origins of cutting the shirt after solo

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There have been many stories told about the practice of cutting the
shirt of the freshly soloed pilot. None of them made any sense to me,
so, after once again reading of the 'tradition' on another list, I
asked the one person that I knew who had made a long career of flying
and flight instructing, the chief instructor at my college aero program
(the late and lamented Bates Aeronautical Foundation at Harvey Mudd
College), Iris Critchell. Iris' first lessons were in a Cub circa 1939,
was the first woman to complete the civil pilot training program at
USC, has some great first-person stories about piloting P-51 Mustangs
during WWII and was inducted into the flight instructor hall of fame in
2000. She also still flies and instructs.

http://csmonitor.com/cgi-bin/durableRedirect.pl?/durable/2001/06/20/p17s1.htm

I quote Mrs. C's answer, with permission:

"This shirt tail cut off business.
Someone in the late 70's peak of flight school business (or early 80's)
thought that up and it caught on across the country simply as something
to do to amuse the customer. Pin the shirt tail up in the flight
school office and every one signed it!

It had no place in the flight training of earlier years. It was not
started "back when". When I was in my first CPTP course, when the USC
group who flew with the instructor had got their licenses, they knew he
liked Johnny Walker Black label and got him a bottle! I never came
across that idea again. At most your instructor wrote something in the
remarks section of your log book when you soloed. No, it was not a
regular custom in earlier years! ...

None of my contemporaries nor I had any shirt tails cut off when we
soloed or got licenses. That was before and during the Civil Pilot
Training Program 1938-39 and on. When I taught on the CPTP program
in 41-42 no shirt tails were cut off around us.

It was too close to the years of the depression and people could not
afford to go around destroying people's perfectly good shirts! "

....and that is definitive as far as I am concerned! Evidence to the
contrary should be more than hearsay.
cheers,
-Greg
solo in '74, shirt remains intact

[mhquay]

wrote:
> *There have been many stories told about the practice of cutting the
> shirt of the freshly soloed pilot. None of them made any sense to
> me,
> so, after once again reading of the 'tradition' on another list, I
> asked the one person that I knew who had made a long career of
> flying
> and flight instructing, the chief instructor at my college aero
> program
> (the late and lamented Bates Aeronautical Foundation at Harvey Mudd
> College), Iris Critchell. Iris' first lessons were in a Cub circa
> 1939,
> was the first woman to complete the civil pilot training program at
> USC, has some great first-person stories about piloting P-51
> Mustangs
> during WWII and was inducted into the flight instructor hall of fame
> in
> 2000. She also still flies and instructs.
>
>
> http://csmonitor.com/cgi-bin/durableRedirect.pl?/durable/2001/06/20/p17s1.htm
>
> I quote Mrs. C's answer, with permission:
>
> "This shirt tail cut off business.
> Someone in the late 70's peak of flight school business (or early
> 80's)
> thought that up and it caught on across the country simply as
> something
> to do to amuse the customer. Pin the shirt tail up in the flight
> school office and every one signed it!
>
> It had no place in the flight training of earlier years. It was not
> started "back when". When I was in my first CPTP course, when the
> USC
> group who flew with the instructor had got their licenses, they knew
> he
> liked Johnny Walker Black label and got him a bottle! I never came
> across that idea again. At most your instructor wrote something in
> the
> remarks section of your log book when you soloed. No, it was not a
> regular custom in earlier years! ...
>
> None of my contemporaries nor I had any shirt tails cut off when we
> soloed or got licenses. That was before and during the Civil Pilot
> Training Program 1938-39 and on. When I taught on the CPTP
> program
> in 41-42 no shirt tails were cut off around us.
>
> It was too close to the years of the depression and people could not
> afford to go around destroying people's perfectly good shirts! "
>
> ....and that is definitive as far as I am concerned! Evidence to the
> contrary should be more than hearsay.
> cheers,
> -Greg
> solo in '74, shirt remains intact *


I prefer either of these two explanations I found on the web courtesy
of http://whitts.alioth.net/Page5History.htm

Shirt Tails.
There has been a long tradition in aviation related to cutting off the
shirt tails of newly soloed student pilots. One story has it that the
practice began because of the student need to clean his goggles.

Pilots had scarves to use in keeping their goggles clean but the
student had to use a shirt tail. The cutting of the shirt tail was
giving the student the symbolic scarf of a pilot.

At one time trainers were two place tandem seat airplanes. The
instructor sat in the back seat. Some trainers had a speaking tube that
worked so that you could hear

It was noisy in the airplane and the instructors learned that the way
to get the students attention and direct him was to reach under the
panel and yank on a shirttail!

At student solo, the removal of the shirt tail, eliminated the way the
instructor used for directing the student. The student was now a pilot
and didn't need the jerking on a shirttail to fly.

Phil


--
mhquay
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted via OziPilots Online [ http://www.OziPilotsOnline.com.au ]
- A website for Australian Pilots regardless of when, why, or what they fly -

