SBD Makes Deadstick Landing

[Orval Fairbairn]

This past Saturday, I had the privilege of flying in a massed Veterans'
Day formation at DeLand, FL. I was leading White Flight, consisting of
my Johnson Rocket, a Comanche and a Bonanza.

We had arranged to form up over Bob Lee Airport with Red Flight,
consisting of an SX-300, a T-34 and and SBD Dauntless from Atlanta. The
formation assembly and flyby went well, with about 18 total planes, in
five flights. Apparently both people on the ground liked the flyby.

The Dauntless went to New Smyrna Beach for the night and made a flyby at
Spruce Creek Sunday, on his way back to Atlanta. After the flyby, he
climbed through broken clouds ot 12,500 and blew a jug about 20 miles
out and turned around toward DeLand. After breaking out the bottom, he
was lined up about 5 miles out and 1200 feet, when the engine siezed,
right over Bob Lee.

The pilot, due to our having used Bob Lee as a waypoint, knew right
where he was and deadsticked the SBD in there. Bob Lee is about 2500
feet of rough grass, with poor approaches, so that was a nice job of
piloting! The plane (and pilot) were undamaged, but the R-1820 is trash!

[W. D. Allen Sr.]

What's around Atlanta the requires a flight level of 12,500 ft.?

WDA

end

"Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in message
...
> This past Saturday, I had the privilege of flying in a massed Veterans'
> Day formation at DeLand, FL. I was leading White Flight, consisting of
> my Johnson Rocket, a Comanche and a Bonanza.
>
> We had arranged to form up over Bob Lee Airport with Red Flight,
> consisting of an SX-300, a T-34 and and SBD Dauntless from Atlanta. The
> formation assembly and flyby went well, with about 18 total planes, in
> five flights. Apparently both people on the ground liked the flyby.
>
> The Dauntless went to New Smyrna Beach for the night and made a flyby at
> Spruce Creek Sunday, on his way back to Atlanta. After the flyby, he
> climbed through broken clouds ot 12,500 and blew a jug about 20 miles
> out and turned around toward DeLand. After breaking out the bottom, he
> was lined up about 5 miles out and 1200 feet, when the engine siezed,
> right over Bob Lee.
>
> The pilot, due to our having used Bob Lee as a waypoint, knew right
> where he was and deadsticked the SBD in there. Bob Lee is about 2500
> feet of rough grass, with poor approaches, so that was a nice job of
> piloting! The plane (and pilot) were undamaged, but the R-1820 is trash!

[Rich S.]

"W. D. Allen Sr." > wrote in message
...
> What's around Atlanta the requires a flight level of 12,500 ft.?

1. A headwind
2. Vultures (or are they just in Florida?)
3. Haze
4. All of the above?

Rich S.

[Nathan Young]

1. The ATL Class B
2. Sounded like he was trying to get on top of the clouds with tops
approaching 12.5.

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:37:18 -0800, "W. D. Allen Sr."
> wrote:

>What's around Atlanta the requires a flight level of 12,500 ft.?
>
>WDA
>
>end

[D. Reid]

I'll tell you what guy's...you "Foot" the fuel bill for a P&W radial for a
while and I guarantee, you'll want to fly as high as you can too !!!

Glad to hear he got her down safe and sound. The ole' Douglas "Dauntless" is
one of the "Grand ole' Dames" of WW II. Easy to fly...very forgiving for a
plane her size...but could have used a little more power. More power might
have brought a few more of them back from the war.
Actually, I didnt know there WAS an SBD ("Slow But Deadly") flying anywhere
today. Sure glad to hear it and hope I get a chance to give the ole' gal a
loving "pat" on the nose at Lakeland SnF one year.


"Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in message
...
> This past Saturday, I had the privilege of flying in a massed Veterans'
> Day formation at DeLand, FL. I was leading White Flight, consisting of
> my Johnson Rocket, a Comanche and a Bonanza.
>
> We had arranged to form up over Bob Lee Airport with Red Flight,
> consisting of an SX-300, a T-34 and and SBD Dauntless from Atlanta. The
> formation assembly and flyby went well, with about 18 total planes, in
> five flights. Apparently both people on the ground liked the flyby.
>
> The Dauntless went to New Smyrna Beach for the night and made a flyby at
> Spruce Creek Sunday, on his way back to Atlanta. After the flyby, he
> climbed through broken clouds ot 12,500 and blew a jug about 20 miles
> out and turned around toward DeLand. After breaking out the bottom, he
> was lined up about 5 miles out and 1200 feet, when the engine siezed,
> right over Bob Lee.
>
> The pilot, due to our having used Bob Lee as a waypoint, knew right
> where he was and deadsticked the SBD in there. Bob Lee is about 2500
> feet of rough grass, with poor approaches, so that was a nice job of
> piloting! The plane (and pilot) were undamaged, but the R-1820 is trash!

