The perfect approach

[Capt.Doug]

It was a beautiful day in land that Mickey built- 76 degrees with full sun
while the northern folks got their first freezing blast of winter. We headed
off-shore over the islands of the Caribbean. I was on the second radio
talking to old friends and catching up on news from all the islands that I
don't get to visit much anymore. Caught up with some old friends on the
air-to-air frequencies as well. The flight levels were smooth and the
visibilty was excellent.

Then it came time for top of descent. This time was going to be sweet. There
was no complicated arrival procedure and there was no traffic in front of
us. We were number one. The center controller cleared us to decend from
FL330 to 11,000' at pilot's discretion.

One of the keys to good fuel economy in a jet is to stay high as long as you
can and then descend at idle thrust. I looked at our weight, and tailwind.
As I slowly pulled the throttles back to idle, the nose slowly dropped to
maintain airspeed. I switched from Mach airspeed to indicated airspeed
around FL240. I monitored the DME's ratio to the altimeter. It was holding
constant. I leveled off at 11,000' and let the airspeed bleed off to 250
KIAS. We switched to the approach controller who cleared us down to 3000'
and direct to the outer marker. The power was still at idle, the speedbreaks
were still stowed, and the approach was looking good.

I called the field in sight from 20 miles out and was cleared for the
visual. I pulled the nose up slightly to bleed the speed down to 200 KIAS
for the airport traffic area. At 1500' the slats and flaps were extended.
Then the gear and the rest of the flaps. The old-timers taught me to carry
an extra 20 knots into the flare when doing an idle-thrust landing. That
prevents you from developing an excessive sink-rate which prevents the gear
from going through the wing.

I bled off the extra airspeed and more in the flare. The touchdown was
sweet. There was just a hint of a bunny-hop before the ground-spoilers
popped, but the runway is so bumpy that the passengers probably didn't
notice. Without moving the throttles from idle, I popped the reversers and
let it roll to the end of the runway. We rolled onto the taxiway without
using the brakes. It was a perfect idle-thrust approach from top-of-descent
to the gate.

I spent the rest of the day sitting with my crew at a bar on the beach
enjoying the little things in life. Over the bar was a television. The folks
on the television were surrounded by snow. I bet their day wasn't near as
perfect as mine.

D.

[Jay Beckman]

"Capt.Doug" > wrote in message
...
> It was a beautiful day in land that Mickey built- 76 degrees with full sun
> while the northern folks got their first freezing blast of winter.

I assume since you refer to the "northern folks" that you are referring to
the "Land that Mickey built - SOUTH" as opposed to the "Land that Mickey
built - WEST?"

Jay

[Franklin Newton]

Well done Capt Doug.
"Capt.Doug" > wrote in message
...
> It was a beautiful day in land that Mickey built- 76 degrees with full sun
> while the northern folks got their first freezing blast of winter. We
headed
> off-shore over the islands of the Caribbean. I was on the second radio
> talking to old friends and catching up on news from all the islands that I
> don't get to visit much anymore. Caught up with some old friends on the
> air-to-air frequencies as well. The flight levels were smooth and the
> visibilty was excellent.
>
> Then it came time for top of descent. This time was going to be sweet.
There
> was no complicated arrival procedure and there was no traffic in front of
> us. We were number one. The center controller cleared us to decend from
> FL330 to 11,000' at pilot's discretion.
>
> One of the keys to good fuel economy in a jet is to stay high as long as
you
> can and then descend at idle thrust. I looked at our weight, and tailwind.
> As I slowly pulled the throttles back to idle, the nose slowly dropped to
> maintain airspeed. I switched from Mach airspeed to indicated airspeed
> around FL240. I monitored the DME's ratio to the altimeter. It was holding
> constant. I leveled off at 11,000' and let the airspeed bleed off to 250
> KIAS. We switched to the approach controller who cleared us down to 3000'
> and direct to the outer marker. The power was still at idle, the
speedbreaks
> were still stowed, and the approach was looking good.
>
> I called the field in sight from 20 miles out and was cleared for the
> visual. I pulled the nose up slightly to bleed the speed down to 200 KIAS
> for the airport traffic area. At 1500' the slats and flaps were extended.
> Then the gear and the rest of the flaps. The old-timers taught me to carry
> an extra 20 knots into the flare when doing an idle-thrust landing. That
> prevents you from developing an excessive sink-rate which prevents the
gear
> from going through the wing.
>
> I bled off the extra airspeed and more in the flare. The touchdown was
> sweet. There was just a hint of a bunny-hop before the ground-spoilers
> popped, but the runway is so bumpy that the passengers probably didn't
> notice. Without moving the throttles from idle, I popped the reversers and
> let it roll to the end of the runway. We rolled onto the taxiway without
> using the brakes. It was a perfect idle-thrust approach from
top-of-descent
> to the gate.
>
> I spent the rest of the day sitting with my crew at a bar on the beach
> enjoying the little things in life. Over the bar was a television. The
folks
> on the television were surrounded by snow. I bet their day wasn't near as
> perfect as mine.
>
> D.
>
>

[mindenpilot]

That was a cool story, Capt. Doug.
I'm just a 100 hour VFR pleasure-flyer, and I know absolutely nothing about
jets and such.
So, please continue to post this kind of cool stuff!
I find it very interesting!

