Rating to Transport People Voluntarily

[Gary G]

Can a Private Pilot transport people for an organization or for "volunteer" purposes.
Examples: Red Cross, transporting people for medical services (cancer patients) etc.?

I've wondered about being able to volunteer services for organizations.

Would they be able to "split costs" at all?
Or is it for transport only?

Thanks!

[Ron Natalie]

Gary G wrote:
> Can a Private Pilot transport people for an organization or for "volunteer" purposes.
> Examples: Red Cross, transporting people for medical services (cancer patients) etc.?
>
> I've wondered about being able to volunteer services for organizations.
>
> Would they be able to "split costs" at all?
> Or is it for transport only?
>
Yes. It's what allows organizations such as AngelFlight to exist.

[NW_PILOT]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
> Gary G wrote:
> > Can a Private Pilot transport people for an organization or for
"volunteer" purposes.
> > Examples: Red Cross, transporting people for medical services (cancer
patients) etc.?
> >
> > I've wondered about being able to volunteer services for organizations.
> >
> > Would they be able to "split costs" at all?
> > Or is it for transport only?
> >
> Yes. It's what allows organizations such as AngelFlight to exist.

Be sure if you want to do that you look at the requirements it can be real
prohibitive. Angel Flight requires 300 hours Total time and 75 hours cross
country 25 in make and model or something like that and they charge you an
annual fee to do it. Not sure of other organizations i have only herd of
angel flight. If I was to volunteer my time and aircraft and the expenses
that go along with it no way would I want to pay an annual fee.

[James M. Knox]

"NW_PILOT" > wrote in
:

>> Yes. It's what allows organizations such as AngelFlight to exist.
>
> Be sure if you want to do that you look at the requirements it can be
> real prohibitive. Angel Flight requires 300 hours Total time and 75
> hours cross country 25 in make and model or something like that and
> they charge you an annual fee to do it. Not sure of other
> organizations i have only herd of angel flight. If I was to volunteer
> my time and aircraft and the expenses that go along with it no way
> would I want to pay an annual fee.

That answer is not entirely correct. Angel Flight is made up of six
different regional organization, under the unbrella Angel Flight
America. Although there is a move to standardize everything as much as
possible, each region sets its own specific requirements. Some only
require a Private Pilot license, while others want an instrument rating
and a minimum number of hours (for example, Angel Flight South Central
wants 200 hours PIC, total, and proof of insurance).

It's not as arbitrary or random as it may sound. Each region has
weather that may be unique - for example, Angel Flight North East has
long required an instrument rating, because it is so scuzzy up there so
much of the time. Whereas South Central only recently required one, and
the minimum 200 hours, and that was almost entirely due to insurance
requirements. [Actually, they still don't require an instrument rating
- but if you are VFR only then they want you to schedule an IFR backup
pilot "just in case." And with our weather, 95% of the time, VFR works
just fine.]

Check them out. Go to the web site and find your own region. Find out
what THEY want. And talk with other Angel Flight pilots. It's a great
excuse to fly, and a great feeling to help folks - whether you fly
patients or blood runs or whatever you do to help out.

James Knox
Director
Angel Flight South Central

[NW_PILOT]

"James M. Knox" > wrote in message
2...
> "NW_PILOT" > wrote in
> :
>
> >> Yes. It's what allows organizations such as AngelFlight to exist.
> >
> > Be sure if you want to do that you look at the requirements it can be
> > real prohibitive. Angel Flight requires 300 hours Total time and 75
> > hours cross country 25 in make and model or something like that and
> > they charge you an annual fee to do it. Not sure of other
> > organizations i have only herd of angel flight. If I was to volunteer
> > my time and aircraft and the expenses that go along with it no way
> > would I want to pay an annual fee.
>
> That answer is not entirely correct. Angel Flight is made up of six
> different regional organization, under the unbrella Angel Flight
> America. Although there is a move to standardize everything as much as
> possible, each region sets its own specific requirements. Some only
> require a Private Pilot license, while others want an instrument rating
> and a minimum number of hours (for example, Angel Flight South Central
> wants 200 hours PIC, total, and proof of insurance).
>
> It's not as arbitrary or random as it may sound. Each region has
> weather that may be unique - for example, Angel Flight North East has
> long required an instrument rating, because it is so scuzzy up there so
> much of the time. Whereas South Central only recently required one, and
> the minimum 200 hours, and that was almost entirely due to insurance
> requirements. [Actually, they still don't require an instrument rating
> - but if you are VFR only then they want you to schedule an IFR backup
> pilot "just in case." And with our weather, 95% of the time, VFR works
> just fine.]
>
> Check them out. Go to the web site and find your own region. Find out
> what THEY want. And talk with other Angel Flight pilots. It's a great
> excuse to fly, and a great feeling to help folks - whether you fly
> patients or blood runs or whatever you do to help out.
>
> James Knox
> Director
> Angel Flight South Central


I can understand the Flight time requirements and the insurance requirements
but to pay a mandatory annual fee I do not understand?