[Dan Nafe]

In article >,
"W. D. Allen Sr." > wrote:

> What's around Atlanta the requires a flight level of 12,500 ft.?

Their precious class b airspace. Those controllers are real dicks about
vfr south to north transitions

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
"D. Reid" > wrote:

> I'll tell you what guy's...you "Foot" the fuel bill for a P&W radial for a
> while and I guarantee, you'll want to fly as high as you can too !!!
>
> Glad to hear he got her down safe and sound. The ole' Douglas "Dauntless" is
> one of the "Grand ole' Dames" of WW II. Easy to fly...very forgiving for a
> plane her size...but could have used a little more power. More power might
> have brought a few more of them back from the war.
> Actually, I didnt know there WAS an SBD ("Slow But Deadly") flying anywhere
> today. Sure glad to hear it and hope I get a chance to give the ole' gal a
> loving "pat" on the nose at Lakeland SnF one year.


The Dauntless had a Wright R-1820. Some friends and I went over and
looked at her today. Oil from nose to tail! You could certainly find the
bad jug -- All of the cooling fins were askew -- no longer parallel to
each other! We saw no other signs of obvious distress -- no holes in the
case -- just oil EVERYWHERE!

I understand that the CAF is going to truck her back to Atlanta for the
engine change. I figured about 55 gallons of Varsol and an 1820 in a
can, but conditions are primitive, at best, at Bob Lee.

I did feel some of the wake turbulence behind the SBD Saturday, although
I tried to keep my flight away from the lead formations' wakes.

BTW, I stand corrected: #3 in the lead formation was a Glasair III,
piloted by a lady here at Spruce Creek, not a T-34. The SBD was in #2
position.

> "Orval Fairbairn" > wrote in message
> ...
> > This past Saturday, I had the privilege of flying in a massed Veterans'
> > Day formation at DeLand, FL. I was leading White Flight, consisting of
> > my Johnson Rocket, a Comanche and a Bonanza.
> >
> > We had arranged to form up over Bob Lee Airport with Red Flight,
> > consisting of an SX-300, a T-34 and and SBD Dauntless from Atlanta. The
> > formation assembly and flyby went well, with about 18 total planes, in
> > five flights. Apparently both people on the ground liked the flyby.
> >
> > The Dauntless went to New Smyrna Beach for the night and made a flyby at
> > Spruce Creek Sunday, on his way back to Atlanta. After the flyby, he
> > climbed through broken clouds ot 12,500 and blew a jug about 20 miles
> > out and turned around toward DeLand. After breaking out the bottom, he
> > was lined up about 5 miles out and 1200 feet, when the engine siezed,
> > right over Bob Lee.
> >
> > The pilot, due to our having used Bob Lee as a waypoint, knew right
> > where he was and deadsticked the SBD in there. Bob Lee is about 2500
> > feet of rough grass, with poor approaches, so that was a nice job of
> > piloting! The plane (and pilot) were undamaged, but the R-1820 is trash!

[Chip Jones]

"Dan Nafe" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "W. D. Allen Sr." > wrote:
>
> > What's around Atlanta the requires a flight level of 12,500 ft.?
>
> Their precious class b airspace. Those controllers are real dicks about
> vfr south to north transitions

You fly around Atlanta alot, do ya? I find the pilots there to be real
dicks about near-midairs...

Chip, ZTL

[Dan Nafe]

In article et>,
"Chip Jones" > wrote:

> "Dan Nafe" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "W. D. Allen Sr." > wrote:
> >
> > > What's around Atlanta the requires a flight level of 12,500 ft.?
> >
> > Their precious class b airspace. Those controllers are real dicks about
> > vfr south to north transitions
>
> You fly around Atlanta alot, do ya? I find the pilots there to be real
> dicks about near-midairs...
>
> Chip, ZTL
>
>
>

Heh, heh, heh, all of my really close "near-midairs" have been while I
and the other aircraft were on IFR flight plans. Yikes!

I still don't get the Atlanta situation. Departing for Florida out of
PDK is no problem, they clear you into the class b, then vector you over
the top of Hartsfield at 5,000. No problems.

Coming into PDK from Florida is a huge problem, they say "remain clear
of the class b". This puts you scudding under the approach or departure
paths of the heavys going around the east end of Hartsfield. Why not let
vfr traffic go over the top of hartsfield at 6,000?