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III

[Peter MacPherson]

Great story. Must be a really cool feeling going from FL330
to touchdown at idle thrust. The company was also happy
with the fuel savings..... ; )



"Capt.Doug" > wrote in message
...
> It was a beautiful day in land that Mickey built- 76 degrees with full sun
> while the northern folks got their first freezing blast of winter. We
> headed
> off-shore over the islands of the Caribbean. I was on the second radio
> talking to old friends and catching up on news from all the islands that I
> don't get to visit much anymore. Caught up with some old friends on the
> air-to-air frequencies as well. The flight levels were smooth and the
> visibilty was excellent.
>
> Then it came time for top of descent. This time was going to be sweet.
> There
> was no complicated arrival procedure and there was no traffic in front of
> us. We were number one. The center controller cleared us to decend from
> FL330 to 11,000' at pilot's discretion.
>
> One of the keys to good fuel economy in a jet is to stay high as long as
> you
> can and then descend at idle thrust. I looked at our weight, and tailwind.
> As I slowly pulled the throttles back to idle, the nose slowly dropped to
> maintain airspeed. I switched from Mach airspeed to indicated airspeed
> around FL240. I monitored the DME's ratio to the altimeter. It was holding
> constant. I leveled off at 11,000' and let the airspeed bleed off to 250
> KIAS. We switched to the approach controller who cleared us down to 3000'
> and direct to the outer marker. The power was still at idle, the
> speedbreaks
> were still stowed, and the approach was looking good.
>
> I called the field in sight from 20 miles out and was cleared for the
> visual. I pulled the nose up slightly to bleed the speed down to 200 KIAS
> for the airport traffic area. At 1500' the slats and flaps were extended.
> Then the gear and the rest of the flaps. The old-timers taught me to carry
> an extra 20 knots into the flare when doing an idle-thrust landing. That
> prevents you from developing an excessive sink-rate which prevents the
> gear
> from going through the wing.
>
> I bled off the extra airspeed and more in the flare. The touchdown was
> sweet. There was just a hint of a bunny-hop before the ground-spoilers
> popped, but the runway is so bumpy that the passengers probably didn't
> notice. Without moving the throttles from idle, I popped the reversers and
> let it roll to the end of the runway. We rolled onto the taxiway without
> using the brakes. It was a perfect idle-thrust approach from
> top-of-descent
> to the gate.
>
> I spent the rest of the day sitting with my crew at a bar on the beach
> enjoying the little things in life. Over the bar was a television. The
> folks
> on the television were surrounded by snow. I bet their day wasn't near as
> perfect as mine.
>
> D.
>
>

[Maule Driver]

That was sweet! I'd buy the good Captain a round for that one.

Thanks for the bump -- I missed it the first time around.

"Peter MacPherson" > wrote in message
news:Vc2sd.137670$5K2.43770@attbi_s03...
> Great story. Must be a really cool feeling going from FL330
> to touchdown at idle thrust. The company was also happy
> with the fuel savings..... ; )
>
>
>
> "Capt.Doug" > wrote in message
> ...
> > It was a beautiful day in land that Mickey built- 76 degrees with full
sun
> > while the northern folks got their first freezing blast of winter. We
> > headed
> > off-shore over the islands of the Caribbean. I was on the second radio
> > talking to old friends and catching up on news from all the islands that
I
> > don't get to visit much anymore. Caught up with some old friends on the
> > air-to-air frequencies as well. The flight levels were smooth and the
> > visibilty was excellent.
> >
> > Then it came time for top of descent. This time was going to be sweet.
> > There
> > was no complicated arrival procedure and there was no traffic in front
of
> > us. We were number one. The center controller cleared us to decend from
> > FL330 to 11,000' at pilot's discretion.
> >
> > One of the keys to good fuel economy in a jet is to stay high as long as
> > you
> > can and then descend at idle thrust. I looked at our weight, and
tailwind.
> > As I slowly pulled the throttles back to idle, the nose slowly dropped
to
> > maintain airspeed. I switched from Mach airspeed to indicated airspeed
> > around FL240. I monitored the DME's ratio to the altimeter. It was
holding
> > constant. I leveled off at 11,000' and let the airspeed bleed off to 250
> > KIAS. We switched to the approach controller who cleared us down to
3000'
> > and direct to the outer marker. The power was still at idle, the
> > speedbreaks
> > were still stowed, and the approach was looking good.
> >
> > I called the field in sight from 20 miles out and was cleared for the
> > visual. I pulled the nose up slightly to bleed the speed down to 200
KIAS
> > for the airport traffic area. At 1500' the slats and flaps were
extended.
> > Then the gear and the rest of the flaps. The old-timers taught me to
carry
> > an extra 20 knots into the flare when doing an idle-thrust landing. That
> > prevents you from developing an excessive sink-rate which prevents the
> > gear
> > from going through the wing.
> >
> > I bled off the extra airspeed and more in the flare. The touchdown was
> > sweet. There was just a hint of a bunny-hop before the ground-spoilers
> > popped, but the runway is so bumpy that the passengers probably didn't
> > notice. Without moving the throttles from idle, I popped the reversers
and
> > let it roll to the end of the runway. We rolled onto the taxiway without
> > using the brakes. It was a perfect idle-thrust approach from
> > top-of-descent
> > to the gate.
> >
> > I spent the rest of the day sitting with my crew at a bar on the beach
> > enjoying the little things in life. Over the bar was a television. The
> > folks
> > on the television were surrounded by snow. I bet their day wasn't near
as
> > perfect as mine.
> >
> > D.
> >
> >
>
>

