can you tell if a plane's iced up by looking at it?

[Tune2828]

hi - lurker here, but reading my local tv new's site and this seems like an odd
statement from an eyewitness, i believe the correct term is "notoriously
unreliable" eyewitness

key phrase:

"The one wing that was still there was iced up pretty heavy," said Doug
Percival, who was driving by at the time of the crash and one of the first
people to get to the burning plane.

can you actually tell if a wing is iced up from driving by a moving aircraft? i
have my 40 hours of instrument, (no ticket yet), but would be curious to know
if you could tell outside of the cockpit - plus maybe it wasn't deiced because
the plane was hangared.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
GRAND JUNCTION - The jet that crashed Sunday with NBC executive Dick Ebersol
aboard, wasn't de-iced before taking off.

9NEWS mountain newsroom reporter Matt Renoux updates the story. 9NEWS at noon.
November 29, 2004.

MTJ Air Services, the company that handles de-icing services at the airport,
did de-ice a commercial jet that took off shortly before the charter plane that
Ebersol and two of his three sons were aboard. The company says that the pilot
flying Ebersol's plane declined de-icing services.

The CL-602 Challenger crashed Sunday morning as it was attempting to take off
from Montrose Regional Airport. The plane never left the ground. Instead, it
slipped off the runway, hurtled across a road and burst into flames as it
ploughed across a field.

"The one wing that was still there was iced up pretty heavy," said Doug
Percival, who was driving by at the time of the crash and one of the first
people to get to the burning plane.

The National Transportation Safety Board is just beginning its investigation
into the crash. Some NTSB members are already in Montrose and will hold their
first briefing Monday evening. More experts from around the country are on
their way. The investigative team will include the engineers who helped build
the plane's engine, to see whether there was a mechanical failure.

Ebersol and his older son Charles survived the crash and are being treated at
St. Mary's Hospital in Grand Junction. Fourteen-year-old Edward "Teddy" Ebersol
is still missing and presumed dead. NTSB investigators haven't been able to
closely examine the wreckage yet.

There were three crewmembers on board the plane. Jet Alliance, the company that
owns the aircraft, confirms that the pilot, Captain Luis Palanco Espaillat, 50,
and a cabin attendant, Warren T. Richardson III, 36, were killed. A co-pilot,
whose name hasn't been released, is being treated at Montrose Hospital.

Jet Alliance says Palanco Espaillat was a 20-year veteran with over 12,000
hours total flying time and over 900 hours in Challenger aircraft.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, (Tune2828) said:
>key phrase:
>
>"The one wing that was still there was iced up pretty heavy," said Doug
>Percival, who was driving by at the time of the crash and one of the first
>people to get to the burning plane.
>
>can you actually tell if a wing is iced up from driving by a moving aircraft? i

It says he was "one of the first people to get to the burning plane".
That indicates to me that neither he nor the plane was moving.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"AOL would be a giant diesel-smoking bus with hundreds of ebola victims on
board throwing dead wombats and rotten cabbage at the other cars"
- a.s.r throws the Information Superhighway metaphor into reverse.

[PJ Hunt]

"Tune2828" <tune2828@> wrote

> can you actually tell if a wing is iced up from driving by a moving
aircraft?

Re-read the article. He wasn't driving by and it wasn't a moving aircraft.
It had crashed and he was one of the first people to arrive at the burning
plane.

Ice, in all it's various forms, is certainly noticeable. The hardest to see
would be 'clear ice', but even that is noticeable. I suggest you discuss
this phenomenon further with your Instrument Instructor.

PJ

============================================
Here's to the duck who swam a lake and never lost a feather,
May sometime another year, we all be back together.
JJW
============================================

[G.R. Patterson III]

Tune2828 wrote:
>
> "The one wing that was still there was iced up pretty heavy," said Doug
> Percival, who was driving by at the time of the crash and one of the first
> people to get to the burning plane.
>
> can you actually tell if a wing is iced up from driving by a moving aircraft?

You might, but according to the phrase you quoted, Mr. Percival wasn't driving
by a moving aircraft. He had arrived at the crash and was looking at what was
left of the plane.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

[Marco Leon]

Remember it was snowing. By the time he got to the plane, there was probably
a coating of snow on the remaining airframe. Hence the "iced up pretty
heavy" determination.