[Chip Jones]

"Dan Nafe" > wrote in message
...
> In article et>,
> "Chip Jones" > wrote:
>
> > "Dan Nafe" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > In article >,
> > > "W. D. Allen Sr." > wrote:
> > >
> > > > What's around Atlanta the requires a flight level of 12,500 ft.?
> > >
> > > Their precious class b airspace. Those controllers are real dicks
about
> > > vfr south to north transitions
> >
> > You fly around Atlanta alot, do ya? I find the pilots there to be real
> > dicks about near-midairs...
> >
> > Chip, ZTL
> >
> >
> >
>
> Heh, heh, heh, all of my really close "near-midairs" have been while I
> and the other aircraft were on IFR flight plans. Yikes!

Yikes! Well, I'd be a dick about those too.

>
> I still don't get the Atlanta situation. Departing for Florida out of
> PDK is no problem, they clear you into the class b, then vector you over
> the top of Hartsfield at 5,000. No problems.
>
> Coming into PDK from Florida is a huge problem, they say "remain clear
> of the class b". This puts you scudding under the approach or departure
> paths of the heavys going around the east end of Hartsfield. Why not let
> vfr traffic go over the top of hartsfield at 6,000?

Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't. Depends on traffic and controller
workload.

When there is moderate or greater traffic in the terminal area (which for
Atlanta is to say, usually), it is easier on the satellite controller to
keep you scudding VFR own nav under the arrival/departure paths of the big
guys going in or out of ATL. Nothing dangerous about that, right? "Remain
clear of the Class B" keeps the controller from having to provide Class B
services to you in the face of the IFR and other VFR's he has put over ATL
at 5000. In effect, if he's running PDK south departures out over the ATL
vortac, why would he want to run north bound PDK arrivals over the same fix
at a higher atltitude, knowing that you will have to descend crossing ATL
right in the face of guys climbing the other way in order to get down into
PDK? Also, he has to consider the ATL departures on the north runways that
are making turns downwind as they climb for departure gates on the opposite
end of the terminal area. Say the air carrier guys departing to the west,
making a climbing right turn to the east and climbing to ten thousand as
they boresite the east departure gates at EAONE and EATWO. They can top the
southbound guys at 5000 over ATL. They can probably top traffic over ATL at
6000 too. But they may not be able to top 7000 over ATL, especially if we
throw some clouds in the mix to shake up the VFR traffic picture. Plus,
this poor satellite sector SOB is running traffic in and out of FTY, PDK,
RYY, MGE, LZU, 47A and all of the smaller fields. He's got traffic zipping
all over the place when its rolling. "Remain clear of the class B"
(horrible phraseology IMO) saves him a lot of heartburn and provides for the
greater (and safer) good to the most users.

Chip, ZTL

[Dan Nafe]

In article et>,
"Chip Jones" > wrote:

> "Dan Nafe" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article et>,
> > "Chip Jones" > wrote:
> >
> > > "Dan Nafe" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > In article >,
> > > > "W. D. Allen Sr." > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > What's around Atlanta the requires a flight level of 12,500 ft.?
> > > >
> > > > Their precious class b airspace. Those controllers are real dicks
> about
> > > > vfr south to north transitions
> > >
> > > You fly around Atlanta alot, do ya? I find the pilots there to be real
> > > dicks about near-midairs...
> > >
> > > Chip, ZTL
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Heh, heh, heh, all of my really close "near-midairs" have been while I
> > and the other aircraft were on IFR flight plans. Yikes!
>
> Yikes! Well, I'd be a dick about those too.
>
> >
> > I still don't get the Atlanta situation. Departing for Florida out of
> > PDK is no problem, they clear you into the class b, then vector you over
> > the top of Hartsfield at 5,000. No problems.
> >
> > Coming into PDK from Florida is a huge problem, they say "remain clear
> > of the class b". This puts you scudding under the approach or departure
> > paths of the heavys going around the east end of Hartsfield. Why not let
> > vfr traffic go over the top of hartsfield at 6,000?
>
> Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't. Depends on traffic and controller
> workload.
>
> When there is moderate or greater traffic in the terminal area (which for
> Atlanta is to say, usually), it is easier on the satellite controller to
> keep you scudding VFR own nav under the arrival/departure paths of the big
> guys going in or out of ATL. Nothing dangerous about that, right? "Remain
> clear of the Class B" keeps the controller from having to provide Class B
> services to you in the face of the IFR and other VFR's he has put over ATL
> at 5000. In effect, if he's running PDK south departures out over the ATL
> vortac, why would he want to run north bound PDK arrivals over the same fix
> at a higher atltitude, knowing that you will have to descend crossing ATL
> right in the face of guys climbing the other way in order to get down into
> PDK? Also, he has to consider the ATL departures on the north runways that
> are making turns downwind as they climb for departure gates on the opposite
> end of the terminal area. Say the air carrier guys departing to the west,
> making a climbing right turn to the east and climbing to ten thousand as
> they boresite the east departure gates at EAONE and EATWO. They can top the
> southbound guys at 5000 over ATL. They can probably top traffic over ATL at
> 6000 too. But they may not be able to top 7000 over ATL, especially if we
> throw some clouds in the mix to shake up the VFR traffic picture. Plus,
> this poor satellite sector SOB is running traffic in and out of FTY, PDK,
> RYY, MGE, LZU, 47A and all of the smaller fields. He's got traffic zipping
> all over the place when its rolling. "Remain clear of the class B"
> (horrible phraseology IMO) saves him a lot of heartburn and provides for the
> greater (and safer) good to the most users.
>
> Chip, ZTL
>
>