[Friedrich Ostertag]

Hi NG,

question to the group:

Nice story, and obviously very skilled performance, but I always
thought jets were supposed to land with about 70-80% power on, to be
prepared for a potential go-around? (Because spool-up time from idle
would be prohibitive in that case?)

thanks,
Friedrich

> ...
>> It was a beautiful day in land that Mickey built- 76 degrees with
>> full sun while the northern folks got their first freezing blast of
>> winter. We headed
>> off-shore over the islands of the Caribbean. I was on the second
>> radio talking to old friends and catching up on news from all the
>> islands that I don't get to visit much anymore. Caught up with some
>> old friends on the air-to-air frequencies as well. The flight levels
>> were smooth and the visibilty was excellent.
>>
>> Then it came time for top of descent. This time was going to be
>> sweet. There
>> was no complicated arrival procedure and there was no traffic in
>> front of us. We were number one. The center controller cleared us to
>> decend from FL330 to 11,000' at pilot's discretion.
>>
>> One of the keys to good fuel economy in a jet is to stay high as
>> long as you
>> can and then descend at idle thrust. I looked at our weight, and
>> tailwind. As I slowly pulled the throttles back to idle, the nose
>> slowly dropped to maintain airspeed. I switched from Mach airspeed
>> to indicated airspeed around FL240. I monitored the DME's ratio to
>> the altimeter. It was holding constant. I leveled off at 11,000' and
>> let the airspeed bleed off to 250 KIAS. We switched to the approach
>> controller who cleared us down to 3000' and direct to the outer
>> marker. The power was still at idle, the speedbreaks
>> were still stowed, and the approach was looking good.
>>
>> I called the field in sight from 20 miles out and was cleared for
the
>> visual. I pulled the nose up slightly to bleed the speed down to 200
>> KIAS for the airport traffic area. At 1500' the slats and flaps were
>> extended. Then the gear and the rest of the flaps. The old-timers
>> taught me to carry an extra 20 knots into the flare when doing an
>> idle-thrust landing. That prevents you from developing an excessive
>> sink-rate which prevents the gear
>> from going through the wing.
>>
>> I bled off the extra airspeed and more in the flare. The touchdown
>> was sweet. There was just a hint of a bunny-hop before the
>> ground-spoilers popped, but the runway is so bumpy that the
>> passengers probably didn't notice. Without moving the throttles from
>> idle, I popped the reversers and let it roll to the end of the
>> runway. We rolled onto the taxiway without using the brakes. It was
>> a perfect idle-thrust approach from top-of-descent
>> to the gate.
>>
>> I spent the rest of the day sitting with my crew at a bar on the
>> beach enjoying the little things in life. Over the bar was a
>> television. The folks
>> on the television were surrounded by snow. I bet their day wasn't
>> near as perfect as mine.
>>
>> D.

--
for personal email please remove "entfernen" from my adress

[Capt.Doug]

>"Friedrich Ostertag" wrote in message >I always
> thought jets were supposed to land with about 70-80% power on, to be
> prepared for a potential go-around? (Because spool-up time from idle
> would be prohibitive in that case?)

Perhaps you are confusing RPM with thrust? The correlation is not linear.
Normally the RPM is between 70% to 80% on approach, but the thrust around
20% to 25%. You are correct that normally the engines are somewhat spooled
up to provide adequate acceleration if needed. Hence the reason I carried an
extra 20 knots of airspeed into the flare when using idle thrust.

D.

[Friedrich Ostertag]

Hi Doug,

>> "Friedrich Ostertag" wrote in message >I always
>> thought jets were supposed to land with about 70-80% power on, to be
>> prepared for a potential go-around? (Because spool-up time from idle
>> would be prohibitive in that case?)
>
> Perhaps you are confusing RPM with thrust?

seems to be the case, as far as the figures are concerned.

> The correlation is not
> linear. Normally the RPM is between 70% to 80% on approach, but the
> thrust around 20% to 25%. You are correct that normally the engines
> are somewhat spooled up to provide adequate acceleration if needed.
> Hence the reason I carried an extra 20 knots of airspeed into the
> flare when using idle thrust.

thanks for the explanation!

regards,
Friedrich

--
for personal email please remove "entfernen" from my adress