As stated on the Angel Flight web site "The cost to join is only $50, and
the annual dues are $35" I can understand charging non pilots a membership
fee but pilots that provide a volunteer service should not be charged. I bet
if they did not charge pilots these fees they would get a lot more pilots
volunteering.

The way I see angel flight is like having to pay a member ship fee to
volunteer in a soup kitchen when your providing the soup. A company with
good intentions.

Remember to be a NPO only 1% of every dollar donated needs to go to the
organization.

[C Kingsbury]

"Gary G" > wrote in message
...
> Can a Private Pilot transport people for an organization or for
"volunteer" purposes.
> Examples: Red Cross, transporting people for medical services (cancer
patients) etc.?
>
> I've wondered about being able to volunteer services for organizations.
>
> Would they be able to "split costs" at all?
> Or is it for transport only?

Relevant FARs:

http://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part61-113-FAR.shtml

This also provides for so-called "charitable airlift" where people make a
donation to, say, go for a ride in a plane, assuming a bunch of conditions
are met. Also allows reimbursement of full (as opposed to proportional)
expenses if involved in SAR activites, which I assume is there to allow CAP
to operate as it does.

-cwk.

[Ron Natalie]

C Kingsbury wrote:

>
> This also provides for so-called "charitable airlift" where people make a
> donation to, say, go for a ride in a plane, assuming a bunch of conditions
> are met. Also allows reimbursement of full (as opposed to proportional)
> expenses if involved in SAR activites, which I assume is there to allow CAP
> to operate as it does.
>
Actually, it has nothing to do with either one.

The Charitable Airlift reg is an exemption to allow someone to pay to be flown
(just doesn't flown to the pilot).

[Steve Foley]

I contacted Angelflight shortly after I got my ticket. The web site said
that you could volunteer to be co-pilot w/o IFR rating.

I'm still waiting for a response. It's only been eight years.





"NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
...
>
> "James M. Knox" > wrote in message
> 2...
> > "NW_PILOT" > wrote in
> > :
> >
> > >> Yes. It's what allows organizations such as AngelFlight to exist.
> > >
> > > Be sure if you want to do that you look at the requirements it can be
> > > real prohibitive. Angel Flight requires 300 hours Total time and 75
> > > hours cross country 25 in make and model or something like that and
> > > they charge you an annual fee to do it. Not sure of other
> > > organizations i have only herd of angel flight. If I was to volunteer
> > > my time and aircraft and the expenses that go along with it no way
> > > would I want to pay an annual fee.
> >
> > That answer is not entirely correct. Angel Flight is made up of six
> > different regional organization, under the unbrella Angel Flight
> > America. Although there is a move to standardize everything as much as
> > possible, each region sets its own specific requirements. Some only
> > require a Private Pilot license, while others want an instrument rating
> > and a minimum number of hours (for example, Angel Flight South Central
> > wants 200 hours PIC, total, and proof of insurance).
> >
> > It's not as arbitrary or random as it may sound. Each region has
> > weather that may be unique - for example, Angel Flight North East has
> > long required an instrument rating, because it is so scuzzy up there so
> > much of the time. Whereas South Central only recently required one, and
> > the minimum 200 hours, and that was almost entirely due to insurance
> > requirements. [Actually, they still don't require an instrument rating
> > - but if you are VFR only then they want you to schedule an IFR backup
> > pilot "just in case." And with our weather, 95% of the time, VFR works
> > just fine.]
> >
> > Check them out. Go to the web site and find your own region. Find out
> > what THEY want. And talk with other Angel Flight pilots. It's a great
> > excuse to fly, and a great feeling to help folks - whether you fly
> > patients or blood runs or whatever you do to help out.
> >
> > James Knox
> > Director
> > Angel Flight South Central
>
>
> I can understand the Flight time requirements and the insurance
requirements
> but to pay a mandatory annual fee I do not understand?
>
> As stated on the Angel Flight web site "The cost to join is only $50, and
> the annual dues are $35" I can understand charging non pilots a membership
> fee but pilots that provide a volunteer service should not be charged. I
bet
> if they did not charge pilots these fees they would get a lot more pilots
> volunteering.
>
> The way I see angel flight is like having to pay a member ship fee to
> volunteer in a soup kitchen when your providing the soup. A company with
> good intentions.
>
> Remember to be a NPO only 1% of every dollar donated needs to go to the
> organization.
>
>

