courain, the company's VP of aviation services, says he
> has gotten a similar earful and at AOPA Expo on Thursday, Courain told
> AVweb that LockMart is doing something about. Specifically, it has
> rewired the call waiting system to delay bumping of calls from their
> origination area to other parts of the system, where briefers may be
> umfamiliar with local landmarks, airspace and conditions.
> http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/973-full.html#196306

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Larry Dighera > wrote:

> LOCKHEED MARTIN: AFSS PERFORMANCE IS IMPROVING
> (

Given how lousy it was when the turnover occurred, no one should
get an "atta-boy" for improvements. (>-{

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[YougotitSam]

Is this how the FAA is trying to kill the FSS system? They
have made no
bones about wanting to reduce the coast of the FSS system.


The FAA budget is tight. The FAA needs more money for social
programs rather than silly air traffic control and safety
stuff. Who cares about pilots and air safety anyway?

Let's all just Kumbaya!!!

https://employees.faa.gov/employee_services/employee_assist/associations_programs/

[FAA EEO]

YougotitSam wrote:
> Is this how the FAA is trying to kill the FSS system? They have made no
> bones about wanting to reduce the coast of the FSS system.
>
>
> The FAA budget is tight. The FAA needs more money for social programs
> rather than silly air traffic control and safety stuff. Who cares about
> pilots and air safety anyway?
>
> Let's all just Kumbaya!!!
>
> https://employees.faa.gov/employee_services/employee_assist/associations_programs/
>

[Larry Dighera]

On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 11:30:15 -0400, Bob Noel
> wrote in
>:

>In article >,
> Larry Dighera > wrote:
>
>> LOCKHEED MARTIN: AFSS PERFORMANCE IS IMPROVING
>> (
>
>Given how lousy it was when the turnover occurred, no one should
>get an "atta-boy" for improvements. (>-{

Agreed. Given LockMart's admission of the cause of their poor
performance being untested software and inadequate personnel training,
they must not have felt Flight Service was worthy of a professional
transition.

<rant>
The current regime's dogged determination to privatize virtually all
of federal government appears to be an attempt to remove government
regulation and accountability from the people, so that large
corporations can pillage the federal coffers. This privatization of
FSS is only the prelude to complete ATC privatization, IMO.

To see how effective privatization is in achieving those goals, one
only needs to look at Bush's illogical war in Iraq:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cJlJudDtVE
http://iraqforsale.org/ . Prisoner interrogation is out-sourced;
private contractors are not signatory to the Geneva Convention.
Blackwater security guards are exempt from local and federal laws
while operating in Iraq. Halliburton charges US tax payers $99.00 per
load to wash solders laundry, and solders are ordered not to do their
own. This article <http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=30834> is
two years old; there are over 50,000 Peruvian mercenaries now in Iraq.
If this war wasn't about corporate greed, Bush could have poured the
2-1/2 billion dollars a week it's costing us into jobs for the Iraqi
youth, or purchased all the weapons from the insurgents with plenty of
money to spare. When will the American people wake up to what the
Bush regime is doing in their name?

Ask the former Enron employees how responsible large corporations are
in meeting their retirement obligations. That's the sort of
accountability you can expect from privatization.
</rant>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"YougotitSam" > wrote in message
...
>
>Is this how the FAA is trying to kill the FSS system? They have made no
> bones about wanting to reduce the coast of the FSS system.
>
>
> The FAA budget is tight. The FAA needs more money for social programs
> rather than silly air traffic control and safety stuff. Who cares about
> pilots and air safety anyway?
>

FSS is costly and unnecessary. Killing it is a very good idea.

[Todd W. Deckard]

It may be expensive ($15 per pilot contact) but it is still seems necessary
for me personally.

My destinations in the airplane are to out of the way places (including 2P2
just north of you Steve).

I am getting all my WX information over a rotary dial phone, and in some
cases using a void time clearance to depart.
I don't have any form of weather downlink (yet) so I am relying on regular
radio contacts with an AFSS station to
derive a weather picture while aloft. With a tattered laminated copy of the
reporting stations, and a patient briefer
I can derive a very good picture of the current and forecast conditions.

Even when I am not flying in the stone age, in Door County, or rural
Indiana; I used to appreciate talking to a weather specialist to confirm my
appraisal of forecast already derived via DUATS. In the old days, you
could even ask to speak
with the staff meterologist. Now it may have been a hoot to have Todd
Spam-Can challenge the current models based
on his trusty E6B and the winds aloft; but I am convinced the exchanges
augmented my personal safety when operating on the practical limits.

With weather (or perhaps the incapacity to deal with it) being a frequent
component in fatal aviation accidents;
I don't understand the logic in effectively retiring one of our weather
tools.

Todd


"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
...
>
> "YougotitSam" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>Is this how the FAA is trying to kill the FSS system? They have made no
>> bones about wanting to reduce the coast of the FSS system.
>>
>>
>> The FAA budget is tight. The FAA needs more money for social programs
>> rather than silly air traffic control and safety stuff. Who cares about
>> pilots and air safety anyway?
>>
>
> FSS is costly and unnecessary. Killing it is a very good idea.
>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Todd W. Deckard" > wrote in message
...
>
> It may be expensive ($15 per pilot contact) but it is still seems
> necessary for me personally.
>

Are you willing to pay the full cost of a telephone weather briefing?


