Anyone here fly Convair 440 Metropolitans?

[Jay Honeck]

I've received word from an old United pilot that they used to fly the
Metropolitans into Iowa City until 1959 or so. Anyone here ever flown one?

Can anyone comment on how much runway this plane would have needed?

Also, anyone here ever fly for Ozark? They took over service into IOW from
United in '59, and flew into Iowa City until '72. I'm wondering what kind
of planes they flew into smaller airports like ours?

Thanks in advance!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Kyle Boatright]

I know of one (not sure if it was a 240, 340, or 440, but the aircraft are
very similar) that was flown with some frequency from a 3500' grass strip
with honest to gosh 50' obstacles at each end. The field was narrow too. At
its tightest point, maybe 20' wider than the Convair's wingspan. Not for
the faint of heart.

KB

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:BJUmd.419737$D%.332315@attbi_s51...
> I've received word from an old United pilot that they used to fly the
> Metropolitans into Iowa City until 1959 or so. Anyone here ever flown
> one?
>
> Can anyone comment on how much runway this plane would have needed?
>
> Also, anyone here ever fly for Ozark? They took over service into IOW
> from United in '59, and flew into Iowa City until '72. I'm wondering what
> kind of planes they flew into smaller airports like ours?
>
> Thanks in advance!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Jay Honeck]

>I know of one (not sure if it was a 240, 340, or 440, but the aircraft are
>very similar) that was flown with some frequency from a 3500' grass strip
>with honest to gosh 50' obstacles at each end. The field was narrow too.
>At its tightest point, maybe 20' wider than the Convair's wingspan. Not
>for the faint of heart.

That's about how long the north/south runway was here -- maybe a bit
longer -- but with a hospital off the departure end a the TOP OF A HILL.

The old fella who emailed me said they had to have maximum performance,
because the airport is in a bowl, yet they had to also be worried about
noise abatement because of the hospital!

I can't imagine flying airliner off of our current Rwy 36 (which has been
shortened with a displaced threshold, but you can still "use" the remaining
portion in a pinch) -- yet they did it every day, several times a day,
apparently without mishap, for 40 years.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Gig Giacona]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:BJUmd.419737$D%.332315@attbi_s51...
> I've received word from an old United pilot that they used to fly the
> Metropolitans into Iowa City until 1959 or so. Anyone here ever flown
> one?
>
> Can anyone comment on how much runway this plane would have needed?
>
> Also, anyone here ever fly for Ozark? They took over service into IOW
> from United in '59, and flew into Iowa City until '72. I'm wondering what
> kind of planes they flew into smaller airports like ours?
>
> Thanks in advance!
> --

Jay, Try this site... http://www.ozarkairlines.com/

GigG

[Rick Durden]

Jay,

Convairs could and did use IOW on a regular basis, field is plenty
long for them. Most all have been converted to the 580 (turboprop).

Ozark ran DC-3s pretty heavily, then the Fokker/FH-227 turboprop and
DC-9s. All would fit at IOW, although I don't recall whether they
ever ran the DC-9s in there. For some reason I seem to recall that
various college teams came into IOW in DC-9s but I'm not sure. Friend
of mine who is a United captain now went to college at Iowa and flew
out of IOW at the time. I'll ask him what he recalls coming into the
airport.

Warmest regards,
Rick

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:<BJUmd.419737$D%.332315@attbi_s51>...
> I've received word from an old United pilot that they used to fly the
> Metropolitans into Iowa City until 1959 or so. Anyone here ever flown one?
>
> Can anyone comment on how much runway this plane would have needed?
>
> Also, anyone here ever fly for Ozark? They took over service into IOW from
> United in '59, and flew into Iowa City until '72. I'm wondering what kind
> of planes they flew into smaller airports like ours?
>
> Thanks in advance!

[Newps]

Rick Durden wrote:

> Jay,
>
> Convairs could and did use IOW on a regular basis, field is plenty
> long for them. Most all have been converted to the 580 (turboprop).
>
> Ozark ran DC-3s pretty heavily, then the Fokker/FH-227 turboprop and
> DC-9s. All would fit at IOW, although I don't recall whether they
> ever ran the DC-9s in there. For some reason I seem to recall that
> various college teams came into IOW in DC-9s but I'm not sure. Friend
> of mine who is a United captain now went to college at Iowa and flew
> out of IOW at the time. I'll ask him what he recalls coming into the
> airport.

I remember a 15 minute show every Sunday morning in the Twin Cities that
we watched before going to church, probably earl 70's. It was some type
of flying show made by North Central Airways, basically a 15 minute
advertisement for the airline. Lots of flying scenes with whatever
airplanes they were using in those days. Anybody else remember that show?