[Blanche]

"Angel Flight America" is a confederation of 6 individual regional
Angel Flights. The specific requirements to be a pilot vary from region
to region. As for the membership fee...AngelFlight West is $35/year
and essentially funds our very few paid staff. Organizations like this
don't work well entirely volunteer. Someone must always be available
to answer the phone, coordinate with the many (in the hundreds!) of
medical organizations that use our services, deal with state and
federal reporting requirements, etc.

For more info, check out

www.angelflightamerica.org

[Blanche]

NW_PILOT > wrote:
[snip]
>I can understand the Flight time requirements and the insurance requirements
>but to pay a mandatory annual fee I do not understand?
>
>As stated on the Angel Flight web site "The cost to join is only $50, and
>the annual dues are $35" I can understand charging non pilots a membership
>fee but pilots that provide a volunteer service should not be charged. I bet
>if they did not charge pilots these fees they would get a lot more pilots
>volunteering.

Betcha it wouldn't.

[Steven Barnes]

I just joined Angel Flight Central. Never was told of or have seen a
bill/fee. Better not.


"Blanche" > wrote in message
...
> NW_PILOT > wrote:
> [snip]
> >I can understand the Flight time requirements and the insurance
requirements
> >but to pay a mandatory annual fee I do not understand?
> >
> >As stated on the Angel Flight web site "The cost to join is only $50, and
> >the annual dues are $35" I can understand charging non pilots a
membership
> >fee but pilots that provide a volunteer service should not be charged. I
bet
> >if they did not charge pilots these fees they would get a lot more pilots
> >volunteering.
>
> Betcha it wouldn't.
>

[C Kingsbury]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
> C Kingsbury wrote:
>
> >
> > This also provides for so-called "charitable airlift" where people make
a
> > donation to, say, go for a ride in a plane, assuming a bunch of
conditions
> > are met. Also allows reimbursement of full (as opposed to proportional)
> > expenses if involved in SAR activites, which I assume is there to allow
CAP
> > to operate as it does.
> >
> Actually, it has nothing to do with either one.
>
> The Charitable Airlift reg is an exemption to allow someone to pay to be
flown
> (just doesn't flown to the pilot).

Read subsection (e).

-cwk.

[Robert M. Gary]

"NW_PILOT" > wrote in message >...
> The way I see angel flight is like having to pay a member ship fee to
> volunteer in a soup kitchen when your providing the soup. A company with
> good intentions.

Very few of the pilot members ever fly missions. There are a huge
number of pilots that just want to be members. Also, they really do
need some way to pay for the office. It comes down to the fact that
they ask for it and the existing pilots don't complain. From their
point of view there is no reason to change. I get mine waved because
I'm a checkout CFI (or whatever they call it now). However, I still
send them $40 or so every year because they are a good org.

-Robert

[Jason]

James can you give me a gmail invite please?