>
> My destinations in the airplane are to out of the way places (including
> 2P2 just north of you Steve).
>
> I am getting all my WX information over a rotary dial phone, and in some
> cases using a void time clearance to depart.
> I don't have any form of weather downlink (yet) so I am relying on regular
> radio contacts with an AFSS station to
> derive a weather picture while aloft. With a tattered laminated copy of
> the reporting stations, and a patient briefer
> I can derive a very good picture of the current and forecast conditions.
>

I get current conditions by listening to the various ASOS/AWOS/ATIS
broadcasts from sites ahead of me.


>
> Even when I am not flying in the stone age, in Door County, or rural
> Indiana; I used to appreciate talking to a weather specialist to confirm
> my appraisal of forecast already derived via DUATS. In the old days,
> you could even ask to speak
> with the staff meterologist. Now it may have been a hoot to have Todd
> Spam-Can challenge the current models based
> on his trusty E6B and the winds aloft; but I am convinced the exchanges
> augmented my personal safety when operating on the practical limits.
>
> With weather (or perhaps the incapacity to deal with it) being a frequent
> component in fatal aviation accidents;
> I don't understand the logic in effectively retiring one of our weather
> tools.
>

If there's sufficient demand for service as you like it someone will likely
offer it. I object to being taxed to pay for services I don't use.

[Todd W. Deckard]

No, I wouldn't pay for a live briefing (and shame on me); or if I did it
would only be a single snapshot
at the time of departure. I am not alone in that pay per drink aviation
services would be a disincentive to
safety.

Its an interesting debate. In general, I am in favor of user-fee taxation.
I would prefer the users pay for the
system and the funds are sequestered to that activity. I would add the
caveat that some activities (or some
percentage of many activities) are supplied thru the general fund in
proportion to the rough national need.

The current FAA funding satisifies this for me; the bulk is a fuel surcharge
and percentage is paid for out
of general taxes. This is appropriate because a country needs a highway
system even if I don't use it. Our daughter goes to Catholic school but I
don't begrudge my property taxes becuase a national school system is
necessary.

I will confess though, in the FAA/AFSS debate I seem be to dead set against
direct use based taxation. I believe
its a disincentive to safety and also that I probably enjoy richer service
without it. I also don't see how my general tax
burden is going to go down if there is a privatization shift, this is a bait
and switch way to raise revenues. I also believe that strong small aviation
in the US is a component to our safe national airspace system. It forms the
"farm leagues" for the airlines and becuase the average competency of the
fellow in the Aeronca Champ is so high, the whole system taps a very capable
pilot base.

This is not the case in many other countries where you sit in the back and
worry about who is sitting in the front.

To return to the AFSS debate, it amazes me that we felt we would derive some
commercial efficiency by
bidding this to a large military contractor with no experience developing a
call center and no transaction profit incentive. Not to minimize the AFSS
infrastructure but it is a very easy process to analyze and scale for.
This was really screwed up at the most basic levels. If we are going to
shut it down, shut it down -- but the current system is going to do more
harm than good and I feel in my bones there will be an increase in small
aircraft accidents tracable to the shoddy quality.

Good debate,
I guess I agree with you -- but don't want to pay?

Todd



"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
...
>
> If there's sufficient demand for service as you like it someone will
> likely offer it. I object to being taxed to pay for services I don't use.
>

[Larry Dighera]

On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 06:24:42 -0500, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> wrote in
>:

>I get current conditions by listening to the various ASOS/AWOS/ATIS
>broadcasts from sites ahead of me.

Are you saying you telephone those facilities before departure, so
that you can reach a decision to launch or not?

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>
> Are you saying you telephone those facilities before departure, so
> that you can reach a decision to launch or not?
>

No, I use DUAT before launch.

[JGalban via AviationKB.com]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> I object to being taxed to pay for services I don't use.

I think a more common objection these days is being taxed for services that
suck.

If the FAA were to make the AFSS system disappear, do you think you would
pay less tax? More likely is that you would be then taxed for services that
didn't exist. I can't imagine you'd like that better.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200710/1

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"JGalban via AviationKB.com" <u32749@uwe> wrote in message
news:7971843dbb784@uwe...
>
> If the FAA were to make the AFSS system disappear, do you think you would
> pay less tax?
>

I think if the AFSS system disappeared the federal budget would be less than
it would be if the AFSS system is retained.

[Mike Isaksen]

"Todd W. Deckard" wrote in message ...
> It may be expensive ($15 per pilot contact) but it is still seems
> necessary for me personally.

I thought the number was closer to $20 per phone contact. Since Student
Pilots are heavily encouraged by their CFIs to call FSS before every launch,
I suspect the call count would drop severely with any $/call program. So I
think we got the best compromise.

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote:

> "JGalban via AviationKB.com" <u32749@uwe> wrote in message
> news:7971843dbb784@uwe...
> >
> > If the FAA were to make the AFSS system disappear, do you think you would
> > pay less tax?
> >
>
> I think if the AFSS system disappeared the federal budget would be less than
> it would be if the AFSS system is retained.

History has not shown this to be a reasonable expectation.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
>
> History has not shown this to be a reasonable expectation.
>

How so?

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote:

> > History has not shown this to be a reasonable expectation.
>
> How so?

The congress has not demonstrated an ability to reduce the budget.
The normal action of congress is to take "savings" and immediately
allocate it (and more) to other projects.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
>
> The congress has not demonstrated an ability to reduce the budget.
> The normal action of congress is to take "savings" and immediately
> allocate it (and more) to other projects.
>

True dat. But if the program that was cut to produce the "savings" had not
been cut the budget would be that much larger.