[Jay Honeck]

> Jay, Try this site... http://www.ozarkairlines.com/

Thanks, Gig -- great site with lots of information.

What a great era that was -- imagine, catching an airliner at a handy
airport, and being provided with great customer service!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> > Jay, Try this site... http://www.ozarkairlines.com/
>
> Thanks, Gig -- great site with lots of information.
>
> What a great era that was -- imagine, catching an airliner at a handy
> airport, and being provided with great customer service!

And paying a fortune for the ticket.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

[kage]

My father, William, was a famous photographer and had a huge job at the
Stanford Medical School in the 1950's.

http://tinyurl.com/6vgpo

He had to travel from Portland Oregon to Stanford twice a month for seven
years.

United Airlines knew him well. The normal airplane on that route was a
Convair of some sort. I can remember one time we took him out to PDX, but he
was late for the flight. It was already taxiing out to the runway. United
operations called the flight and the Convair turned around and came back to
the terminal to pick him up.

He also once talked the crew into flying low over our house on the ridge in
Sylvan. We were prepared, and had a bed sheet that we waived to the flight
on it's way to California.

Times HAVE changed!

Karl


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:u38nd.50065$V41.15106@attbi_s52...
>> Jay, Try this site... http://www.ozarkairlines.com/
>
> Thanks, Gig -- great site with lots of information.
>
> What a great era that was -- imagine, catching an airliner at a handy
> airport, and being provided with great customer service!
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[flyboy]

You're thinking of the World of Aviation, hosted by Sherm Booen. See
http://www.pavekmuseum.org/Booen.htm for a bit of his story.

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Rick Durden wrote:
>
>> Jay,
>>
>> Convairs could and did use IOW on a regular basis, field is plenty
>> long for them. Most all have been converted to the 580 (turboprop).
>>
>> Ozark ran DC-3s pretty heavily, then the Fokker/FH-227 turboprop and
>> DC-9s. All would fit at IOW, although I don't recall whether they
>> ever ran the DC-9s in there. For some reason I seem to recall that
>> various college teams came into IOW in DC-9s but I'm not sure. Friend
>> of mine who is a United captain now went to college at Iowa and flew
>> out of IOW at the time. I'll ask him what he recalls coming into the
>> airport.
>
> I remember a 15 minute show every Sunday morning in the Twin Cities that
> we watched before going to church, probably earl 70's. It was some type
> of flying show made by North Central Airways, basically a 15 minute
> advertisement for the airline. Lots of flying scenes with whatever
> airplanes they were using in those days. Anybody else remember that show?
>
>
>
>

[Jay Honeck]

>> What a great era that was -- imagine, catching an airliner at a handy
>> airport, and being provided with great customer service!
>
> And paying a fortune for the ticket.

True, you didn't have the "super-saver" ticket options. But you DID have
many more options, for a price.

Nowadays, you can't have that -- for ANY price. The service just doesn't
exist.

(Unless you charter, of course, which is still unaffordable for most.)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> My father, William, was a famous photographer and had a huge job at the
> Stanford Medical School in the 1950's.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6vgpo

Your Dad invented the VIEWMASTER????

That is so cool! That was my favorite toy growing up! (And, I imagine, a
few million others just like me...) We all owe your family a debt of
gratitude.

What did he do at Stanford?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> You're thinking of the World of Aviation, hosted by Sherm Booen. See
> http://www.pavekmuseum.org/Booen.htm for a bit of his story.

That broadcasting museum looks like it would be fascinating. Have you been
there?

Is it worth the flight up to Minneapolis?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[kage]

Dr. Bassett dissected human bodies and my father took 3-D photos of same.
They always smoked cigars while doing the work.

These photos have been digitized and are used in medical schools today.

http://tinyurl.com/667ns

Best,
Karl

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:8ndnd.425443$D%.89970@attbi_s51...
>> My father, William, was a famous photographer and had a huge job at the
>> Stanford Medical School in the 1950's.
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/6vgpo
>
> Your Dad invented the VIEWMASTER????
>
> That is so cool! That was my favorite toy growing up! (And, I imagine, a
> few million others just like me...) We all owe your family a debt of
> gratitude.
>
> What did he do at Stanford?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Jay Honeck]

> They always smoked cigars while doing the work.

Yeah, my father-in-law was the head of a medical laboratory in Racine, WI.
Everyone in the lab smoked cigarettes while working.

Times have changed in many ways!