Jason Spalding




"NW_PILOT" > wrote in message >...
> "James M. Knox" > wrote in message
> 2...
> > "NW_PILOT" > wrote in
> > :
> >
> > >> Yes. It's what allows organizations such as AngelFlight to exist.
> > >
> > > Be sure if you want to do that you look at the requirements it can be
> > > real prohibitive. Angel Flight requires 300 hours Total time and 75
> > > hours cross country 25 in make and model or something like that and
> > > they charge you an annual fee to do it. Not sure of other
> > > organizations i have only herd of angel flight. If I was to volunteer
> > > my time and aircraft and the expenses that go along with it no way
> > > would I want to pay an annual fee.
> >
> > That answer is not entirely correct. Angel Flight is made up of six
> > different regional organization, under the unbrella Angel Flight
> > America. Although there is a move to standardize everything as much as
> > possible, each region sets its own specific requirements. Some only
> > require a Private Pilot license, while others want an instrument rating
> > and a minimum number of hours (for example, Angel Flight South Central
> > wants 200 hours PIC, total, and proof of insurance).
> >
> > It's not as arbitrary or random as it may sound. Each region has
> > weather that may be unique - for example, Angel Flight North East has
> > long required an instrument rating, because it is so scuzzy up there so
> > much of the time. Whereas South Central only recently required one, and
> > the minimum 200 hours, and that was almost entirely due to insurance
> > requirements. [Actually, they still don't require an instrument rating
> > - but if you are VFR only then they want you to schedule an IFR backup
> > pilot "just in case." And with our weather, 95% of the time, VFR works
> > just fine.]
> >
> > Check them out. Go to the web site and find your own region. Find out
> > what THEY want. And talk with other Angel Flight pilots. It's a great
> > excuse to fly, and a great feeling to help folks - whether you fly
> > patients or blood runs or whatever you do to help out.
> >
> > James Knox
> > Director
> > Angel Flight South Central
>
>
> I can understand the Flight time requirements and the insurance requirements
> but to pay a mandatory annual fee I do not understand?
>
> As stated on the Angel Flight web site "The cost to join is only $50, and
> the annual dues are $35" I can understand charging non pilots a membership
> fee but pilots that provide a volunteer service should not be charged. I bet
> if they did not charge pilots these fees they would get a lot more pilots
> volunteering.
>
> The way I see angel flight is like having to pay a member ship fee to
> volunteer in a soup kitchen when your providing the soup. A company with
> good intentions.
>
> Remember to be a NPO only 1% of every dollar donated needs to go to the
> organization.

[Peter R.]

NW_PILOT ) wrote:

> Remember to be a NPO only 1% of every dollar donated needs to go
> to the organization.

I can assure you that about 100% of every dollar you donate to
AngelFlight goes to AngelFlight to support its organization.

If you cannot cover the yearly tax-deductable donation of (fill in your
two-digit fee here) to AngelFlight, you sure could not afford the fuel
and time costs of flying the patients.

Fortunately, AF's pilot database contains thousands of pilots who
truly understand what the organization provides to the less fortunate
and a trivial two-digit fee doesn't prevent these pilots from
volunteering.

--
Peter

[Peter MacPherson]

I fly for Angel Flight Northeast and they do not charge a yearly fee.
Even if they did charge $35, I'd still pay it.

Pete


"Steven Barnes" > wrote in message
m...
>I just joined Angel Flight Central. Never was told of or have seen a
> bill/fee. Better not.
>

[Michael]

Blanche > wrote
> >As stated on the Angel Flight web site "The cost to join is only $50, and
> >the annual dues are $35" I can understand charging non pilots a membership
> >fee but pilots that provide a volunteer service should not be charged. I bet
> >if they did not charge pilots these fees they would get a lot more pilots
> >volunteering.
>
> Betcha it wouldn't.

AFSC does not have a fee to join. If they did, I would not have joined.

But hey, no great loss, I've only flown about 40 missions.

Michael

[Rick Durden]

Gary,

As a private pilot you can transport people for medical services, you
just cannot charge for it, nor can you split expenses.

There are a number of public benefit flying organizations for which
you could volunteer to fly, they are primarily for medical transport
or enviornmental/conservation research and support. For the transport
flights, the passengers cannot make any form of payment, and because
you are not flying the trip for a "common purpose" you cannot split
costs.

The FAA is supporting public benefit flying in its interpretations of
regulations, but you have to still have to be careful about compliance
and walk a very fine line and, for transportation flights, you
generally should not get reimbursed for any portion of your costs
because of the prohibition against flight for hire unless you operate
under Part 135. When you and friends go somewhere for lunch or a
vacation, it's a common purpose flight, and you can split the costs.
In general, and very briefly, when you are flying someone for medical
treatment, you are not considered to being making the flight to that
destination for a common purpose and thus you cannot split the costs.
If the passenger pays anything at all, even if it does not cover his
or her share of costs, it is considered compensation (and getting free
flying time where only the airplane costs are covered is considered
compensation in a long line of enforcement cases).

So, check with the Air Care Alliance website (the Air Care Alliance is
the umbrella group for public benefit flying organizations) for
information on public benefit flying organizations and see if there is
one that interests you. The organization can give you more detailed
answers on operations. The important thing is not to think of it as a
way to build flying time cheaply. You are truly donating your time
and airplane costs to help others. The organizations are excellent
(by and large) and perform a great deal of service to the public and
you get to actually do some good with your skills.

