C-182 and 5 people

[Chris]

This has been asked quite often, but I still didn't find a satifectory
answer. So what are the legal constrins to pack 5 people in a C-182?
I read one can do that with a fifth seatbelt. What if there are only
four seatbelts and installing a fith is not an option - can a baby sit
on one's lap legally? What's about insurance?

Thanks
Chris

[PJ Hunt]

91.107
(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator--
(3) Except as provided in this paragraph, each person on board a
U.S.-registered civil aircraft (except a free balloon that incorporates a
basket or gondola or an airship type certificated before November 2, 1987)
must occupy an approved seat or berth with a safety belt and, if installed,
shoulder harness, properly secured about him or her during movement on the
surface, takeoff, and landing. Notwithstanding the preceding requirements of
this paragraph, a person may:

(i) Be held by an adult who is occupying an approved seat or berth, provided
that the person being held has not reached his or her second birthday and
does not occupy or use any restraining device;

PJ

============================================
Here's to the duck who swam a lake and never lost a feather,
May sometime another year, we all be back together.
JJW
============================================


"Chris" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> This has been asked quite often, but I still didn't find a satifectory
> answer. So what are the legal constrins to pack 5 people in a C-182?
> I read one can do that with a fifth seatbelt. What if there are only
> four seatbelts and installing a fith is not an option - can a baby sit
> on one's lap legally? What's about insurance?
>
> Thanks
> Chris

[Daniel L. Lieberman]

Chris,

If you really care about the insurance issue ask your insurance company.
They will be making the decision - not someone on Usenet. Many exotic
arguments could be made but if real money is possibly involved why
speculate?

Daniel

"Chris" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> This has been asked quite often, but I still didn't find a satifectory
> answer. So what are the legal constrins to pack 5 people in a C-182?
> I read one can do that with a fifth seatbelt. What if there are only four
> seatbelts and installing a fith is not an option - can a baby sit on one's
> lap legally? What's about insurance?
>
> Thanks
> Chris

[The Weiss Family]

"Chris" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> This has been asked quite often, but I still didn't find a satifectory
> answer. So what are the legal constrins to pack 5 people in a C-182?
> I read one can do that with a fifth seatbelt. What if there are only four
> seatbelts and installing a fith is not an option - can a baby sit on one's
> lap legally? What's about insurance?
>
> Thanks
> Chris

As mentioned, ask your insurance company.
However, as a price point, I am a PP-ASEL, no instrument.
I have less than 100 hrs TT.
Full 1MM liability and $40K hull on my 6-seat (third row is actually a bench
with one belt, though) Beech Super Musketeer is $1100.
I thought that was pretty good considering my low time.

Have you investigated the child seat for C172/C182 that goes in the baggage
area?

Adam
PP-ASEL
N7966L - Beech Super III

[Schmoe]

The Weiss Family wrote:
> snipppage>

> Have you investigated the child seat for C172/C182 that goes in the
> baggage area?


I generally strap kids to the wings near the root. It's cheaper and they
always land cleaner.

[Newps]

Chris wrote:
> This has been asked quite often, but I still didn't find a satifectory
> answer. So what are the legal constrins to pack 5 people in a C-182?

The only legal way is to have the child seat option in the baggage area.


> I read one can do that with a fifth seatbelt.

Yes, but it has to be on the child seat in the baggage area. No legal
way to put three people in the backseat.


What if there are only
> four seatbelts and installing a fith is not an option - can a baby sit
> on one's lap legally?

Yes.


What's about insurance?

Get some.

[Icebound]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Chris wrote:
>> This has been asked quite often, but I still didn't find a satifectory
>> answer. So what are the legal constrins to pack 5 people in a C-182?
>
> The only legal way is to have the child seat option in the baggage area.
>
>
>> I read one can do that with a fifth seatbelt.
>
> Yes, but it has to be on the child seat in the baggage area. No legal way
> to put three people in the backseat.
>

and... the FAA rule says:

Current operating rules in part 91, 121, 125, and 135
require that child restraint systems used on aircraft bear two
labels: "This child restraint system conforms to all
applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards" and
"THIS RESTRAINT IS CERTIFIED FOR USE IN
MOTOR VEHICLES AND AIRCRAFT,"


>
> What if there are only
>> four seatbelts and installing a fith is not an option - can a baby sit on
>> one's lap legally?
>
> Yes.
>
>

....yes if the baby is under 2 years old, which is the FAA's definition of
"infant".

> What's about insurance?
>
> Get some.

[The Weiss Family]

"Schmoe" > wrote in message
. net...
> The Weiss Family wrote:
>> snipppage>
>
>> Have you investigated the child seat for C172/C182 that goes in the
>> baggage area?
>
>
> I generally strap kids to the wings near the root. It's cheaper and they
> always land cleaner.
>

Yeah...and you usually can't hear 'em screaming out there either.

[Peter Duniho]

"Schmoe" > wrote in message
. net...
> I generally strap kids to the wings near the root. It's cheaper and they
> always land cleaner.

Can you skip the week's bath if you soap them up and fly through some rain?

[Dale]

In article >,
Newps > wrote:


>
> The only legal way is to have the child seat option in the baggage area.

Or have the airplane configured/STC'd for skydiving ops.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Newps]

Dale wrote:
> In article >,
> Newps > wrote:
>
>
>
>>The only legal way is to have the child seat option in the baggage area.
>
>
> Or have the airplane configured/STC'd for skydiving ops.

And have no seats. Not what he was looking for.

[Anthony Quick]

Chris, there is good article by AOPA Legal Counsel John Yodice in the
October Pilot.

I hope it is legal...I've had 5 in a C172 (1 less than 2yo...)

AQ

"Chris" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> This has been asked quite often, but I still didn't find a satifectory
> answer. So what are the legal constrins to pack 5 people in a C-182?
> I read one can do that with a fifth seatbelt. What if there are only four
> seatbelts and installing a fith is not an option - can a baby sit on one's
> lap legally? What's about insurance?
>
> Thanks
> Chris

[Newps]

Anthony Quick wrote:
> Chris, there is good article by AOPA Legal Counsel John Yodice in the
> October Pilot.
>
> I hope it is legal...I've had 5 in a C172 (1 less than 2yo...)

That's legal. Not safe, but legal.

[john smith]

I do like the door hinged at the top better than the side.

Dale wrote:
> Or have the airplane configured/STC'd for skydiving ops.