[mhquay]

wrote:
> *There have been many stories told about the practice of cutting the
> shirt of the freshly soloed pilot. None of them made any sense to
> me,
> so, after once again reading of the 'tradition' on another list, I
> asked the one person that I knew who had made a long career of
> flying
> and flight instructing, the chief instructor at my college aero
> program
> (the late and lamented Bates Aeronautical Foundation at Harvey Mudd
> College), Iris Critchell. Iris' first lessons were in a Cub circa
> 1939,
> was the first woman to complete the civil pilot training program at
> USC, has some great first-person stories about piloting P-51
> Mustangs
> during WWII and was inducted into the flight instructor hall of fame
> in
> 2000. She also still flies and instructs.
>
>
> http://csmonitor.com/cgi-bin/durableRedirect.pl?/durable/2001/06/20/p17s1.htm
>
> I quote Mrs. C's answer, with permission:
>
> "This shirt tail cut off business.
> Someone in the late 70's peak of flight school business (or early
> 80's)
> thought that up and it caught on across the country simply as
> something
> to do to amuse the customer. Pin the shirt tail up in the flight
> school office and every one signed it!
>
> It had no place in the flight training of earlier years. It was not
> started "back when". When I was in my first CPTP course, when the
> USC
> group who flew with the instructor had got their licenses, they knew
> he
> liked Johnny Walker Black label and got him a bottle! I never came
> across that idea again. At most your instructor wrote something in
> the
> remarks section of your log book when you soloed. No, it was not a
> regular custom in earlier years! ...
>
> None of my contemporaries nor I had any shirt tails cut off when we
> soloed or got licenses. That was before and during the Civil Pilot
> Training Program 1938-39 and on. When I taught on the CPTP
> program
> in 41-42 no shirt tails were cut off around us.
>
> It was too close to the years of the depression and people could not
> afford to go around destroying people's perfectly good shirts! "
>
> ....and that is definitive as far as I am concerned! Evidence to the
> contrary should be more than hearsay.
> cheers,
> -Greg
> solo in '74, shirt remains intact *


I prefer either of these two explanations I found on the web courtesy
of http://whitts.alioth.net/Page5History.htm

Shirt Tails.
There has been a long tradition in aviation related to cutting off the
shirt tails of newly soloed student pilots. One story has it that the
practice began because of the student need to clean his goggles.

Pilots had scarves to use in keeping their goggles clean but the
student had to use a shirt tail. The cutting of the shirt tail was
giving the student the symbolic scarf of a pilot.

At one time trainers were two place tandem seat airplanes. The
instructor sat in the back seat. Some trainers had a speaking tube that
worked so that you could hear

It was noisy in the airplane and the instructors learned that the way
to get the students attention and direct him was to reach under the
panel and yank on a shirttail!

At student solo, the removal of the shirt tail, eliminated the way the
instructor used for directing the student. The student was now a pilot
and didn't need the jerking on a shirttail to fly.

Phil


--
mhquay
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted via OziPilots Online [ http://www.OziPilotsOnline.com.au ]
- A website for Australian Pilots regardless of when, why, or what they fly -

[C J Campbell]

"mhquay" > wrote in message
...
>
> Shirt Tails.
> There has been a long tradition in aviation related to cutting off the
> shirt tails of newly soloed student pilots. One story has it that the
> practice began because of the student need to clean his goggles.
>
> Pilots had scarves to use in keeping their goggles clean but the
> student had to use a shirt tail. The cutting of the shirt tail was
> giving the student the symbolic scarf of a pilot.
>
> At one time trainers were two place tandem seat airplanes. The
> instructor sat in the back seat. Some trainers had a speaking tube that
> worked so that you could hear
>
> It was noisy in the airplane and the instructors learned that the way
> to get the students attention and direct him was to reach under the
> panel and yank on a shirttail!
>
> At student solo, the removal of the shirt tail, eliminated the way the
> instructor used for directing the student. The student was now a pilot
> and didn't need the jerking on a shirttail to fly.

Both of these stories are amusing, but unlikely. If there is an older origin
for the tradition, it is in medieval knights winning their spurs and
'shavetail' lieutenants in the army. If that evolved in the 1970's to
cutting off shirt tails, then so be it. I doubt if this is the first time
the tradition appeared. I have read that cutting off the shirt tail was
something that cavalry officers did on receiving their commission.

[vincent p. norris]

It was the custom at NAS Pensacola circa 1949 to cut off the tie of a
cadet who had soloed. He could proudly wear that severed tie for the
remainder of the day.

When that custom started, I don't know.

vince norris

[Morgans]

"mhquay" > wrote

>
> At one time trainers were two place tandem seat airplanes. The
> instructor sat in the back seat. Some trainers had a speaking tube that
> worked so that you could hear
>
> It was noisy in the airplane and the instructors learned that the way
> to get the students attention and direct him was to reach under the
> panel and yank on a shirttail!
>
> At student solo, the removal of the shirt tail, eliminated the way the
> instructor used for directing the student. The student was now a pilot
> and didn't need the jerking on a shirttail to fly.
>
> Phil

I like the sounds of that one the best. YMMV
--
Jim in NC

[C J Campbell]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> There have been many stories told about the practice of cutting the
> shirt of the freshly soloed pilot. None of them made any sense to me

They don't make any sense because they don't have to. Mrs. C is partly
right, but the tradition (in various forms) pre-dates airplanes. Always some
hokey story is made up to go along with the tradition. You get right down to
it, it is really a descendent of knights winning their spurs or getting
clapped on the shoulder, or in more modern times, the fifty mission crush or
ripping the knife pocket off the flight suit.

Cavalry officers sometimes used get their shirt tails cut when they received
their commissions (usually accompanied by some story about saddle sores or
something). Many of the earliest military aviators came from the cavalry.
So, you get some flight school that wants a relatively harmless form of
hazing its graduates, someone remembers what Granddad used to do in the
cavalry, and there you have it. Or they decided to follow some other ancient
military tradition, such as cutting off ties, but nobody wears ties, so....
The story is an afterthought. I have had students go out and buy a shirt
especially to solo in, and our school does not even follow that tradition.
The student invariably heard about somewhere else.

[Bob Moore]

"C J Campbell" wrote

> I have had students go out and buy a shirt especially to
> solo in,

Some of my students, particularly the females would show
up with a T-shirt that had been customized at the local
air-brush shop especially for the occasion. There was
some pretty good aviation art hanging on the FBO wall.

Bob Moore