All the best,
Rick

"Gary G" > wrote in message >...
> Can a Private Pilot transport people for an organization or for "volunteer" purposes.
> Examples: Red Cross, transporting people for medical services (cancer patients) etc.?
>
> I've wondered about being able to volunteer services for organizations.
>
> Would they be able to "split costs" at all?
> Or is it for transport only?
>
> Thanks!

[Peter R.]

Michael ) wrote:

> AFSC does not have a fee to join. If they did, I would not have joined.

Since you mentioned that you would not have joined had there been a
fee, may I ask why?

Having flown 40 missions, you certainly know of the overhead involved
not only in coordinating missions, but also in administrating the
volunteer pilots (maintaining proof-of-insurance, etc).


--
Peter

[Gary Drescher]

"NW_PILOT" > wrote in message
...
> Remember to be a NPO only 1% of every dollar donated needs to go to the
> organization.

Is that true? Can you cite a source for that claim?

Thanks,
Gary

[Rich Badaracco]

I can't and won't add a lot to what James said here. Angel Flight
Mid-Atlantic as a requirement for an instrument rating and 250 hours PIC
time and 25 hours in type. There is no fee. The office staff is funded from
donations and as a rough rule of thumb for every dollar donated AF generates
3-4 dollars in patient services. And the pilots that volunteer for the
flights get a lot more than that back in personal satisfaction. You can
really make a difference in someone's life by providing this service.
--
Rich Badaracco
Director Angel Flight North Carolina
N1943T

"James M. Knox" > wrote in message
2...
> "NW_PILOT" > wrote in
> :
>
> >> Yes. It's what allows organizations such as AngelFlight to exist.
> >
> > Be sure if you want to do that you look at the requirements it can be
> > real prohibitive. Angel Flight requires 300 hours Total time and 75
> > hours cross country 25 in make and model or something like that and
> > they charge you an annual fee to do it. Not sure of other
> > organizations i have only herd of angel flight. If I was to volunteer
> > my time and aircraft and the expenses that go along with it no way
> > would I want to pay an annual fee.
>
> That answer is not entirely correct. Angel Flight is made up of six
> different regional organization, under the unbrella Angel Flight
> America. Although there is a move to standardize everything as much as
> possible, each region sets its own specific requirements. Some only
> require a Private Pilot license, while others want an instrument rating
> and a minimum number of hours (for example, Angel Flight South Central
> wants 200 hours PIC, total, and proof of insurance).
>
> It's not as arbitrary or random as it may sound. Each region has
> weather that may be unique - for example, Angel Flight North East has
> long required an instrument rating, because it is so scuzzy up there so
> much of the time. Whereas South Central only recently required one, and
> the minimum 200 hours, and that was almost entirely due to insurance
> requirements. [Actually, they still don't require an instrument rating
> - but if you are VFR only then they want you to schedule an IFR backup
> pilot "just in case." And with our weather, 95% of the time, VFR works
> just fine.]
>
> Check them out. Go to the web site and find your own region. Find out
> what THEY want. And talk with other Angel Flight pilots. It's a great
> excuse to fly, and a great feeling to help folks - whether you fly
> patients or blood runs or whatever you do to help out.
>
> James Knox
> Director
> Angel Flight South Central

[Michael]

Peter R. > wrote
> Having flown 40 missions, you certainly know of the overhead involved
> not only in coordinating missions, but also in administrating the
> volunteer pilots (maintaining proof-of-insurance, etc).

First, I resent being told I MUST pay. So do lots of other people.
I'm paying for the entire flight out of my own pocket; to expect me to
also pony up cash is just too much.

Second, I think much of the administration is bull****. In fact, as
far as I'm concerned the ONLY part that is not bull**** is the process
of scheduling missions. Period.

I think that maintaining proof of insurance, procedures manuals,
checkouts, and similar nonsense is - well - nonsense. I think people
who fly for Angel Flight are inherently responsible and will make sure
they're doing it right - the safety record certainly supports that. I
think that liability insurance only makes us a target.

Michael

[Peter R.]

Michael ) wrote:

> First, I resent being told I MUST pay. So do lots of other people.
> I'm paying for the entire flight out of my own pocket; to expect me to
> also pony up cash is just too much.
<snip>

So, having experienced almost fifty flights where you made a
*significant difference* in the quality of life for several patients and
their families, are you saying you would quit tomorrow if a tax-
deductible, mid two-digit yearly fee were imposed?

Hmmm. I agree with you in principle. However, in this case I see the
greater good in what my volunteering means to those less fortunate and
would not be deterred by a fee that sets me back one dinner at a
restaurant (minus the wine) per year.