Marco


"Tune2828" > wrote in message
...
> hi - lurker here, but reading my local tv new's site and this seems like
an odd
> statement from an eyewitness, i believe the correct term is "notoriously
> unreliable" eyewitness
>
> key phrase:
>
> "The one wing that was still there was iced up pretty heavy," said Doug
> Percival, who was driving by at the time of the crash and one of the first
> people to get to the burning plane.
>
> can you actually tell if a wing is iced up from driving by a moving
aircraft? i
> have my 40 hours of instrument, (no ticket yet), but would be curious to
know
> if you could tell outside of the cockpit - plus maybe it wasn't deiced
because
> the plane was hangared.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> GRAND JUNCTION - The jet that crashed Sunday with NBC executive Dick
Ebersol
> aboard, wasn't de-iced before taking off.
>
> 9NEWS mountain newsroom reporter Matt Renoux updates the story. 9NEWS at
noon.
> November 29, 2004.
>
> MTJ Air Services, the company that handles de-icing services at the
airport,
> did de-ice a commercial jet that took off shortly before the charter plane
that
> Ebersol and two of his three sons were aboard. The company says that the
pilot
> flying Ebersol's plane declined de-icing services.
>
> The CL-602 Challenger crashed Sunday morning as it was attempting to take
off
> from Montrose Regional Airport. The plane never left the ground. Instead,
it
> slipped off the runway, hurtled across a road and burst into flames as it
> ploughed across a field.
>
> "The one wing that was still there was iced up pretty heavy," said Doug
> Percival, who was driving by at the time of the crash and one of the first
> people to get to the burning plane.
>
> The National Transportation Safety Board is just beginning its
investigation
> into the crash. Some NTSB members are already in Montrose and will hold
their
> first briefing Monday evening. More experts from around the country are on
> their way. The investigative team will include the engineers who helped
build
> the plane's engine, to see whether there was a mechanical failure.
>
> Ebersol and his older son Charles survived the crash and are being treated
at
> St. Mary's Hospital in Grand Junction. Fourteen-year-old Edward "Teddy"
Ebersol
> is still missing and presumed dead. NTSB investigators haven't been able
to
> closely examine the wreckage yet.
>
> There were three crewmembers on board the plane. Jet Alliance, the company
that
> owns the aircraft, confirms that the pilot, Captain Luis Palanco
Espaillat, 50,
> and a cabin attendant, Warren T. Richardson III, 36, were killed. A
co-pilot,
> whose name hasn't been released, is being treated at Montrose Hospital.
>
> Jet Alliance says Palanco Espaillat was a 20-year veteran with over 12,000
> hours total flying time and over 900 hours in Challenger aircraft.
>
>

[C Kingsbury]

"Tune2828" > wrote in message
...
> hi - lurker here, but reading my local tv new's site and this seems like
an odd
> statement from an eyewitness, i believe the correct term is "notoriously
> unreliable" eyewitness

I don't trust a damn thing any eyewitness says about an airplane crash
unless they're a pilot with relevant experience, and even then I'm
skeptical. I'm an instrument pilot and have no idea what constitutes
significant ice to a Challenger, even less so what that would actually look
like. Odds are your local TV news knows less about this than you do.

-cwk.

[Cub Driver]

On 30 Nov 2004 00:42:35 GMT, (Tune2828)
wrote:

>"The one wing that was still there was iced up pretty heavy," said Doug
>Percival, who was driving by at the time of the crash and one of the first
>people to get to the burning plane.
>
>can you actually tell if a wing is iced up from driving by a moving aircraft?

Probably not, but note that he was driving by at the time of the
crash. He then went to the plane. I assume he's talking about what he
saw when he was a few feet away from the wing.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
the blog www.danford.net

[G.R. Patterson III]

Marco Leon wrote:
>
> Remember it was snowing. By the time he got to the plane, there was probably
> a coating of snow on the remaining airframe.

If it were snowing that heavily, nobody would be flying.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

[Bill Denton]

If Dick Ebersol were in the back and wanted to go somewhere right then, and
the pilot valued his job, he would try to take off with a bulldozer on each
wing.

He wouldn't be the first pilot to let somebody rich and powerful persuade
him to ignore on judgment.

I believe it's called: "getthereitis".




"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Marco Leon wrote:
> >
> > Remember it was snowing. By the time he got to the plane, there was
probably
> > a coating of snow on the remaining airframe.
>
> If it were snowing that heavily, nobody would be flying.
>
> George Patterson
> If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to
have
> been looking for it.