W&B info for PA-12 Super Cruiser

[Robert M. Gary]

It looks like I'm probably going to be able to give instruction in a
PA-12 that recently went on-line at a nearby FBO. It sounds like more
fun that just working with private applicants. :)
Looking over the paper work, I can't find any CG range or loading
limitations for the aircraft. We have the POH (really more of an
owner's manual) and the A&P has done an excellent job of detailing all
the W&B changes, but I just don't have anything that tells me what the
valid envelop is. It doesn't appear anywhere in the owner's manual. I
know some older planes have loading limitations instead but I'm not
seeing that either. The other CFI didn't seem to haqve ever really
look at it.
Is this something we can get from the FAA somewhere? Is it possible
that the CAA didn't require a CG envelop back then?

-Robert, CFI (tailwheel and sea planes !!)

[[email protected]]

On 5 Dec 2004 17:54:24 -0800, (Robert M. Gary) wrote:

>It looks like I'm probably going to be able to give instruction in a
>PA-12 that recently went on-line at a nearby FBO. It sounds like more
>fun that just working with private applicants. :)
>Looking over the paper work, I can't find any CG range or loading
>limitations for the aircraft. We have the POH (really more of an
>owner's manual) and the A&P has done an excellent job of detailing all
>the W&B changes, but I just don't have anything that tells me what the
>valid envelop is. It doesn't appear anywhere in the owner's manual. I
>know some older planes have loading limitations instead but I'm not
>seeing that either. The other CFI didn't seem to haqve ever really
>look at it.
>Is this something we can get from the FAA somewhere? Is it possible
>that the CAA didn't require a CG envelop back then?
>
>-Robert, CFI (tailwheel and sea planes !!)

http://makeashorterlink.com/?W5E4143F9

or

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgMakeModel.nsf/0/F4CD515CC49985D686256A61006C7A22?OpenDocument

C. G. Range: (+9.0) to (+18.6)

Empty Weight
C.G. Range: (+9.5) to (+13.3)

When empty weight C.G. falls within this
range, computation of critical fore and aft
C.G. positions is unnecessary. Range is not
valid for non-standard arrangements.

Maximum Weight: Normal Category: 1750 lbs.
Utility Category: 1500 lbs.

Number of Seats: 3 (One at +6 and two at +34)

Only one person permitted in rear seat when
operating in Utility Category.

Maximum Baggage: 41 lbs. (+56)

TC

[Jim Burns]

Robert,
I see TC probably answered your question, but you may want to check out
SuperCubs.Org for a wealth of info on PA-18s and 12s. Lots of very
experienced guys and girls over there.

Jim

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
om...
> It looks like I'm probably going to be able to give instruction in a
> PA-12 that recently went on-line at a nearby FBO. It sounds like more
> fun that just working with private applicants. :)
> Looking over the paper work, I can't find any CG range or loading
> limitations for the aircraft. We have the POH (really more of an
> owner's manual) and the A&P has done an excellent job of detailing all
> the W&B changes, but I just don't have anything that tells me what the
> valid envelop is. It doesn't appear anywhere in the owner's manual. I
> know some older planes have loading limitations instead but I'm not
> seeing that either. The other CFI didn't seem to haqve ever really
> look at it.
> Is this something we can get from the FAA somewhere? Is it possible
> that the CAA didn't require a CG envelop back then?
>
> -Robert, CFI (tailwheel and sea planes !!)


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[Robert M. Gary]

> http://makeashorterlink.com/?W5E4143F9
>
> or
>
>
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgMakeModel.nsf/0/F4CD515CC49985D686256A61006C7A22?OpenDocument>
> TC

Awesome! Thank's TC!
-Robert

[[email protected]]

On 6 Dec 2004 09:00:46 -0800, "Robert M. Gary" >
wrote:

>> http://makeashorterlink.com/?W5E4143F9
>>
>> or
>>
>>
>http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgMakeModel.nsf/0/F4CD515CC49985D686256A61006C7A22?OpenDocument>
>> TC
>
>Awesome! Thank's TC!
>-Robert

My pleasure.

7-29-95 PA-12 N***** LCL "T.O.'S & LANDINGS OVER OBSTRUCTIONS
GRASS/SHORT FIELD" 4 LDG .7 HRS SEL

Headed up to a 2200 foot turf strip at 7:00 am on a Saturday to help a
friend get his Brave running (single-drive dual-magneto=bad juju).

Had the points & condensors changed and the mag reinstalled & timed &
smoke-tested by 9:00 or so.

Friend's father wants to know if I wanna go for a spin in the Super
Cruiser (he bought it nearly new, second owner). So we drag the Brave
out of the way, manhandle the Ag-Cat out of the hangar, shove the
Pawnee out in the grass and get the PA-12 out.

Wires on both ends of the north/south strip, but plenty of nice grass
in the middle.

Fresh engine (less than 50 hours), prop needed re-pitched, had to pull
the throttle back about 3/4" after TO to keep the rpms out of the red.

Had an absolute blast, took me all the way from 22.8 to 23.2 hrs SEL.

Allegedly went back in and out of there about three years later in a
Navajo Chieftain, never got in the habit of logging twin time, so
can't look it up fer sure...

Regards;

TC

[[email protected]]

The TCDS for the aircraft type is well worth downloading from
www.faa.gov.
It will have an assortment of useful stuff, including the W&B info
someone
else posted. Go to http://www.faa.gov/certification/aircraft/index.htm
and then
click on "Type Certificate Data Sheets" on the left margin.

One rather interesting thing I noticed on the PA-12 one (A-780) is that
the
never exceed speed is lower for normal category than utility category.
(I've
never seen that before.)

I grab a copy of the TCDS for each type I fly. Useful for dispelling
myths, if
nothing else, rick

[Robert M. Gary]

Our PA-12 has a 150hp engine. It doesn't have any problem getting out
of anything! :)