> These photos have been digitized and are used in medical schools today.

Very neat. What a terrific legacy.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[kage]

On Oct 3, 1965 I took him for a ride around Mt. Hood in a Cessna 150. It was
his first and last ride with me. By Oct. 15th he was dead. In about 1985 we
were cleaning out my mothers basement and I came across a stereo camera. It
still had undeveloped film in it from that mountain flight.

Enjoy it while you can. Time accelerates.

Best,
Karl
"Curator" N185KG


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:nzdnd.115808$R05.26539@attbi_s53...
>> They always smoked cigars while doing the work.
>
> Yeah, my father-in-law was the head of a medical laboratory in Racine, WI.
> Everyone in the lab smoked cigarettes while working.
>
> Times have changed in many ways!
>
>> These photos have been digitized and are used in medical schools today.
>
> Very neat. What a terrific legacy.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Jay Honeck]

> Enjoy it while you can. Time accelerates.

Boy, ain't that the truth? It seems like my parents just passed away, yet
it's been 11 years for my dad, and over 5 years for my mom.

Time doesn't march on -- it sprints!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Rick Durden]

Jay,

Spoke with my friend. He said airline service had left IOW by the
time he went there to college. He didn't recall seeing any DC-9s and
indicated that the runway would be tight for them if loaded at all.

Warmest regards,
Rick

[Rick Durden]

George,


>
> And paying a fortune for the ticket.
>
No kidding.

While the quality of service with U.S. airlines has plummeted with
ticket prices, and I'm not a particular fan of the effects of
deregulation, the good old days weren't always so good. Few airlines
to choose from as each airline had to get permission for its routes.
In the midwest east/west travel was okay, but you were a prisoner of
Braniff if you wanted to go north or south. It had one of the best
flight departments and worst customer service around, it gave Pan Am a
run for its money in sheer rudeness and indifference to customers.
Nowadays you run into the ocassional rude airline employee or folks
who are just frustrated at working hard and still having to take pay
cuts, but I've never run across the almost institutional nastiness
that was Braniff in the midwest when they faced no competition at all.

All the best,
Rick

[Frank]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> I've received word from an old United pilot that they used to fly the
> Metropolitans into Iowa City until 1959 or so. Anyone here ever flown
> one?
>
> Can anyone comment on how much runway this plane would have needed?
>
> Also, anyone here ever fly for Ozark? They took over service into IOW
> from
> United in '59, and flew into Iowa City until '72. I'm wondering what kind
> of planes they flew into smaller airports like ours?
>
> Thanks in advance!

Ozark airlines. Now there's a name I haven't heard for a while.

I never flew with them but my father traveled a lot back then and I can
remember many times it was on Ozark. I used to love to go to the airport
for the pick ups and drop offs. Probably contributed to my developing the
aviation 'itch'.

He probably went to Iowa City once in a while. Unfortunately he is no longer
here to ask.

Thanks for bringing back some long ago memories.


--
Frank....H

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> Nowadays, you can't have that -- for ANY price. The service just doesn't
> exist.

The service only existed at that time because the government forced airlines to
provide service on some legs at a loss in order to obtain the rights to the more
profitable portions of a route. The service doesn't exist now because nobody can
break even, much less make a profit on those legs.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

[Jay Honeck]

> The service only existed at that time because the government forced
> airlines to
> provide service on some legs at a loss in order to obtain the rights to
> the more
> profitable portions of a route. The service doesn't exist now because
> nobody can
> break even, much less make a profit on those legs.

Actually, a little-known reason for the loss of airline service to
medium-sized cities (like Iowa City) was the drive to make the Post Office
more efficient.

One main reason Ozark was able to provide passenger service into Iowa City
was the rather lucrative air mail contract. The Post Office subsidized air
mail into Iowa City from 1924 until 1972, when they built a big mail
processing facility in Cedar Rapids, 30 miles to our north..

As soon as the Post Office consolidated mail processing in Cedar Rapids, in
1972 -- *poof* -- the air mail contracts -- and Ozark -- were GONE.

The same thing happened to dozens of otherwise unprofitable Midwestern
airports.

The whole thing is a damned shame -- although the fact that airline service
is so terrible now is really a potential opportunity for general aviation to
grow.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[G.R. Patterson III]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> One main reason Ozark was able to provide passenger service into Iowa City
> was the rather lucrative air mail contract.

And the mail contracts were originally intended to subsidize growth of the air
transport system. Once the airlines were big enough, they were supposed to be
"weaned" of this sort of subsidy, and, in fact, that's what Congress did.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.