To make a long story endless, I wind up getting the weather for Atlanta
from FSS when crossing into Georgian airspace, then filing IFR with Jax
Center before leaving their airspace, even when it is severe clear. This
has the unintended consiquence of INCREASING the controller's workload!

Just venting!

[Chip Jones]

"Dan Nafe" > wrote in message
...
> In article et>,
> "Chip Jones" > wrote:
>
> > "Dan Nafe" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > In article et>,
> > > "Chip Jones" > wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Dan Nafe" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > In article >,
> > > > > "W. D. Allen Sr." > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > What's around Atlanta the requires a flight level of 12,500 ft.?
> > > > >
> > > > > Their precious class b airspace. Those controllers are real dicks
> > about
> > > > > vfr south to north transitions
> > > >
> > > > You fly around Atlanta alot, do ya? I find the pilots there to be
real
> > > > dicks about near-midairs...
> > > >
> > > > Chip, ZTL
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Heh, heh, heh, all of my really close "near-midairs" have been while I
> > > and the other aircraft were on IFR flight plans. Yikes!
> >
> > Yikes! Well, I'd be a dick about those too.
> >
> > >
> > > I still don't get the Atlanta situation. Departing for Florida out of
> > > PDK is no problem, they clear you into the class b, then vector you
over
> > > the top of Hartsfield at 5,000. No problems.
> > >
> > > Coming into PDK from Florida is a huge problem, they say "remain clear
> > > of the class b". This puts you scudding under the approach or
departure
> > > paths of the heavys going around the east end of Hartsfield. Why not
let
> > > vfr traffic go over the top of hartsfield at 6,000?
> >
> > Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't. Depends on traffic and
controller
> > workload.
> >
> > When there is moderate or greater traffic in the terminal area (which
for
> > Atlanta is to say, usually), it is easier on the satellite controller to
> > keep you scudding VFR own nav under the arrival/departure paths of the
big
> > guys going in or out of ATL. Nothing dangerous about that, right?
"Remain
> > clear of the Class B" keeps the controller from having to provide Class
B
> > services to you in the face of the IFR and other VFR's he has put over
ATL
> > at 5000. In effect, if he's running PDK south departures out over the
ATL
> > vortac, why would he want to run north bound PDK arrivals over the same
fix
> > at a higher atltitude, knowing that you will have to descend crossing
ATL
> > right in the face of guys climbing the other way in order to get down
into
> > PDK? Also, he has to consider the ATL departures on the north runways
that
> > are making turns downwind as they climb for departure gates on the
opposite
> > end of the terminal area. Say the air carrier guys departing to the
west,
> > making a climbing right turn to the east and climbing to ten thousand as
> > they boresite the east departure gates at EAONE and EATWO. They can top
the
> > southbound guys at 5000 over ATL. They can probably top traffic over
ATL at
> > 6000 too. But they may not be able to top 7000 over ATL, especially if
we
> > throw some clouds in the mix to shake up the VFR traffic picture.
Plus,
> > this poor satellite sector SOB is running traffic in and out of FTY,
PDK,
> > RYY, MGE, LZU, 47A and all of the smaller fields. He's got traffic
zipping
> > all over the place when its rolling. "Remain clear of the class B"
> > (horrible phraseology IMO) saves him a lot of heartburn and provides for
the
> > greater (and safer) good to the most users.
> >
> > Chip, ZTL
> >
> >
>
> To make a long story endless, I wind up getting the weather for Atlanta
> from FSS when crossing into Georgian airspace, then filing IFR with Jax
> Center before leaving their airspace, even when it is severe clear. This
> has the unintended consiquence of INCREASING the controller's workload!
>
> Just venting!

Dontcha love the government, hehehe... Perfect FAA paradox.


Chip, ZTL