--
Peter

[Michael]

Peter R. > wrote
> So, having experienced almost fifty flights where you made a
> *significant difference* in the quality of life for several patients and
> their families, are you saying you would quit tomorrow if a tax-
> deductible, mid two-digit yearly fee were imposed?

I might or might not, but I can tell you for sure that had that fee
been there from day one I would never have flown the first mission.
I'm sure there are lots of others like me. People who think that
those who won't pay the fee to join are just cheapskates who won't
contribute much anyway are just kidding themselves. It's costing them
pilots.

The reality is that the vast majority of the expense of operating
Angel Flight is borne by the pilots themselves. Trying to shift more
of the burden onto the pilots with these fees is simply obnoxious in
my opinion, and I don't have to put up with it.

And of course this is not the only option I have for doing things that
make a difference. No matter which way I turn, there are people who
need help, and thus I see no need to patronize obnoxious
administrators to help people.

> Hmmm. I agree with you in principle.

And if Angel Flight is not about principle, what is it about?

Michael

[James M. Knox]

"NW_PILOT" > wrote in
:

> I can understand the Flight time requirements and the insurance
> requirements but to pay a mandatory annual fee I do not understand?
>
> As stated on the Angel Flight web site "The cost to join is only $50,
> and the annual dues are $35" I can understand charging non pilots a
> membership fee but pilots that provide a volunteer service should not
> be charged.

You wouldn't believe the battles that have been fought over that. MOST
of the Angel Flight regions do NOT have a membership fee. I can tell
you at AF South Central we have that fight in the board meetings every
five or six years. It's always been defeated.

There is a cost of having someone as a member... Newsletter mailings,
special event mailings, calls to try to fill that last-minute mission,
calls from a local wing leader inviting them to fly, etc. Plus, when
you sign up, you get "gifts." So the membership dues are as much to
keep the rolls clean of well-meaning pilots who are never going to
actually fly a mission as it is for any attempt to recover money.

It's a little like putting a sign up in your yard that reads "Puppies,
$5" vs. "Free Puppies." The $5 isn't the issue, but somehow if people
pay even a few bucks, they are more serious about it.

Having said that, it is the general belief that the pilots are already
donating huge amounts of their time and money in support of missions and
trying to get them to pay (even just a few bucks) for the privilege is
.... well, just plain tacky. So the dues have NEVER been approved in our
region.
jmk

[James M. Knox]

(Michael) wrote in
om:

> AFSC does not have a fee to join. If they did, I would not have
> joined.
>
> But hey, no great loss, I've only flown about 40 missions.

I assume you meant that last line jokingly... 40 missions is a hell of a
great contribution. That's a lot of people you've helped, and you can be
very proud of it.

We have a few folks (very few) who are really incredible and fly 50 or 60
missions PER YEAR. That's wonderful. And we have a LOT MORE (the vast
majority) who fly a couple of missions a year. Some are students who have
to collect empty pop bottles along the side of the rode for six months in
order to get enough money for a few hours of aircraft rental in order to
fly a mission. Each and every one of those flights help someone, and we
are most grateful and happy to have every one of those pilots.

jmk

[Morgans]

"James M. Knox" > wrote

> There is a cost of having someone as a member... Newsletter mailings,
> special event mailings, calls to try to fill that last-minute mission,
> calls from a local wing leader inviting them to fly, etc. Plus, when
> you sign up, you get "gifts." So the membership dues are as much to
> keep the rolls clean of well-meaning pilots who are never going to
> actually fly a mission as it is for any attempt to recover money.
>
> It's a little like putting a sign up in your yard that reads "Puppies,
> $5" vs. "Free Puppies." The $5 isn't the issue, but somehow if people
> pay even a few bucks, they are more serious about it.
>
> Having said that, it is the general belief that the pilots are already
> donating huge amounts of their time and money in support of missions and
> trying to get them to pay (even just a few bucks) for the privilege is
> ... well, just plain tacky. So the dues have NEVER been approved in our
> region.
> jmk

Seems to me a way to do it might be a $50 fee, which can be applied towards,
or refunded, against the cost of the first flight.
--
Jim in NC


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[James M. Knox]

"Morgans" > wrote in
:


> Seems to me a way to do it might be a $50 fee, which can be applied
> towards, or refunded, against the cost of the first flight.

That was exactly one of the proposals -- that any years dues would be
considered "paid" if the pilot had flown at least one flight the previous
year.

In the end, AF South Central has always just rejected the dues completely.

jmk